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Hi Liquid, thanks for the great post.
I have been trying to get rid of my scars for so many months now. My progress has been very slow. I have been trying 1.5 rolling, but in the last few months I started stamping every 4 weeks. I was also doing 0.5 rolling between 1.5s. But after reading more about it evidence suggest doing 0.5 in between is not a good idea since even 0.5 needs at least 4 weeks to start producing collagen. Besides it hasn't added much improvement. Do you roll or stamp with 0.5 in between 1.5 sessions? Also I think I ll increase 1.5 frequency to 6 weeks from 4.
Have you used Retin-A? again I am not sure its doing anything for me. I am also using copper peptides daily (mornings) Vitamin C few evenings a week not sure if they are doing anything either. Do you use or have you ever used copper peptides?
I think the best and safest topicals for me so far have been the natural oils, such as argan, rose hip, vitamin E, they are a bit shiny but my skin feels better with them also I think they increase healing time, could be because they keep my skin moist..
Thanks all..
No, I don't stamp with 0.5mm inbetween. I think I done it early on once or twice but quickly stopped. Stamping too frequently is probably the most common reason why people don't get results. I don't understand why people overlook this important step and are confused when they don't get satisfactory results.
Never used retin-a or copper peptides. I hate the idea that your skin has to look worse before it looks better. If you have sensitive skin like me I really recommend Post Laser Cream by Mesoestetic.
Hi Liquid,
Thanks for a great post. When you stamped, did you stamp till your face bleed?
I didn't stamp with the intention of making myself bleed, but you should expect some blood with 1.5mm needles.
Thanks liquid. I'll stamp only every 6 weeks from now on and see how it goes. How densely do you stamp your scars btw? Is it enough to stamp each noticeable scar just once?
Way more than once. It's important to be very thorough but clearly there's a threshold you shouldn't cross. When I stamped it was more of an instinctual thing rather than stamping a certain number of times. Try to be very aware of how your skin heals after each treatment and how your results are coming along overall.
Can it improve ice pick scars, redness, uneven texture and skintone? I have bought my 1.5 dermaroller and haven't rolled my full face yet.
I think it's great for everything you mentioned except ice pick scars. I've never had ice pick scars so can't say whether it will improve them.
Keep reading positive things on the dermaroller and stamp.. still scared I'll end up doing something stupid with it and making the situation worse.
Nothing to worry about mate as long as you do your research and use your common sense.
Hey Liquid, just wanted to stop by and say thanks for coming back and updating us with your amazing results!
Your skin looks amazing. If thats how it looks in harsh lighting It must look near perfect in regular lighting 
I've read a few sucess stories about needling (rolling, stamping etc) and the one thing that i've noticed they all had in common was that these people stamped or rolled for close to 2 years! Appears as this is the normal time frame to get excepational results, such as yours.
I am stamping every 4-5 weeks my fifth treatment is coming up soon. I've noticed some change in a couple of scars but nothing crazy yet. I am going to stick with it though, hopefully I will get results similar to yours!
I don't have the means to get an intercel treatment just yet so I hope just stamping alone will make some changes in my scars!
Thanks
I had my temple dermarolled for box scars almost a week ago. . I don't see any improvement. They are going back after swelling.
Dermarolling tends to take more than one application to witness any changes, in fact most people don't report anything until after 1-2 years of consistent rolling
I've purchased an LED light -red&infrared (660/880) and will be using that on my next dermastamping session. I've also ordered the Treproline but that won't arrive until 2 weeks after my session... should I still use it? Or wait until my 6th dermastamp session and use after the stamping?
@Liquid could you please clairfy something for me...did you use the treproline everyday? Or only post roll during healing/inflammation? Also, did you apply it prior to using the LED or after using LED? Lol just wanna make sure I get it right for my next stamping session!
Btw, seems as if you and Lamarr's method is quite similar (minus the intracel,PRP etc) he was also needling, using treproline and using LED's. Seeing as you both got rid of your scars shows me that it's worth it to give these products a shot.
I will keep everybody updated!
What we have learned here is that patience, stamping and maybe LEDs are the most important things. How important is it for the scars to be moisturized after the stamping? I have not moisturized them very much and I have been stamping for 3,5 months now and I also don't use any creams or LEDS. I believe I can see some small improvement already but I'm not expecting anything decent until after a year.
I've purchased an LED light -red&infrared (660/880) and will be using that on my next dermastamping session. I've also ordered the Treproline but that won't arrive until 2 weeks after my session... should I still use it? Or wait until my 6th dermastamp session and use after the stamping?
