Acne.org Products
There is a clinical study, ongoing. Currently the method is being tested on burn victims. (Average timespan for such a study: 1 - 5 years) And no, it is no bogus - under extraordianry circumstances, doctors can already use this. Just one example: On TV (NDR, german public television) they showed an old patient suffering from diabetes mellitus. He had a huge wound on one of his heels, that did not heal. Normally the established - conservative - treatment would be amputation - so this counts as 'extraordinary circumstances'. Then his doctor (who already knew about Prof. Bader and his new method of treatment) contacted Bader and so the patients heel was treated with the new method. A support material matrix was placed on the wound, then adult stem cells (I think extracted from the spine) were mixed with cytokines and applied to the matrix. The healing process was shown in fast forward. In the report Prof. Bader himself explains, how the method works; that it's actually quite a simple trick. - - Didn't you ever wonder, why relatively small wounds heal without leaving a scar, and why big ones don't?! The answer is quite simple. For our body a big wound (let's say everything above 2mmA) has to be closed quick to avoid blood loss and infection. But differentiation (subkutis, dermis, membranes, epidermis) needs time. Small wounds don't carry the risk of an unwanted high blood loss (coagulation!!), infection risk is also lower, so the time needed for differentiation is granted.
Baders method tricks the body - that's it. I would love to publish the link to the NDR multimedia archive, or the one from the newspaper, but somehow I am not able to.
So PLEASE search google "Prof. Augustinus Bader NDR", the result is on the first page and leads directly to the Video.
I just saw a bit of the video where they have an animation that shows the way it works. So at the end they show a wound getting smaller but not disappearing. It would have been refreshing if they instead of everyone else went all the way and just. said. it. worked. 100%. All this "Yeah, we have something that works. But..........it might not work 100% every time, if ever." is just kind of exhausting.
I don't have time to watch the whole thing properly right now but I'll get back to it later. Thanks for posting this. It's very interesting.
http://www.ndr.de/fernsehen/sendungen/visi...ersalbe101.html
I think I can, yes - but give me some time, because my internet connection is very slow at the moment, so loading the video would take a while. I' ll do it the next days. Anyways I already explained, how it works - at least partly.
I'm gonna try to do it too. Let's see how good I am with this German. Das ist vielleicht nicht einfach. But I'm going to try anyway. ^^
I saw the video and from the short animation you can tell that what he is performing is the PRP procedure. He takes the patients blood and puts it into a centrifuge to separate the blood from the platelet rich plasma, he then injects it to the damaged area. This is not new.
I saw the video and from the short animation you can tell that what he is performing is the PRP procedure. He takes the patients blood and puts it into a centrifuge to separate the blood from the platelet rich plasma, he then injects it to the damaged area. This is not new.
Nein! Aka no. He's taking blood and then seperating the stem cells in the centrifuge. What happens from there on I kind of sort of understood but I'd have to see the video again before I can say what all that is.
No, it's not. While showing that, the Off-comment tells you, that with this procedure stem cells are isolated (then mixed with cytokines and several other substances).
I still didn't have the time for translation, but please - to all the others - do not post unintelligent stuff like "...is PRP".
What you see, is german doctors, german scientists, german documentation broadcasted by public german tv - you can be ABSOLUTELY sure, that this is NO BOGUS (in Germany we would say Hokus Pokus).
This guy works for a big german university. It would be ridiculous to put him and his work in question. Have a look at the webpage of the science team, there you can see all the scientists, that took, and still take, part in this project.
Ok, so what I think happens is that he takes adult stem cells from your blood and then multiplies them on a surface which is strangely made of bone? 
The whole is then placed on the wound somewhat like a sheet along with several other things like erythropoietin. They then say that the body adds things naturally and together with everything that is added through the treatment the wound healing is enhanced/supported.
He compares what's need for wound healing to a cooking recipe and says that it is understood/seen more and more what the ingredients are so he took those and put them together in this treatment.
They're doing tests in hospitals right now to see "How well it REALLY works.".
