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37 minutes ago, 91baby said:Oh damn, i thought consistent 25% tca peels over time would yield some improvement. Are you saying i would need a deeper % to get me to where i want to be @UpliftingCat ?
ive seen some nice before & afters from people who used a series of just 25% tca, that's why i thought id use that percentage
Well, I think that doing TCA 25% over time could yield some improvement but even doing many superficial peels over time will not yield the same results as doing medium-depth or deep peels. The increase in collagen and elastin will be marginal. Doing a few 25% peels will help form new upper dermal collagen but it will not affect the dermal pathology which is what is needed to improve acne scarring. Basically what you could reasonably expect is an improvement in very mild rhytides and mild textural issues. Keep in mind, the information I am presenting is based on the results, research, and data from my current doctor and perhaps other people have had success with 25% TCA with their scarring. I know another member of this forum does their own 25% TCA peels and has said to have success with them. I started doing peels with my doctor a little less than a year ago and I told him I had done two 30% TCA peels prior and he told me those weren't going to do much for my skin and that I needed to do several medium-depth ones.
@UpliftingCat thankyou that makes sense 
i would go for a deeper peel if i could but i dont think i could stay indoors for as long as the downtime takes!
have you had personal experience with peels? What have your results been like if so?
what are rhytides by the way? Thanks again!
42 minutes ago, 91baby said:@UpliftingCat thankyou that makes sensehave you had personal experience with peels? What have your results been like if so?
what are rhytides by the way? Thanks again!
The downtime isn't as long as you'd think. The longest I have ever peeled is 8 days and then I wear sunscreen and a wide-brimmed hat when I am outdoors. I wear a hat every time I even step outside now because I don't want to expose my newly peeled skin to the sun.
I have done 2 30% peels, 1 dry ice + 15% TCA peel, 1 dry ice + 20% TCA peel, 1 dry ice + 25% peel, and then just did a dry ice + 35% TCA peel about 2 months ago. Dry-ice in itself when moved across the skin with hard pressure for 10-15 seconds is stronger than a 30% TCA peel. So even though I did dry ice + a lower concentrations of TCA this still gave me a relatively good peel. However, these peels still weren't considered medium depth until my most recent one. By definition, a medium depth peel uses a combination of Jessners, dry ice, or glycolic + 35% TCA. I have also had several treatments of TCA cross. My icepick scars have improved substantially but my textural issues are extremely stubborn. That was the main thing I wanted to improve and while my texture has softened, the issues I am concerned about are still there. It has been a cumbersome and emotional journey for me but even getting some results has encouraged me to continue on with the peels.
Rhytides are wrinkles.
5 hours ago, UpliftingCat said:Well, I think that doing TCA 25% over time could yield some improvement but even doing many superficial peels over time will not yield the same results as doing medium-depth or deep peels. The increase in collagen and elastin will be marginal. Doing a few 25% peels will help form new upper dermal collagen but it will not affect the dermal pathology which is what is needed to improve acne scarring. Basically what you could reasonably expect is an improvement in very mild rhytides and mild textural issues. Keep in mind, the information I am presenting is based on the results, research, and data from my current doctor and perhaps other people have had success with 25% TCA with their scarring. I know another member of this forum does their own 25% TCA peels and has said to have success with them. I started doing peels with my doctor a little less than a year ago and I told him I had done two 30% TCA peels prior and he told me those weren't going to do much for my skin and that I needed to do several medium-depth ones.
Yes, my doc have said that the peels don't do much for dents, only the phenol somewhat. Which is pretty hardcore.
