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Hi BRD,
I have never posted here and am quite new. However, I have taken quite an interest in this thread.
I come from a quite a scientific background; my dad's a doctor and a PhD, and I'll hopefully be a med student next year; and it seems that you have hit upon a niche that is not yet exploited to any degree in the west or anywhere else for that matter.
I will not lie and say I have read all of this thread because some of the posts are very long and I frankly do not have enough time to read everything, but I have read quite some. I have a couple of questions that have intrigued me and I think everyone would benefit from their answers:
1. How long after taking oral isotretinoin can one carry out such surgical procedures, whether they be Platelet-rich plasma, or stem-cell-containing fat? Will the efficacy of the procedure after such a treatment vary?
2. When the solution is injected into the skin depressions, how can one control the growth of the stem cells so that they grow such that the surface of the skin becomes smooth? What I mean to say is how can the body control (artificially)injected stem cells to grow and reproduce at the exact amounts? Is overgrowth, resulting in a raised scar possible? I am a bit ignorant of the exact mechanism taking place during this procedure.
3. Does one assume that any surgeon or dermatologist know how to carry out such a procedure by the simple instructions mentioned in the beginning of this thread? If doctors are not familiar with such procedures does one trust the doctor's skills for a procedure he may not be informed enough about? A simple matter that comes to mind is; would the practitioner know how to recognize the stem cell layer from the other layers after centrifugation, and would s/he know how to culture the stem cells effectively after the extraction from the abdomen? Or more seriously, how much to inject and how deep, for example?
I thank you in advance for your answers and to be pioneering in this branch of dermatology.
id say i have an 80% improvemnt s we speak..yes i did.(smrtxide)the stem thing thing will be known soon..the prp worked nicley..im awaiting confirmation regrding the stem cell therapy..
ill let u all know in due time
Very impressed !
Icaretohelp how long have you had your scars ?
Good luck with the stem cells !
OK my acne scars have gotten from bad to Freddy Kreuger-ish over the years. I can't take it anymore, but after hearing today that the government will fund stem cell research my only thought was that a possible cure for my seriously FUBAR ass-acne scars has finally arrived. I'm still in my mid-twenties but all the stress these scars have been causing me has aged me in a disturbing fashion. No laser, cream, dermarolling, chemical peels (which made my scars DEEPER) has made a dent in giving me relief. 
I hope all you morally grounded guys/girls (not you antagonizing pricks) who suffer from this debilitating problem will see an end to this suffering soon, cause I sure as hell am running out of patience....sigh, what I wouldn't do to see an end to this cruel twist of fate... 
My heart goes out to you Pete!! This is really interesting indeed, I have some mild scarring due to acne, and am hoping to find a way to be rid of it after I stop breaking out (thanks to the regimen!!)
Does anyone know of a place that offers this treatment in the US, or possibly in south korea?
BRD i need your help ... ive been examining my skin closly and ive noticed that alot of the ice pick scars that i thought i have are actually large pores. especially on my nose (nose is covered in large pores and inner cheeks). What do you suggest i do to treat these large pores ... they have been bothering me for a few years now and they keep getting worse (more, larger). ive read everywhere on the net that this is a genetic problem and absolutly nothing can be done about it, which is soo depressing to read becuase im only 20 years old and my skin looks so uneven and just plain crap ...especilly for my age.
if i had to choose either getting rid of the pores or getting rid of the scars i would definaly choose to get rid of the pores ... they make my skin look ten times worse then the scars.
is there anything you can suggest that will help me would stem cells work (can they even be injected into the nose) ? ... im getting desperate now
thanks
Hello Bulgarian Doctor :
I have bben reading about stem cells for awhile now. I think it's great that you are providing us with this information.I feel this can be the ultimate cure, for lack of a better word, for our scars and many other deseases. I want to push this issue with doctors here in the US, hoping to trigger more interest. Actually, i am seeing a doctor this Tuesday for another skin reason but i want to mention stem cells. Would stem cells also work for a red raised (hypertrophic scar from a mole removal in lower pec area...not too noticeable but i would want all my scars improved) or would it work better, combined with another method ? Also I would be interested in partricipating in tests.
Can you tell me if this is being done in Greece ?
Thank you.
ahh good..on a positive note..skin is looking better right now..think its cos im back home and chilled:)
Someone asked if anyone tried Stemgevity. I've been on it for a few weeks. Couple positive notes: My skin is looking and feeling better and I seem to have overcome the afternoon tiredness that would kick in after lunch. So far so good. I got curious as to how can stem cells help clear up scars. This is what I found out - Any new cell comes from a stem cell. The more stem cells circulating in the body allows for more haling to occur. That's it in a nut shell as far as I can tell.I'm a little bit excited and hope I've found an answer I've been looking for for years.