This approach seems to me to have similarities to other treatments which have been proven to only do so much. Meaning, they don't do what we'd like them to do namely reverse the damage done. However, it might be so that this one works beautifully. I guess we'll have to wait and wait and wait and wait and see. lol
I've read a lot about stem cell treatments, I've heard doctors say things... And from that I personally conclude that stem cell treatments fixing scars is not going to happen any time soon, if ever. Other things will happen and they might happen on the short term and they may eliminate scars but stem cell treatments... I think using stem cells by themselves in the first place isn't enough. Ugh, I remember the guy who started this thread giving everyone hope while he knew what he was saying wasn't 100% true. Not cool. He said to someone here "You can get your skin back the way it was." basically while he was talking basically about fat injections... lol Come on.I firmly believe that scars can be fixed at some point but it's going to be done eventually by a treatment which will get some process going in people's bodies which may envolve stem cells but a treatment which uses stem cells first and foremost or only? Not going to happen.
Imo.
This thread still gives me hope. I've been following it for overr a year. I've read every one of Bulgarian R's (Bird) posts a couple of times trying to absorb as much information as I possibly can. Sometimes I was obsessively searching for technical details that I imagined I had originally missed, while at other times I just wanted to reconfirm what I already thought about a well presented hypothesis. Perhaps this was the way that my HOPE could have the necessary momentum to get me through tough times.
Lapis Lazuli, you are either intentionally disinforming people about what bird said, or you are unintentionally writing misinformative statements due to your limited knowledge. You say that Bird was talking about simple fat injections, even though in july of 2009 he explicitly stated the following,
"Post culturing, the procedure that I've developed involves four primary steps:
1) I perform subcision and needling at the site of each and every acne scar to be treated. This creates macro and micro damage at the deeper dermis and hypodermis levels. Inflammation occurs immediately.
2) Right after step (1) I inject a customized PRP solution that I've discussed before. The platelets aggregate at the site of injection and coagulate in and around the normal blood scaffold that has formed there from the subcision. As previously said, a concentrated number of growth factors is then naturally released by coagulating platelets that trick the body into thinking that there is a relatively serious injury in that particular area. At the same time additional GFs/proteins (artificially added to the PRP solution: TGF-b3, Thymosin-b4, Fetuin-A and Laminin 511) suppress hyper inflammation, which is itself counterproductive. They also help control the stem cell response. Right before injection the PRP is further enhanced by a injectable ECM solution that contains endogeneic ECM particulates.
3) I perform secondary subcision to recreate what I call endo-dermal pockets right through the already apparent haematoma. I then inject the stem cells into this same site. They are immediately guided by GF signalling in the area. Soon after they begin their work as they integrate themselves in the coagulated blood scaffold that is itself reinforced by the said ECM particulates.
4) 6 hours following the 3rd step I have patients undergo their first post treatment LLLT dose. This continues daily in the comforts of their own homes as they have personal LED panels with red and infrared light output. This helps to stimulate the regenerative histological activities post treatment and at the same time further controls the inflammation."
Can you explain to me how he is referring to fat injections? Can you tell me how he is simply saying that stem cells alone will do the trick when his methodology involves subcision, PRP, a cocktail of anti-inflammatory proteins including growth factors, ECM components and adipose derived stem cells?
He also mentioned that his procedure is designed to work as an enhanced filler for atrophic scarring, and he never mentioned scarless healing. He simply said that stem cells and the specific growth factors mentioned could remodel SOME of the scar tissue, and that the most important goal was to get near perfect flattening of the atrophied area with the rest of the skin. Anyone with boxscar and rolling acne scars knows this is by far the most important issue to resolve. If you need more quotes I can certainly post them here because it doesn't seem like you've read this thread in detail. Please don't post incorrect, perhaps even disingenuous information in this thread.
His procedure is in my opinion imprasctical because it's too complex and time consuming. Given the details he has provided I imagine it would cost upwards of $20,000 in the US. Although that sucks, I think Bird did his best to use current scientific knowledge and technical capabilities to do something inspirational and innovative.
Thanks and hello to everyone...
Professor Bader also explains, that stem cells alone don't do the work. As he says, you only have to support the healing process in order to achieve a scarless healing. (Again: His method is based on stem cells, cytokines and a support material matrix)
Isn't it intersting that what Bird said two years ago in this thread is only now starting to look credible by the medical community? What once seemed incredulous when he said it in the past is now apparently on the cusp of being mainstream. I find it particularly telling that more and more researchers and doctors are repeating today what Bird had been saying all along. Stranger still, they are "developing" methodologies that seem to copy Bird's to a T. It seems this thread has influenced people beyond the mere acne sufferer online social circle. That's the power of sharing knowledge on the net and utilizing patients to get the message out to their physicians. In my line of work we'd call it logistical crowdsourcing.
