I found his Instagram a while ago and honestly it was super depressing. The people in the comments kept talking about how disgusting and dirty he was and I felt so bad for him because he's clearly putting a lot of effort into fixing his scars.

I think you are correctly realizing though that most acne scar treatments are disappointing. I think if people started holding doctors accountable and stopped paying them thousands of dollars for their disappointing treatments, they may actually try to find a 100% cure for scarring. Sadly the days are gone were people become doctors because they want to help people, but more doctors are doing it for money/status. Blame capitalism. For a person to spend thousands of dollars on treatments over several months and get "50% improvement if they're lucky" is pretty embarrassing to modern medicine. Could you imagine if you wanted a nose job and the doctor said "Ok we are going to divide this up into 5 treatments over a year and if you are lucky your nose may look 50% better at most" ? No one would go get nose jobs anymore. Now doctors are even blaming the patient saying the "heal poorly". Well maybe if instead of using treatments that wound the skin and risk more scarring you looked into a way to regenerate skin you we wouldn't have this problem. Right now acne scar treatment is basically "Let's make a new wound and hopefully it will look better".
They need to start using topical/histological analysis of the skin to find improvement. If they could say "this improves scarring by raising the bed this much" or "this removed half of scarring" we would be getting somewhere. But sadly as of now most studies actually rate improvement by asking how the patient feels about their scarring. Could you imagine if we tested cancer drugs by asking patients if they feel better? As opposed to you know... the cancer being gone? That study would be a joke. Of course most people will be grateful after giving them a free treatment and will say they feel better. And this isn't even getting into the dishonest lighting/ micro swelling doctors use.

@HugeSoilI do not know who this person is so perhaps you have some insight I don't From the pics linked I see some major problems.

He lives a hard lifestyle drugs, alcohol, bad food, poor health conditions. Acne scars are related to immunity, bacteria, and the body dealing with inflammation. The dude still has acne and does not have it under control, it's absolutely pointless to treat at this time.They won't even let you smoke a bunch of pot and have a surgery because of potential complications and healing issues. Ask a Dr about healing, surgery, treatment and cigarette smoke and they will tell you 😉 The treatments he has received are not appropriate for his scars. Some of them are worthless and used for aesthetics, he is definitely not going to a specialist, ie. ""dry ice facials". His major issue is PIE and active acne. If his skin did not have red inflammation you would see improvement, he needs vascular laser.

There is histology for all acne scar treatments, this is required with medical device or implants(filler), certainly anything that is the "gold" standard. Tons of Split-Face Double-blind Studies out there. Western beauty standards of improvement are not the same as the rest of the world. This is not representative of all cases of treatment. Drs are not magicians nor do they have some ability to fix something that is broken and not responsive, ... why do some people have auto-immune diseases, their symptoms can be treated but not the root of their ongoing problem.

Many in aestheticsdo not feel scars are worth treating as the money is in general aesthetics, easy treatments with high profit. Acne scar work is a surgery, there is variabilityof this outcome like any other surgery.

We would never have had acne scars if your bodies immunity would fight of bacteria and inflammation without making scarring. Different degrees of improvement and healing. This is much more complex than someone just getting treatment. We are treating based on the way you wish to look, not the way you will look, when those goals do not meet, we have a problem.

What are the person's lifestyle choices, diet, health issues, patterns of mental health, treatment goals, after care routines, skill of the practitioner.

I do agree lots of fakes and frauds out there who give unrealistic expectations. I detest people who play off people's hopes. But there are some good guys out there who just treat acne scars. I try to educate people so they spend the minimum amount to get improvement and if that does not occur they stop treatments.

We should refocus, there is a acne vaccine that has been approved. Stop the acne to stop the cause. Hell might as well get HIV, Cancer under control, and every other serious disease. They treat the symptom not the problem. Aesthetics and plastic surgery is about superficial looks, it is not in the realm of life threatening medicine to the medical profession. 10 years ago,... in the past you would not even get 50% improvement, the treatments could also harm you, we are evolving, new techniques, new devices, and new methods will continue to give more improvement.

I am the one who said 50% improvement - "maybe", ... most Drs will tell you 100%. I have helped far to many people to promise something that is so variable. Some people simply do not heal well and have major health issues that no scar treatment can fix. Then you have the guys who see 3 doctors at once, do all sorts of treatments, don't heal properly and cause more damage than good because they cannot wait for the long process of improvement. Half of the cases I help still have active acne, explain to me how that promotes healing of scarring it's another variable to deal with.

