Acne.org Products
Now, people, before 'Tap' even responds, I can guarantee three things:
1) he (she?) will criticise the use of my MESH search terms. He will pick up on the fact that none of these articles contain the words "Apple Cider Vinegar".
2) he will continue to adopt the logical fallacy 'cum hoc ergo propter hoc'....no scientific data = ACV doesn't work.
3) he will criticise the poor generic referencing system I used. E-v-e-r-y-o-n-e uses Harvard, you're sooo passe'. 😆
However,
1) The acetic acid in ACV is a well documented alpha-hydroxy acid. It is totally fesible that other AHAs will have a more positive effect on the skin, and others a lesser effect. I'm fairly certain that it is the pH aspect of the ACV that causes it to lessen red marks (I personally have seen improvements too).....I could make up a weak HCl solution in my lab which would most likely have the same effect as ACV. ACV is an acid at a certain pH, this is why it works. If you want scientific references, then you'll have to accept the scientific terminology. 'ACV' is not the scientific term, AHA is.
2) Believe it or not, we are genetically succeptible to certain fallacies. This is one of them. Just because a scientist hasn't studied something DOESN'T MEAN IT DOESN'T HAPPEN!!! How many times? Did gravity not exist before Newton put pen to paper?
3) I'm in the middle of a 15,000 word Masters degree dissertation on the effect of Lithium Heparin on proportional systematic error in chemistry photocolourimetry and nephelometry....I'M SICK OF BLUDDY HARVARD!!! LOL
Pick on someone your own size. :rolleyes:
==============
I'm a registered clincial biomedical scientist in chemical pathology for the NHS in England.
Well, I haven't had time to visit the site for awhile so I couldn't respond. First off, I agree that alpha hydroxy acids are good for you and know that research has backed it up. I use glycolic acid myself which I believe has been proven to be better than vinegar.
My issue is, could you please point out a source that says acetic acid is an alpha hydroxy acid. My sources say glycolic acid, lactic acid, citric acid, and a few others are the AHAs.
In addition, nhsbiomed, please point out sources where ACETIC ACID specifically helps red marks and not just the efficacy of AHAs in general. Even if acetic acid is an AHA, I am not sure if it is an effective AHA as you alluded to. In fact, I highly doubt it is. Acetic acid is a weak acid and comparing it to HCL which is a strong acid is ludicrous. If you want to put HCL on your face be my guest because you will probably burn your face off.
To all other responses, personal experiences are highly biased and seriously flawed. Only scientific research can really prove how effective vinegar can be.
I only give an opposing opinion because quacks out there will feed you anything if you're vulnerable. It's kind of like how they sell pills on TV that claim they can cure cancer. IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT. Science is all we have to separate the fallacies from the truths and I do not believe there is any research that suggests vinegar can help old acne spots.
Now, people, before 'Tap' even responds, I can guarantee three things:
1) he (she?) will criticise the use of my MESH search terms. He will pick up on the fact that none of these articles contain the words "Apple Cider Vinegar".
2) he will continue to adopt the logical fallacy 'cum hoc ergo propter hoc'....no scientific data = ACV doesn't work.
3) he will criticise the poor generic referencing system I used. E-v-e-r-y-o-n-e uses Harvard, you're sooo passe'. 😆
However,
1) The acetic acid in ACV is a well documented alpha-hydroxy acid. It is totally fesible that other AHAs will have a more positive effect on the skin, and others a lesser effect. I'm fairly certain that it is the pH aspect of the ACV that causes it to lessen red marks (I personally have seen improvements too).....I could make up a weak HCl solution in my lab which would most likely have the same effect as ACV. ACV is an acid at a certain pH, this is why it works. If you want scientific references, then you'll have to accept the scientific terminology. 'ACV' is not the scientific term, AHA is.
2) Believe it or not, we are genetically succeptible to certain fallacies. This is one of them. Just because a scientist hasn't studied something DOESN'T MEAN IT DOESN'T HAPPEN!!! How many times? Did gravity not exist before Newton put pen to paper?
