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Congrats! Man, so jealous. I wish I could use my savings for subcision. I have been dying to try and improve my scars for the past 15 years and I was going to, but life keeps dealing me the worst cards in the game. I'm literally dumping everything I saved up for in medical treatment because I have no insurance. I have to see a doctor once again to fight for my health. Every time I think i'm ready to embark on this scar healing journey, I keep getting roadblocked. Why is life so cruel? Why can't I feel healthy for once and finally be able to do something for myself? I have spent my 20's and now my mid 30's feeling sick and when I finally think I'm healed and can move forward, life looks down on me shaking a finger and telling me I have no right to smile. My skin won't stay young forever and the longer I delay treating my scars, the harder it will be.
16 hours ago, publicoracle said:I just saw him Novic for filler (Belotero). I have a bunch of events over the next wee so I just don't have the downtime for subcision. He seemed very careful and knowledgeable, and he's clearly a nice guy.
A few hours later, the filler on almost all the scars worked out well except a linear scar near the corner of my lip. He filled both the scar and the general indented area. Unfortuately, there appears to be too much filler below the scar, which made that scar more prominent i.e. a "donut" effect.
Obviously, it's still swollen but I have a feeling the "donut" effect around the filler will remain after the swelling is gone. That scar will probably require subcision and/or TCA. It may also require hyaluronidase to dissolve the filler, which I hate because it will spread to the surrounding area. I'm kind of upset about that right now even though the rest of the scars look a lot better.
Also, when showing him where to inject, I missed one rolling scar.
can show any photo I want see effect of subcision.
sorry for my eng
11 hours ago, PetPeeve said:Congrats! Man, so jealous. I wish I could use my savings for subcision. I have been dying to try and improve my scars for the past 15 years and I was going to, but life keeps dealing me the worst cards in the game. I'm literally dumping everything I saved up for in medical treatment because I have no insurance. I have to see a doctor once again to fight for my health. Every time I think i'm ready to embark on this scar healing journey, I keep getting roadblocked. Why is life so cruel? Why can't I feel healthy for once and finally be able to do something for myself? I have spent my 20's and now my mid 30's feeling sick and when I finally think I'm healed and can move forward, life looks down on me shaking a finger and telling me I have no right to smile. My skin won't stay young forever and the longer I delay treating my scars, the harder it will be.
I'm sorry about your health issues, PetPeeve That must be frustrating, both because beingsic sucks and because it keeps you from dealing with your skin.
I don't believe that treating your scars will be that different in your 20s vs. 30s and haven't seen any real evidence for that. I believe that MrMatt, a poster on this board, is in his late 30s or early 40s and had incredible results from subcision. Please just concentrate on resting and getting well, to the extent that it's in your control.
7 hours ago, publicoracle said:I'm sorry about your health issues, PetPeeve That must be frustrating, both because beingsic sucks and because it keeps you from dealing with your skin.
I don't believe that treating your scars will be that different in your 20s vs. 30s and haven't seen any real evidence for that. I believe that MrMatt, a poster on this board, is in his late 30s or early 40s and had incredible results from subcision. Please just concentrate on resting and getting well, to the extent that it's in your control.
You are right. I once read a post on here about a guy who was almost 60. He had subcision done and he said the the result were pretty good 🙂
@PetPeeve some doctors dont charge much for subcision. Subcision + suction is a very inexpensiveoption depending upon where you live. My doc only charges $300 USD for full face subcision. If you let us know where you live? someone can help you find a good but inexpensive doc.
Wow time flies, its been a month since my treatment, feels like yesterday. Sorry for not updating all the time. Ive been living life, working, bought a new car, etc. Ill get some new pictures up when I can, I just hate acne scar pictures. With a slight change in the light or angle I can make the scars much worse or better than usual. In the meantime, I hope youll take my word for it. I really dont want to mislead anybody here.