@Noa27 well that's disheartening to hear 
i have seen a couple of success stories and genuine before & afters that gave me the idea in the first place. I still think I'll give it a go..!
i also see a ton of reviews about the maitenance-type tca peels (15 and 18%) and people raaaave about how good their skin looks and how they make them look years younger etc.. so they must be doing SOMEthing, right? Surely after continuous peels at a higher % they would somewhat reach the real issue (the damaged skin) ? I dunno, i know nothing hahah. I just thought it made sense
Hey 91baby, if you read scientific articles, they have clear proof that peels (at correct percentages) DO improve pitting, but it takes a lot of time. Don't lose hope!! Just keep going at it with the TCA peels and remember that your skin is just going to keep getting better from here on out (except for downtime hehe)
15 minutes ago, Petsme said:Hey 91baby, if you read scientific articles, they have clear proof that peels (at correct percentages) DO improve pitting, but it takes a lot of time. Don't lose hope!! Just keep going at it with the TCA peels and remember that your skin is just going to keep getting better from here on out (except for downtime hehe)
Thanks @Petsme ! I will definitely press on with everything as i had planned. Have you started peels yet?
@91baby Unfortunately I have to extend my accutane course one more month, then I will be doing a few subcisions, and then peels in 6 months!! I have a looong way to go. I'm really excited looking at your results so far and I can't wait for you to share your TCA experience too! I agree that TCA peels, even at lower percentages, are something that everyone should do a few times yearly to maintain their skin! Intend to do them for the rest of my life (though of course I will slow down a lot once my scarring improves!)
@Petsme thanks for being so positive! Im eager to start with the 25% peels on the 14th, being indoors for over a week will be seriously hard though - ill be counting on you guys to keep me occupied!! And ill be sure to post informative updates
I have just emailed my doc to see if i can go ahead with the peel on the 14th of december. Fingers crossed or I'll probably end up doing it myself haha.
just FYI, im on the 3rd day of the 10% peel and it doesn't look like im going to have any flaking or peeling or anything like that, i would put that percentage down to exfoliation, rather than a peel. Skin feels slightly dry but thats about it, so i dont feel worried in the slightest about having a peel performed on the 14th
I just wanted to show some pics (from last year, so quite old) that show the concerns i have from a different angle.
Also i just wanted to point out that im pretty certain due to being so obsessed with my scarring I've developed BDD. After years of looking at myself in anything i could (mirrors constantly, windows, car mirrors, etc) i have managed to find a flaw with every single part of myself.. which is something i will be bringing up with the councilor when i go. Ive heard there is medication you can go on which helps with the obsessive compulsions and obsessive thoughts that are associated with BDD. Hopefully i can get to a place where im not obsessed with my looks whilst still actively trying to improve my scarring.
@91babyYes the reason I had you start out so low as people have burnt and hurt themselves with even low amounts of acid. Best to test spot. If you want to do the 25% at home (trying to help) here ... Do a test spot today (now) of the 25% near the ear on a very ""small"" spot and see how you do. Then peel when you have healed proportionality from the last if the test spot heals ok. I typically do not recommend this approach as it's a big jump to 25% and can cause issues. The skin likes to get used to acids. Of course if one goes to a Dr they can put much much higher percentages on right away and that is safe with their guidance / treatment (they don't test spot).
I see the improvements that are happening from the old pics.
@91baby Wow, looking at your old photos, you have REALLY come a long way!!! Your face looks so much smoother now and you have almost no shadowing left in any of your scars now. This is really exciting!! You really are doing an amazing job treating your scars while also trying to take care of yourself I know it is an emotional journey, but hey, just look at all the progress you've made!! Plus, you have all of us here to support you! ™¥ Best of luck!
@beautifulambitioncan i ask what the difference would be from my doc applying 25% and myself? When i did the 10% i used a cotton bud and just wiped it back and forth over the area lightly, made sure there was no excess, etc. If i do the 25% the exact same way surely there would be no difference between myself or a doc doing it? What do you think?
i dont know if this counts, but ive done several 40% glycolic peels and now this tca peel.. do you still think 25% is a big jump for me? I could always try it at 18% first i guess? I think my way of thinking is; if i have to be house bound for over a week, id rather it be for a peel that may actually yield some improvement, if that makes sense.. as i know anything under 25 is probably just a superficial peel.
