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i really wonder why there is NO recommedation of needling/dermaroller to treat acne scars in many official international medical sites..?i know some said it may be due to the fact that the dermatologists dont have the technology to sell to patients but some research said it hasnt had enought scientific evidence to prove it.. here in hongkong there are SO many comanpies claims that it works because they just wanna sell the dermrollers, which i think is cruel to people who are suffering from acne scar, the pain that others cant taste.. so can someone offer me other answers? please?I am SO eager to know
The reason that majority of medical doctors do not recommend it is because it is not a very effective method, especially for deeper scars. Many doctors believe that you can achieve better results with other modality (and combination of) than needling if you put in the same type of dedication and time into improving your scars. I can find 100 times testimonial articles, medical advises, including with my experience, to tell you that there are much better alternatives out there. I've asked many doctors who have used needling or have studied it thoroughly. To argue that they do not make any money from needling is retarded because they are charging almost $2000 USD for a package of 5 sessions here in Asia while Fraxels Erbiums are going for $150 each and Fraxel CO2 are going for $300 each here.
I believe that if the cost of Fraxels in US and Europe come down to $100 (Erbium) and $300 (Co2) per session here, needling would no longer become poor man's DIY to scar improvement. I think no matter how many professional advises or experience people give here , one way or another, people will *stick to their personal belief* even if medical evidence to the contrary is overwhelming. The allure of inexpensive cost of needling and the 'great expectation', I think, is what is fueling a lot of passionate debate.
I've too had great results after a recommended course of needling, using HGH and other expensive topical recommended by my dermatologist - but these micro-swelling all faded away after 2-3 weeks. Then I would do needling again and it would make my skin pinkish and scars less noticeable then 2-3 weeks, deja vu, nothing really changed. Some of my scars actually look worse a year after needling. That is my experience and I think you should take it along with dozens of experience that claims otherwise.
I'm just sharing my experience, if you go to other acne boards, almost nobody is talking about needling seriously as a scar improvement not because it is unknown (its been around almost a decade now) because there are better methods out there, some new, some old. You get what you paid for but in some cases, what you pay for with needling you can do a lot better with other modality.
On the other hand, I'm sure people have gotten poor results with lasers, dermabrasion, TCA, , etc, etc. Some maybe due to poor techniques (wrong modality for wrong type of scar, bad dermatologists) but as a collective whole, these techniques are what is generally recommended by the medical community and what most people have success with. People only want to hear what they want to hear - if 10,000 people done Fraxel and 500 people had bad experience, they would use the 500 people who come to complain on the internet as an example to support their claim that needling is better.
But most medical profession believe that if these people didn't get such a good result from laser modality, they sure will be disappointed from needling.
CIT and needling can help deliver topical creams (Retin A, Vitamin C, Collagens, HGF etc), LED to maximize its effect - this has never been argued because it punctures micro holes to better absorb these substances. But understand that these chemicals, even the new craze PRP, have limited effects for deep acne improvement. CIT depends on these chemicals to maximize its effects, even added together, it is limited at best. Other modality are usually standalone and of course you can use these chemicals in addition, but you are talking about few percentage difference because their effects are just that.
The scientific community (who is interested in verifiable truth, would give a rat's AS# about whether doctors make more from CIT or latest laser machines) have never validated the effectiveness of needling other than the one or two articles keep being rehashed by the needling companies and their advocates. I'm just saying if the people who keep posting 'scientific evidence' supporting needling spent a fraction of time researching other modality, they will find a more credible mountain of evidence that gives better results.
In the end, I would caution people not to believe any internet posting. Not even mine. Use it as a guideline and be sure to talk to as many professional as possible. A lot of misinformation are out there, it is up to you to sort out what is BEST for you. Some people would like to poison the well by suggesting that doctors have a vested interest in not introducing needling - well, that is such a convenient & self-serving argument. If I had to trust my face to the medical/scientific community or some unknown poster on the internet, I would pick the professional who spent 8 years of their lives understanding my skin any day of my life.