As mentioned before, anyone interested in going to Aoluosi, Beijing for treatment can email photos to the clinic to get a cost estimate, but most of the staff and physicians at Aoluosi do not speak English.
Holdontohope, another board member and I are making plans to organize an interested group from acne.org to China for treatment. The advantages of presenting ourselves as a group are (even if we don't all go at the same time): 1) I can try to negotiate a discount for our group, since the cost for travel/treatment is high. 2) I can offer translation help when necessary, so language barrier will be less of an issue for non-Chinese speakers. 3) If some of us do manage to go at the same time, we can help to support one another throughout the journey and treatment process.
In addition, as part of the effort to raise awareness and motivate doctors in NA to pursue clinical applications of stem cells treatment for scars. For our group, we plan to document in detail, each individual's treatment procedure and result. Not only will this be very helpful for us to monitor our own progress. The idea is also that, after the group completes treatment in China, every cosmetic surgeon and dermatologist, who had previously treated the individuals in this group (thus were familiar with his/her patient's skin condition before), will not only receive an in-person visit by their respective patient but also our full-documentation -- so the doctor can witness him/herself the "first-hand proof" of the advantages/efficacy of stem cell regenerative treatment for acne scars. The documentation (photos will be manipulated so no personal identities remains) will also be available on a website intended for all interested medical professionals and public to review.
If you are interested in joining us (or even just want to get treatment recommendation and cost estimate for your condition), please PM me with photos. Make sure the photos contain your identifier (i.e. avatar or name) and pre-treat the photos if your want to conceal the eyes for example. Prof. Zhang promised he will review each set of photos I send him and reply with a short summary.
Please note that I have absolutely no affiliations with Aoluosi and I gain no personal benefit from this. I plan to go for treatment myself, since it is not available in NA. And this idea of group project came from the above stated reasons and is offered as a help for those who want to get the stem cell treatment in Aoluosi, but may be concerned with language barriers.
The documentation (photos will be manipulated so no personal identities remains) will also be available on a website intended for all interested medical professionals and public to review.
This info should definetly go on holdontohope's website as this is dedicated to scaring
The documentation (photos will be manipulated so no personal identities remains) will also be available on a website intended for all interested medical professionals and public to review.This info should definetly go on holdontohope's website as this is dedicated to scaring
Indeed that is exactly what we plan to do.
Amazing info, 2012.
I think a lot of people with ice pick scars were hoping this might help them as well. He said 90%+ improvement for rolling. Did he mention what the success rate average was for ice picks and other deep scars? I guess I don't understand how he said he didn't have great success with ice picks as the photos BRD first posted looked like some might be ice-pick-like.
From what I'm reading -- although this is still super exciting info -- this is seeming to really still be a kind of filler, albeit with the major enhancements of stem cells -- but still that - a filler. What's your opinion on this?
thanks!
EMAIL RESPONSE I RECEIVED FROM SEISHIN REGENERATIVE MEDICINE CENTER, JAPAN today.
Unfortunately, despite my high hopes, it seems Seishin is NOT currently using stem cell therapy for acne scars 
They are still in testing/research phase re: stem cells for acne scar treatment. However, it is unclear to me from their email reply below whether or not they would consider using stem cells clinically on a patient upon request.
I emailed Seishin a month ago with an introduction and someinitial questions on their stem cell therapy for acne scars. I also asked to speak with their physician in charge. The short story was I had to use my very broken Japanese for an hour in a long distance phone call 
+ 3 repeat emails that disappeared from Seishin's inbox + finally the 4th repeat email with a Japanese friend's introduction in Japanese -- to get a reply and reach someone who can communicate in English.
Below is the exact word-to-word email response from them.
" At first, We are very sorry, We can not accept telephone counseling with our physician.Because our physician is so busy.
If you want to know detail, you can reach our physician by e-mail through me.
Our doctor can speak English a little, and there is staff who can speak Chinese.
Furthermore, we can arrange [English-Japanese] interpreter [for non-Japanese speakers] (Only when the patient visit our clinic)
You suffer from acne scar, do not you?
I confirmed your question to our physician below
We usually treat acne scar by derma roller therapy, PRP therapy or both of them.
We usually use adiposed derived stem cell which is extracted by cellution system for breast augmentation, hip augmentation, wrinkle and face augmentation now.
For acne scar area, We try to research now. So we do not have cases for acne scar by stem-cell therapy.
So, We are very sorry [not to be able] to offer detail information to you about acne scar treatment which is used by adiposed derived stem cell.
And I need to go business trip next Monday, so you cannot reach me by phone.