... As far as I know, Professor Bader's method isn't "new", yes. 
But this is science - all that counts, is to help suffering people, and therefor someones personal reputation or gaining laurels shouldn't be of any importance.
BUT Bader's method is working. It was shown on german TV (see link few posts back). (They don't show the healing process until the very end, because the patient is a diabetic AND the wound reached so deep, that indeed a VERY small red mark remained, wuhu . That was also mentioned when talking about another treated patient - small girl, that had a severe burn injury on her foot.) Anyway - In this report german doctors and professors were talking about the method, how it works and that they've already used it. All those people are either working at a german hospital, university or as a registered doctor in germany. I could call them, visit them, ... what I mean is: The report was shown by a well known reputable tv journal, that is broadcasted weekly on NDR (North German Broadcasting Corporation). There were many articles in german newspapers like SZ (South German Newspaper) and Die Welt (The World .. ). So - I guess everything that was said about Bader and his method has for sure also been noticed by - let's say in general - many experts, versed in what was said. Somebody would've required them (NDR, SZ and Die Welt - for example) to either broadcast/publish a correction or at least a clarification.
Again: There is an ongoing study (at german (university) hospitals) concentrating on burn victims. I guess it was not easy to first get the permission to conduct such a study (/clinical trial), and second to convince patients - and THEIR doctors!! - to take part.
Lapis Lazuli, you are either intentionally disinforming people about what bird said, or you are unintentionally writing misinformative statements due to your limited knowledge. You say that Bird was talking about simple fat injections
Yeah, fat mixed with stem cells that you then inject. If you look at the post below e.g. you can see how I remembered it like that.
Again, what this means is that stem cells are extracted from fat tissue, then cultured, and finally recombined with the fat tissue a few days later into what is essentially an enhanced autologous cellular mixture which can regenerate tissue deficits present at the site of acne scars...
And here he seems to say that stem cells alone do the trick? :think:
BRD could you explain in more simple terms what this procedure is and how its done lol. i dont understandRoughly speaking:
1) liposuction of fat from say your belly
2) adding a tinge of trypsin to the extracted fat (trypsin is an enzyme that helps break up the connective tissue between the various cell types)
3) putting this trypsin enhanced cellular mass in a medical centrifuge for a minute or so at low RPMs in order to minimize potential damage to the stem cells
4) extracting stem cells from the post centrifuged cellular layers (a consequence of the centrifugal force (measured in terms of gravitational (G) units) whereby heavier cells migrate to the bottom of the flask while lighter ones stay on top)
5) placing seperated/extracted stem cells in a stem cell growth solution inside of an incubator at 37 degrees celcius
6) adding some antibiotic to prevent bacterial ingrowths within the stem cell growth solution
7) waiting a few days/weeks before extracting cultured stem cells
8) injecting them into dermal deficits such as acne scars
VOILA! ... ... ... not so hard 🙂
However I stand somewhat corrected; when I posted earlier I forgot about the other things which you posted.
He also mentioned that his procedure is designed to work as an enhanced filler for atrophic scarring, and he never mentioned scarless healing. He simply said that stem cells and the specific growth factors mentioned could remodel SOME of the scar tissue, and that the most important goal was to get near perfect flattening of the atrophied area with the rest of the skin. Anyone with boxscar and rolling acne scars knows this is by far the most important issue to resolve.
I'm sorry but...
And you may just get to have the skin you've always wanted.
Seems wrong wording on his part then. Once again he basically also said to someone who was trying to get treated in the past few years that they could get their skin back the way it was, if I remember correctly. So that was either wrong wording or deliberately misleading on BRD's part.
While on the subject of BRD... He also said that he didn't want to accept patients originating from acne.org as that way he'd "Avoid a conflict of interest". That didn't sound too good to me as he seemed to say that under certain circumstances he'd be tempted by the big bucks.
Also, he was offensive to someone here, saying something along the lines of "You're very smart for a 12 year old. :rolleyes: ". Very unprofessional.
So that contributed to doubts regarding his sincerity as well. As far as you doubting my sincerity... Why on Earth would I go around trashing BRD for the sake of it? What would I gain from that? What do you take me for? Some kind of hater/troll? :confused:
But I'm going to assume you were slightly emotional when posting. Many people get hope from this thread/the idea of stem cell treatments so whenever there's anyone who says they feel there's less to expect than people think there is from stem cell treatments I can see how some people get emotional/worried/defensive.
