It's funny how you guys are ignoring facts, studies ... so science iin general.deliberately causing a zone of residual thermal damage(RTD) in the dermis extending down into the upperto
mid reticular dermis. This RTD zone was deemed
essential to kick-start the wound healing process,
including angiogenesis and collagenesis, followed by
tissue remodelling, to produce a tight, well oriented
superficial dermis under a new, fresh young
epidermis. Results with this approach were excellent,
I also think, that you did not get the idea behind this treatment.
And if you believe in Fraxel, than all you read about it was the theory, and you totally ignored the rather disappointing results. Actually, Fraxel can also be used in the described treatment. Instead of using the CO2 laser to create the (so called) RTD, Fraxel (two wavelengths) is used to initiate the "kick-start", by causing no or less thermal damage to the dermis.
You can think, I just wanna attack you - that's not true, believe me. But this
CO2 and erbium lasers are old and largely useless methods.... is total bullshit. Actually, that is exactly how Fraxel laser manufacturers brochures start with 'CO2 and erbium lasers are old and largely useless methods. But with our new breakthrough super duper bling bling shiny pulsing light .......'
CO2 lasers are used for surgery. There is no other laser, powerful enough and suitable for this.
But I give you a real fact: The current Fraxel systems give you NO IMPROVEMENT AT ALL on any type of scar.
And by the way, please tell me about those three skin layers (ROFL), I am keen to hear from your tremendous medical knowledge. Next time, first you should -at least- go to wikipedia before.
My dad always told me: Think first, then talk ! 🙂
wtf ?? You don't even know that scars reach into the dermis and blame him for telling the truth ?
There are three skin layers. If you had gone to wikipedia yourself you would know...
btw. I agree with you about Fraxel
It's funny how you guys are ignoring facts, studies ... so science iin general.deliberately causing a zone of residual thermal damage(RTD) in the dermis extending down into the upperto
mid reticular dermis. This RTD zone was deemed
essential to sskick-startsssz the wound healing process,
including angiogenesis and collagenesis, followed by
tissue remodelling, to produce a tight, well oriented
superficial dermis under a new, fresh ssyoungsss
z
epidermis. Results with this approach were excellent,
I also think, that you did not get the idea behind this treatment.
And if you believe in Fraxel, than all you read about it was the theory, and you totally ignored the rather disappointing results. Actually, Fraxel can also be used in the described treatment. Instead of using the CO2 laser to create the (so called) RTD, Fraxel (two wavelengths) is used to initiate the "kick-start", by causing no or less thermal damage to the dermis.
You can think, I just wanna attack you - that's not true, believe me. But this
CO2 and erbium lasers are old and largely useless methods.... is total bullshit. Actually, that is exactly how Fraxel laser manufacturers brochures start with 'CO2 and erbium lasers are old and largely useless methods. But with our new breakthrough super duper bling bling shiny pulsing light .......'
CO2 lasers are used for surgery. There is no other laser, powerful enough and suitable for this.
But I give you a real fact: The current Fraxel systems give you NO IMPROVEMENT AT ALL on any type of scar.
And by the way, please tell me about those three skin layers (ROFL), I am keen to hear from your tremendous medical knowledge. Next time, first you should -at least- go to wikipedia before.
My dad always told me: Think first, then talk ! 🙂
Can you please cool it a bit? I am really not your enemy.
I have spent years reading scientific medical literature (I have institutional access through my work). Try to realize that just because something is published in a peer reviewed journal doesn't mean all that much.. it definitely does not mean it's an indisputable fact for the likes of you to use bashing each other on the head on some web forum. I you really think that, then you just don't understand scientific process.
If it offends you that I prefer to not use medical terms or language on a public forum, then I'm so sorry. I'm not here to impress you or anyone else with my knowledge of medical vocabulary, nor do I care about earning anyones respect in some imaginary male pubescent pissing contest. I find it more important to express myself in a way that is accessible to everyone. What was it exactly you had a problem with? Me not using the Latin names of skin layers? Kind of irrelevant, don't ya think.
For scaring to occur the injury must lie deeper then the epidermis, otherwise removing the epidermis would scar you horribly, don't you think? Or maybe your dad isn't here? I have done non fractional CO2 myself, a couple of years ago, then it was "in fashion". It did absolutely nothing for my scars. However it took close to a year and finally the use of DMSO (a non fda approved substance) for the erythema to completely subside. And it left me with a couple of new scars and slight hyperpigmentation. CO2 is apparently great for anti aging and wrinkles, not for scaring. For something to work that great for scaring, the scar tissue has to be removed (you are right about that). But CO2 just doesn't do that!