If you have any other question for our doctor, Please reach by e-mail. It is convenient for us.
[below are the questions from the email i sent and Seishin's answers]
1) How much fat is extracted in the initial liposuction? And, through the Cellution technology, what concentration of mesenchymal stem cells can be reached in the 100ml of the final injectable mixture (i.e. Cellution extracted stem cells recombined with adipose-cells)? And in your opinion, what is the optimal level of this same concentration required to produce the best scar remodeling result?
Answer: 5ml stem cell is extracted from 100ml fat.
We usually use that stem cell and fat for graft.
Now, we are testing for anti-aging now.
2) Is there any info/statistic you can provide regarding comparison of the above mentioned concentration level of stem cells generated by the Cellution technology and that by traditional method of isolation and culturing of stem cells in a lab?
Also, besides the more immediate, real-time delivery of Adipose cell-derived stem cells, what are other potential advantages and disadvantages (if any) of the Cellution Method compared to the traditional method? Especially in terms of the final result?
Answer: traditional method is extracted by human hand. Our system is totally automated. That is, Our system is closed system. So It is clean and no variance stem cells, we can extract.
3) How effective is this procedure for depressed facial acne scars of different depth and sizes? Has there been many cases of successful treatment of this kind at Seishin? If so, could you kindly provide some before/after photos of patients treated by Seishin's Cellution Rejuvenation Therapy for depressed scars? That would be most helpful and greatly appreciated!!
Answer: I am very sorry. I have not before after photo about acne scar area.
4) Do you pre-treat the scars with micro-needling to initiate the wound healing cascade, prior to PRP and Cellution therapy? What are basic pre-procedure preparation and post procedure care we should be aware of, especially with regard to our travel arrangement? What other types of acne scar treatment would you recommend, that can work in synergy with the Cellution therapy?
Answer: I cannot answer this question. But derma roller therapy is good result for acne scar.
5) In your experience, is Cellution Rejuvenation Therapy also effective in treating
(A) Hyperpigmentation
(B) Scarred/enlarged pores (basically very small scars)
© Uneven skin tone and texture
Or other treatment is required in conjunction with Cellution Rejuvenation Treatment to address these conditions? If so, what would they be and in what order should they be done?
Answer: We do not have cases until now. We are trying test that area. So I can not tell information about that.
Thank you.
Best regards,
Kannari
In charge of administration"
oo-------------------------------------------oo
Cosmetic Surgery Seishin
Seishin Regenerative Medicine Center
-- Tokyo/Osaka/Fukuoka/Sapporo --
[Headquarters]
Tokyo Clinic:Pyramide 2F,
6-6-9 Roppongi,Minato-ku,Tokyo 106-0032
JAPAN
Phone: +81-3-6734-7150 (9:30AM-8:00PM)
E-Mail: [email protected]
Amazing info, 2012.I think a lot of people with ice pick scars were hoping this might help them as well. He said 90%+ improvement for rolling. Did he mention what the success rate average was for ice picks and other deep scars? I guess I don't understand how he said he didn't have great success with ice picks as the photos BRD first posted looked like some might be ice-pick-like.
From what I'm reading -- although this is still super exciting info -- this is seeming to really still be a kind of filler, albeit with the major enhancements of stem cells -- but still that - a filler. What's your opinion on this?
thanks!
Hello, Zuckerman
He said, IN COMPARISON, the result is best for rolling scars and icepick is most difficult to treat (sad but as usual, no surprise there). That is not to say you won't get result with icepicks, just in his experience, the result is generally not as good as that for rolling scars. He did not give me a specific improvement rate for icepick or boxcar (I will ask next time).
But when I asked, "What about 70% improvement?" He replied without hesitation, "That's not very demanding at all and below the average of most of our patients' expectations. Most of our patients want perfect results, sometimes a bit unrealistic...". So my guess is: he meant 70% is quite achievable, but possibly more. I have asked for more before after photos with boxcar and icepick scars to be sent to me. I will post when I receive them.
I should add that prof. Zhang believes strongly about telling the patient realistic results they can expect and avoids any over-blown claims. I sense he prefers to be more on the conservative side than the ambitious one when asked "how much improvement can be expected?". He is clearly a medical research/clinical professional and not a marketing one.
And whether it's just another filler or not? I can be wrong, but I don't think any of these procedures is just filling the scars with fillers, in the sense of leveling the scar depression with a filler material that does not live on, integrate with the healthy tissues at the injected site, and self-regenerate. The primary functions of stem cells and PRP is, of course, to grow new, healthy, continuously self-repairing tissues. And, correct me if I am wrong, even with the fibroblast delivery and adipose tissue transfer (non stem cell components) -- the idea is to deliver them under the conditions and into an environment primed for their maximal chance of survival. Once surviving, the injected cells would integrate into it's respective site (in the dermis/subcutaneous fat layers) and continue to live, function and renew like normal tissues -- unlike artificial fillers that would just slowly break-down and get absorbed by the body thus requiring repeat filling as that happens.
