.. Really? - What I hold against that is the doctor currently treating my skin problem. He told me the total opposite of what you've just said. Lasers DO WORK - "it is just a question on how much risk and pain you're willing to accept"; how much money and "how much time you're willing to invest". I got two hypertrophic scars on my cheeks and they're planning to remove them at the end of 2012, therefor a relatively long Isotretinoin therapy is required, to reduce the risk of postoperative inflammation (they say). So that's what I'm currently doing. Then (as people familiar with Isotretinoin might know), not earlier than 6 month after the therapy, the scars and so also the skin layers beneath it, in this case down to and INTO THE DERMIS, will be treated with a/(?some?) CO2 laser - he (the doctor, who is also a professor) said "..burn down to the dermis. Then stem cells (will) stream/ float up through the hair (hair) follicles to initiate and help perform the healing". 100% regeneration was promised to me. Possibly I'd then have to stay in hospital for around 4 weeks, the total regeneration would take up to 4 month (or even longer). --- Feel free to discuss this with me, because I am also uncertain; quite sceptical about what he said.

if we or anyone were actually able to regenerate skin which is what you'd need to fix boxcar and rolling scars that would be absolutely a revolution in medical science because then people with wrinkles and aging would get the treatment just to look younger and have fresh skin. He said it's not possible and will not be possible unless there is a true science fiction type revolution in biomedical science. He said all the stem cell stuff now and for the next few decades as far as he can see will just be marketing and product differentiation to gain profits. The science to do this does not exist.

the science is def heree..look at the treatments people are getting these days such as the face/leg transplants..there building organs/bodyparts..new treatments are coming out every year.. just look at the last 6 years we have gotten fractionated lasers, prp, laviv, ematrix, recell(hopefully soon) and stem cell fat grafts..the rate that new treatments are coming out is amazing..stem cells are def the way of the future and the future looks bright! lets try to stay positive!

But you know what - I am a little afraid of what happens when it's finally possible to regenerate (almost) everything. For sure the military would put their hands on it and ..... hm, tja, that's what I don't know.

im not scared that day will be a great day for the whole world.. especially the disabled and soldiers that have lost body parts but this is at least a decade away..but to fix scars and skin defects that will be in the next few years i think! i really think its going to be possible soon..maybe it will be the stem cell gun that will blast our scars away hahhaa

No, what I meant was, from the military's point of view, you don't want your "enemy" to gain access to such treatments - think about it.

oooooooooooo lol true.

But - to get back to the topic. Even better than whatever kind of stem cell treatment would be to find a way to somehow "teach" the body to heal scarless, like he does it with small (non severe) injuries.

But - to get back to the topic. Even better than whatever kind of stem cell treatment would be to find a way to somehow "teach" the body to heal scarless, like he does it with small (non severe) injuries.

Hey Dagobert, thanks for your response. Indeed I'm largely reporting what the doctor told me, he specializes with acne and scarring and he said, "we try, but you're a student and I don't want to take advantage of you, lasers will not give you the kind of improvement you're looking for, the best we can do is slightly minimize, but it wouldn't even be worth it." He said for ice-pick scars the best they have is tcl treatment which give you about 10 percent improvement. He actually said, even with the most aggressive modalities the best we can do is 5-10 percent "softening" of the scars.

Now let me tell you, I have real acne scarring --I mean the type you see in the pics on this website that are used to illustrate the different types of scars: i.e. icepick, rolling, boxcar scars, and even a few bumps on my nose. I would say that if 10 is the worst scarring you've seen, like tommy lee jones/danny trejo are probably at 8's on that scale I'm like 6 or 7.

If you have only two hypertrophic scars dagobert, maybe they can indeed laser those off. But I was in fact told that hypertrophic scars can be the most difficult to fix because the underlying structure of the dermis has changed along with the collagen formation so even if you do remove them completely the skin in that area has been programmed to grow back into that shape. Could you provide a close-up pic of your scars? What the derm told me was that for hypertrophic scars the best approach is electrical cauterization where they attempt to burn that area very strategically.

I too am skeptical of what your doctor said, but indeed they may have more advanced techniques in germany maybe. Or maybe your scars are closer to something like a mole removal since they're hypertrophic which yes, when removed do seem to produce pretty good results.

But I'm still skeptical --why on earth would you need to spend 4 weeks in the hospital!? Would he be doing multiple laser treatments during that time period or would that be for the recovery? I mean what kind of treatment would you be subjected to if you need to be in the hospital for 4 weeks? I don't mean to be disrespectful and I hope that something can be done, but it sounds very strange to me for two small scars on your face. And how much would that cost? Anyways, I appreciate your response and we should certainly discuss options more. I'm keen to hear of your progress.