Im not concerned about the TCA cross spot I was complaining about anymore. It is still quite pink/red, but has filled in considerably, and seems to look better every day. Still rocking the band-aid with hair flipped over it, looking forward to the end of that and getting a buzz cut. Im not sure the indent is any better or worse than before, but the redness looks like it will take a long time to fade. Either way, its waaaay better than when the scab fell off 3 weeks ago and I panicked.
I think I have a couple "doughnut effects" on my cheeks where voluma was placed but scars not subcised. The subcisions are still looking very promising. One scar on my temple that was subcised without filler is holding 50%+ improvement, while the others would be around 20% give or take.
My overall impression is that subcision is the most effective treatment Ive done yet, though results vary from scar to scar. TCA cross is effective, but carries a long recovery time.
Novick earned my return visit, and Ill be going back June 16th. Ill only be doing subcision this time. I want to bang out a round of 4 or so subcisions by the end of the year, and then re-evaluate. After that, I might re fill my voluma, and a round of V-beams is on my radar. I think @Robertitoo followed the subcision/vbeam protocol, and he barely posts anymore. Probably enjoying life. I had some vbeams done a couple years ago and it worked great for pie/pih. Hopefully it helps the light pinkish color within my scarring after subcision hopefully lifts them up.
@publicoracle Thank you. And yes, you are correct. I am prioritizing my health above all else. That's why every last dime is going to pay out of pocket for my specialist. She's an endocrinologists. I am being seen for potential reoccurring Cushing's syndrome of the adrenals or adrenal insufficiency. @keving100. I'm a NYC native living in Greenville South Carolina and there's a doctor here who performs subcision. I don't know what he charges or how good he is, but I'm sure as heck it's a lot cheaper than anything up north. I once got quoted $1500 for ONE session of stupid Smoothbeam back in 2008 by a sleazy Manhattan derm! Yeah, you read right, one! So imagine if he had offered subcision, which I'm sure he wouldn't because it would get in the way of his laser profits. I didn't know about subcision back then so I wouldn't have asked or shopped around for other docs.
A while agoI tried getting, not a quote, but an average from the derm in Greenville. His staff wouldn't give me any ideas unless I had a consult. I made an appointment, but then ended up canceling when my symptoms started to crop up again. The acne started returning along with hair loss and severe pain and fatigue. In my experience, this is an indicator of Cushing's. Hopefully not, it could be a mix of insufficiency with PCOS. Regardless, I'd rather save every penny I have because my medical bills are going to bankrupt me after all of the specialized testing and visits I have up ahead to see what the heck is going on. I'm looking at another 10 years or more before I'm recovered enough to even consider getting any cosmetic procedures done. Throughout all of this chaos, in the very least, I just wanted to feel good about myself, not feel that I have been damaged by all of these scars that are a terrible reminder of the battles I've faced.
@QuanHenryIs there a reason why you're opting to not get any fillers on your second round of subcision? Or are you only supposed to get them once a year or so?
Did the fillers add to your total cost or did he include them in your subcision package?
I just emailed his receptionist back to schedule an appt today! I kept wondering - should I go see him? Or back to my derm who just wanted to sell me microneedling sessions within five minutes of knowing me and has not changed her tune since. $300 microneedling sounds like the more affordable deal, I just don't think its gonna make a dent in my scars.
I've done so much research and Novick really is the only guy in my city who has opinions that make sense to me (laser is overpriced and risky; subscision and TCA, if anything, may help). I was struggling because I know it'll be expensive, but you look awesome. I think its worth it.
I quit smoking last month, so I'll consider this my present to myself with the money I would have otherwise spent on cigs. Thanks for posting your progress 
On 5/26/2017 at 8:02 PM, QuanHenry said:Wow time flies, its been a month since my treatment, feels like yesterday. Sorry for not updating all the time. Ive been living life, working, bought a new car, etc. Ill get some new pictures up when I can, I just hate acne scar pictures. With a slight change in the light or angle I can make the scars much worse or better than usual. In the meantime, I hope youll take my word for it. I really dont want to mislead anybody here.
