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13 hours ago, hatetane said:If anyone has contact with this guy can you let me know. Thanks
Excellent so most of us can feel reassured were on the right track right according to this!!
Clean up the liver
Hair mineral analysis ( high copper )
Do yoga & meditation
Work on getting quality sleep
Take minerals to rebalance body
Have good work/life balance
So for me it can only be the infrared saunas thats the difference between having depression and light sensitivity and dry skin and an aching body or having a great life, so simple, I know what to do next!!
This video explains the copper/Zinc relationship - finally someone explained it, fucken hell - how long did we spend on that little issue 2-3 years ago!!!
4 hours ago, TrueJustice said:Excellent so most of us can feel reassured were on the right track right according to this!!Clean up the liver
Hair mineral analysis ( high copper )
Do yoga & meditation
Work on getting quality sleep
Take minerals to rebalance body
Have good work/life balanceSo for me it can only be the infrared saunas thats the difference between having depression and light sensitivity and dry skin and an aching body or having a great life, so simple, I know what to do next!!
This video explains the copper/Zinc relationship - finally someone explained it, fucken hell - how long did we spend on that little issue 2-3 years ago!!!
He has said absolutely nothingto back up anything. His cure is all common knowledge stuff....its not going to remove accutane/ATRA from the liver or fat cells.
His explanation of copper/zinc is just internet re-hash. he has no clue about the actual levels. hair mineral analysis is quackery.
from every scientific paper iveread, vitamin A is antagonistic of copper. they are inversely correlated. We took shit tons of Vitamin A... how are we copper toxic?
Remember accutanewas a chemotherapy drug first that was shown to be much more effective when copper was limited.
....
This information indicates that any factor that antagonizes copper retention can be considered as having anti-viral properties. Those that are synergistic such as vitamin D, B1, B12, and B10, which enhance copper retention, can be considered as having anti-bacterial properties (see figure 1 and 2). As an example, vitamin A, which is considered to be an anti-infectious vitamin, can specifically be categorized as anti-viral. This is also true of vitamin C and zinc. However, zinc, vitamin C, and vitamin A are mutually antagonistic to copper; if taken in excessively high dosages by individuals with a copper deficiency, they can actually promote infectious processes especially those of bacterial origin
(This could also be why many people don't get sick after taking accutane . its like taking hi doses of Zinc... accutane (hi dose vitamin A) is anti viral bbyREDUCING available copper)
Nutrients Synergistic to Copper Rarely does a single nutrient deficiency develop exclusively. Other nutritional deficiencies and excess are always involved. Referring to figure 1 and 2, we can see the potential of vitamin and mineral toxicity that can develop in the presence of copper deficiency. As an example, the need for vitamin A, C, B6, B3, and B5 is reduced in a copper-deficient state. Conversely, hypervitaminosis of most of these vitamins can be reduced by supplying adequate amounts of copper. We can see particularly that the adverse effects of hyper-vitaminosis A can be decreased by copper supplementation. Synergistic vitamins, those whose requirements are increased by copper deficiency, include vitamin D, B1, B12, C, and folic acid (B10). Supplementation of synergistic vitamins can aid in reducing the effects of copper deficiency and in restoring copper balance. As an example, increased adrenal corticosteroid production decreases copper retention56 as well as antagonizes vitamin D metabolism.57 Vitamin D can antagonize the effect of excessive corticosteroid production, thereby improving copper retention.
- Title
- Modification of vitamin A metabolism in rats fed a copper-deficient diet.
- Author
- Rachman F; Conjat F; Carreau JP; Bleiberg-Daniel F; Amedee-Manesme O
- Address
- INSERM U 56, Universite Paris-Sud, H^opital d'Enfants, Bic^etre, France.