But I will say to all of the above posts who believe treatments exist. Just show me the results. Show me one before and after photo that uses exactly the same lighting and shot-scale and angle and I will be hopeful. But no one has produced this yet. No one. THis is a major problem for thousands and thousands of people, so why on earth would it be so hard to find an honest result.

Dagobert, just ask your doctor to show you a before and after of someone with your problem and an honest after picture. Surely, someone he has ever treated had the same problem and treatment, if not, how can you trust what he is saying?

Sorry for the misunderstanding - I have two hypertrophic scars on my cheeks, but they are not small. So on your scale I am something between 6-9. Not because my whole faceskin is affected, it's because those two scars are pretty severe. (They result out of falsly treated (acne) inflammations.) That, and that I am suffering really a lot under this, is probably the reason, why he is looking forward to do this laser treatment. He said, it's going to be a tough job, because they will burn deeper (with the laser) than usual, the risk that complications occur is pretty high and because all this is so invasive, which will also be the reason, why I'd have to stay in hospital for 4 weeks then.

The doctor can for sure not show me before and after pics, because he already told me, that they've used the laser rarely to do such, so I AM going to be the case, that they will show others before and after pics from (...if everything goes well, I guess ) I was looking for a doctor (or somebody) who is at least willing to try to treat those fu... scars - everybody rejected, "too risky". This doctor I was actually only visting to get some other prescription, then he himself, without me asking him, told me the lasser stuff.

I am confused, because two professors and a doctor from the hospital in Heidelberg (Germany) told me, that I'd have to live with those scars (they charged me around 500$ just for saying that to me ), this was in 2007. For me it's hard to believe, that so much has changed within the past 4 years, that the prognosis can change from "you've to live with it" to 100% regeneration.

But he explained it in the way, that new knowledgement about lasers, and how invasive you can use them, and about the body's own stem cell proliferation, has been achieved - so "it can be done". I said, then DO IT!

Sorry for the misunderstanding - I have two hypertrophic scars on my cheeks, but they are not small. So on your scale I am something between 6-9. Not because my whole faceskin is affected, it's because those two scars are pretty severe. (They result out of falsly treated (acne) inflammations.) That, and that I am suffering really a lot under this, is probably the reason, why he is looking forward to do this laser treatment. He said, it's going to be a tough job, because they will burn deeper (with the laser) than usual, the risk that complications occur is pretty high and because all this is so invasive, which will also be the reason, why I'd have to stay in hospital for 4 weeks then.

The doctor can for sure not show me before and after pics, because he already told me, that they've used the laser rarely to do such, so I AM going to be the case, that they will show others before and after pics from 😉 (...if everything goes well, I guess 😀 ) I was looking for a doctor (or somebody) who is at least willing to try to treat those fu... scars - everybody rejected, "too risky". This doctor I was actually only visting to get some other prescription, then he himself, without me asking him, told me the lasser stuff.

I am confused, because two professors and a doctor from the hospital in Heidelberg (Germany) told me, that I'd have to live with those scars (they charged me around 500$ just for saying that to me 🙁 ), this was in 2007. For me it's hard to believe, that so much has changed within the past 4 years, that the prognosis can change from "you've to live with it" to 100% regeneration.

But he explained it in the way, that new knowledgement about lasers, and how invasive you can use them, and about the body's own stem cell proliferation, has been achieved - so "it can be done". I said, then DO IT!

Well listen man this sounds amazing. Who gives a shit about the pain and the how long you'd have to wait in the hospital. But what is the cost? It sucks though you have to weight till the end of 2012 --maybe even a few more procedures will be refined by then, so once you're ready I'd definitely explore all the options again.

If you have a camera on your computer, would it be possible to show us a small portion of your scarred area --it doesn't have to reveal your face. Your profile face is so small is so small I would never recognize you in life or in another picture, but you could just close-up on the scarred area, I'm interested to know exactly what we're dealing with.

Honestly, if your doctor is aiming for those kinds of results I would certainly consider getting this work done in germany(better start saving up now!). Have you asked him at all about the costs?

thanks Dagobert.

Hi so the above dagobart and others is an example of my acne scarring, as you can see some pretty deep boxcar, rolling scars and i have a number of icepick scars around the temples. I no longer get acne, so the slight discoloration you see is permanent. the skin is warped in places with various rolling scars.