Im not concerned about the TCA cross spot I was complaining about anymore. It is still quite pink/red, but has filled in considerably, and seems to look better every day. Still rocking the band-aid with hair flipped over it, looking forward to the end of that and getting a buzz cut. Im not sure the indent is any better or worse than before, but the redness looks like it will take a long time to fade. Either way, its waaaay better than when the scab fell off 3 weeks ago and I panicked.
I think I have a couple "doughnut effects" on my cheeks where voluma was placed but scars not subcised. The subcisions are still looking very promising. One scar on my temple that was subcised without filler is holding 50%+ improvement, while the others would be around 20% give or take.
My overall impression is that subcision is the most effective treatment Ive done yet, though results vary from scar to scar. TCA cross is effective, but carries a long recovery time.
Novick earned my return visit, and Ill be going back June 16th. Ill only be doing subcision this time. I want to bang out a round of 4 or so subcisions by the end of the year, and then re-evaluate. After that, I might re fill my voluma, and a round of V-beams is on my radar. I think @Robertitoo followed the subcision/vbeam protocol, and he barely posts anymore. Probably enjoying life. I had some vbeams done a couple years ago and it worked great for pie/pih. Hopefully it helps the light pinkish color within my scarring after subcision hopefully lifts them up.
What is pie/pih? I'm guessing it refers to red mars? I had v-beam done at the end of March. It was done just barely at the purpura level, but the swelling lasted for a month. I don't see any improvement.
One thing that scares me a little are the stories I've seen (on the rosacea forumsand elsewhere) of people getting indented scaring from vbeam. It usually happens only after the vbeam actually burns/blisters the skin, but one guy claims to have gotten linear indented scars without even getting bruised.
Where do yo get the vbeam done?
The donutting effect isn't as bad now, and the linear scar seems softer now, more like a red line. Still, I'd like to have it subcised. I will definitely be going back to Novick.
@publicoracleThe new vbeams Perfekta as a couple of years ago does not burn or dimple the skin, that is old, maybe on the first machine. They use dry ice to freeze the skin, so no burning happens. PIE/ PIH deals with hyperpigmentation. One can get indented scarring with any laser, if your skin has a cyst and you have it done or excess sebrum. The vbeam at least freezes the skin to avoid thermal damage. IPL is quite popular and uses no freezing. The only other laser which is popular now is Excel V.You will find unhappy people with any procedure, hence why happy people don't complain on realself
My derm said that if you go very high on the settings with the Vbeam to the point where you get purpura (bruising) that it can potentially scar, which is even more true if you are a person of color. I was surprised by this because I thought Vbeam was not a pretty benign laser. Vbeam Perfecta is supposed to not cause bruising. What struck me about this comment is that if a Vbeam can scar you at high settings, think about the risk of C02 lasers which is many times more powerful.
I was talking to Dr. Lim and he said Purpura is good, but yes it depends on the skin type. If you already will hyperpigment and they bump it up. Your only going to have issues. For a Caucasian if your Purpura sometimes it can help it be more effective. But your right Daz, any laser has side effects and I am sure someone is going to have some issue occasionally. The Vbeam is pretty tame compared to CO2 thermal damage with the Dry Ice.
What I am seeing from my own and assisting using these machines is people having cysts, or excess sebum the laser seems to boil it ** especially CO2 as the surface is not cooled, hence why you dimple. It was filling the area before and liquefy. Sometimes this can be good with a non ablative laserit clears acne, but yes if the cells aren't right or hyperlasia, there could be issues. Even little tiny clear and brilliant people have had issues. It's all a gamble. ... That said I'd still do V-Beam, Excel V can work better in Asians. IF one is ethnic you need to do lower settings and use the skin bleaches / lighteners or you will hyperpigment.