If you think I see things wrongly or am misinformed, you can say so in a civilized manner and try to point out where you feel I'm wrong. There's no need for (slight) accusations.
realistically tho.. when will such a treatment become mainstream? im tired oof the cosmetic industry and its BS laser procedures giving every one false hope of getting rid of there scars. there now regenerating full limbs and something as small as scne scars cant be taken care of ?
i think the psycological impact acne scars has on people is FAR greater then one would think there fore this should be a matter adresssed more serious. I think something has to be done to catch the publics attention. maybe a acne scarring campaign raising awareness? one more thing, i thank BRD for being in this board in the first place because he has given us hope. few years back he stated injecting blood into your scars would do the trick, now stem cellls, whats next? and o ya WHERE IS BRD NOW ??!!?!?!!?
realistically tho.. when will such a treatment become mainstream? im tired oof the cosmetic industry and its BS laser procedures giving every one false hope of getting rid of there scars. there now regenerating full limbs and something as small as scne scars cant be taken care of ?i think the psycological impact acne scars has on people is FAR greater then one would think there fore this should be a matter adresssed more serious. I think something has to be done to catch the publics attention. maybe a acne scarring campaign raising awareness? one more thing, i thank BRD for being in this board in the first place because he has given us hope. few years back he stated injecting blood into your scars would do the trick, now stem cellls, whats next? and o ya WHERE IS BRD NOW ??!!?!?!!?
okay, this is my first time posting. i really need some help. i have icepick, boxcar, rolling and even a couple of hypertrophic scars. i'm not quite tommy lee jones territory but i'm close. there are threads on this board that report success with excision etc. and this doctor if you see his last vid does all three plus fat injections which he refers to as involving "stem cells" but if he could do what we all want, that is, essentially create new shiny skin, he would have pics, and his before/afters are terrible(obvious lighting difference and little improvement). So could someone PLEASE post when they've found some results. Please.
realistically tho.. when will such a treatment become mainstream? im tired oof the cosmetic industry and its BS laser procedures giving every one false hope of getting rid of there scars. there now regenerating full limbs and something as small as scne scars cant be taken care of ?i think the psycological impact acne scars has on people is FAR greater then one would think there fore this should be a matter adresssed more serious. I think something has to be done to catch the publics attention. maybe a acne scarring campaign raising awareness? one more thing, i thank BRD for being in this board in the first place because he has given us hope. few years back he stated injecting blood into your scars would do the trick, now stem cellls, whats next? and o ya WHERE IS BRD NOW ??!!?!?!!?
okay, this is my first time posting. i really need some help. i have icepick, boxcar, rolling and even a couple of hypertrophic scars. i'm not quite tommy lee jones territory but i'm close. there are threads on this board that report success with excision etc. and this doctor if you see his last vid does all three plus fat injections which he refers to as involving "stem cells" but if he could do what we all want, that is, essentially create new shiny skin, he would have pics, and his before/afters are terrible(obvious lighting difference and little improvement). So could someone PLEASE post when they've found some results. Please.
okay the url was erased, the doctor's name is phillip young in seatle, just go to his site and look under procedures "acne scarring".
I sincerely hope that for the sake of many Americans, this will become more popular sooner rather than later.
Stem Cells are quite amazing. My cousin was in an auto accident 7 years ago. He was fine and walked around and gave a statement to the police and then went to the hospital because he complained of head pains. On his drivers license he was listed as an organ donor and for 12 hours they let him lay on a bed hoping he would die.
His brain swelled and he went into a coma for the next 2 years.
He finally came out but is not the same. His mental state has drastically digressed.
Fast forward through many years of progress in his recovery and small moments of digression.
My Aunt flew him to the Dominican Republic to have stem cell injections and the difference is insane. He's now had this done three times and he is doing absolutely amazing.
I generally and intentionally do not post on this thread or respond anywhere on the board were someone tries to play an anonymous whitecoat, over say a normal anonymous poster or a non-anonymous authority. (Though I may have posted once or twice before.)
The BRD is an anonymous whitecoat expert FFS. Look at that last sentence, he is a awhitecoat anonymous expert.a That in itself says conflict of interest.