Now watch, i change the lighting to produce a slightly more flat even lighting, NO other manipulation --even the angle is mostly the same and VOILA! no scarring can be seen! This is through a slight change in the direction of light. My lighting change may be obvious due to the reflection, but with even the most basic camera lighting you can choose a soft light and take the same picture again and it will make the scars go away or minimize them. It's like in fat transfer for cheekimplant augmentation, they always have the patient smile ever so slightly in the after picture ---OF COURSE THAT'S GOING TO MAKE THE CHEEKBONES LOOK HIGHER!! THEY THINK WE ARE COMPLETE MORONS. And all of these guys should be sued for false advertizing. Anyways there is NO laser in any mainstream practice that can fix my type of scarring to date that has been proven. Dagobert is a pioneer and I pray his results turn out well, but as of now. There is nothing.

Notice that in both pictures I am showing you the exact same pictures and surface area, I've only angled my head slightly to catch the soft window light. But if I had cropped the photograph differently and provided a blank background like ALL the pro before and after photos, you would not be able to see this either.

First I didn't want to do it, but here're the pictures. What you can see, is the result of a falsly treated acne (Isotretinoin was required, but not given), diagnosed as an (standard) acne vulgaris. (Left side picture also features a nice earplug in pink, because I was interrupting the nap I started taking before and I like total silence while doing that )

It initiated around christmas 2005 over night, with two inflammations, one on my right cheek, one one my left. You can see the incisions, done in spring 2006 by the same doctor treating me now again, at the orginial (where it started) spots. I had had acne vulgaris before, but not anymore after 2002, at least that's what I thought. But - obviously falsly treated (I didn't receive Isotretinoin back then) - after the incisions we're made and they gave me Isotretinoin and Cortison (in high doses) it progressed, resulting in permanent - weird! - scarring on the lower parts of my cheeks. Below those scars I believe there are interconnecting tunnels and so on (typical conglobata remains). This encourages ongoing inflammations.

No - I didn't ask him about the costs. Also I won't do it soon, because I don't want him to get the impression, that this is important to me. (Explanation: In Germany - usually - you get the treatment first, then they send you the bill. ... Also it cannot be thaaaat expensive (except probably the 4 week stay in hospital), but anyways I don't care about it - I'm suffering a lot under this, so I am going to fill his whole office with money, if that's required; whatever it costs, I will gladly pay it.

I don't care if you'd recognize me on the street; I mean, I know what you mean, when saying this, but I am not the type of person hiding, neither do I believe myself to be unattractive. And - thanks to Isotretinoin - it already looks a lot better now. So, no problem for me to publish pictures, but don't let it become too many, because I am already boycotting Facebook and all that crap.

yes, you also have some boxcar and rolling scars, but the advantage is they're not on the upper cheeks but closer to the lower near the jawline where no one will see. So even if it doesn't heal you will be fine once the accutane course is finished. It really is a cure for acne. Acne scarring, that's another case. Let's hope this new experimental treatment works! If you come across anything that you see can cure my type of scarring (or at least minimize it greatly) please do let me know!

yes, you also have some boxcar and rolling scars, but the advantage is they're not on the upper cheeks but closer to the lower near the jawline where no one will see. So even if it doesn't heal you will be fine once the accutane course is finished. It really is a cure for acne. Acne scarring, that's another case. Let's hope this new experimental treatment works! If you come across anything that you see can cure my type of scarring (or at least minimize it greatly) please do let me know!

Subcision - that could give you improvement for sure. Even another topical Isotretinoin therapy could do the job. But, anyways, if they can "remove" my scars here (in Germany), then they can help almost all of the users here (in this forum), so can doctors in the US. If they give me improvement, then I could tell you, who my doctor is (german professor, but on his wall I saw somekind of Harvard diploma, so I guess he must speak English pretty well, and I know, from looking him up on the internet and so on, that he is attending congresses etc. in the US frequently), and then your doctor could talk to him - because I don't think that anybody would've to travel to germany just to receive such treatment, especially not if you're living in the US.

Finally, just to make it clear, after the Isotretinoin therapy I won't be "fine", because it's much likely not going to remove my hypertrophic scars, scarring, interconnecting tunnels, whatever - I mean, how could it. But hopefully the laser treatment and the following regenerative process will do that.

that is true, if you can give you 100 percent or even 90 percent regeneration --it would be worth doing. Please do keep in touch with your progress. Thank you.

Hi so the above dagobart and others is an example of my acne scarring, as you can see some pretty deep boxcar, rolling scars and i have a number of icepick scars around the temples. I no longer get acne, so the slight discoloration you see is permanent. the skin is warped in places with various rolling scars.