3) I'm in the middle of a 15,000 word Masters degree dissertation on the effect of Lithium Heparin on proportional systematic error in chemistry photocolourimetry and nephelometry....I'M SICK OF BLUDDY HARVARD!!! LOL
Pick on someone your own size. :rolleyes:
==============
I'm a registered clincial biomedical scientist in chemical pathology for the NHS in England.
Well, I haven't had time to visit the site for awhile so I couldn't respond. First off, I agree that alpha hydroxy acids are good for you and know that research has backed it up. I use glycolic acid myself which I believe has been proven to be better than vinegar.
My issue is, could you please point out a source that says acetic acid is an alpha hydroxy acid. My sources say glycolic acid, lactic acid, citric acid, and a few others are the AHAs.
In addition, nhsbiomed, please point out sources where ACETIC ACID specifically helps red marks and not just the efficacy of AHAs in general. Even if acetic acid is an AHA, I am not sure if it is an effective AHA as you alluded to. In fact, I highly doubt it is. Acetic acid is a weak acid and comparing it to HCL which is a strong acid is ludicrous. If you want to put HCL on your face be my guest because you will probably burn your face off.
To all other responses, personal experiences are highly biased and seriously flawed. Only scientific research can really prove how effective vinegar can be.
I only give an opposing opinion because quacks out there will feed you anything if you're vulnerable. It's kind of like how they sell pills on TV that claim they can cure cancer. IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT. Science is all we have to separate the fallacies from the truths and I do not believe there is any research that suggests vinegar can help old acne spots.
Acetic acid isn't an AHA and it's not the AHA in ACV... ACV has malic acid and malic acid is the AHA... acetic acid is a weak acid... (side note: HCl significantly low concentration won't hurt your face... but it's not an AHA either, it's a strong acid as opposed to a weak acid, meaning it's not useful as a buffer... it's interesting because hydrofluoric acid is a weak acid and all the other hydrogen+halide acids are basically as strong as they get, but I digress) Acetic acid is a carboxylic acid but it's not a hydroxy acid... In ACV's case the malic acid is what helps your skin and the acetic acid is what makes it smell like shit and act as a good buffer.
Acetic acid has other properties that make it good in this mixture, but the malic acid is the hydroxy acid of significance in ACV, that's why regular rice vinegar won't work, because the malic acid comes from the apples.
Ok, gonna try to get these worms back in the can.
"Aspirin is NOT salicylic acid"
Correct. Aspirin is the trademark name for the compound, acetylsalicylic acid.....which readily converts to salicylic acid. So if you take an aspirin, you are in fact putting salicylic acid into your body.
"dissolving aspirin will NOT turn it into pure salicylic acid, which is what I said"
Why would you want 'pure' SA? Even at the finest reference laboratories they'd struggle to crystalise 'pure' 100% SA. It just doesn't happen....there are always impurities with these sort of reactions. However, you WILL liberate a significant ammount of SA by dissolving an aspirin tablet or two.
"this reaction would not produce nearly as much salicylic acid as aspirin dissolved in pure water"
Irrelevent. SA is still liberated. Ok then, throw three tablets in there. Better still, dissolve them in 'pure' water first, and dilute the ACV with that. Equilibrium will be reached where SA exists for topical use.
"please point out a source that says acetic acid is an alpha hydroxy acid. My sources say glycolic acid, lactic acid, citric acid, and a few others are the AHAs."
Ok, acetic acid probably wouldn't technically be classed as a strict 'alpha' hydroxy acid, because it (in it's base form) doesn't have a hydroxy group on the alpha carbon. However, in solution, there will be an equilibrium reached where you will indeed have the hydroxylated species, which interchanges at will with the non-hydroxylated species. So, technically no it's not an AHA on paper, but in solution it will act as one. I stand corrected. At least 3 of the references I gave seem happy to use the term AHA as a blanket to cover the acids, including acetic. It's like saying "a car isn't a car if it doesn't have wheels on".....sort of.