That's just my 2 cents.
Claisen,
Thanks for sharing. Wanted to ask you're opinion. Here's a study,
which you've probably read already. Its a "Dr. Fernandez" study:
[removed]
5 doctors, 480 samples (people), dermarolling, good results.
The three options from the above "positive results" are:
1. The 5 doctors are liars, being deceptive about the results.
2. The 5 doctors are lunatics (twisted reality).
3. The 5 doctors are truthful in their study.
There are no other options. Let's discount #2, and assume they aren't
crazy. You are concluding, I assume, that they are deliberately lying
in their research paper. That the results are intentionally misleading,
the whole nine yards, phoney photos, statistics, etc., and they then published
it in the Journal of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery for some reason.
Assuming dermarolling is either effective, or ineffective... from your
perspective, how do you take into account a study like this? Its pretty
"cut and dry", easy to read, simply conclusions. Do you feel the doctors
were deliberately lying?
scoobie_do said:Claisen,Thanks for sharing. Wanted to ask you're opinion. Here's a study,
which you've probably read already. Its a "Dr. Fernandez" study:
[removed]
5 doctors, 480 samples (people), dermarolling, good results.
The three options from the above "positive results" are:
1. The 5 doctors are liars, being deceptive about the results.
2. The 5 doctors are lunatics (twisted reality).
3. The 5 doctors are truthful in their study.
There are no other options. Let's discount #2, and assume they aren't
crazy. You are concluding, I assume, that they are deliberately lying
in their research paper. That the results are intentionally misleading,
the whole nine yards, phoney photos, statistics, etc., and they then published
it in the Journal of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery for some reason.
Assuming dermarolling is either effective, or ineffective... from your
perspective, how do you take into account a study like this? Its pretty
"cut and dry", easy to read, simply conclusions. Do you feel the doctors
were deliberately lying?
you are using a clinical trial from a company who distribute CIT rollers as your source.
the problem these days is that you can get clinical trials to show you anything you want. some are independent some are not, some are funded by companies in search of positive results some are not. also with clinical trials regarding opinion based improvements you get very inaccurate results precisely because they are opinion based. often i read medical papers and they say something like 'on average 50 people saw a 50% improvement in their scars'. how can you say they got a 50% improvement? its extremely hard to measure. often i hear about certain methods giving 25-75% improvement in scars and then you see comparison pictures and they are mostly a massive let down.
it happens with all sorts of products e.g. bodybuilding supplements. 'clinically proven to add 12lbs of muscle in an 8 week cycle'. the science looks all good and proper, but in the end you will be lucky to put on anything at all. strange how all the 'test subjects' but on 10-15lbs yet other customers dont see any reults at all.
ive recently experienced something very similar with lugols solution. a medical paper written by Dr David Derry suggests consistent application of lugols solution to scars will make them dissapear. What reason have i got to believe hes lieing - none at all. he says every scar he has tried it on has disappeared. ive tried it for nearly 6 months now and i havent seen a single bit of improvement.
i guess what im trying to say is always take medical papers with a pinch of salt. there are so many medical papers out there which completely contradict each other.
im not saying rolling doesnt work, in fact i think with prolonged use it probably does, i just dont think it works very well and not necessarily better than other forms of treatment.
*Moderator edit, URL removed - read the board rules. *
I live in Surrey, British Columbia, Canada. Does anyone know where I can go to get skin needling/dermarolling done for my scars? I've called a few places, and they haven't even heard of it! I don't want to do it myself. I've tried so many lasers, with minimal success. I really need to see if this can help me! Any info would be amazing. Thanks!
Have a look here for information about scarring *Moderator edit, URL removed - read the board rules. *
Be very careful what products you use with a roller as can be dangerous view a video about it:youtube video
I live in Surrey, British Columbia, Canada. Does anyone know where I can go to get skin needling/dermarolling done for my scars? I've called a few places, and they haven't even heard of it! I don't want to do it myself. I've tried so many lasers, with minimal success. I really need to see if this can help me! Any info would be amazing. Thanks!
