I've used this technique for some years now (the Derminator for 1.5 years) and my best tips for you guys are:
1. Test and see how your skin reacts. Start soft. Also, hygiene. Super important.
2. Feel your skin, where can you go deep and where can you not? If you are doing the face, just touch your face and feel, you can go deepers on your cheeks than on your forehead for example. I started out with 0.5 on forehead/ 1.0 temples / 1.5 on cheeks but now I'm at 1.0 at forehead / 1.25 temples and 2.0 cheeks
3. Count with downtime. For me I usually need 4-5 days. At least. So I plan to do it on certain weekends and holidays.
4. Use a good moisturizer afterwards to speed up the recovering process (I don't use Vit C / Retin A and such things, I believe a moisturizer is good enough).
5. Please wait at least 10 days until you look yourself in the mirror closely again. The closest days after needling will mostly be swelling anyways. So hypertrophic (raised, do not needle keloid) scars might seem worse than they are and sunken scars will seem better.
Last but not least: PATIENCE. If you really got patience, go ahead! This will take time, and you will have to do it a couple of times before seeing good results.
Nice one, Julian. Good to hear from someone else with experience.
At how frequent intervals have you been needling over the past year-and-a-half and after how many sessions did you have before you started noticing improvement? I'd also be interested to know which type of scarring you've found to respond best, where it is located and if you noticed substantial improvement after choosing to up the needle length.
Thanks!
20 hours ago, Paul B said:Nice one, Julian. Good to hear from someone else with experience.
At how frequent intervals have you been needling over the past year-and-a-half and after how many sessions did you have before you started noticing improvement? I'd also be interested to know which type of scarring you've found to respond best, where it is located and if you noticed substantial improvement after choosing to up the needle length.
Thanks!
I haven't been frequent with the Derminator due to work related stuff, I have only used it 4 times during this period, but before that I used stamps maybe 6 times.
I started noticing improvement maybe after the 2nd session but after a while, when I learned how deep I could go with the needles the sessions became better and better. Now I feel an improvement after every session.
Boxcar scars have worked great for me, they are still there but they are not deep anymore and havek ind of transformed just like soft lines when I smile (they are on my temples). I also felt rolling scars are effective. I got a big raised (hypertrophic) scar on my cheek that has been improved as well but not as much as I wanted to, I have just crushed the scar tissue with the stamps/Derminator and used a "pressure technique", pressuring the scar with my thumb for 20 seconds 3 times a week after needling, but I've heard of silicon sheets and stuff as well that might work.
I found improvement when I upped the needle length but test your skin first and read, read and read.
Information is your best tool to deal with scars 
Seriously though, thanks again for all the information, especially BA.
Ill be doing my first treatment tomorrow at 1.5 on the cheeks, 1.0 temples, and .5 forehead. If all goes well I will go up to 2.0 on my cheeks, and needle every 4-5 weeks until October. Ill be using and HA and vitamin C serum, and epiduo topically during that time. My laser doc offered me a round of fraxel duals at no cost to him, which I plan on doing in November/December. Total cost of the needling and fraxels should be around $500 which feels like my best option at this time. If I am confident with my progress I will be able to post before/after pics taken in the office sometime next year.
I was anxious and decided to do it tonight and just finished. My face is very red, is this normal? I hope 1.5 wasnt too much. My cheeks are super red right now. Temples and forehead are about as pink as I was expecting.
Edit: Okay sorry for the panic post. My cheeks were absolutely on fire right after the treatment but it seems to be calming down. Looks on par with 4 or 5 days downtime.
2 hours ago, QuanHenry said:I was anxious and decided to do it tonight and just finished. My face is very red, is this normal? I hope 1.5 wasnt too much. My cheeks are super red right now. Temples and forehead are about as pink as I was expecting.
Edit: Okay sorry for the panic post. My cheeks were absolutely on fire right after the treatment but it seems to be calming down. Looks on par with 4 or 5 days downtime.
keep us posted!
couple questions:did you use the timer feature or just do it on your own? also, is 1.5 too aggressive for temples?
31 minutes ago, BlueDog88 said:keep us posted!couple questions:did you use the timer feature or just do it on your own? also, is 1.5 too aggressive for temples?
I started with the timer, but I felt like I had a couple more passes in me so I finished up in manual mode as per BA's advice. I did 1.5 on the cheeks, .75 on the temples, and .5 on the forehead. The area I covered with 1.5 was so red I thought I screwed up by making too many passes when I finished. I applied the copper peptide mask from owndoc immediately after and it felt cool and soothing. After about 45 minutes the scary redness on my cheeks began to settle down. After an hour and half I tried vitamin C serum on my temple, but there was a tingle/burning. It wasnt unbearable, but I think my skin was saying "no thanks" so I didnt do my cheeks.
Now about 2.5 hours after the session the redness isnt an issue, and I have a pinkish glow I was expecting. My skin does seem tighter and my cheeks look tight when I smile, though that may just be micro swelling.
Thanks for the PRP info, BA - and well done QuanHenry for taking the plunge.