I do not advocate for fraxel. Nor do I advocate for any laser or any method that completely removes the epidermis at all. There has been discussion in academic literature whether dermal papillae regenerates completely or gets permanently damaged, which along with some other unpleasant longterm side effects might make the skin look unnatural. But you of course knew that, throwing around "scientific qoutes" and all. I do however know from discussing this with several doctors who work with this and have used all of the different lasers, that the "thermal effect" with CO2 is minute and temporary, and absent with the use of erbium lasers. I also know that fraxel, by reaching deeper than CO2 has better odds of hitting were it actually might do some good, while still keeping the epidermis undamaged. Other than that I believe them both to be pretty much useless.
The emphasis on what I wrote earlier was on if you're hell bent on using lasers, which you obviously are.
I was trying to save you pain and money.. But you are being such an arrogant unpleasant little prick everyone should just let you learn by your own mistakes, huh? You're obviously emotionally invested in this "being the cure", losing your grip like that. I'm not. I've been through that, years ago.
Can you people stop all your petty arguing. NO ONE CARES. This is what we want to know : 1) is there a treatment that will minimize boxcar, rolling and icepick acne scars at least 80-100 percent??? 2) If YES, then please direct us to a website or doctor we can contact for PROOF: i.e. non-manipulated (including different lighting) so we can contact said doctor for the treatment. I DO NOT GIVE A FLYING FUCK IF IT'S A LASER, A STEM CELL, A COMBINATION, VOODOO MAGIC OR SMEARING ELEPHANT DUNG ON MY FACE --so WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT ARGUING ABOUT THE SCIENC!!!??? None of you are doctors, most of the crap on the internet is speculative BS --just find the treatment, the doc, get it done and show us the results.
At the risk of being torn to pieces by Dagobert, here's my 7 week post Recell comparison. I have more photos in my own thread as well as full details of the procedure. I know this is not exactly like for like photos but as Ive explained in my other thread, it gives the most accurate portrayal of the improvement. If you want to see exact same lighting and positioning, visit my other thread.
Can you people stop all your petty arguing. NO ONE CARES. This is what we want to know : 1) is there a treatment that will minimize boxcar, rolling and icepick acne scars at least 80-100 percent??? 2) If YES, then please direct us to a website or doctor we can contact for PROOF: i.e. non-manipulated (including different lighting) so we can contact said doctor for the treatment. I DO NOT GIVE A FLYING FUCK IF IT'S A LASER, A STEM CELL, A COMBINATION, VOODOO MAGIC OR SMEARING ELEPHANT DUNG ON MY FACE --so WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT ARGUING ABOUT THE SCIENC!!!??? None of you are doctors, most of the crap on the internet is speculative BS --just find the treatment, the doc, get it done and show us the results.
i agree with this guy, being proactive and doing something about it makes 1000% difference then doing nothing, some of you have this strong belief that nothing can be done, which if you believe it will cripple you from taking action. I'm sure we'd be happy with any improvement. Oh yeah gbl i'm glad to see your scar has regained color, it looks better.
hello Dr bulgarian, my name is Gonzalo, I have 17 years. I suffer from acne scars. Your post cheered me up. The images that went up are very promising, showing a total restoration of damaged skin. I refer to the post of January 19, 2009, has been almost three years. I was wondering if you perform the procedure today, and if I could help, I suffer a deep depression, do not leave my house for several months. I have attempted suicide. My scars are recent (few months). Please I beg you help me somehow, I'm too youngand I feel that my life was over. The images show a totalrestoration, I was wondering if you can eliminate my scarscompletely. Perhaps it can be achieved with stem cell therapy, repeating several times.
Please Help me I beg you in some way.
it would be nice if the before and after shots were in identical lighting
i do have more pics in my thread (link in sig)
its harder than you think to get identical pics when seasons /lighting changes plus i select to post the photos that give the truly most representative view of the scar.
What about skin printing? Or organ printing? Theres videos on youtube but im on a phone so i cant post. Also i read a artical that a heart injected with stem cells reduce scar tissue by 66%, im also lazy to get it too but you google stem cells and heart it should pop up. Unfortunatly the heart attack victims although theres reduced scar tissue, the heart is still limited and not very much improved fuction wise. But if they can reduce scar tissue in the heart im sure eventually they can do it with acne scars.
So i think all in all GBL you cot about 30 percent solid improvement. Which frankly is really good --I mean better than ANY laser has produced out there so far. I would strongly recommend you check out a new laser called LUMENIS SCAAR FX --i is apparently able to penetrate 4mm deeper than any other laser --just google it and you'll see all the press and it is specifically designed for scars deeper and more severe than acne scars. It might be the last thing you need -though I would certainly combine it with laviv, isolagans or recell. I think you should definitely do it. It might provide the other 40 to 50 percent improvement you eed.