"please point out sources where ACETIC ACID specifically helps red marks"
There is nothing quite that specific out there (or at least with the 5 min search I did). Generally you'll find that Journal articles will group several compounds together because they all act in a similar way....and it would be pointless and unduly expensive to home in on just one sub-species. In my experience, it is very rare that you'll find any one article that will answer all your questions, and especially one so specific.. Journal searching is a science in itself.....in fact some researchers make a living just reseraching journals, culminating findings for republishing.
Still, the 'cum hoc ergo propter hoc' fallacy still stands. Not having data on something means the book is still open for interpretation. If it were the other way round and there was data saying acetic acid DOES NOT WORK, then I'd quite happily accept that. Otherwise, I'm open on the subject.
"Acetic acid is a weak acid and comparing it to HCL which is a strong acid"
This is very bad science. It is very easy to make a weak solution of HCl, it just needs diluting down sufficiently. I do this at work daily. In the same way, it would be very easy to make a strong solution of acetic acid, which is called 'glacial' acetic acid. I used to use this at university and it is evil stuff. Acids have a sliding scale of how 'acidic' they are depending on their concentration.
If you ever add salt to water, HCl is produced....albeit in very small ammounts. Compounds like this are ubiquitous in nature.
"If you want to put HCL on your face be my guest"
There is HCl on my face now. As there is on yours too....and on all those people who sweat. Salt in your sweat will react with water to form very very weak HCl.
"To all other responses, personal experiences are highly biased and seriously flawed. Only scientific research can really prove how effective vinegar can be."
True, I'm in total agreement. However, this is a forum of every-day people posting their experiences with acne and different treatments. It's totally fine in this environment to say "hey x really works for me"....without someone asking for extensive scientific references demonstrating effiacy. That is reserved for true scientific study. For example In my current research project I have (so far) referenced 78 other journal articles demonstrating facts that I am using in argument of my own research....it would not be accepted as scientific research without it. However this is simply a discussion about something someone put on their face once and they thought it did them some good.
Anyway in closing, I think all this talk of AHAs is fairly irrelevent. In my opinion, I think ACV works because of the pH of the stuff, nothing else. I'm not a skin scientist so I can't make educated claims about if it works or not, I'm going to rely solely on my experience with using ACV. I say ACV works for me......but I could be 100% wrong and it's just coincidence.
==============
I'm a registered clincial biomedical scientist in chemical pathology for the NHS in England.
Tap, ACV does work not only because it is an AHA ( because if that was the case well I doubt it would work as good I have tried AHA'a like glycolic and well they suck IMO), but ACV has many benefits because of the nutrients it has (vitamins, minerals, won't find that in neutrogena lotions) and because it is acidic which rarely anything is (::shrugs:: makes no sense for ppl to make everything alkaline, knowing it is bad for our skin) and being acidic brings our skin back to it's original state, the "acid mantle" which since you started puberty your body has been trying so hard to keep intact but because we use alkaline soaps, washes etc. on our faces our skin must go into overdrive and try to create this skin barrier. But, as all of us know usually it is too late and what forms while our skin is unprotected ACNE! This is why all of us have it, my theory is if people knew about the "acid mantle" used more balanced products and ACV as a toner everyday than people wouldn't be suffering to the severity that most are. Now, people will always have acne because seeing as we do use alkaline products bacteria can still find it's way to our skin, but atleast if you are using ACV everyday and hopefully more than once your skin will be much better protected and able to fight against acne. Does this make sense? If you do not believe that such a thing exists "acid mantle" do some research yourself like I did, because it most certainly does, just msot of us do not know it does. Now, Tap you wanted scientific evidence well there you go. ACV balances out the pH of our skin hence skin cna spend more time healing rather than working over time. That is why our redmarks heal much quicker with ACV and because of the AHA in it and nutrients.