Don't even get me started on people with filler who get laser done and it liqufies in their skin, hello ... HAHA
3 hours ago, beautifulambition said:I was talking to Dr. Lim and he said Purpura is good, but yes it depends on the skin type. If you already will hyperpigment and they bump it up. Your only going to have issues. For a Caucasian if your Purpura sometimes it can help it be more effective. But your right Daz, any laser has side effects and I am sure someone is going to have some issue occasionally. The Vbeam is pretty tame compared to CO2 thermal damage with the Dry Ice.
What I am seeing from my own and assisting using these machines is people having cysts, or excess sebum the laser seems to boil it ** especially CO2 as the surface is not cooled, hence why you dimple. It was filling the area before and liquefy. Sometimes this can be good with a non ablative laserit clears acne, but yes if the cells aren't right or hyperlasia, there could be issues. Even little tiny clear and brilliant people have had issues. It's all a gamble. ... That said I'd still do V-Beam, Excel V can work better in Asians. IF one is ethnic you need to do lower settings and use the skin bleaches / lighteners or you will hyperpigment.Don't even get me started on people with filler who get laser done and it liqufies in their skin, hello ... HAHA
has any filler which are permanent.
@QuanHenry I had a consultation with Dr. Novick recently, and he seemed very knowledgeable about acne scars.
He was very assertive in using 'biostimulatory fillers' along with subcision. You said you would be only going for subcision this time (I believe on June 16th?). Do you think the biostimulatory filler was helpful enough for your subcision results to go for it again, or will you just be doing pure subcision this time?
22 hours ago, publicoracle said:I think Novick puts a small amount of filler in during all subcisions.
Yes he does. I just got back from my second visit to his office. Today we did 20 subcisions with filler. He used belotero for some and restylane lift for others.
I took some some pictures this morning and earlier this week. I'll post them when I have time and am on my computer.
Tried my best to replicate the same lighting before/after. This is the worst I can make my scars look in a picture, with the light beaming off the cheek bone. Not perfect, but my scars are improving imo.
This is after one subcision with filler 8 days ago. We didn't do these on my first visit. Notice the long scar that looks like an upside down exclamation point on the center of my cheek, and the long one near my mouth. Looks better to me.
The improvement is definitely noticeable. It also seems like your general outlook on things has improved as well, as I remember you being really defeated before you started your treatments. I'm really happy for you.
I think your case and others (mine included) drives home the point that subcision and fillers is the best route when you have deep indentations and volume loss. No amount of lasering will fill a deep hole. I'm glad that people are finally waking up to this point, and realizing that lasers for acne scars is mostly bogus. On the one hand you have the laser companies sponsoring the studies and paying the doctors to sit on their advisory boards, and doctors with practices who buy the devices and then have to push them to recoup their $100K machines.
Very happy for you Quan, I know I told you this through PM but wanted to make it public, ... great progress. From very little progress multi - Fraxels, to microneedling and now filler and subcision it's been a good journey.
$150 that is absolutely nuts, no one in CA or most major city will give you that price and I thought Rullans was good. Most people charge $350+ per 5 scars for just subcision (no filler), or $350+ per area + Filler cost. They are trying to recoup their costs through cheaper sub when laser brings in $$$$. $150 is like most doctors office visit fee double that and you get $300, needle is nothing. Vivance (1mhz wrinkles/ 2mhz acne scars - much better than laser) Infini, same thing (rf microneedle).I would not do it till your filler wears out and your due for a top up.
I've heard of her, but decided against because she pushes energy device. But maybe I'll give her a chance for my next subcision.
Edit: Its been 2 weeks since my subcision. Scars may even be a little better than before, but certainly not worse. Safe to say I'm getting some level of long term improvement.
Not sure for if ishould try Ringfeil next time. I think subcision results dependon technique and skill. Novick is guaranteed improvement,but it would be nice to save the money.