I would like a blind, split-face study of patient expectations vs true outcome. That is the part that is suffering in health care (When is good enough good enough, and how do others judge the improvement that was done vs the patient). There should be regulated standards on the way before and after pictures are taken, and blatant false advertising dealt with.

People want the fountain of youth to be discovered, without disease, aging, inflammation, or environmental stressors. Perfect with no scars. There is hope for improvement and betterment if one keeps a realistic mindset. Just like Hollywood has good/bad plastic surgery cases with some of the best doctors, care, and newest techniques being used on them in the world.

For some cases treatment is not effective, but nothing will be until their immunity, disease, allergies, and sensitives are addressed. Age /fat / bone loss is also a issue, a acne scar suffer pre-maturely ages and thus needs treatment.

Otherwise this is a scar less healing mega-thread about theories on regenerating new skin, watch the burn scar treatment market if this is what our hoping for.

Wrap up - go in expecting some improvement, not glass smooth perfection.

@Obi wanWhat are your thoughts on this??

Hey @beautifulambition I cant totally attest to what kind of lifestyle he lives because he has mentioned before that a lot of the stuff he does in his videos is just for the videos and that he cleaned up his diet and stopped doing drugs in real life because of his skin. Ive been following his case very closely for the last year because as someone with scars, we want any amount of hope in treatments so we can help our own. Its kind of tough to tell if his scar treatments are working because he constantly has new acne that covers his whole face where he gets the scar treatments. He actually does go to specialist in California for his scar treatments but doing research on the doctor reveals hes not really a scar specialist but more so a plastic surgeon. Hes tried Accutane for his acne but I believe he had some bad reaction to it so he had to stop taking it so hes pretty much out of options for his acne and is trying to treat the scarring that he had from previous acne long ago. His case as well as @FromScarredtoFree post really make me bring up the question, IS THERE A LEGIT WAY TO TREAT SCARS THAT IS NOT SUBJECT TO VARIABLES AND DOES NOT COMPROMISE ONE SCAR FOR ANOTHER? I do so much research and follow so many people on here and sometimes its just really tough to get a straighfoward answer. Doctors like Lim really do provide inspiration in scar management but even with a great doctor like him he still isn't able to always deliver because of so many different variables. I have mainly icepick scarring and about 3 months ago I did a tca cross and laser session. Although most scars stayed relatively the same, I did have some that filled up but the skin that filled them in looks more like scar tissue than like regular skin. It isn't really all that bad and doesn't bother me too much but it is kind of makes you wonder "Am I stupid for thinking that placing acid on my skin and burning my skin with a laser is supposed to make my skin actually LOOK BETTER?!?!" Sometimes you question if the methods we have in place now are truly advancments in technology and techniques or if in 50 years people will look back and wonder "Wow people really used to stick needles in their face and pour acid into their scars and expected that to fix it" Just a lot of questions I would love answered, thanks to everyone on this community cause they do really try to help as much as possible.

58 minutes ago, HugeSoil said:

Hey @beautifulambition I cant totally attest to what kind of lifestyle he lives because he has mentioned before that a lot of the stuff he does in his videos is just for the videos and that he cleaned up his diet and stopped doing drugs in real life because of his skin. Ive been following his case very closely for the last year because as someone with scars, we want any amount of hope in treatments so we can help our own. Its kind of tough to tell if his scar treatments are working because he constantly has new acne that covers his whole face where he gets the scar treatments. He actually does go to specialist in California for his scar treatments but doing research on the doctor reveals hes not really a scar specialist but more so a plastic surgeon. Hes tried Accutane for his acne but I believe he had some bad reaction to it so he had to stop taking it so hes pretty much out of options for his acne and is trying to treat the scarring that he had from previous acne long ago. His case as well as @FromScarredtoFree post really make me bring up the question, IS THERE A LEGIT WAY TO TREAT SCARS THAT IS NOT SUBJECT TO VARIABLES AND DOES NOT COMPROMISE ONE SCAR FOR ANOTHER? I do so much research and follow so many people on here and sometimes its just really tough to get a straighfoward answer. Doctors like Lim really do provide inspiration in scar management but even with a great doctor like him he still isn't able to always deliver because of so many different variables. I have mainly icepick scarring and about 3 months ago I did a tca cross and laser session. Although most scars stayed relatively the same, I did have some that filled up but the skin that filled them in looks more like scar tissue than like regular skin. It isn't really all that bad and doesn't bother me too much but it is kind of makes you wonder "Am I stupid for thinking that placing acid on my skin and burning my skin with a laser is supposed to make my skin actually LOOK BETTER?!?!" Sometimes you question if the methods we have in place now are truly advancments in technology and techniques or if in 50 years people will look back and wonder "Wow people really used to stick needles in their face and pour acid into their scars and expected that to fix it" Just a lot of questions I would love answered, thanks to everyone on this community cause they do really try to help as much as possible.