ACV + BP excellent match because using ACV before BP will prepare your skin for the BP and give your skin and xtra protect layer so that bacteria cannot enter. The BP which we all know put oxygen into our pores and bacteria cannot live in oxygen. BP will kil any abcteria left on our face that ACV wasn't able to destroy. So now you have BP working in the skin while ACV protects outside the skin with that layer. I ahve been doing this most night and I notice the night I use both my skin improves tremendously. I use ACV as many times as I can during the day to protect my face from bacteria and so my skin can heal.
Ok, gonna try to get these worms back in the can.
"Aspirin is NOT salicylic acid"
Correct. Aspirin is the trademark name for the compound, acetylsalicylic acid.....which readily converts to salicylic acid. So if you take an aspirin, you are in fact putting salicylic acid into your body.
"dissolving aspirin will NOT turn it into pure salicylic acid, which is what I said"
Why would you want 'pure' SA? Even at the finest reference laboratories they'd struggle to crystalise 'pure' 100% SA. It just doesn't happen....there are always impurities with these sort of reactions. However, you WILL liberate a significant ammount of SA by dissolving an aspirin tablet or two.
"this reaction would not produce nearly as much salicylic acid as aspirin dissolved in pure water"
Irrelevent. SA is still liberated. Ok then, throw three tablets in there. Better still, dissolve them in 'pure' water first, and dilute the ACV with that. Equilibrium will be reached where SA exists for topical use.
"please point out a source that says acetic acid is an alpha hydroxy acid. My sources say glycolic acid, lactic acid, citric acid, and a few others are the AHAs."
Ok, acetic acid probably wouldn't technically be classed as a strict 'alpha' hydroxy acid, because it (in it's base form) doesn't have a hydroxy group on the alpha carbon. However, in solution, there will be an equilibrium reached where you will indeed have the hydroxylated species, which interchanges at will with the non-hydroxylated species. So, technically no it's not an AHA on paper, but in solution it will act as one. I stand corrected. At least 3 of the references I gave seem happy to use the term AHA as a blanket to cover the acids, including acetic. It's like saying "a car isn't a car if it doesn't have wheels on".....sort of.
"please point out sources where ACETIC ACID specifically helps red marks"
There is nothing quite that specific out there (or at least with the 5 min search I did). Generally you'll find that Journal articles will group several compounds together because they all act in a similar way....and it would be pointless and unduly expensive to home in on just one sub-species. In my experience, it is very rare that you'll find any one article that will answer all your questions, and especially one so specific.. Journal searching is a science in itself.....in fact some researchers make a living just reseraching journals, culminating findings for republishing.
Still, the 'cum hoc ergo propter hoc' fallacy still stands. Not having data on something means the book is still open for interpretation. If it were the other way round and there was data saying acetic acid DOES NOT WORK, then I'd quite happily accept that. Otherwise, I'm open on the subject.
"Acetic acid is a weak acid and comparing it to HCL which is a strong acid"
This is very bad science. It is very easy to make a weak solution of HCl, it just needs diluting down sufficiently. I do this at work daily. In the same way, it would be very easy to make a strong solution of acetic acid, which is called 'glacial' acetic acid. I used to use this at university and it is evil stuff. Acids have a sliding scale of how 'acidic' they are depending on their concentration.
If you ever add salt to water, HCl is produced....albeit in very small ammounts. Compounds like this are ubiquitous in nature.
"If you want to put HCL on your face be my guest"
There is HCl on my face now. As there is on yours too....and on all those people who sweat. Salt in your sweat will react with water to form very very weak HCl.
"To all other responses, personal experiences are highly biased and seriously flawed. Only scientific research can really prove how effective vinegar can be."
True, I'm in total agreement. However, this is a forum of every-day people posting their experiences with acne and different treatments. It's totally fine in this environment to say "hey x really works for me"....without someone asking for extensive scientific references demonstrating effiacy. That is reserved for true scientific study. For example In my current research project I have (so far) referenced 78 other journal articles demonstrating facts that I am using in argument of my own research....it would not be accepted as scientific research without it. However this is simply a discussion about something someone put on their face once and they thought it did them some good.