Now watch, i change the lighting to produce a slightly more flat even lighting, NO other manipulation --even the angle is mostly the same and VOILA! no scarring can be seen! This is through a slight change in the direction of light. My lighting change may be obvious due to the reflection, but with even the most basic camera lighting you can choose a soft light and take the same picture again and it will make the scars go away or minimize them. It's like in fat transfer for cheekimplant augmentation, they always have the patient smile ever so slightly in the after picture ---OF COURSE THAT'S GOING TO MAKE THE CHEEKBONES LOOK HIGHER!! THEY THINK WE ARE COMPLETE MORONS. And all of these guys should be sued for false advertizing. Anyways there is NO laser in any mainstream practice that can fix my type of scarring to date that has been proven. Dagobert is a pioneer and I pray his results turn out well, but as of now. There is nothing.

Notice that in both pictures I am showing you the exact same pictures and surface area, I've only angled my head slightly to catch the soft window light. But if I had cropped the photograph differently and provided a blank background like ALL the pro before and after photos, you would not be able to see this either.

im with you 1000000% those PSs and dermatologists should be charged with false advertising. When I go for my consultation I will ask for before/after photos...if they are light manipulated in anyway Im probably going to have to hold myself back from getting incredibly pissed. ALL PEOPLE WHO MANIPULATE THOSE LIGHTS ARE CROOKS

im with you 1000000% those PSs and dermatologists should be charged with false advertising. When I go for my consultation I will ask for before/after photos...if they are light manipulated in anyway Im probably going to have to hold myself back from getting incredibly pissed. ALL PEOPLE WHO MANIPULATE THOSE LIGHTS ARE CROOKS

Cool man, I look forward to hearing about your consultation --I seriously wouldn't be timid about being aggressive and pressing the PS or derm. They're charging you a lot of money and you should demand to see real results. We really need to all help each other out through education, and finding and recommending legit solutions to this horrible problem. Thanks for replying.

I miss BRD..he gave me soo much hope!!

so this seems to be fairly promising --but it's about 4 years away for a practical solution available to us --i don't even know if it work for acne scars but i have a feeling what they would have to do is first laser the area and burn the area fairly deeply --then they would spray on the stem cell skin stuff --and MAYBE it would re-heal. I'm sure this is closer to what might produce a real solution to serious scars.

just google "the skin gun" and you'll see the national geographic video.

http://www.snotr.com/video/6723/The_Skin_Gun

... now guess why they're conducting the first clinical trials on burn victims.

so this seems to be fairly promising --but it's about 4 years away for a practical solution available to us --i don't even know if it work for acne scars but i have a feeling what they would have to do is first laser the area and burn the area fairly deeply --then they would spray on the stem cell skin stuff --and MAYBE it would re-heal. I'm sure this is closer to what might produce a real solution to serious scars.

just google "the skin gun" and you'll see the national geographic video.

http://www.snotr.com/video/6723/The_Skin_Gun

no idea? i assumed the application was developed specifically for burn victims due to urgency and possibly military application. i don't even know if it will work for acne scars, but i'm positive that we would have to treat with lasers first to induce a kind of burn and then the stem cell skin spray over it. what do you think dagobert?

... now guess why they're conducting the first clinical trials on burn victims.

sorry meant to reply to you, not myself. do you think they might be able to develop this faster than 4 years (obviously you have no way of answering that), i'm just hoping! it would be cool if you could ask your german doctor about it, it seems the guy who invented it is german.

Well Dagobert, BACK THE DRAWING BOARD! here's hoping that your doc in germany will provide a real treatment! I swear to god, i will fly to germany if your laser treatment works for you.

As for the stem cell gun, someone I know emailed the doctor from the above video, and guess what, he says NO:

I emailed Joerg Gerlac concerning acne scars and here is his reply:

"Thank you for your interest in our work.

I would like to comment that the patient was shown around a year after the injury. They say that the wound was healed after 4 days, which is true in the sense that the wound was already dry and the patient could go home without dressing or bandage, but it did not look like a year later in the video. I am very sorry to say that our work does relate only to acute burns. We can not offer treatments for a situation several month after the injury.

This technology is not able to address scars or other conditions like vitiligo, vascular conditions, hair loss or acne.

I am not aware of groups which could offer a solution.

2 papers on all cases are submitted but not yet published by the journals.

Thanks for your mail,

my best greetings, Jorg"

FUCKING SUCKS!