- Source
- Int J Vitam Nutr Res, 57(3):247-52 1987
- Abstract
The liver is the main storage site of vitamin A and copper.Inverse relationships betweencopperand vitamin A liver concentrations have been suggested. We have investigated the consequences of acopper-deficient diet on liver and blood vitamin A storage in Wistar rats. Animals were fed either acopper-deficient diet for 45 days from weaning, or an identical diet containing adequate amounts ofcopper. Concentrations of vitamin A were determined by isocratic high performance liquid chromatography using UV detection. We have observed in the liver of the rats fed acopper-deficient diet a significantly higher mean level of retinyl esters (148 +/- 37 micrograms/g of liver) and retinol (3.3 +/- 1.4 micrograms/g of liver) compared to the mean concentration of the retinyl esters (53 +/- 8.5 micrograms/g of liver) (p less than 0.01) and retinol (1.4 +/- 0.5 micrograms/g of liver) (p less than 0.01) in controls. Opposite results were observed in the serum of the group fed acopper-deficient diet as these rats had a significantly lower level of retinol (22 +/- 4 micrograms/100 ml) compared to the mean concentration in the controls (64 +/- 20 micrograms/100 ml) (p less than 0.01).These findings suggest that a copper-deficient diet may cause defective transport of vitamin A from liver to blood.This experimental model may be useful to further investigate unusual liver vitamin A andcopperconcentrations observed in children during various hepatobiliary diseases.
again, if you feel worse on copper ,this could be a confirmation of the problem...not the problem itself.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/22/8/1017.extract
https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/S0007114572000066
Moore (1969, 1970) has pointed out that retinol and copper behave similarly in being stored preferentially in the liver, and being carried in blood plasma in combination with similar, but different a,-globulins (Glover & Walker, 1964; Kanai, Raz & Goodman, 1968). Otherwise the interrelationships of these two nutrients are often inverse. Physiological or pathological factors that tend to increase the concentration of one of them often decrease the concentration of the other.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2634674/figure/fig1/
10 minutes ago, sweetcapricorn said:
Again, another detox program that has nothing to do with what accutane actually does in the body.
LOOK at this chart:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2634674/figure/fig4/
this is literally what accutanedoes inside your cells. it decreases copper, not increase. its very simple. for those of you who dontunderstand what "effluxed" means...
Effluxisdefinedas something that isdefinedas flowing out or the process of flowing out. When water is flowing out of a river inlet and into a larger stream that is nearby, this is an example ofefflux. The water that is flowing out of a river and into a larger body of water is an example ofefflux.
ATRA "effluxes" copper out of the cell.
Heres more information on this. I have experience with both of these supplements and id stay away from both.
Both meaning copper and zinc.
Let me preface, my opinion.
They both inhibit 5ar in the skin just like accutane. Copper being the only metal to also inhibit 5ar type 2.
Cations inhibit specifically type I 5 alpha-reductase found in human skin.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7738354
Steroid 5 alpha-reductase catalyzes the reduction of testosterone into the very potent androgen dihydrotestosterone. Previously, we showed that human type I 5 alpha-reductase is expressed mainly in the skin, whereas a type II 5 alpha-reductase is more specifically expressed in the prostate. To assess the possible differential effects of various cations on the two types of 5 alpha-reductase, we constructed expression vectors and transfected them into SW-13 cells, a human adrenal carcinoma cell line containing negligible endogenous 5 alpha-reductase activity. The expressed 5 alpha-reductases were analyzed for their sensitivity to Li, Ca, Cd, Cu, Mg, Mn, Ni, Zn, and Fe. The results showed that type I 5 alpha-reductase was strongly inhibited by Cd, Cu, and Zn and moderately inhibited by Ni and Fe, with 50% inhibitory concentration values of 0.9, 1.9, 2.0, 169.2, and 174.3 microM, respectively. In contrast, type II 5 alpha-reductase activity was inhibited only by Cu, with a 50% inhibitory concentration value of 19.2 microM. The data showed that cations could specifically control 5 alpha-reductase activity expression, which is more strongly inhibited in a target tissue, especially the skin.
Effect of oral isotretinoin treatment on skin androgen ... - ResearchGate
The decrease inskinandrogen receptor levels (this study) and the recently reported suppression ofskin5 alpha-dihydrotestosteroneproduction byisotretinointreatment appeared consistent with the involvement of androgen receptor and 5 alpha-dihydrotestosteronein the pathogenesis of acne.
significant decreases in 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone, 5 alpha-androstane-3 alpha,17 beta-diol glucosiduronate, and androsterone glucosiduronate levels were observed after treatment.