Btw, seems as if you and Lamarr's method is quite similar (minus the intracel,PRP etc) he was also needling, using treproline and using LED's. Seeing as you both got rid of your scars shows me that it's worth it to give these products a shot.
I will keep everybody updated!
I'm really curious of LEDS but some posts have made me aware of using them.. Do you think it is legit or not? Can there be any possible side effects?
What we have learned here is that patience, stamping and maybe LEDs are the most important things. How important is it for the scars to be moisturized after the stamping? I have not moisturized them very much and I have been stamping for 3,5 months now and I also don't use any creams or LEDS. I believe I can see some small improvement already but I'm not expecting anything decent until after a year.
I've purchased an LED light -red&infrared (660/880) and will be using that on my next dermastamping session. I've also ordered the Treproline but that won't arrive until 2 weeks after my session... should I still use it? Or wait until my 6th dermastamp session and use after the stamping?
Btw, seems as if you and Lamarr's method is quite similar (minus the intracel,PRP etc) he was also needling, using treproline and using LED's. Seeing as you both got rid of your scars shows me that it's worth it to give these products a shot.
I will keep everybody updated!
I'm really curious of LEDS but some posts have made me aware of using them.. Do you think it is legit or not? Can there be any possible side effects?
Hey Julian,
I second that, patience is definitely a must! It seems we are both at the same pace for our derma stamping. My 5th one's coming up
, so excited! I agree with you I think it will take at least a year to really see some good results and maybe even longer to see excellent results. How long are you waiting between your stamping sessions? Now about the LED's... According to the research I have read they seem pretty legit. As far as side effects are concerned you are absolutely right to feel apprehensive, I mean after all we don't want to make things worse while to try make our scars better. According to my research, (Oh gosh, I sound like Dorothy Ann from the Magic School Bus 
) I didn't find anything to crazy as far side effects go, but I do know that Light Therapy is used by oncologists for the treatment of cancers, so seems pretty safe to me! I would suggest read a few studies on LED's and see how you feel. Check out this link as I found it had a lot of great information http://www.syrolight...n-wound-healing . I will update once I start using my LED device and let you know if it makes a difference 
On another note, I wonder is it merely coincidental that both Liquid and Lamarr had such great success with their scars given that they were both using LED's? Of course everything else combined gave them the results they achieved, as well as not giving up and being persistent, but maybe the LED's also helped to some extent, I mean clearly it didn't hurt their final outcome.
I've purchased an LED light -red&infrared (660/880) and will be using that on my next dermastamping session. I've also ordered the Treproline but that won't arrive until 2 weeks after my session... should I still use it? Or wait until my 6th dermastamp session and use after the stamping?
@Liquid could you please clairfy something for me...did you use the treproline everyday? Or only post roll during healing/inflammation? Also, did you apply it prior to using the LED or after using LED? Lol just wanna make sure I get it right for my next stamping session!
Btw, seems as if you and Lamarr's method is quite similar (minus the intracel,PRP etc) he was also needling, using treproline and using LED's. Seeing as you both got rid of your scars shows me that it's worth it to give these products a shot.
I will keep everybody updated!
I would apply Terproline once a day after treatment until skin is completely healed. Beyond that I don't use any topicals. You can apply it before or after LED, it doesn't really matter. I do LED before just to get it out the way.
I've purchased an LED light -red&infrared (660/880) and will be using that on my next dermastamping session. I've also ordered the Treproline but that won't arrive until 2 weeks after my session... should I still use it? Or wait until my 6th dermastamp session and use after the stamping?
@Liquid could you please clairfy something for me...did you use the treproline everyday? Or only post roll during healing/inflammation? Also, did you apply it prior to using the LED or after using LED? Lol just wanna make sure I get it right for my next stamping session!
Btw, seems as if you and Lamarr's method is quite similar (minus the intracel,PRP etc) he was also needling, using treproline and using LED's. Seeing as you both got rid of your scars shows me that it's worth it to give these products a shot.
I will keep everybody updated!
I would apply Terproline once a day after treatment until skin is completely healed. Beyond that I don't use any topicals. You can apply it before or after LED, it doesn't really matter. I do LED before just to get it out the way.
Hi pineappleXpress, I finally decided to go with the red/infrared 660/880 handheld from theledman.com and I am very excited. I have been using the 0.5 on my forehead every 3rd week, the 1.0 on my temples every 4th and the 1.5 on my chin every 6th weeks, however I plan to not stamp as much. I plan to use all the needles at the same time so I don't have as many downtime. Now I will also try with the LEDS and the Terproline Face Cream (not Professional).