Anyway in closing, I think all this talk of AHAs is fairly irrelevent. In my opinion, I think ACV works because of the pH of the stuff, nothing else. I'm not a skin scientist so I can't make educated claims about if it works or not, I'm going to rely solely on my experience with using ACV. I say ACV works for me......but I could be 100% wrong and it's just coincidence.
==============
I'm a registered clincial biomedical scientist in chemical pathology for the NHS in England.
Wow you have just lost all your credibility with me... If you don't know the difference between dillute HCl and concentrated CH3COOH then I don't know... It's basic general chemistry... And glacial acetic acid is far different than the acetic acid present in vinegar (hence its monstrous properties)... glacial acetic acid is manufactured from a very controlled chemical reaction (burning wood, oddly enough...) and is highly purified and concentrated.
Now go read the second of my posts you responded to... aspirin and salicylic acid have different pharmacological mechanisms of action when applied topically... an "aspirin mask" will reduce inflammation, and a salicylic acid solution will exfoliate, so I don't see why we're arguing this... You still have failed to point out anything that's actually incorrect in my posts...
For all who are interested, the difference between a "weak acid" (like acetic acid and most organic acids) and a "strong acid" (like HCl or H2SO4--sulfuric acid) it has nothing to do with the relative pH of the acids. A strong acid will be a strong acid even when it's at a higher pH (from being dilluted). It has to do with the relative amounts of protons that are produced in the solution... HCl will readily dissociate (the H+ and Cl- ions separate in the solution) almost completely, whereas acetic acid tends to dissociate much less... hence the pH of equimolar solutions of HCl and CH3COOH will render different pHs... the HCl will be a much lower pH. Putting 1.0M HCl on your face is far different than putting 1.0M acetic acid on your face... strong acids are very reactive in solution. For what it's worth, malic acid (the alpha hydroxy acid in apple cider vinegar) is also a weak acid.
If you're going to argue the chemical merits of ACV, at least get your facts straight.
I think we've thoroghly exhausted the scientific debate/malarchy here, let's let the folks who are using the stuff continue to share their experiences. From everything I've read and understand, ACV seems to be a good treatment when applied topically... I haven't seen much that indicates that the benefits of oral administration outweigh the potential damage to tooth enamel and the gastrointestinal tract. It's like throwing up in reverse to drink it... it'll damage your esophagal lining eventually (though not as fast as throwing up... because stomach acid is HCl--strong acid... see? Chemistry is neat.)
I modified my regimen after a small break out (i'm clear once again)... what do you all think?
Morning:
1. Facial Cleanser w/ 20% Glycolic compound [ complex, pH-balanced mixture of glycolic acid, ammonium glycolate, purified water, and higher-molecular-weight oligomers of glycolic acid, with an approximate activity level of 60%]
2. Vitamin C Serum
Late afternoon (3 o clock ish)
1. Vitamin C Serum
Night
1. Facial Cleanser (same as above)
2. ACV
3. AHA Enhanced Lotion - Contains 10% pure Glycolic-AHA.
I modified my regimen after a small break out (i fixed it 🙂 )... what do you all think?Morning:
1. Facial Cleanser w/ 20% Glycolic compound [ complex, pH-balanced mixture of glycolic acid, ammonium glycolate, purified water, and higher-molecular-weight oligomers of glycolic acid, with an approximate activity level of 60%]
2. Vitamin C Serum
Late afternoon (3 o clock ish)
1. Vitamin C Serum
Night
1. Facial Cleanser (same as above)
2. ACV
3. AHA Enhanced Lotion - Contains 10% pure Glycolic-AHA.
hmm :think: IMO looks like you have wayy to many AHA's I understand your intentions because you want them gone, so you figure the stronger the solutions and the more I add will help right? Not exactly. I was doing the same as you and I lost the skin barrier that retains moisture so my skin became dull and dehydrated. Since I stopped and only use ACV + BP + Moisturizer my skin has improved say 80% or 85% it still looks a little dehydrated but it has life in it, unike before. So just be careful. If I were you, use up the glycolic cleanser, then your AHA moisturizer and ocne those two are done then add Vitamin C and ACV. I would keep it ph Balanced Wash + Vitamin C + ACV + Moisturizer
it'll be awhile before the facial cleanser is gone. i bought the aha for my back. the cleanser and vitamin c were recommended by my dermatologist. i'll just do cleanser, ACV, vitamin c in that order. how does that sound? i usually never go out so i dont mess with moisturizer.