In fact, the adipose cells' function to structurally support and 'plump up' the scarred area from the subcutaneous fat layer is, in my view, a greatly desired effect. As, from what I understand, autologous fat transfer alone is quite effective to correct acne scars and has long lasting results. Some patients only require one treatment and are satisfied with the outcome. But because it's really expensive to do, so if one has many scars, it would be a very expensive treatment. I think fat transfer coupled with needling/fibroblast/stem cells/PRP injection would hopefully lead to enhanced, synergistic results than doing any one of them alone.
We will never know how any procedure will work out on oneself until we try it, as always, results can vary greatly among individuals. And my feeling is that the advantage here lies exactly in Aoluosi's multiple approaches available + stem cells to treating scars. Many who have reported good overall results in treating acne scars often have tried multiple methods over years of trial-and-errors to find treatment, and/or combinations of treatment, that gives them the result they want.
Excellent. I can't believe I missed that.Perhaps Dr. Choi would be open to discussing the possibility of augmenting the platelet rich plasma by adding small quantities of specific proteins that BRD has previously mentioned, namely TGF-B3, Thymosin B4, Fetuin-A, and Laminin 511. This would surely help maximize results and possibly even reduce the number of treatments required.
Hey,Did you read his website? He does use PRP for acne scars.
"MC Acne Scar Therapy is one of our signature procedures developed by Dr. Choi. MC Acne Scar Therapy is a
truly bio-friendly approach to reduce the appearance of acne scars.
What is the procedure like?
A small amount of blood is taken from the patient to produce platelet rich plasma (PRP). Upon activation, PRP
is applied to the skin with acne scar with Mi-Roll System. In addition deeper acne scars are individually
injected with a fine needle to correct the appearance.
How does it work?
Mi-Roll System creates microscopic channels that allow PRP to penetrate deep into the skin affected by
acne scars. PRP stimulates proliferation of fibroblasts and keratinocytes creating new skin. Mi-Roll System
also breaks up abnormal fibers that contribute to the unevenness of skin. In addition, Dr. Choi may decide to
inject deeper scars with PRP. As the needle is being withdrawn, it can be manipulated to break up abnormal
fibers that may contribute to scar appearance.
In addition to correcting acne scars, the procedure also enhances the texture and vitality of your skin by
creating new blood vessels. Newly created vessels provide vital nutrients to the skin to maintain healthy skin.
Is the treatment painful?
The procedure is simple and convenient with minor discomfort. Our clinic uses an air chiller that cools the
skin before, during and after treatment, making the treatment tolerable to most patients. For sensitive
individuals, sedative can be given to make the treatment comfortable. Most patients describe the treatment as
having a mild sunburn sensation.
How long is the recovery time?
Typically, there is little to no down time associated with the treatment. Some redness of the treated area may
last a few days after treatment. Make-up can be applied the next day.
How many treatments do I need?
Acne scars look better within days following single treatment. Severe acne scarring may need up to 5
treatments.
How long is the treatment?
On the treatment day, the entire visit lasts about 90 minutes. The actual procedure requires about 20 minutes."
It appears that there is a clinic in Vancouver, BC Canada, the Moonsang Choi Clinic, using PRP for wrinkles and wound repair: http://mcmedgroup.com/services.htmlThe Clinic does offer acne scar repair, but PRP is not listed as a treatment option. Perhaps Dr. Choi can be persuaded to try it.
It would be great if we could convince this doctor to try this with autologous adult stem cells
2012, do you know if all the acne scar before/after photos Bulgarian Dermatologist posted are from patients treated at Aoulousi? And did Dr. Zhang confirm to you whether this treatment can remodel scar tissue like BRD said?
edit: nevermind. i just checked Aoluousi's website and if you click on the before and afters on the main page it will take you to a gallery of more before and afters. and it looks like all the photos posted by BRD are from there.
I appreciate the information you supplied, and the effort in relaying and translating your conversation to us, 2012, but I'm more confused than ever. For one thing it appears from the photos that the patients' who's skin looks completely restored have boxcar scarring, while the guy who hasn't achieved full restoration has deep rolling scars. That seems to oppose what this dr. is saying. Also, you said he mentioned possibly using lasers to remove surface damage. That to me, means that this procedure is not capable of remodeling scar tissue like BRD mentioned. Correct me if I'm wrong.