I wonder if the skin is more sensitive to the sun when you use the LEDs every 6th weeks? I also hope the Terproline Face Cream will do (I cant afford Professional)
Liquid_Ocelot,
Would you say your improvement from needling is permanent? I was just doing some research, and like laser, some doctors, who practice the method, claim the improvement is temporary and must be repeated indefinitely to maintain results. Obviously this is a major disappointment to read. I can't find any studies that prove otherwise. I also don't fully understand how it can be temporary if the needles break up scar tissue that is replaced by normal, healthy collagen. How would scar tissue return without a traumatic injury? I understand collagen breaks down naturally but why would this cause scar tissue to return? Just curious to know your thoughts and experience on permanent improvement, especially as it relates to the surface texture of scarred skin.
Liquid_Ocelot,
Would you say your improvement from needling is permanent? I was just doing some research, and like laser, some doctors, who practice the method, claim the improvement is temporary and must be repeated indefinitely to maintain results. Obviously this is a major disappointment to read. I can't find any studies that prove otherwise. I also don't fully understand how it can be temporary if the needles break up scar tissue that is replaced by normal, healthy collagen. How would scar tissue return without a traumatic injury? I understand collagen breaks down naturally but why would this cause scar tissue to return? Just curious to know your thoughts and experience on permanent improvement, especially as it relates to the surface texture of scarred skin.
I got this from own doc
Regarding the permanency of results: It depends.
If you roll for scars and you manage to make them less indented, results should be permanent. I had a little scar on my forehead that improved greatly two years ago with needling and the result is still there today.
Improved hypopigmentation should be also permanent since dermarolling or needling in many cases trigger melanocytes (pigment-producing cells) or activate "dormant " melanocytes and those cells are going to stay unless you suffer from some kind of melanocyte production disorder.
Improved hyperpigmentation will likely get worse again with sun exposure without strong sun protection.
Improvements of hypertrophic scars should be permanent.
Dermarolling cannot stop aging so improved wrinkles or other signs of aging will not be permanent and need regular maintenance.
Acne scars or stretch marks might need occasional maintenance. Dermarolling is a relatively new procedure so there have no really long-term follow-ups done yet.
Liquid_Ocelot,
Would you say your improvement from needling is permanent? I was just doing some research, and like laser, some doctors, who practice the method, claim the improvement is temporary and must be repeated indefinitely to maintain results. Obviously this is a major disappointment to read. I can't find any studies that prove otherwise. I also don't fully understand how it can be temporary if the needles break up scar tissue that is replaced by normal, healthy collagen. How would scar tissue return without a traumatic injury? I understand collagen breaks down naturally but why would this cause scar tissue to return? Just curious to know your thoughts and experience on permanent improvement, especially as it relates to the surface texture of scarred skin.
I haven't treated my skin since Intracel which was around 6 months ago, and my skin is actually looking better than it did a few weeks after the treatment. I can't speak for everybody, but my results are definitely permanent. I think what they're referring to in those studies are wrinkles, skin quality, texture and things of that nature. Clearly you will have to maintain that regardless of how you're treating your skin as aging is an ongoing process.
Edit: I should note that this doesn't mean that anyone that uses dermaroller will also get permanant results. If you want permanent results then one of the most important things you have to do is boost your immune system and healing ability. The best way to do this is reinvigorate your diet. This doesn't mean going on some bullsh!t plant diet, this means eating healthy and balanced. Don't go extreme, it will only stress your body out even more. They say 70% of your immune system is located in your gut, so take care of it.
Liquid_Ocelot,
Would you say your improvement from needling is permanent? I was just doing some research, and like laser, some doctors, who practice the method, claim the improvement is temporary and must be repeated indefinitely to maintain results. Obviously this is a major disappointment to read. I can't find any studies that prove otherwise. I also don't fully understand how it can be temporary if the needles break up scar tissue that is replaced by normal, healthy collagen. How would scar tissue return without a traumatic injury? I understand collagen breaks down naturally but why would this cause scar tissue to return? Just curious to know your thoughts and experience on permanent improvement, especially as it relates to the surface texture of scarred skin.
I haven't treated my skin since Intracel which was around 6 months ago, and my skin is actually looking better than it did a few weeks after the treatment. I can't speak for everybody, but my results are definitely permanent. I think what they're referring to in those studies are wrinkles, skin quality, texture and things of that nature. Clearly you will have to maintain that regardless of how you're treating your skin as aging is an ongoing process.