These data clearly showed that skin androgen receptor was sensitive to oral isotretinoin administration in acneic patients.
21 hours ago, sweetcapricorn said:On 11/8/2017 at 7:48 PM, hatetane said:If anyone has contact with this guy can you let me know. Thanks
Don't have contact with him, but found him on the internet. He said he's a friend of stefans, which I'm assuming is indigo rush. Maybe indigo will clarify that.
Thanks, I tracked him down now.
11 hours ago, tryingtohelp2014 said:
He has said absolutely nothingto back up anything. His cure is all common knowledge stuff....its not going to remove accutane/ATRA from the liver or fat cells.
His explanation of copper/zinc is just internet re-hash. he has no clue about the actual levels. hair mineral analysis is quackery.
from every scientific paper iveread, vitamin A is antagonistic of copper. they are inversely correlated. We took shit tons of Vitamin A... how are we copper toxic?
Remember accutanewas a chemotherapy drug first that was shown to be much more effective when copper was limited.
....
This information indicates that any factor that antagonizes copper retention can be considered as having anti-viral properties. Those that are synergistic such as vitamin D, B1, B12, and B10, which enhance copper retention, can be considered as having anti-bacterial properties (see figure 1 and 2). As an example, vitamin A, which is considered to be an anti-infectious vitamin, can specifically be categorized as anti-viral. This is also true of vitamin C and zinc. However, zinc, vitamin C, and vitamin A are mutually antagonistic to copper; if taken in excessively high dosages by individuals with a copper deficiency, they can actually promote infectious processes especially those of bacterial origin(This could also be why many people don't get sick after taking accutane . its like taking hi doses of Zinc... accutane (hi dose vitamin A) is anti viral bbyREDUCING available copper)
Nutrients Synergistic to Copper Rarely does a single nutrient deficiency develop exclusively. Other nutritional deficiencies and excess are always involved. Referring to figure 1 and 2, we can see the potential of vitamin and mineral toxicity that can develop in the presence of copper deficiency. As an example, the need for vitamin A, C, B6, B3, and B5 is reduced in a copper-deficient state. Conversely, hypervitaminosis of most of these vitamins can be reduced by supplying adequate amounts of copper. We can see particularly that the adverse effects of hyper-vitaminosis A can be decreased by copper supplementation. Synergistic vitamins, those whose requirements are increased by copper deficiency, include vitamin D, B1, B12, C, and folic acid (B10). Supplementation of synergistic vitamins can aid in reducing the effects of copper deficiency and in restoring copper balance. As an example, increased adrenal corticosteroid production decreases copper retention56 as well as antagonizes vitamin D metabolism.57 Vitamin D can antagonize the effect of excessive corticosteroid production, thereby improving copper retention.
Well you might have detected sarcasm in my post - another YouTube video of someone saying theyre cured by doing X Y Z.....
Quackery or not though - hes a former Accutane victim who sounds like hes cured himself based on video?? So what are to believe?
Sorry but what is ATRA?
Derms lie a lot , today I read a person with severe cystic acne was healed by his girlfriend with breast milk ha , it's true . I read it on natural news. com
Also check this out.
http://supernaturalacnetreatment.com/kitava-island-has-no-acne/
" As a mother who breastfed two babies - I will attest the "magical" quality of breast milk. If a sick baby nurses, the breast will automatically detect any bad bacteria or virus in the baby, develop antibodies, and produce "the cure" directly in the breast milk. Breast milk also works to cure diaper rash -- and ex-boyfriend's severe acne. Really! "
4 hours ago, macleod said:New video. We are really starting to get a grip on the damage phara meds can do and how our natural bodies should run.
They are always interesting these videos.
Bacteria discussion is fascinating but no one knows how to control it, not even a gastroenterologist for me.
As weve discussed a million times, if tane in extreme cases causes ulcerative colitis etc what might it have done to our gut health as well?
But even if we assume its altered , it makes no difference, as weve all tried the best probiotics, all the supposedly healing foods etc and yet here we still are......
The insight into bacteria is great but can anyone shed light on how to make it better
11 hours ago, TrueJustice said:They are always interesting these videos.Bacteria discussion is fascinating but no one knows how to control it, not even a gastroenterologist for me.