it'll be awhile before the facial cleanser is gone. i bought the aha for my back. the cleanser and vitamin c were recommended by my dermatologist. i'll just do cleanser, ACV, vitamin c in that order. how does that sound? i usually never go out so i dont mess with moisturizer.
that sounds better but once ur glycolic wash runs out I suggest switching to something xtra gentle like baby shampoo or wash.
Anyone noticing this? I have no blackheads, the ACV seems to be pushging them out because when I get out of the shower all I have to do is take a towel rub my nose gently and they all come out, pretty cool huh. So anyone experiencing this?
oh i've been hoping and praying that that would happen to me, but it hasn't. my blackheads are incredibly stubborn
Anyone noticing this? I have no blackheads, the ACV seems to be pushging them out because when I get out of the shower all I have to do is take a towel rub my nose gently and they all come out, pretty cool huh. So anyone experiencing this?
oh i've been hoping and praying that that would happen to me, but it hasn't. my blackheads are incredibly stubborn
try manually exfoliating them out. Once they are gone they should stay gone seeing as you don't have oily skin anymore. I use a pedicure brush .. haven't had to use it in a month though since ACV. But what I do is let the brush soak for 15min in hot water. Then lather it up in a gentle wash and rub it in all different directions over my face .. in your case where the blackheads are.
oh yeah, and all this scientific reasoning is really interesting. thanks shmelis and nhsbiomed!
Anyone noticing this? I have no blackheads, the ACV seems to be pushging them out because when I get out of the shower all I have to do is take a towel rub my nose gently and they all come out, pretty cool huh. So anyone experiencing this?
oh i've been hoping and praying that that would happen to me, but it hasn't. my blackheads are incredibly stubborn
Shmelis is jumping on the bandwagon! Congratulations to all y'all on convincing the cynic who has tried everything that this is worth trying (the fact that it was a little more than $3 for the supplies tipped me over the edge)!
Just bought a small bottle of ACV, and some cotton balls. I must say I wasn't quite prepared for the smell... it was worse than I expected, but after putting it on my face and letting it dry I can't smell it anymore... just hoping my boyfriend doesn't notice it. I'm using a topical retinoid at night, so I'll use a 50% dillution of the ACV in the mornings and afternoons. My skin has been oily and red lately, so I'm hoping the ACV will help with that while the topical retinoid does its magic on my acne.
Shmelis is jumping on the bandwagon! Congratulations to all y'all on convincing the cynic who has tried everything that this is worth trying!Just bought a small bottle of ACV, and some cotton balls. I must say I wasn't quite prepared for the smell... it was worse than I expected, but after putting it on my face and letting it dry I can't smell it anymore... just hoping my boyfriend doesn't notice it. I'm using a topical retinoid at night, so I'll use a 50% dillution of the ACV in the mornings and afternoons. My skin has been oily and red lately, so I'm hoping the ACV will help with that while the topical retinoid does its magic on my acne.
😀
:dance: If your skin has been red it sounds irritated like you scrubbed it, maybe it is the reinoid :think:
:dance: If your skin has been red it sounds irritated like you scrubbed it, maybe it is the reinoid :think:
Yeah, the retinoid was making me a little dry and red (hence why I've been reluctant to use anything else on my skin) but it's supposed to do that... I have fair, sensetive skin so it's nothing unexpected, and it should stop in a few weeks (I'm on week 6 of treatment... takes 7 to work so they say). I haven't been scrubbing it, though. Everything I do is in my signature.
