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Hey Smashing Pumpkins I have a question..Would doing this benfit my skin? I have senstive skin that gets a little oily later on going towards the evening time. I get break outs in hurty papules on my cheeks(like between 3-5), as well they leave red marks, always. I know at the moment I am on meds, so I can't do it at the moment, sadly..it'd be to irritating, to much for my skin to handle.. But I am really interested, in doing it after active acne for keeping it away and healing my marks. Do I have to add a asprin tablet in the acv mixture, or just how it is? Thanks a bunch, I am really hoping that this will work for me. I'll keep my eyes open on this topic. 🙂
You don't have to use aspirin in the toner but it may help seeing as you said you get painful cysts. The aspirin will help the inflammation. i also suggets getting the Neosporin Cream Pain Reliever because it will numb the pain of those cysts.
Yes Use the ACV Toner but because you said you have sensitive skin only use 50/50. ACV will give your skin a protective layer keeping away the bacteria that cause acne. This is why it is soo beneficial. On top of that it will balance your skin so if it is dry it will help to make it more supple and if it is oily is will reduce your oily skin. Start out using it 2x a day for a week, and if that is fine liek ti doesn't sting I suggest making a stronger solution and then using it as often as you wish.
So, I've been using ACV for about a week or so now, and I am loving it! My skin tone has improved so much, my old red marks seem to be turning pink, and even though I still have to blot my face, it's not as oily as it was before.I picked up a book at the local library called "Amazing Apple Cider Vinegar" - very interesting!
I also went and pick up ACV tablets (only $5) at the drugstore and it seems to have cut my appetite in half so I don't find myself snacking as much.
I'm still using the cheap ACV but I did pick up Organic ACV which I will start using when the cheap stuff is gone.
Now, I have all these face products sitting in my bathroom that cost me a fortune, which I don't even feel I need anymore! ACV has done wonders for me!
I am in the same boat as you lol. I look at the 3 shelves I have with all sorts of acne products and I regret spedning all that money. Over the past what 6 years it must have reached 1,000 dollars by now. Well .. look at it this way you won't be wasting your money anymore 🙂
Okies i thought i'd try this...
I was in the bath and after i got out my pores had opened so i though okies lemmie try it.
I done the 50/50 thing and i put on my face... left on their but my face has gone bright red!
Its still bright red 1 hour after... it better not be like this tomorrow cos im meeting someone.
I look like someone whos got real bad sun burn 
Mines called 'Aspall Organic Cyder Vinegar', 500ml, 5% Acidity.
This normal? lol
Putting 0.00000001M HCl on your face will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
You correctly point out that at the same concentration HCl and Acetic acid will have different pH values. And you are also correct in saying that this is why they are termed 'Strong' acid and 'Weak' acid, respectively. And you also aluded to the different dissociation constants, which was lovely :wub: .
HOWEVER, that doesn't automatically mean that ALL solutions of HCl will burn your skin off. Weak solutions will NOT, despite HCl being a 'strong acid'.
Personally, I think the terms 'STRONG ACID' and 'WEAK ACID' are misleading. If you ask joe public which is more dangerous; HCl or Acetic acid.....everyone will definately say HCl. No-one will say "well, it depends on the concentration of each". People know HCl is a 'strong' acid, and jump to the incorrect conclusion that it is somehow dangerous no matter what state it's in.
I think a better term is DISSOCIATIVE.
"HCl is a highly dissociative acid, acetic acid is.....not"
Yes, I agree with you there... Standard nomenclature terms acids with big dissociation constants "strong" acids and those with small dissociation constants as "weak" acids... But it's not easy to just say to someone on the street that a low concentration of a "strong" acid will make it "weaker." It is confusing to someone who doesn't know the nomenclature or the theory behind it... Anyway, my ACV I bought yesterday says it's 5% ACV... but that's 5% by volume, so in terms of the concentration of protons floating around in there, it's pretty small... especially after I dilluted it to 2.5% by volume 😀 But the chemistry of putting HCl on your face (even in low concentrations) is different than acetic acid... that doesn't mean it's dangerous in sufficiently low concentrations (or that concentrated acetic acid isn't dangerous), just that it's different... but since not many people have access to say, a 0.4M standard HCl solution, it doesn't matter much anyway... and there's HCl in most water sources in small amounts anyway.