As weve discussed a million times, if tane in extreme cases causes ulcerative colitis etc what might it have done to our gut health as well?
But even if we assume its altered , it makes no difference, as weve all tried the best probiotics, all the supposedly healing foods etc and yet here we still are......The insight into bacteria is great but can anyone shed light on how to make it better
Like I said before isotretinoin is just another failed chemotherapy agent just like the rest of their poisons. Lets but it this way derms call it a controlled poisoning what more do you need to know.
There is a reason it was only approved for severe cystic nodular acne NOT mild not medium SEVERE cystic nodular acne because the side effects can be dangerous and severe.
Hello guys, I'm from Brazil and I had accutane (It is called Roacutan in Brazil).
It's been almost 3 years since I had it, and during all these 3 years I've been suffering from a strange body behavior.
At the beginning I was having a lot of sore throat, something that I was not supposed to have after a homeopathy treatment that I've had years ago.
It coincided with the beginning of my sexual life, and because of that I thought that I was contaminated with HIV. At the time I never had the courage to do the exams. The sore throat stopped after 1 year and half.
This year I started to have strange problems with my body, like pain in the knees, skin disease like folliculitis, herpes zoster (a type of herpes that develops in people that had chickenpox back in the days, but I never had it, and I never contacted or had sex with someone with any of this, I can count my sex partners in my fingers), hair loss, molluscum contagiosum in my face (again, this disease is caused by low immunity, and is common in children and HIV victims).
Edit: Depression, vision problems too...
So, I decided to have exams, and the HIV test was negative. There is no scientific reason for my low immunity, I have a good feeding, I drink a cup of lemonade every day (it haves a lot of C Vitamin), I do not have HIV or any other disease that affects my immunity system, I walk a lot so there is no reason for my knees problems, I have hygiene so there is no reason for all these skin diseases.I had it all, and some more, but I never founded a logic reason for all this suffer. Then, today I decided to research about the accutane and the post treatment effects, I didn't found anything in portuguese, but thank god I founded this forum and this thread.
Can someone tell me if there is a way to have a "cure", or if there is a scientific document that can prove this so I can bring it to my doctors? Someone please help me, the language is making it tougher.
So I jumped back on your posts to see when you took it.
It does interest me that you were 22, and I was 20 almost 21 and we suffer very similar effects.
For those who took it as teenagers seem to have complete E.D.
But i I suffer from it very minimally and you not at all. There has to be a connection here. We were practically done with puberty. I know I wasn't growing anymore and had the capability to grow a full beard and chest hair since 16 years old. I don't mean to shoot down those who took it as teenagers but we may have something different going on....
You could be right, when I watch that video just posted, the part about Hippocampus cells being affected - thats me!!!
I get confused easily, would get very frustrated doing just basic maths or problem solving, finding my way out of a maze....forget it.
So who do I see about this, more importantly what can we do about this cell death??
Endocrinologist or Neurologist??
27 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:You could be right, when I watch that video just posted, the part about Hippocampus cells being affected - thats me!!!
I get confused easily, would get very frustrated doing just basic maths or problem solving, finding my way out of a maze....forget it.
So who do I see about this, more importantly what can we do about this cell death??
Endocrinologist or Neurologist??
A neurologist couldn't do much for me. I think it's more hormone based at this point for me. And just fixing this damn imbalance. What worries me though is that I've been suffering from weight gain/gynecomastia and you see this often in propecia sufferers so I really don't know what the fuck is going on and I'm just so damn tired of it all :((
7 hours ago, Colinboko said:@TrueJusticeSo I jumped back on your posts to see when you took it.
It does interest me that you were 22, and I was 20 almost 21 and we suffer very similar effects.
For those who took it as teenagers seem to have complete E.D.
But i I suffer from it very minimally and you not at all. There has to be a connection here. We were practically done with puberty. I know I wasn't growing anymore and had the capability to grow a full beard and chest hair since 16 years old. I don't mean to shoot down those who took it as teenagers but we may have something different going on....
I think as a teenager with the body still growing more thinks get @&( over vs adult.
On 11/11/2017 at 9:42 PM, Gladiatoro said:I think as a teenager with the body still growing more thinks get @&( over vs adult.