Edit: I should note that this doesn't mean that anyone that uses dermaroller will also get permanant results. If you want permanent results then one of the most important things you have to do is boost your immune system and healing ability. The best way to do this is reinvigorate your diet. This doesn't mean going on some bullsh!t plant diet, this means eating healthy and balanced. Don't go extreme, it will only stress your body out even more. They say 70% of your immune system is located in your gut, so take care of it.
Hi,
Thanks for your reply.
I was actually referring to comments by doctors on Realself about scar improvement from needling being temporary. A couple doctors said the scars resurface about a year after you stop rolling. That is why I was curious to know your personal experience.
I am familiar with the studies you reference though and most are geared towards anti-aging. I would expect maintainance to be required.
I have to agree that owndoc is not the most reliable source of information as she is promoting her own products. Her posts are always biased and geared to benefit sales.
Liquid_Ocelot,
Would you say your improvement from needling is permanent? I was just doing some research, and like laser, some doctors, who practice the method, claim the improvement is temporary and must be repeated indefinitely to maintain results. Obviously this is a major disappointment to read. I can't find any studies that prove otherwise. I also don't fully understand how it can be temporary if the needles break up scar tissue that is replaced by normal, healthy collagen. How would scar tissue return without a traumatic injury? I understand collagen breaks down naturally but why would this cause scar tissue to return? Just curious to know your thoughts and experience on permanent improvement, especially as it relates to the surface texture of scarred skin.
I haven't treated my skin since Intracel which was around 6 months ago, and my skin is actually looking better than it did a few weeks after the treatment. I can't speak for everybody, but my results are definitely permanent. I think what they're referring to in those studies are wrinkles, skin quality, texture and things of that nature. Clearly you will have to maintain that regardless of how you're treating your skin as aging is an ongoing process.
Edit: I should note that this doesn't mean that anyone that uses dermaroller will also get permanant results. If you want permanent results then one of the most important things you have to do is boost your immune system and healing ability. The best way to do this is reinvigorate your diet. This doesn't mean going on some bullsh!t plant diet, this means eating healthy and balanced. Don't go extreme, it will only stress your body out even more. They say 70% of your immune system is located in your gut, so take care of it.
Hi,
Thanks for your reply.
I was actually referring to comments by doctors on Realself about scar improvement from needling being temporary. A couple doctors said the scars resurface about a year after you stop rolling. That is why I was curious to know your personal experience.
I am familiar with the studies you reference though and most are geared towards anti-aging. I would expect maintainance to be required.
I have to agree that owndoc is not the most reliable source of information as she is promoting her own products. Her posts are always biased and geared to benefit sales.
Yeah I wouldn't take their opinion very seriously. Your scars aren't going to magically reappear after a significant period of time. If your results are due to micro swelling then your skin will very quickly go back to the way it was. It won't suddenly happen after a year.
The lady at owndoc clearly has an agenda, which shows from her many contradictory comments. I think the products are fine, and many people have reviewed the products positively. I agree her opinion should be taken with a lot of salt.
For example, first she was against copper peptides, now she sells them and makes a lot of claims about their amazing abilities to speed healing. Next, she wrote a whole piece that criticized the electric dermpen type devices. Guess what? Now she is claiming that she is working with a manufacturer to bring her dermapen-like device to the market. She actually was selling a knock off dermapen device for a while, then stopped. She also keeps claiming that her products are superior and only sourced from the best manufacturers, but all her products are clearly sourced from the same chinese sellers you can find on Alibaba.com or a cursory search of Amazon and Ebay.
She can talk your ear off, but doesn't have much in the way of credibility.
The lady at owndoc clearly has an agenda, which shows from her many contradictory comments. I think the products are fine, and many people have reviewed the products positively. I agree her opinion should be taken with a lot of salt.
For example, first she was against copper peptides, now she sells them and makes a lot of claims about their amazing abilities to speed healing. Next, she wrote a whole piece that criticized the electric dermpen type devices. Guess what? Now she is claiming that she is working with a manufacturer to bring her dermapen-like device to the market. She actually was selling a knock off dermapen device for a while, then stopped. She also keeps claiming that her products are superior and only sourced from the best manufacturers, but all her products are clearly sourced from the same chinese sellers you can find on Alibaba.com or a cursory search of Amazon and Ebay.
She can talk your ear off, but doesn't have much in the way of credibility.
That was 'second generation copper peptides' by skinbiology/pickart which are disputed, it's just copper chloride and a binder (hydrolyzed soy protein). I can't think of a time she was against actual GHK Cu, they've sold it since they started up o.o. The dermapen thing is fucked though and she's scummy for that. You're right on the product sourcing too.
