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I don't like using the fastest speed, because it seems that (by looking at the depth indicator on the screen) it seldom gets to full depth? So I tend to stick to medium speed, and take my time slowly circling over my cheeks.
I can't do it without some sort of lubrication though, because it doesn't move smoothly for me. I use saline solution.
3 hours ago, SteVen1988 said:I don't like using the fastest speed, because it seems that (by looking at the depth indicator on the screen) it seldom gets to full depth? So I tend to stick to medium speed, and take my time slowly circling over my cheeks.
I can't do it without some sort of lubrication though, because it doesn't move smoothly for me. I use saline solution.
I have wondered about the depth indicator although I've never looked at it whilst needling otherwise I wouldn't be able to see what I'm doing. It is one thing to look at it when you're just needling air but I have wondered how it reacts when it comes up against the skin/resistance.
Anyway, interesting point. I will consider using the medium setting next time myself. I guess that by using the fast setting it gave me the belief that it would be delivering maximum needle depth penetration, which may or may not be true. I think the motor is supposed to deal with this kind of thing no matter which setting though. At least by taking things that little bit slower, it allows us to be a bit more thorough. Otherwise it's just duh-duh-duh-duh-duh-duh... done.
Good point also about lubrication. I used some cleansing wipes beforehand but perhaps that didn't provide enough moisture on the skin. Like I said, I didn't find it particularly easy to manoeuvre over surface of the skin. Moisture should help with that.
On 6/3/2016 at 8:04 PM, holdingontohope said:Any reason you guys chose the derminator over the roller/pen/stamp? Apologies if you said earlier in the thread. Didn't read everything.
I was impressed by the video demonstration and it seems popular in the scar community. I dont know a ton about other dermapens but Im pretty sure the derminator is a good option.
I dont mean to be one of those people that acts like their scars are cured after one needling session, but I think its a good sign to see some of my scars changing shape this early. Its been almost 3 weeks since my first treatment, and at this rate I would estimate it will take 2 years for any kind of improvement that other people would notice.
27 minutes ago, QuanHenry said:I was impressed by the video demonstration and it seems popular in the scar community. I dont know a ton about other dermapens but Im pretty sure the derminator is a good option.I dont mean to be one of those people that acts like their scars are cured after one needling session, but I think its a good sign to see some of my scars changing shape this early. Its been almost 3 weeks since my first treatment, and at this rate I would estimate it will take 2 years for any kind of improvement that other people would notice.
You have a good mindset knowing that it's going to take a couple years to see solid improvement. With acne scars, it's a marathon not a sprint.
Well I can definitely see improvement on some of my scars already, I wish I had a before picture of my temple, one of the shallow scars there has totally filled in. Im just concerned about the one that looks wider, and the two little ones I created going forward with treatment. I hate my scars enough to stick with it though.
22 hours ago, QuanHenry said:I was impressed by the video demonstration and it seems popular in the scar community. I dont know a ton about other dermapens but Im pretty sure the derminator is a good option.I dont mean to be one of those people that acts like their scars are cured after one needling session, but I think its a good sign to see some of my scars changing shape this early. Its been almost 3 weeks since my first treatment, and at this rate I would estimate it will take 2 years for any kind of improvement that other people would notice.
Needling def creates lots of swelling. Not to get you down or anything, I do think overtime it may work, but I think anyone here who swells knows its a good thing.
59 minutes ago, holdingontohope said:Needling def creates lots of swelling. Not to get you down or anything, I do think overtime it may work, but I think anyone here who swells knows its a good thing.
My swelling was gone after about a week. If the treatment works you should see new collagen begin to form 2 or 3 weeks afterwards. Scars changing shape and rising slightly is not swelling, it is collagen remodeling. Ive been through microswelling and collagen remodeling with lasers before so I know what Im looking at is not swelling.
The notion that needling randomly starts working after a year just isnt true. I think its that each session really doesnt do a whole lot, and it takes a dozen or so rounds for the untrained eye to see the difference.
18 hours ago, QuanHenry said:My swelling was gone after about a week. If the treatment works you should see new collagen begin to form 2 or 3 weeks afterwards. Scars changing shape and rising slightly is not swelling, it is collagen remodeling. Ive been through microswelling and collagen remodeling with lasers before so I know what Im looking at is not swelling.The notion that needling randomly starts working after a year just isnt true. I think its that each session really doesnt do a whole lot, and it takes a dozen or so rounds for the untrained eye to see the difference.
Do you have any pics? Before? After? During? Do you bleed? Do you get really red afterwards? Scabbing?
Im not going to share my journey here if the response to anything I say is "pics or didnt happen". Pictures are totally worthless unless they are taken with a machine in an office. Ive had them taken by a doctor for the past 5 years, but I cant just pop in for pics whenever I feel like it.
Are you denying that collagen remodeling can start after 2-3 weeks?
9 minutes ago, QuanHenry said:Im not going to share my journey here if the response to anything I say is "pics or didnt happen". Pictures are totally worthless unless they are taken with a machine in an office. Ive had them taken by a doctor for the past 5 years, but I cant just pop in for pics whenever I feel like it.
Are you denying that collagen remodeling can start after 2-3 weeks?
Interested in pics just to see the effects from the Derminator..I am googling it and trying to learn more about it. Not denying anything.
Where did you read that collagen starts forming at 2-3 week point after needling? Doesn't it start right after the needling, and end when the wounds are sealed? Does this mean that, for more extreme treatments like CO2 laser, you only start seeing results after two or three weeks as well?
I thought dermarolling was based on the idea that thin needle pricks don't leave scars, so when you break up scar tissue with thin needles, it becomes normal tissue?