Smashing Pumpkins, the retinoid I am using is a prescription-strength topical retinoid (Retin-A Micro 0.04%) and it's much stronger than Green Cream or other "Vitamin A" creams... tretinoin is a derivative of Vitamin A, not the vitamin itself (that's a whole nother barrel of scientific apples... don't get me started on vitamins and their derivatives and the differences between them because people don't understand it). Retinyl Palmitate is another pre-formed derivative of Vitamin A... If you want to learn more about tretinoin and topical retinoids visit the prescription meds forum. The primary effects of Retin-A Micro is increasing cell turnover in the epidermis and collagen synthesis in the dermis... and since clogged pores (and hence acne) are caused by abnormal keratinization, the retinoid's purpose is to normalize the keratinization... My hope is that combined with the ACV I can keep my skin virtually free of loose dead cells so that my pores don't get clogged and I don't get acne (and maybe tighten up some of my pores) 😀 Besides right now I don't have any active spots, just some scabbing and lots of red marks.
SmashingPumpkins, you mentioned several times that you use the ACV as least 3 times a day. You also mentioned that you love makeup. What do you do about your makeup in the middle of the day when you want to apply more ACV? Wouldn't it wipe off a bit? It's probably so simple, but I just can't figure it...
For the retinoid users who are experiencing redness. I'm using Differin and at first I got really irritated and red. So I stopped.
Then I used a much much reduced concentration of ACV in water. Like 1:8 ratio and I increased it slowly by 1.
I also started exfoliating with baking soda in the beginning. I'm basically following that Deliah girls method of baking soda, ACV, and lemon/egg white mix and I'm getting no more redness. In a week, my skin has gotten used to the acidity. I'll go full concentration tomorrow.
SmashingPumpkins, you mentioned several times that you use the ACV as least 3 times a day. You also mentioned that you love makeup. What do you do about your makeup in the middle of the day when you want to apply more ACV? Wouldn't it wipe off a bit? It's probably so simple, but I just can't figure it...
I dont think I'd apply the ACV over makeup... sounds really sloppy. She probably cleanses her face before she applies it morning and probably doesnt wear makeup at night for her 2nd/3rd application.
SmashingPumpkins, you mentioned several times that you use the ACV as least 3 times a day. You also mentioned that you love makeup. What do you do about your makeup in the middle of the day when you want to apply more ACV? Wouldn't it wipe off a bit? It's probably so simple, but I just can't figure it...
Well seeing as I am not in school so basically the only says I wear makeup are usually 2 days out of the entire week, I have all day to put on ACV. When school starts well for me seeing as I am in college that will be easy seeing as my classes are all over the place I have plenty of in between time so I cna easily wahs my face and apply it again. I guess if you are in shcool all day the only time you cna put it on is in the morning and then as many times as you want when you get home. That is what I would do.
"please point out a source that says acetic acid is an alpha hydroxy acid. My sources say glycolic acid, lactic acid, citric acid, and a few others are the AHAs."
Ok, acetic acid probably wouldn't technically be classed as a strict 'alpha' hydroxy acid, because it (in it's base form) doesn't have a hydroxy group on the alpha carbon. However, in solution, there will be an equilibrium reached where you will indeed have the hydroxylated species, which interchanges at will with the non-hydroxylated species. So, technically no it's not an AHA on paper, but in solution it will act as one. I stand corrected. At least 3 of the references I gave seem happy to use the term AHA as a blanket to cover the acids, including acetic. It's like saying "a car isn't a car if it doesn't have wheels on".....sort of.
"please point out sources where ACETIC ACID specifically helps red marks"
There is nothing quite that specific out there (or at least with the 5 min search I did). Generally you'll find that Journal articles will group several compounds together because they all act in a similar way....and it would be pointless and unduly expensive to home in on just one sub-species. In my experience, it is very rare that you'll find any one article that will answer all your questions, and especially one so specific.. Journal searching is a science in itself.....in fact some researchers make a living just reseraching journals, culminating findings for republishing.
Well at least you can admit when you're wrong. Acetic acid is not an AHA and so all your studies you showed about AHAs do not apply to acetic acid. Secondly, I can find many research articles showing how benzoly peroxide is effective against acne and glycolic acid and AHAs are good for red marks.
NONE ABOUT ACETIC ACID. That says it all. :boohoo:
So let's be honest about this thread. People should stop wasting their time putting vinegar on their faces and more time putting vinegar in their foods.
Using an AHA, not vinegar, in the form of a peel or lotion will be far more effective in healing red marks then putting on lemon juice, orange juice, yogurt, strawberry, salt or vinegar ever will. Food is meant to be eaten so we should keep it like that.
Well at least you can admit when you're wrong. Acetic acid is not an AHA and so all your studies you showed about AHAs do not apply to acetic acid.
Tap, ACV contains malic acid which IS an AHA... wikipedia if you don't believe me (though the concentration is pretty low in ACV... it's still there). Just so's you know... I mentioned that before but it keeps getting skipped over. You are correct that acetic acid is not an AHA, which is probably why nobody's advocated using plain white vinegar here...
Also the main argument behind this treatment is not just the AHA argument but also the fact that the pH of ACV means that it discourages bacterial growth and doesn't disrupt the "acid mantle" of skin.