@Petsme thanks again darling! It is definitely emotional but ill keep trying haha! Thankyou, you too xx
@Quadboy thanks for the response i did all my glycolic peels with a gauze, i went for a cotton bud with the tca because i was scared haha and i knew there would be less product on it and there was less chance of having excess acid on it. My doc doesnt even perform peels as shes all for fillers and dermapen.. she actually has to order the tca in! Is that worrying?? Haha.. do docs need to be highly experienced to perform a good peel? It just seems like such an easy procedure for anyone to do.
2 hours ago, 91baby said:@beautifulambition can i ask what the difference would be from my doc applying 25% and myself? When i did the 10% i used a cotton bud and just wiped it back and forth over the area lightly, made sure there was no excess, etc. If i do the 25% the exact same way surely there would be no difference between myself or a doc doing it? What do you think?i dont know if this counts, but ive done several 40% glycolic peels and now this tca peel.. do you still think 25% is a big jump for me? I could always try it at 18% first i guess? I think my way of thinking is; if i have to be house bound for over a week, id rather it be for a peel that may actually yield some improvement, if that makes sense.. as i know anything under 25 is probably just a superficial peel.
@Petsme thanks again darling! It is definitely emotional but ill keep trying haha! Thankyou, you too xx
It is different because you don't have the same skill level as a doctor does. There's an art to chemical peeling. I'm certainly not saying 25% couldn't be done at home, but there's more risk especially when you have only done a 10% TCA yourself. There is a definitely a difference in terms of risks and that, for me, would be enough to discourage me from applying 25% TCA myself. When I posted earlier that there is little risk with a 25% TCA peel, because it is a light peel, I meant under the care of a skilled doctor. I may sound like I am repetitive here, but there is ALWAYS I heightened risk for self-administered peels. You likely aren't going to see any difference from a single light-peel anyway so if you are dead set on self-administering, why not practice and get the hang of it with lower acid concentrations first?
1 hour ago, 91baby said:@Quadboy thanks for the response
When you say a "good" peel what exactly do you mean? When I think of a "good" peel I think of one that is safe and effective. I absolutely believe a doctor needs to be highly skilled especially when we are talking about scar remodeling. Let me give you a personal experience: I travel quite a distance every 2-3 months to see my doctor for my medium depth peels. It's exhausting because I make a day trip out of it and wake up around 4:30 AM, hop on a plane, and then don't get back to my house until midnight that night. Long story short, I decided to see a local doctor for a 35% TCA peel because I was sick of the traveling (mind you this is still considered a light peel by definition) and this doctor over-coated me so much in one area that I formed a small pit from the acid. This doctor wasn't well trained in peels and over-coated me in an area I had no scarring where the acid should have just been feathered. Luckily, my current peel doctor was able to completely correct the pit that formed but it was still a very scary experience. Skill-level does matter with peels just like any kind of specialized resurfacing and/or scar correction.
@UpliftingCat thankyou for your response, very informative i absolutely adore my doc and i trust her but now youre making me think maybe i should go elsewhere. Its really REALLY hard to find reviews for docs in adelaide because we're such a small place. You would think a qualified dermatologist would know how to apply a peel correctly!!! As i stated before i have done several glycolic peels at 40% so i have a little bit of peeling experience at least. I would LOVE to have more experience with TCA before moving up to 25% but as i said before, if im going to house-bound i would prefer it to be because of a higher % peel. With my mental state at the moment its really quite hard for me to be at home and not out, doing things & keeping my mind busy, if you get me
4 minutes ago, 91baby said:@UpliftingCat thankyou for your response, very informative
I totally understand it is hard to be stuck at home for a week during the peeling process! I tend to feel a little "stir-crazy" myself during the healing process and not seeing the sun at all 7-8 days. You should be fine with your doctor doing the 25%. Has she performed peels before? My experience with the pit forming may have been a rarity but I still stand by my statement that there is an art to peeling and experience matters especially when you get into the higher acid-concentrations or medium-depth peels. It is great you have experience with 40% Glycolic but glycolic is definitely a different ballgame than TCA. I have done quite a few glycolic peels myself but I would say TCA is a little more technique dependent plus it hurts a lot more.