He is an anonymous expert who tried to hurd information seekers to look at certain information, by being or playing the role of an 'anonymous whitecoat expert and authority.' Knowing by using the white coat authority he will instruct people instead of informing. Knowing people in awe of his anonymous white coat with essay skills will
-get sucked in by this talk and instructions they perceive (where they forget his information is not gospel but its just merely reference to be verified, like the information they get of other anonymous posters);
-which would bringing a cult were in this cult were they will then then stop verifying and critically thinking for themselves;
-and completely ignore other avenues of information that could help them release themselves etc.
Ask yourselves why is that? Heh, heh.
Ask yourselves if he posted this as a normal poster would the same amount of people have been sucked in? You will see it would not. So now ask yourself why was he keen to be an anonymous expert with authority? Where we cant see his face, critically examine his visible motives, were we cant verify him?
Ask yourself why did he want to instruct and not inform with the use of the aanonymous whitecoata?
The white coat is one of the oldest salesmen tricks in the book. Go to youtube and type in aDras love camels cigarettes.a Then go to google and type in penis pills and extenders.
wow long thread- some of you obviously researched a lot into this.
Im considering having stem cell treatment on a scar, ive seen the consultant in Glasgow in this articlenew scotman article
the question is this- the 'kit' allows an area to be healed that is far larger than the size of my scar. I have very dark circles under my eyes and asked the consultant, if i decided to go ahead with the treatment on my scar, could i use the rest of the prepared cells to give me new skin under the eyes instead of the dark pigment i have at present. He said yes, but this is such a new treatment i felt I might be being sold to.
Those of you without ulterior interest in promoting the procedure, do you think it could be used for dark skin under the eys as well as scars?
wow long thread- some of you obviously researched a lot into this.Im considering having stem cell treatment on a scar, ive seen the consultant in Glasgow in this articlenew scotman article
the question is this- the 'kit' allows an area to be healed that is far larger than the size of my scar. I have very dark circles under my eyes and asked the consultant, if i decided to go ahead with the treatment on my scar, could i use the rest of the prepared cells to give me new skin under the eyes instead of the dark pigment i have at present. He said yes, but this is such a new treatment i felt I might be being sold to.
Those of you without ulterior interest in promoting the procedure, do you think it could be used for dark skin under the eys as well as scars?
I wouldn't do that if I were you. All of these SC treatments are all so experimental... Chances are you'll end up wishing you never had the procedure. And you'll long for your good old dark pigment.
Just what I think. :confused: Anyone who tells you that you can get new skin at this point should be avoided. The procedure you mentioned only has been proven to do so much.
Well people, I have bad news --but it's sort of good news if you're sick of wasting time. There is no effective acne scar treatment. Today I spoke and visited 2 dermatologists and 1 cosmetic surgeon all three of whom specialize in scar/laser/acne variously. I'm sick of the misleading photos( EVERY photo I have seen of before afters deceives through differing shot scale, lighting, angle between before and after --esp. lighting. Under certain very flat, soft lighting my scars too are completely invisible). So it's BS. I pressed each of the doctors on this, and they finally relented. One of the dermatologists was VERY honest though. He flat out said, lasers DO NOT WORK. He said he has NEVER seen a laser improve acne scarring and at best it might be so infitesimal an improvement that it's not even worth it, will do nothing for icepick, boxcar or rolling scars at all. Even CO2 fractional or the more invasive treatments.
Moreover, all were familiar about the stem-cell and ACELL protocols. Basically the honest derm doctor said it's just marketing. The take adipose fat cells from you, culture them etc. but this does NOTHING for the acne scars. They can call them "stem cells" and apply the acell matrix etc. and it will cost you a lot of money, but injecting this combo has shown to have NO causal effect on acne scarring. One point he made quite well was the following: if we or anyone were actually able to regenerate skin which is what you'd need to fix boxcar and rolling scars that would be absolutely a revolution in medical science because then people with wrinkles and aging would get the treatment just to look younger and have fresh skin. He said it's not possible and will not be possible unless there is a true science fiction type revolution in biomedical science. He said all the stem cell stuff now and for the next few decades as far as he can see will just be marketing and product differentiation to gain profits. The science to do this does not exist. Thought I'd share this with all of you. Disappointing but at least realistic. I think I'm gonna just accept my scars as they are. Sure I have the Tommy Lee Jones effect, but hey, it's not the end of the world, better get used to it.