Hey,its expected to have minimal improvements with lasers,could you tell me yr ethnic group...because i just wannna acquire knowlledge on why lasers dont work on some...i am sure derma roller canhelp you...if yr gonna do it yrself buy numbingcream.v.important.
I live in Surrey, British Columbia, Canada. Does anyone know where I can go to get skin needling/dermarolling done for my scars? I've called a few places, and they haven't even heard of it! I don't want to do it myself. I've tried so many lasers, with minimal success. I really need to see if this can help me! Any info would be amazing. Thanks!Hey,its expected to have minimal improvements with lasers,could you tell me yr ethnic group...because i just wannna acquire knowlledge on why lasers dont work on some...i am sure derma roller canhelp you...if yr gonna do it yrself buy numbingcream.v.important.
I'm caucasian. Lasers have helped, but not what I would expect for how many I have tried, and how many thousands of dollars I have spent.
Hi Guys -
I'm new on here 
Just wanted to ask advice. I'm 34 - and I've had an Obagi Blue peel/regime, glycolics, and 3 fraxels. I've still got acne scarring pitted and orange peel, and nasalabial lines which I'm trying to improve. I've just bought a Scientia Dermaroller 1.5mm and I'm rolling 5 times a week, and using Obagi Exfoderm and Tretinoid Retin-A cream on alternate days.
The question I need to ask is: WILL THIS WORK????? Or am I causing more damage without realising it.
Yours desperately
Monsupial x
Hi Guys -I'm new on here 🙂
Just wanted to ask advice. I'm 34 - and I've had an Obagi Blue peel/regime, glycolics, and 3 fraxels. I've still got acne scarring pitted and orange peel, and nasalabial lines which I'm trying to improve. I've just bought a Scientia Dermaroller 1.5mm and I'm rolling 5 times a week, and using Obagi Exfoderm and Tretinoid Retin-A cream on alternate days.
The question I need to ask is: WILL THIS WORK????? Or am I causing more damage without realising it.
Yours desperately
Monsupial x
Bro, i dont mean to dampen your spirits,but derma rolling on a 1.5 mm needle should be done only (at most) once a month, collagen takes time to repair......it will build on its own...you have to realise being patient is vital and the obagi peels and whatnot,should not be done....having read about the fact that it is a pretty harsh peel, it should be done once you are happy with the results of the deerrma roller...being someone who is also sufferng from acne scars, i can understand how much it means to quickly improve the scars, but pushing your skin's limits/barriers is only gonna cause more harm....do it once every 6 weeks and yu ll be fine...at the end of a year at your age of 35 you will see a new and improved you...even though some may view 1 year as a ong time, i d beg to differ. anyways, goodluck man..if need need help, just lemme know...i am a message away...haha.
Hi Guys -I'm new on here 🙂
Just wanted to ask advice. I'm 34 - and I've had an Obagi Blue peel/regime, glycolics, and 3 fraxels. I've still got acne scarring pitted and orange peel, and nasalabial lines which I'm trying to improve. I've just bought a Scientia Dermaroller 1.5mm and I'm rolling 5 times a week, and using Obagi Exfoderm and Tretinoid Retin-A cream on alternate days.
The question I need to ask is: WILL THIS WORK????? Or am I causing more damage without realising it.
Yours desperately
Monsupial x
Bro, i dont mean to dampen your spirits,but derma rolling on a 1.5 mm needle should be done only (at most) once a month, collagen takes time to repair......it will build on its own...you have to realise being patient is vital and the obagi peels and whatnot,should not be done....having read about the fact that it is a pretty harsh peel, it should be done once you are happy with the results of the deerrma roller...being someone who is also sufferng from acne scars, i can understand how much it means to quickly improve the scars, but pushing your skin's limits/barriers is only gonna cause more harm....do it once every 6 weeks and yu ll be fine...at the end of a year at your age of 35 you will see a new and improved you...even though some may view 1 year as a ong time, i d beg to differ. anyways, goodluck man..if need need help, just lemme know...i am a message away...haha.