@UpliftingCatyes I've heard tca will hurt more, what i like about it is that it reaches a 'burning limit' and then it stops, where as with the glycolic the sting gets worse and worse. Thanks again for your input i will make sure to be careful!
is it an actual fact that skin is less likely to burn, scar, be damaged etc if its had peels done before at lower percentages before peeling at a higher %? Or is the prepping part at a low % more to see if you can actually tolerate it?
2 hours ago, 91baby said:@UpliftingCatyes I've heard tca will hurt more, what i like about it is that it reaches a 'burning limit' and then it stops, where as with the glycolic the sting gets worse and worse. Thanks again for your input i will make sure to be careful!is it an actual fact that skin is less likely to burn, scar, be damaged etc if its had peels done before at lower percentages before peeling at a higher %? Or is the prepping part at a low % more to see if you can actually tolerate it?
That's a good question. Scientifically, I am not sure as none of this has been addressed in my research. With peels, the doctors' goal should be to get the most improvement without compromising the skin more than it needs to be. With that goal in mind, it makes sense to progressively built up to a higher percentage of acid or a more aggressive peel rather than starting with an aggressive peel initially. You certainly don't want to peel the skin deeper than it needs to be because the deeper you peel, the higher risk for complications. Going back to my earlier comments, realistically to get improvements with scarring you need to peel into the lower papillary dermis to the upper reticular dermis. The skin can scar with a medium-depth peel regardless of whether you build up or not however, starting slow will make you and your doctor aware of what to expect somewhat with healing. For example, every single peel I do I break out from the inflammation and the emollient I apply. I am glad I discovered this complication with a lighter peel as opposed to a medium depth so my doctor and I could develop a plan for subsequent peels.In addition, my skin stays red a lot less longer than it did when I started doing the peels even though the peels have gotten stronger. I know this doesn't answer your question exactly but I hope it helps!
@UpliftingCat thankyou that does help! I actually broke out a bit (woke up to it this morning) and i haven't broken out in aaaages and i was thinking maybe it was the peel! I might start taking doxycyline again before & during peels! Good to know
i have one last question (sorry to annoy you haha) ! What doesn't make sense to me about peels is that with things like sun damage/sun burn/etc, we're always told that this kind of burn is aging and damaging to skin but with a chemical peel, its meant to help..? Can you tell me why this is? If you know? Thanks heaps!
34 minutes ago, 91baby said:@UpliftingCat thankyou that does help! I actually broke out a bit (woke up to it this morning) and i haven't broken out in aaaages and i was thinking maybe it was the peel! I might start taking doxycyline again before & during peels! Good to knowi have one last question (sorry to annoy you haha) ! What doesn't make sense to me about peels is that with things like sun damage/sun burn/etc, we're always told that this kind of burn is aging and damaging to skin but with a chemical peel, its meant to help..? Can you tell me why this is? If you know? Thanks heaps!
I understand this seems a bit contradicting. When you get a sunburn your skin turns red and may blister and/or peel if the burn is bad enough. The same type of process happens with a chemical peel. So basically, with a sunburn or even a suntan, the radiation from the sun is causing DNA damage to the cells. Both the UVA and the UVB rays penetrate deep into the skin and attack the elastin and collagen of the skin as well as increase the production of free radicals. With chemical peels, even though it is a controlled burn, there is no UVA or UVB rays that are breaking down the collagen and tangling the elastin of the skin. As a matter of fact, if you were an individual with a lot of sun damage and got a biopsy prior to a peel you would likely see that collagen fibers before peeling were disordered and about 90 days post peel the collagen should lay in more organized, parallel arrays.
6 minutes ago, 91baby said:Someone pleeeease explain to me why scarring looks SO much better in the morning?! Is it that it looks better in the morning than it actually is? Or is it that the scarring actually isnt as bad as what it looks like in the afternoon?!
serious question
Happens a lot from what I see on the forums, maybe something to do with puffiness and swelling from sleeping and also you not being completely awake to notice it haha. Plus it's less bright in morning (depends on what time you wake up!)