I have prepared some Vit C in readiness for my own session but I found the OwnDoc instructions to not be as clear as they could be. The write-up on the website seems to conflict not only with itself but with the instructions on their packet of Vit C so I wasn't sure if you are supposed to dissolve it in boiling water, hot water or lukewarm water. I boiled some water and let it cool down to a certain extent before mixing it.
This is what I mean about the instructions being confusing! It says about not needing to worry about degradation from heat.
I'll quote it here for the record...
Pre-treat your skin with vitaminC four days before rolling /needling toachieve maximum skin concentration.
To make your own vitaminC serum which is extremely beneficial totheskin, you need:
- Water. Boil thewater toexpel dissolved oxygen before you dissolve thevitaminC when thewater has cooled off so that you can put afinger init.
- L-Ascorbic acid (powdered crystals ofvitaminC) can be bought inour web store. Do NOT use vitaminC tablets ofany kind. Only 100 % pure crystals ofL-Ascorbic acid should be used.
- A sealable container. It must be possible toclose airtight because vitaminC oxidizes easily. It is degraded byair, light andheat. It will last at least amonth ina nearly full, sealed container inthefridge. Even without heeding theadvised precautions it should last two weeks. We sell small brown glass flasks, perfect tokeep vitaminC serum fresh.
MAKING A5% VITAMINC SOLUTION
Put half ofaflat teaspoon ofvitaminC into thesmall brown bottle we sell andadd tenflat teaspoons ofhot water.
With flat it is meant that thevitaminC should not be heaped onto thespoon but lyingflat, just like thewater intheteaspoon. If you wish toprepare alarger quantity tobe storedinalarger container, use 19 teaspoons ofwater and1 flat spoon ofvitaminC. Alternatively,you can use table spoons instead ofteaspoons, orany other method toreliable add onepart ofvitaminC to19 parts ofwater. Shake until thecrystals have dissolved. Thewarmerthewater, thefaster this goes. This 5 % vitaminC solution still has theconsistencyof water andtastes slightly acidic. There is no need toworry that warm water will degradethevitaminC. VitaminC is degraded byfood enzymes at lukewarm temperature ranges,andregardless, thewater will cool off while you spoon it into thecontainer. It is best tousevery hot water, because thewarmer thewater has been heated, theless dissolved oxygenit contains andoxygen degrades vitaminC much more than hot water does. VitaminCdissolves poorly incold water.
Applying vitaminC every second orthird day is sufficient. VitaminC remains intheskinforseveral days, gradually diminishing inconcentration. VitaminC is not fat-solublesobefore you apply it you must remove oils from your skin, otherwise thevitaminC willnot be able topenetrate your skin through theoily layer.
Apply vitaminC intheevening since it is sensitive tosunlight.
Use your hand oracotton pad toapply it andwash it off thenext morning.
- Recommendation: Wash your skin with oil-free cleanser orsoap, apply vitaminC serum,wait forhalf anhour orso andthen apply theInfadolan ointment.
- Prepare small quantities ofvitaminC serum at atime, toensure it is always freshandun-oxidized. You should make anew batch approximately once every 20 days.
- If thevitaminC serum is too irritating toyour skin, add more water. If your skin shows noirritation you can add more vitaminC powder toyour container.
IF YOU DECIDE TOAPPLY VITAMIN C SERUM TOFRESHLYROLLED, OPEN SKIN, TRY WITH AMUCH MORE DILUTEDSOLUTION FIRST (AND/OR DO ASMALL TEST PATCH FIRST)BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE CAN EXPERIENCE ABURNINGREACTION. GRADUALLY INCREASE THESTRENGTH UNTILYOU KNOW YOUR SKIN CAN HANDLE IT.
from: http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf
Hehe, it's just another variable to add to the mix... not only how you prepare your vitamin C (or even if you do it yourself) but which strength you make it or how often and when you apply it.
Oh well, we can only experiment, document our experiences and see who has the best results. Even then it probably won't be clear on what is the best course of action in this respect.
At least taking a daily 1000mg oral dose of Vitamin C is simple enough...
My boxcar scars seem to be responding from the first treatment, and I dont think its just microswelling. I know its too early to judge but any improvement is exciting considering a needling session will only cost me a $4 cartridge a month.
They appear to be mending similar to the way they did when I had my fraxels.
Is anyone here willing to buy derminator needles for me, and then ship them to me?
My country is on their "banned" list, but I was able to purchase a derminator by using a UK forwarding company.
Now, they are refusing to sell me more needles, even through the forwarding company.
I also need a new magnet, as mine has started rusting and I'm worried that it will stop working soon.
I would, of course, pay you for shipping etc via PayPal plus a suitable "tip" for your troubles, in advance.
I think I developed two new very small scars from my needling session. They are so small I cant see them in natural light, but they appear in angled lighting. I had zits there a few months ago that seemed to heal just fine.
The rest of my scars seem the same or a little better, but not any worse. I am a little nervous to needle again though. Any suggestions?