You are right, salicylic and glycolic acid peels, as well as citric acid (which has a different mechanism of action) would all achieve faster results than an ACV toner. However, a lot of people don't like using peels, so this is the option that appeals... heh, pardon the pun.
So let's be honest about this thread. People should stop wasting their time putting vinegar on their faces and more time putting vinegar in their foods.
Using an AHA, not vinegar, in the form of a peel or lotion will be far more effective in healing red marks then putting on lemon juice, orange juice, yogurt, strawberry, salt or vinegar ever will. Food is meant to be eaten so we should keep it like that.
"please point out a source that says acetic acid is an alpha hydroxy acid. My sources say glycolic acid, lactic acid, citric acid, and a few others are the AHAs."
Ok, acetic acid probably wouldn't technically be classed as a strict 'alpha' hydroxy acid, because it (in it's base form) doesn't have a hydroxy group on the alpha carbon. However, in solution, there will be an equilibrium reached where you will indeed have the hydroxylated species, which interchanges at will with the non-hydroxylated species. So, technically no it's not an AHA on paper, but in solution it will act as one. I stand corrected. At least 3 of the references I gave seem happy to use the term AHA as a blanket to cover the acids, including acetic. It's like saying "a car isn't a car if it doesn't have wheels on".....sort of.
"please point out sources where ACETIC ACID specifically helps red marks"
There is nothing quite that specific out there (or at least with the 5 min search I did). Generally you'll find that Journal articles will group several compounds together because they all act in a similar way....and it would be pointless and unduly expensive to home in on just one sub-species. In my experience, it is very rare that you'll find any one article that will answer all your questions, and especially one so specific.. Journal searching is a science in itself.....in fact some researchers make a living just reseraching journals, culminating findings for republishing.
Well at least you can admit when you're wrong. Acetic acid is not an AHA and so all your studies you showed about AHAs do not apply to acetic acid. Secondly, I can find many research articles showing how benzoly peroxide is effective against acne and glycolic acid and AHAs are good for red marks.
NONE ABOUT ACETIC ACID. That says it all. :boohoo:
So let's be honest about this thread. People should stop wasting their time putting vinegar on their faces and more time putting vinegar in their foods.
Using an AHA, not vinegar, in the form of a peel or lotion will be far more effective in healing red marks then putting on lemon juice, orange juice, yogurt, strawberry, salt or vinegar ever will. Food is meant to be eaten so we should keep it like that.
If AHA is so efficient, then please explain to me why I saw absolutely no improvement of red marks after 2 years daily use of this:
http://www.zirh.com/product.aspx?f=8
"ZIRH PROTECT FACE MOISTURIZER
A moisturizer that fights the negative effects of free radicals from environmental pollution and sun damage. With the anti-oxidant powerhouse PycnogenolA, PROTECT slows the appearance of aging and improves your skinas texture and elasticity. Also includes Alpha Hydroxy Acids. PROTECT is ideal for normal to oily skin.
Key ingredients: Avocado Oil, Chamomile Extract, Comfrey Extract, Glycolic Acid, Hyaluronic Acid, Lactic Acid, Malic Acid, PycnogenolA, Vitamin A, Vitamin E"
It's packed with your highly endorsed AHA's and other nice things, yet I saw no change whatsoever in terms of redmarks left from acne.
An then I began using ACV as a toner. After 3 weeks on the ACV regimen I can see a noticeable change in the appearance of redmarks; a 30-40% reduction in color and size. All my redmarks were the size of the eraser of a pencil before I began using ACV.
A coincidence? Maybe, but I think not!
Well at least you can admit when you're wrong.
😀 I enjoy being wrong several times per day. That's one of the great benefits of being a scientist. We're often told that we're closed minded and not open to belief systems. That's incorrect, scientists are some of the most open minded people on the planet. We have to be willing to change our minds when new evidence presents itself.
I remain confident that acetic acid can act as an AHA even though it is not one. You tend to get these little inconsistencies in organic chemistry.
Acetic acid is not an AHA and so all your studies you showed about AHAs do not apply to acetic acid.
Like I said, at least three four of the articles looked at acetic acid in conjunction with other acids.
Here's a quote from one:
"Alpha-hydroxy acid (AHA) agents, such as glycolic acid and lactic acid, have been used as therapeutic agents for more than a quarter of a century. Recently, they have been used as agents to rejuvenate photo-aged skin. It is believed that these AHA agents induce the epidermis to remodel and accelerate desquamation, thus exerting their therapeutic effects. In this study, we investigated the histological differences in skin treated with glycolic, lactic, citric and acetic acids once daily for 6 weeks."
YAMAMOTO, Yuki, UEDE, Koji, YONEI, Nozomi, KISHIOKA, Akiko, OHTANI, Toshio & FURUKAWA, Fukumi (2006) Effects of alpha-hydroxy acids on the human skin of Japanese subjects: The rationale for chemical peeling. Journal of Dermatology 33 (1), 16-22.