Wish me luck!
Wow. I've been using ACV for only 6 hours and the look and condition of my skin looks so much better! And my red marks don't look as "angry" as usual. Thank you so much SmashingPumpkins!!
I just have one question though. Is it okay to use SA ontop after the ACV has dried?
hi smashingpumpkins
even i have started using ACV and now my face is not at all oily ....i see an improvement in the skin texture but i dont see any improvement in the red marks....actually my red marks are not very old...15 days back, i had around 22 pimples on my chin and a few on my forehead(my PMS was this bad after almost 6 mths)..they r gone now but have left lots of red marks as i normally get cystic acne....so i really dont know how much do i need to wait to c any improvement...may b a week or more....btw i'm using 50:50, ACV:water......
i havent made the toner yet, the one with aspirins....but i use salicylic acid and baking soda too...wat do u think i'm doing wrong??? pls suggest something as i desperately want to c improvement in my red marks......
Hey Smashing Pumpkins I have a question..
Would doing this benfit my skin? I have senstive skin that gets a little oily later on going towards the evening time. I get break outs in hurty papules on my cheeks(like between 3-5), as well they leave red marks, always. I know at the moment I am on meds, so I can't do it at the moment, sadly..it'd be to irritating, to much for my skin to handle.. But I am really interested, in doing it after active acne for keeping it away and healing my marks. Do I have to add a asprin tablet in the acv mixture, or just how it is? Thanks a bunch, I am really hoping that this will work for me. I'll keep my eyes open on this topic. 
Wow you have just lost all your credibility with me...
Lol. Well I'll try to get on with life the best I can.
If you don't know the difference between dillute HCl and concentrated CH3COOH then I don't know...
I do know. One more time....
10M HCl = ph -1........STRONGLY acidic
0.00000001M HCl = pH 6.98..........WEAKLY acidic.
They're both the same type of acid (HCl) but one solution is STRONG the other is WEAK.
Putting 0.00000001M HCl on your face will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
I'm not sure if I can make that any simpler.
You correctly point out that at the same concentration HCl and Acetic acid will have different pH values. And you are also correct in saying that this is why they are termed 'Strong' acid and 'Weak' acid, respectively. And you also aluded to the different dissociation constants, which was lovely :wub: .
HOWEVER, that doesn't automatically mean that ALL solutions of HCl will burn your skin off. Weak solutions will NOT, despite HCl being a 'strong acid'.
Personally, I think the terms 'STRONG ACID' and 'WEAK ACID' are misleading. If you ask joe public which is more dangerous; HCl or Acetic acid.....everyone will definately say HCl. No-one will say "well, it depends on the concentration of each". People know HCl is a 'strong' acid, and jump to the incorrect conclusion that it is somehow dangerous no matter what state it's in.
I think a better term is DISSOCIATIVE.
"HCl is a highly dissociative acid, acetic acid is.....not"
lol
so I don't see why we're arguing this...
I was pointing out that there IS salicylic acid content in aspirin, stabalised with an acetyl group. Salicylic acid re-forms with exposure to water.
I think this discussion has turned into one of semantics, so it's probably best to let it drop.
I think we've thoroghly exhausted the scientific debate/malarchy here, let's let the folks who are using the stuff continue to share their experiences.
Good idea.
...Chemistry is neat.
Lol, damn right. 😆 You want to study inferential statistics! I'd love to argue with you about the relative merits of Weighted Deming regression vs Passing & Bablock regression. It'd be a m-e-s-s!
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I'm a registered clincial biomedical scientist in chemical pathology for the NHS in England.
:dance: If your skin has been red it sounds irritated like you scrubbed it, maybe it is the reinoid :think:
Yeah, the retinoid was making me a little dry and red (hence why I've been reluctant to use anything else on my skin) but it's supposed to do that... I have fair, sensetive skin so it's nothing unexpected, and it should stop in a few weeks (I'm on week 6 of treatment... takes 7 to work so they say). I haven't been scrubbing it, though. Everything I do is in my signature.