On 6/9/2016 at 6:10 PM, holdingontohope said:Interested in pics just to see the effects from the Derminator..I am googling it and trying to learn more about it. Not denying anything.
Sorry, I misunderstood your post. Like I said I dont like taking my own before/after shots because they are always misleading. The difference between my scars and a month ago is relatively minor, but enough that I can see a difference and am optimistic that a dozen or so session will produce noticeable results. I had a few spots of pinpoint bleeding after my treatment, and my cheeks where I did 1.5 were very red afterwards. If you go back a page or two youll see when I came on here and panicked about how red I got, but it settled down after about an hour and was back to normal after 5-7 days
On 6/9/2016 at 7:02 PM, PerkyPull said:Where did you read that collagen starts forming at 2-3 week point after needling? Doesn't it start right after the needling, and end when the wounds are sealed? Does this mean that, for more extreme treatments like CO2 laser, you only start seeing results after two or three weeks as well?
I thought dermarolling was based on the idea that thin needle pricks don't leave scars, so when you break up scar tissue with thin needles, it becomes normal tissue?
Ive read several doctors say the new collagen can be seen as soon as 2 or 3 weeks, and can continue for months, just google it.You wouldnt notice any improvement in that time frame from laser because you will still be swollen and red, though the healing would hopefully still be going on underneath.
A great big thank you to the users on this board who influenced me to purchase a derminator. My scars are definitely responding well.
I finally had the courage to post pictures of my scars on realself and had a few good replies. They encouraged me to continue needling, and to go up to the full 2 or 2.25mm, and to do tca peels. My next treatment purchase will be subcison with fillers. I think I am done with energy devices altogether.
I never used another needling device, but I just assumed derminator was an affordable quality dermapen.
Dont feel like making a thread for this, but you guys might be intererested in the best reply I got on realself. Got a couple generic "fraxel is the gold standard blah blah blah" replies. Had a couple other replies saying I should continue needling and do subcision with fillers. This guy seems to get it. Even though he is 2 hours away I might go to him for subcision/fillers and maybe tca cross.
"I am not surprised by the lack of success with a one-size-fits-all fraxel laser treatment series. If you have seen any of my other acne scar treatment answers, it should be clear that I am not much of a fan of them (nor of many of the other energy-based devices, like radiofrequency and ultrasound machines)--finding them relatively expensive and disappointingly far more device manufacturer backed marketing hype than hard science.
Fortunately, a few tried and true and comparatively inexpensive approaches may lead to more gratifying results. Depressed scars should be elevated by subcision to break up the tethering bands of scar tissue that are pulling the scars downward followed by the injection of a filler to further elevate and support the skin and to additionally promote new, native collagen and elastin fiber synthesis. I share your hesitation about the use of permanent fillers, such as Bellafill, since permanent means if anything goes wrong, early on or even many years later--as sometimes happens--or you don't like the results, you are permanently stuck with them.
Pit scars can be treated with the TCA CROSS Technique, using either the traditional full strength TCA or full strength phenol.
Medical microneedling treatments, perhaps using needle lengths up to 2.5mm can subsequently be used to blend better any residual surface tone and textural irregularities the treated scars with the surrounding normal skin.
Finally, sunken areas, such as appears to be the case at least with the right cheek can be volumized with a volumizing filler, which would serve two purposes: one to elevate the hollowing and secondly to stretch the overlying skin and by virtue of making it more taut make the overlying scars more shallow and less visible (i.e. less of the so-called "craters on the moon" shadowing that makes depressed scars more visible and outstanding)."
5 hours ago, QuanHenry said:I never used another needling device, but I just assumed derminator was an affordable quality dermapen.
Dont feel like making a thread for this, but you guys might be intererested in the best reply I got on realself. Got a couple generic "fraxel is the gold standard blah blah blah" replies. Had a couple other replies saying I should continue needling and do subcision with fillers. This guy seems to get it. Even though he is 2 hours away I might go to him for subcision/fillers and maybe tca cross.
"I am not surprised by the lack of success with a one-size-fits-all fraxel laser treatment series. If you have seen any of my other acne scar treatment answers, it should be clear that I am not much of a fan of them (nor of many of the other energy-based devices, like radiofrequency and ultrasound machines)--finding them relatively expensive and disappointingly far more device manufacturer backed marketing hype than hard science.
Fortunately, a few tried and true and comparatively inexpensive approaches may lead to more gratifying results. Depressed scars should be elevated by subcision to break up the tethering bands of scar tissue that are pulling the scars downward followed by the injection of a filler to further elevate and support the skin and to additionally promote new, native collagen and elastin fiber synthesis. I share your hesitation about the use of permanent fillers, such as Bellafill, since permanent means if anything goes wrong, early on or even many years later--as sometimes happens--or you don't like the results, you are permanently stuck with them.
Pit scars can be treated with the TCA CROSS Technique, using either the traditional full strength TCA or full strength phenol.
Medical microneedling treatments, perhaps using needle lengths up to 2.5mm can subsequently be used to blend better any residual surface tone and textural irregularities the treated scars with the surrounding normal skin.
Finally, sunken areas, such as appears to be the case at least with the right cheek can be volumized with a volumizing filler, which would serve two purposes: one to elevate the hollowing and secondly to stretch the overlying skin and by virtue of making it more taut make the overlying scars more shallow and less visible (i.e. less of the so-called "craters on the moon" shadowing that makes depressed scars more visible and outstanding)."
This sounds like Dr. Novick? His answers on RealSelf are always so great. He seems like a doctor I would want to see for treatment as well. If you end up going I would be really interested to hear how it goes! There was actually a recent thread with someone talking about seeing him for subcision + fillers. Hope your next treatment goes well!