Which, it looks like I missed out of the original list....
Anyway, they conclude that the glycolic and lactic acids are more effective than citric and acetic....which we knew anyway. They find that there is significant histological difference with all the acids though.
NONE ABOUT ACETIC ACID. That says it all. :boohoo:
Which one is the 'touche' emoticon?
Using an AHA, not vinegar, in the form of a peel or lotion will be far more effective in healing red marks then putting on lemon juice, orange juice, yogurt, strawberry, salt or vinegar ever will. Food is meant to be eaten so we should keep it like that.
😆 I can think of lots of things to do with strawberry yoghurt besides eating it. :redface:
lol, sorry.
Anyway, that's the last I'm gonna say on the subject. :shhh:
I noticed that i get whiteheads more and more often but the redness fades away with ACV
Ya me too! I have been using ACV as toner for about 2 weeks and red marks are fading faster but getting lots of whiteheads near my nose and chin....skin texture is good, just whiteheads popping out fast! Does anyone know why??
Whoever is here spittin out science thats fine and all but let actual results from people on here matter moreso than what you beleive .. I used an AHA for nearly 5 months along with my regimen earlier this year and saw no reduction in my marks whatsoever.. I'm still in the early stages of the ACV but at least this stuff keeps my skin oil free and makes it feel nice, not to mention I think its already helping marks although it really is too early to tell.
How can it be wrong if so many people are having good results with it? Just my opinion. Personally I think there is alot of Natural stuff in this world that benfits us way more then what the drug companies try and sell us. I do alot of homepathic stuff, to me the baking soda and ACV and the egg masks is just another form of natural "medicine"
SP, I had 3 or 4 blackheads on my chin, They are gone. They came off just like they did for you after using the ACV. I thought that was pretty cool, never had them come off that easy before.
I noticed that i get whiteheads more and more often but the redness fades away with ACV
Ya me too! I have been using ACV as toner for about 2 weeks and red marks are fading faster but getting lots of whiteheads near my nose and chin....skin texture is good, just whiteheads popping out fast! Does anyone know why??
If this stuff does indeed act like an Aha and exfoliate your skin I'd imagine its just getting your clogged pores or acne out from under. Since I've been using it alot of my blackheads have been coming out which I guess is a good sign O_O
"please point out a source that says acetic acid is an alpha hydroxy acid. My sources say glycolic acid, lactic acid, citric acid, and a few others are the AHAs."
Ok, acetic acid probably wouldn't technically be classed as a strict 'alpha' hydroxy acid, because it (in it's base form) doesn't have a hydroxy group on the alpha carbon. However, in solution, there will be an equilibrium reached where you will indeed have the hydroxylated species, which interchanges at will with the non-hydroxylated species. So, technically no it's not an AHA on paper, but in solution it will act as one. I stand corrected. At least 3 of the references I gave seem happy to use the term AHA as a blanket to cover the acids, including acetic. It's like saying "a car isn't a car if it doesn't have wheels on".....sort of.
"please point out sources where ACETIC ACID specifically helps red marks"
There is nothing quite that specific out there (or at least with the 5 min search I did). Generally you'll find that Journal articles will group several compounds together because they all act in a similar way....and it would be pointless and unduly expensive to home in on just one sub-species. In my experience, it is very rare that you'll find any one article that will answer all your questions, and especially one so specific.. Journal searching is a science in itself.....in fact some researchers make a living just reseraching journals, culminating findings for republishing.
Well at least you can admit when you're wrong. Acetic acid is not an AHA and so all your studies you showed about AHAs do not apply to acetic acid. Secondly, I can find many research articles showing how benzoly peroxide is effective against acne and glycolic acid and AHAs are good for red marks.
NONE ABOUT ACETIC ACID. That says it all. :boohoo:
So let's be honest about this thread. People should stop wasting their time putting vinegar on their faces and more time putting vinegar in their foods.
Using an AHA, not vinegar, in the form of a peel or lotion will be far more effective in healing red marks then putting on lemon juice, orange juice, yogurt, strawberry, salt or vinegar ever will. Food is meant to be eaten so we should keep it like that.
okay first of all she said it ACTS as one..which means it does/behaves in the EXACT same thing/way
also my sister who is a biochemist agrees with nhsbiomed. :boohoo:
and again, do you honestly think benzyol peroxide had hundreds of articles and its relation to acne when people first started using it? i think not...however did that mean it doesnt work? i think not.
and lastly, id take results over articles anyday. im using it, and my skin has never looked better. Its funny how you make opinions on all of those things you have probably never tried... mabye u shuld go to ACV and come back and then make an opinion...that would only be the wise thing to do.