This is what I was talking about a few posts back.
Vitamin K-insufficient diets put children at risk of not optimizing their ability to grow strong bones and, potentially, a well-functioning cardiovascular system later in life.
Bones grow and develop most intensively during childhood and adolescence, with up to 90 percent of peak bone mass acquired by age 18 in girls and by age 20 in boys.
Although there is a wide range of normal ages, girls typically begin the process of puberty at age 10 or 11; boys at ages 1112. Girls usually complete puberty by ages1517, while boys usually complete puberty by ages1617.
Osteocalcin. A vitamin K dependant protein. Lets look at Osteocalcin real quick.
Endocrine Actions of Osteocalcin - Hindawi
Apr 2, 2013 -In addition, various growth factors,hormones, or cytokines can modulateosteocalcinproduction through signaling pathways or interacting with...
Bone-Derived Hormone Reverses Age-Related Memory Loss in Mice ...
Aug 29, 2017 -Age-related memory loss was reversed by boosting blood levels ofosteocalcin, ahormoneproduced by bone cells, in mice.
Osteocalcin as a hormone regulating glucose metabolism - NCBI - NIH
Dec 25, 2015 -The number of patients with osteoporosis and diabetes is rapidly increasing all over the world. Bone is recently recognized as an endocrine
Bone hormone boosts muscle performance during exercise but ...Declines with age
Jun 14, 2016 -When we exercise, our bones produce ahormonecalledosteocalcinthat increases muscle performance, according to a new study.
Bones make hormones that communicate with the brain and other ...
Jun 21, 2017 -Of thehormoneson the list of bones' messengers osteocalcin, sclerostin, fibroblast growth factor 23 and lipocalin 2 the last is the latest to.
On 11/11/2017 at 11:35 PM, guitarman01 said:This is what I was talking about a few posts back.
Vitamin K-insufficient diets put children at risk of not optimizing their ability to grow strong bones and, potentially, a well-functioning cardiovascular system later in life.
Bones grow and develop most intensively during childhood and adolescence, with up to 90 percent of peak bone mass acquired by age 18 in girls and by age 20 in boys.
Although there is a wide range of normal ages, girls typically begin the process of puberty at age 10 or 11; boys at ages 1112. Girls usually complete puberty by ages1517, while boys usually complete puberty by ages1617.
Osteocalcin. A vitamin K dependant protein. Lets look at Osteocalcin real quick.
Endocrine Actions of Osteocalcin - Hindawi
by A Patti - 2013 - Cited by 79- Related articlesApr 2, 2013 -In addition, various growth factors,hormones, or cytokines can modulateosteocalcinproduction through signaling pathways or interacting with...
Bone-Derived Hormone Reverses Age-Related Memory Loss in Mice ...
newsroom.cumc.columbia.edu/.../bone-derived-hormone-reverses-age-related-memor...Aug 29, 2017 -Age-related memory loss was reversed by boosting blood levels ofosteocalcin, ahormoneproduced by bone cells, in mice.
Osteocalcin as a hormone regulating glucose metabolism - NCBI - NIH
by I Kanazawa - 2015 - Cited by 24- Related articlesDec 25, 2015 -The number of patients with osteoporosis and diabetes is rapidly increasing all over the world. Bone is recently recognized as an endocrine
Bone hormone boosts muscle performance during exercise but ...Declines with age
Jun 14, 2016 -When we exercise, our bones produce ahormonecalledosteocalcinthat increases muscle performance, according to a new study.
Bones make hormones that communicate with the brain and other ...
[Edited link out]by C Martin - 2017 - Related articlesJun 21, 2017 -Of thehormoneson the list of bones' messengers osteocalcin, sclerostin, fibroblast growth factor 23 and lipocalin 2 the last is the latest to.
Opps should say things , I phone is sometimes hard to use with mini keyboard.
Has anyone had a blood test though that comes back with low Vit K??
Similar to the Copper issue, Ive had the hair mineral test that indicates high copper, also had some blood tests and got nothing conclusive with anything.
Further to my point Ive experimented with copper supplements in a similar fashion to taking Vit K but with NO noticeable changes!!
Has anyone else put the science aside and just experimented with Vit K?? Any positive stories to share?