Hi thanks so much for your response! (PS - I'm a girl :))
It says on the packet that I should be rolling 5 times per week if using up to a 1.5mm. I thought it seemed a bit much!! Frickin hurts! So I shouldn't be doing it 5 times a week? I'll be glad for the break! It does say the same on the Scientia Derma Roller website too. Its called Dr Roller (the roller itself), and it says 5 times a week unless using it with a topical numbing cream in which case only do it once a week, and that the roller may need replacing in 3 months time. So do i just ignore that? It doesn't make sense to do it 5 times a week to me, so I prefer your advice! What have you tried, and have you seen any genuine differences?
Thanks so much x
Hi Guys -I'm new on here 🙂
Just wanted to ask advice. I'm 34 - and I've had an Obagi Blue peel/regime, glycolics, and 3 fraxels. I've still got acne scarring pitted and orange peel, and nasalabial lines which I'm trying to improve. I've just bought a Scientia Dermaroller 1.5mm and I'm rolling 5 times a week, and using Obagi Exfoderm and Tretinoid Retin-A cream on alternate days.
The question I need to ask is: WILL THIS WORK????? Or am I causing more damage without realising it.
Yours desperately
Monsupial x
Bro, i dont mean to dampen your spirits,but derma rolling on a 1.5 mm needle should be done only (at most) once a month, collagen takes time to repair......it will build on its own...you have to realise being patient is vital and the obagi peels and whatnot,should not be done....having read about the fact that it is a pretty harsh peel, it should be done once you are happy with the results of the deerrma roller...being someone who is also sufferng from acne scars, i can understand how much it means to quickly improve the scars, but pushing your skin's limits/barriers is only gonna cause more harm....do it once every 6 weeks and yu ll be fine...at the end of a year at your age of 35 you will see a new and improved you...even though some may view 1 year as a ong time, i d beg to differ. anyways, goodluck man..if need need help, just lemme know...i am a message away...haha.
Hi thanks so much for your response! (PS - I'm a girl :))
It says on the packet that I should be rolling 5 times per week if using up to a 1.5mm. I thought it seemed a bit much!! Frickin hurts! So I shouldn't be doing it 5 times a week? I'll be glad for the break! It does say the same on the Scientia Derma Roller website too. Its called Dr Roller (the roller itself), and it says 5 times a week unless using it with a topical numbing cream in which case only do it once a week, and that the roller may need replacing in 3 months time. So do i just ignore that? It doesn't make sense to do it 5 times a week to me, so I prefer your advice! What have you tried, and have you seen any genuine differences?
Thanks so much x
i think the 5 times a week refers to needle length of up to only 0.5mm,i really recommend you to use the derma roller maybe 1 a month at most!...this is because it gives tim e for collagen to build and it is vital.even though that means you can only use the DR 3 times as you plan on relacing it every 3 months.
To be honest,firstly i amm a 17 year old,who has suffered with acne and have tons of scars left,bascially i have a package from my drem for chem peels and derma rollers,personally i know lots and have read and alos spent so much time researching on acne.....for me derma roller has worked a bit,i have only done it twice.but hey,reasearch has proven it heals so i must trust that.and i would seriously recommend that you give the derma roller time, it works.
and my fingers are crossed for you. G.luck
I decided I will definately start rolling with .5mm on my scarred pores/hyperpigmentation.
I'm starting college so I will be going to school Mon, Wed, Fri and I'm ok with people staring at my red face but I'm just afraid of going in the sun since my skin will be sensative to sunlight..so when should I roll?
If I roll on friday night i will stay homE until monday morning, would that be enough time for my skin to get back to normal? I can't just miss my classes.