I think how we're treating scars will be looked as the equivalent of placing leeches on your skin to cure disease or giving people lobotomies. I have tried a lot for my scarring and I haven't seen much improvement. If you have the means and the time to treat your scars by all means do it. But if you know you won't be happy with 20-30% improvement after a year it's probably best to focus your time and money on something else. And there are a ton of people that report getting worse scarring from things like TCA cross and laser.

I'm convinced the biggest factor in scarring is genetics. I'm a college students and I see people that drink and smoke everyday and have acne but still don't scar. I have literally never smoked in my life and I still have a ton of scars. I really didn't even have "severe" acne because I didn't really notice it but I definitely notice the scars it left behind.

The funny thing about things like cancer, HIV, diabetes, ect is that they are for the most part preventable, yet modern medicine focuses almost exclusively on these things. I'm not saying anyone deserves these things, but if someone constantly drinks and does drugs and then gets liver or lung cancer, maybe at a certain point we should stop helping people with these self destructive behaviors. Most people that have HIV/AIDS unless they are extremely unlucky get it through extremely risky behaviors like sharing needles and multiple sexual partners. Diabetes is the result of unhealthy eating habits and lack of exercise. It's unfair that people like supreme patty, who has severe scarring acne, has tried almost everything yet has gotten little help from modern medicine. I try very hard to take care of my skin and body and it's frustrating seeing a homeless meth addict that has better skin than me. Nowadays you read about doctors doing "harm reduction" and giving drug addicts needles, better enabling them to do drugs without a risk of infection. Maybe doctors don't understand how damaging scars and acne are but it definitely is not getting enough attention.

@beautifulambition We both know that it's very easy to manipulate lighting to make scars disappear. I can take two pictures right now and one will make my skin look airbrushed while the other will make me look like Freddy Kreugar. That's why I'm reluctant to accept double blind studies as legitimate as often they will just show another dermatologist two pictures and ask them to rate improvement. For the most part doing a study is expensive so even if they data shows bad/no results they'll find ways to manipulate it. Not to mention they often ask their colleagues (i.e friends) to rate these pictures. If doctors would actually do an analysis of the skin surface and maybe do things like examine collagen, scar bed, fibrosis sebum glands, hair follicles, ect we would be getting much more useful analysis as opposed to saying "scars look better". Unfortunately most doctors are complacent because scar treatments are making them money, so why change it? I think acne scarring is becoming a much bigger problem than it was before. Everyone has an HD camera in their pocket, we have selfies, Instagram, snapchat, ect. When I first started looking for an acne scar doctor, I found orthodontists, eye doctors, OBGYNs advertising for laser treatments and fillers. Often buying these lasers allows a steady stream of income and a patient that will keep returning to the office for several months.

Also I've seen 5-6 doctors about scarring and I've never had one tell me they would be 100% gone. Almost all of them say 40-70% percent depending on how many treatments. For a doctor to say 100% would be an outright lie.

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27 minutes ago, Candy Says said:

Quote

I can take two pictures right now and one will make my skin look airbrushed while the other will make me look like Freddy Kreugar

lucky. you have some angles and lightings where you can look good. Some people are terrible from every angle.

Hahaha trust me I'm the last person you would consider to be lucky.

Honestly, the guy looks like he still has severe acne, so he's probably still getting new scars regularly.

@FromScarredtoFreeso what do you think about Lim? Cause I generally agree with you a lot of doctors manipulate stuff. His Instagram however does have various examples of legit videos and pictures that look pretty impressive.

43 minutes ago, MustardEntree said:

@FromScarredtoFreeso what do you think about Lim? Cause I generally agree with you a lot of doctors manipulate stuff. His Instagram however does have various examples of legit videos and pictures that look pretty impressive.