Wish me luck!
Retinoids do you for your skin, isn't a Retinoid like Green Cream? A high dose of Vitamin A? I do use a Gel every now and again that is Retinyl Palmitate and I know that is a high dose of Vitamin A.
Wow. I've been using ACV for only 6 hours and the look and condition of my skin looks so much better! And my red marks don't look as "angry" as usual. Thank you so much SmashingPumpkins!!😀 :wub: 😎
I just have one question though. Is it okay to use SA ontop after the ACV has dried?
Well hmmm that is a tough one. I know there has been alot of discussion about SA and aspirin. I did some reading and alot of people put 3 aspirin into their ACV toner because supposedly the aspirin will act like SA also reducing inflammation. You could try that instead, sounds safer. So it would be like using ACV and the aspirin mask all at once 🙂
hi smashingpumpkinseven i have started using ACV and now my face is not at all oily ....i see an improvement in the skin texture but i dont see any improvement in the red marks....actually my red marks are not very old...15 days back, i had around 22 pimples on my chin and a few on my forehead(my PMS was this bad after almost 6 mths)..they r gone now but have left lots of red marks as i normally get cystic acne....so i really dont know how much do i need to wait to c any improvement...may b a week or more....btw i'm using 50:50, ACV:water......
i havent made the toner yet, the one with aspirins....but i use salicylic acid and baking soda too...wat do u think i'm doing wrong??? pls suggest something as i desperately want to c improvement in my red marks......
Use Baking Soda before the ACV toner and add 3 aspirin into the mix of your toner that will help any current acne. ACV is an alpha hydroxy acid so it will exfoliate your skin. I have actually notced blackheads being pushed to the surface since I started the regimen of ACV, so all I have to do after I get out fo the shower is rub my nose with a towel and they are all gone 🙂 I currently I have like maybe 5 blackheads 🙂
Use full strength ACV only at night seeing as your skin will have to get used to it for while. Or if you don't feel comfortable with thast right now because you don't want it to burn make a higher solution rather than 50/50 try 70/30. Try putting ACV on your face as often as possible. I think the more often you do it the better because it does wear off I am sure after awhile before of sweat, rubbing your face, lieing down etc. So maybe every two hours would be good. I try to put it on atleast 3x a day I think I am going to use it much more. The more you use it the faster you will see results, and it won't harm your skin seeing as it does balance the pH of your skin and it doesn't leave you feeling dry, although I do recommend a moisturizer because your skin does need alot of moisture to heal, well atleast I do seeing as my skin is dehydrated due to all the exfoliation I did 🙁 with Jessfoliation
Still using ACV twice a day, have noticed some improvements in the overall look of my skin. My face is a little less shiny, though it seems to be getting dry. Although, it could be the BP drying my skin, since I started using more recently.
seeing as you are using BP you probobly want to increase your solution of the ACV and more than 2x a day would be best atleast 3x a day. I found out the more often I used it the better my results are.
Now not all your redmarks will be gone in a week .. I have some on my chin which have plagued me for what off 4 or 5 years! They have faded to a pink but they are still there. I think it all depends on the severity of the pimple you had and how long they have been there in the first place. The ones I have gotten on my cheek are fading fast but the ones on my chin 🙁 it will probobly be a little while. But seeing as it reduces oil that makes up for it lol.
So, I've been using ACV for about a week or so now, and I am loving it! My skin tone has improved so much, my old red marks seem to be turning pink, and even though I still have to blot my face, it's not as oily as it was before.
I picked up a book at the local library called "Amazing Apple Cider Vinegar" - very interesting!
I also went and pick up ACV tablets (only $5) at the drugstore and it seems to have cut my appetite in half so I don't find myself snacking as much.
I'm still using the cheap ACV but I did pick up Organic ACV which I will start using when the cheap stuff is gone.
Now, I have all these face products sitting in my bathroom that cost me a fortune, which I don't even feel I need anymore! ACV has done wonders for me!