In my experience w/ her she usually has something to back her opinion, ask her for a citation. If she can't provide one then yeah she's probably talking out of her arse.
Yeah that Pickart guy is a little shady too. The reason behind his "secound generation copper peptides" was to get around the fact that he didn't own the patents / licensing for the GHK copper peptides anymore or something to that effect.
What I find really laughable is how crudely and amatuerishly she packages her skin care products, often in sandwich bags. Seriously, what kind of operation is that? Seems like she just buys things in bulk, from China I might add, and then puts it into plastic bags with a sticker for a label. Not exactly high end.
But I mean the products seem fine. She just turns me off with her over the top marketing and lambasting of competitors.
Put it down to being an aspie
xD
What do you mean by aspie?
I can't figure out where owndoc is located. Bottom of her site says Switzerland. Posted business license says another country. Elsewhere, I found Czech Republic as her location. For some reason, she only claims to be in Europe, which is a huge continent. I find it really strange that she does not openly reveal her business location. None of her SSL images link to a valid security certificate, and the site is not in compliance with the doctor verified certificate that she links too. If the certificate really means something, I don't know how she ever got approved. She is overly defensive about competitors too, quick to accuse people & companies of fraud or slander, and contradicts herself. She also carries Chinese knockoffs that are easy to purchase elsewhere. You can buy her products directy from China on Alibaba and from other sellers on sites like Amazon. I find her sketchy
Liquid_Ocelot,
Would you say your improvement from needling is permanent? I was just doing some research, and like laser, some doctors, who practice the method, claim the improvement is temporary and must be repeated indefinitely to maintain results. Obviously this is a major disappointment to read. I can't find any studies that prove otherwise. I also don't fully understand how it can be temporary if the needles break up scar tissue that is replaced by normal, healthy collagen. How would scar tissue return without a traumatic injury? I understand collagen breaks down naturally but why would this cause scar tissue to return? Just curious to know your thoughts and experience on permanent improvement, especially as it relates to the surface texture of scarred skin.
I haven't treated my skin since Intracel which was around 6 months ago, and my skin is actually looking better than it did a few weeks after the treatment. I can't speak for everybody, but my results are definitely permanent. I think what they're referring to in those studies are wrinkles, skin quality, texture and things of that nature. Clearly you will have to maintain that regardless of how you're treating your skin as aging is an ongoing process.
Edit: I should note that this doesn't mean that anyone that uses dermaroller will also get permanant results. If you want permanent results then one of the most important things you have to do is boost your immune system and healing ability. The best way to do this is reinvigorate your diet. This doesn't mean going on some bullsh!t plant diet, this means eating healthy and balanced. Don't go extreme, it will only stress your body out even more. They say 70% of your immune system is located in your gut, so take care of it.
Hi,
Thanks for your reply.
I was actually referring to comments by doctors on Realself about scar improvement from needling being temporary. A couple doctors said the scars resurface about a year after you stop rolling. That is why I was curious to know your personal experience.
I am familiar with the studies you reference though and most are geared towards anti-aging. I would expect maintainance to be required.
I have to agree that owndoc is not the most reliable source of information as she is promoting her own products. Her posts are always biased and geared to benefit sales.
Yeah I wouldn't take their opinion very seriously. Your scars aren't going to magically reappear after a significant period of time. If your results are due to micro swelling then your skin will very quickly go back to the way it was. It won't suddenly happen after a year.
hey liquid sorry to be pain but do you actually that you got rid of your boxcars scar like 100 percent or is it more like 90-80? just curious also do you have a particular technique to dermastamp like did u keep going till u bleed did u apply alot of pressure etc.
Put it down to being an aspie
xD
What do you mean by aspie?
I can't figure out where owndoc is located. Bottom of her site says Switzerland. Posted business license says another country. Elsewhere, I found Czech Republic as her location. For some reason, she only claims to be in Europe, which is a huge continent. I find it really strange that she does not openly reveal her business location. None of her SSL images link to a valid security certificate, and the site is not in compliance with the doctor verified certificate that she links too. If the certificate really means something, I don't know how she ever got approved. She is overly defensive about competitors too, quick to accuse people & companies of fraud or slander, and contradicts herself. She also carries Chinese knockoffs that are easy to purchase elsewhere. You can buy her products directy from China on Alibaba and from other sellers on sites like Amazon. I find her sketchy
Aspergers syndrome. I was being a douche.
She lives in switzerland, warehouses are in czech republic, spain and apparently new, seychelles.