I agree that he is at the top of the field but given how horrible acne scarring treatments are as of now that isn't saying much. He used to work at another dermatology center and got lots of bad reviews. Also he used to manipulate his lighting and when people began to call him out on this he started taking videos. My biggest issue is though he often takes pictures right after injecting filler into patients. When I had filler done for the first few weeks my skin was perfect and then the scars came back. In one video a patient flew from another country and he took the video showing his skin literally right after he injected the fillers. It seems like a lot of doctors take pictures during the swelling phase and while I want to believe it's not malicious someone going through years of medical training and not understanding swelling is hard for me to believe. Like most doctors he only posts his best results. He sees tons of patients everyday and he only posts 1-3 a week.

I had a rhinoplasty in the past (Mostly to compensate for scarring) and as time went on my nose actually started to shrink and look better. Almost all plastic surgery treatments tend to 1) Give good results in 1 procedure 2) Have stability or improvements over time 3) Give predictable and consistent results. Acne scarring treatments as of now does none of these things. It is VERY rare to have something like a nose job or boob job and end up worse off. For acne scarring treatment I would say it's much more common. For example when I had subcision at 18 I got two new scars by my ear where he inserted the needle, and I was completely healthy. Lot's of people complain that TCA cross made their scars wider. It's basically a crapshoot with too many variables and at best minimal improvements. You have to find a specialist doctor, you have to find a good method, you have to have good wound healing, you have to be housebound for at least a week, ect.

My message is if you have the money for acne scarring treatment and the time go for it. But you should honestly be happy with 20-30% improvement and be willing to possibly worsen scars. I thought that when I started acne scarring treatment that 40-70% improvement would mean that 40-70% of scarring would disappear. Unfortunately that is not the case. If you are lucky your scars will still be there, just 40-70% less deep. For me, I can say it was not worth it because all my scars are still there.

@FromScarredtoFreehey again i tend to agree with you about certain aspects but i dont know if i can fully agree with everything your saying. You say that plastic surgery is very predictable and it's very rare to be worse off after it. I'm sorry but I have to disagree here. If you search the interent you will find an insane amount of botched surgery's and jobs, people often dying (kanye west mother is a good example) and other horror stories. It happens so often that theres even very popular TV shows about it. I'm really happy yours went well and I wish you the best but I just cant agree there. Also if you go on realself and look at the percentage of people that say rhinoplasty is worth it it is 90% but then if you look at acne scar treatment its 92%. That means that 92% of people who did scar treatments were happy and these are also real scar treatments not PIH or acne or anything like that. Does that mean the people on this forum are too critical or are people on realself just lying? I really cant answer that. Also I'm sure Lim probably picks the best ones to post on his Instagram as well but for someone to complain that they only post 1-3 posts a week is a little insensitive. Most people dont post on Instagram even 1-3 times a week so it's a little much considering he has at least 100 differnt before and after cases on the interent that we can look at. Also with the 40-70% less deep point, I have had tca cross with laser and I can honestly confirm that a couple of my ice pick scars did really disappear. I'm talking like I took pictures of them from every single angle in every single lighting to try to find them and they really just aren't there anymore. Again, these scars were not really severe so I'm guessing larger scars or deeper scars probably dont have much of a chance of completely filling in. I'd love to hear other people like @Obi wancomment on this topic. At the end of the day, the way I look at it is if the scars really bother you that much it really doenst hurt to at least try the treatments and see how you feel afterwards. Like you said there are a lot of variables which in turn can change different peoples opinions on what satisfaction really is. There is no denying that like any cosmetic procedure there is a chance of making it worse, definitely a higher chance with scar revision than most other things, but at the end of the day a lot of people in life have to make a lot of decisions that potentially have drastic consequences, I know its hard for people with scars to not find any security in treatments but at the end of the day what are we really supposed to do but try and pray for the best.

i won't go into too much detail... but I would say that Dr Lim seems both genuine & talented.
BUT he is not exempt from the laws of science. Those laws being that acne scarring is extremely difficult to treat. I would be skeptical as to some of his before & afters as they are routinely in different lighting (even a slightttest of difference in lighting makes a huge difference) or slightly different angles. or as mentioned above are too soon after the surgery. He's human in that he wants to present good results, and I do think he is both skilled and dedicated. But when this leads to false expectations and people travelling a long distance for big money with unrealistic hopes, it becomes more tricky. Has there been anyone on this board who could vouch for his results with photo evidence?
I agree with the overall points being made here on acne scarring being 1. expectations 2. cost sense (avoid big travel unless you have no alternatives)