I've decided to jump on board this derminator train and ordered mine today. I must have had about 6 or 7 dermarolling/dermapen plus TCA cross sessions with Dr. Chu at Hammersmith over the years, but it's very hard for me to gauge what, if any, results I've achieved. The TCA cross I'm sure has made certain scars shallower, yet overall I'm not sure how effective the dermapen has actually been. Dr. Chu performed subcision on me once for some of the deeper scars, which I think helped somewhat. But it's always been hard to judge, because I have very sensitive skin which seems to look a thousand times worse some days than on others... it doesn't feel very 'stable' at all. I apply isotrexin every night, on Dr. Chu's recommendation, to try to deal with all the congestion going on, but after almost a year I can't say it's had any noticeable effect. My skin tone and texture is absolutely awful... clogged pores, marks, and general blotchiness everywhere in addition to ice pick and rolling scars and huge scarred pores over my cheeks. I also have raised scarring on the sides of my chin.
Anyway, to cut a long story short, I figure I have nothing to lose by attempting to treat my scarring myself. I'll of course be following instructions closely. To be honest, I don't have very high hopes of substantial improvement, but if I'm able over time to achieve any kind of progress I'll be extremely happy. Meanwhile, I'm also looking into lactic or glycolic peels to see whether they might have any effect on my tone and texture issues. Is anyone else located in the UK able to give a heads up as to trustworthy sources for either? Later on, I'd also maybe like to undertake TCA cross myself, although I'm feeling a bit of a chicken when it comes to that at the moment.
Good luck to all.
Its been 8 days since my first session and I like what I am seeing for the most part. Most of the scars still seem a little more shallow and some have slightly changed shape which tells me the collagen is remodeling.
It seems like the healing process is the most important part, so Ill be needling every 5 weeks instead of 4, going for 5 treatments over the next 6.
I did what I'd consider to be my first "proper" Derminator session last night. 1.5mm on temples and 2.25mm on cheeks. Even the 2.25mm was easily tolerable. I had reservations about using 1.5 on the temples but in hindsight I feel I could have gone even deeper. Anyways, we'll see what happens.
Am I the only one who finds it a bit awkward when it comes to the procedure itself? Practising circular motions with no needles pumping is one thing but when it comes to the real thing I find it difficult to move it around in such a smooth way over the skin. I almost feel as if I am just skimming the surface or even dragging the needles along sideways. Of course, the needles are going in and out so quickly that you can't really do that but it's a strange sensation.
What speed setting do you folks use? I'm guessing fast... that's what I have been using. However, I'm wondering if it might be better to go slower as it might allow me to judge what's going in where and how many times. Clearly the blood and redness is an indicator, but it's difficult to judge. You don't want to overdo or underdo things.
Again though, as previously discussed - the timer gives guidelines as to how long to treat an area, but I think we always think that we can do a bit more - and then after we've done that, wonder if that is still enough. It kind of all adds up to a bit of guesswork. For example, I did a 5cm x 3cm area that comes up as 16 secs on the timer recommendation. Having circled my way over that entire area for that time, it still feels as if that is not enough... so I then spent an indeterminate amount of time going over the area again. Anyone got any tips on knowing when enough is enough?
It is definitely something you have to learn from experience from I think. It's something we'll have to do a few times in order to perfect, but if anyone has any tips on the subject - please share.
By the way, for anyone using 2.25mm - how many weeks do you wait before needling the same area again?
I will make note of how long the redness lasts for, and would be interested to know how many days post-treatment you folks tend to stay red for using which settings.
I use the fastest speed. I didnt find pain to be an issue at all. It feels like plucking an eyebrow whereas fraxel felt like being cut with a scalpel.
I dont know how long to needle for. Most doctors do about 30 seconds per cheek in youtube videos, which is close to the recommendation of the timer. I think Davin Lim recommends 8-16 passes with a roller, so Im aiming for something like that.
Im a little worried about needling at 2.0 on my cheeks, I dont exactly know what I am doing, and I dont want to learn about any negative effects the hard way.
I'm only just starting out so can't realistically expect to have seen any kind of results to date. Indeed, the two sessions I have done so far can be considered as "experimental". Indeed, I'm already writing off the one I did the other day as the redness has already subsided along with most of the microswelling. My gut feeling at the time was that it was too conservative and I think that's going to prove to be the case.
Up until now I have mostly been reading up on the subject and trying to gauge what to do for the best, hence starting this thread. However, you can only learn from experience to a large extent. Of course, I'd like to do everything right the first time around but I just don't think that's practical. I have read a lot of people talk about the importance of drawing blood and redness so that's what I will look to do next time around. I'm not saying I didn't, but just not enough I don't think. Without wanting to go from one extreme to the other, I definitely think I have been too cautious in my first couple of "test runs". For this reason, my view at this early stage is I think that we probably shouldn't pay much attention to the timer function at all - and rather use our own best judgement. Remember, a Derminator isn't just marketed as being for scars - but things like wrinkles too and general skin rejuvenation. Who's to say that you should use the device in the same way for that kind of thing as you would a scar? To me, the mere fact that we are trying to tackle scar tissue here means we should be taking a bit more of a "hardcore" approach.