Hi guys, I haven't posted on these boards for a long time but I just thought I should share my thoughts on this topic.

I've had PRP done back last December. The doctor took some of my blood and extracted the platelets out of it, injected the solution along with a bit of calcium back into my scarring. After that he used a 1.5mm dermaroller over the area a few times. I was slightly bruised for about 5 to 7 days, afterward you would not know I had anything done.

In the first 2 months I didn't have much improvement. My scars looked slightly more plumped but that is probably from the rolling.

By April near the end of May the redness in the scars and also the depth of all the scarring has lessen to a good 30 to 40%.

Fast forward to June, compared to some of the pics taken before, my scarring and discoloration has improved quite a lot. I would say somewhere near the number of 50%. I had one extra dermarolling combined with laser genesis during April and that must have contributed a little bit to the current results.

I was told that PRP varies a lot for each person. Some will not respond to it, while others will show good results very quickly. For me it took a few months. It was expensive but it was worth every penny. Now for the final bit of scarring and discoloration I can probably just do some sort of very light non-ablative laser with dermarolling and have the improvement that I was always looking for.

So if Stem Cells will one day be used for scarring, I wouldn't have a doubt in my mind that it will work better than any treatments that have been used in the past.

Wow, that's very interesting. Someone else on here has had PRP as well, iirc. But as far as I know he's remaining silent about the outcome, even when people ask him about it. :think: It probably was a let down. Or I missed a few of his posts. lol That's also possible. 😉

 

Anything is possible. Two twins both with scarring can go in for the same PRP treatment, one may respond with great results while the other will have very minimal improvement. PRP is not for everyone, the cost is high but the risks are virtually non-existent (unless the doctor uses a tainted needle, but if he was so bad he wouldn't even invest time into PRP). I know from talking with the doctor that some of his other patients that had PRP did not experience great result. It's a 50/50. For me I can't tell you how happy I am to finally see the improvements I've had in the past 6 months since the PRP. It's a very gradual change in overall skin tone and depth, the improvements were not seen by me until I saw some photos of myself pre treatment. Your body's ability to use the growth factors to heal takes place over the span of so many weeks and months it's hard to notice it if you just check in the mirror every morning. But the results are there.

seem like icaretohelp has found the best acne scar treatment at the history of mankind which sound a bit hard to believe cos everything she experience have been so wonderful and good...if this doctor or stem cell treatment is so effective that give 90% of improvement without any risky downtime...i would believe millions of ppl would be flying over there to see this dc khan and he would be nominated for the next noble price candidate...so it sounds like this icaretohelp is helping to do promotion for dc khan...if i am wrong...enlighten me..

I would say you're just too negative about all this. I completely understand where you're coming from, people have been let down before, it's natural to be skeptical.

I've been on this forum for ages, trying out various things and procedures. As far as I'm concerned, PRP is perhaps the only safe treatment that truly, based on logic, could produce any REAL results.

Just because one person has experienced such wonderful outcome, (such a thing is against the "norm" for all the thousands of treatments people have tried on this forum), doesn't mean it cannot be true. Don't knock PRP until you've seen people that have actually done it.

This is why this forum can be depressing, people simply don't understand that it is not a hopeless world out there; that scars on our faces are just that, scars, they really don't mean as much as we sometimes think so do. And yes, they can be, for the most part, eliminated to a point of non-concern.

Why aren't people flying in for PRP? PRP is not well known, it is hard to market, it is difficult to promote, and can never be done as frequently as your conventional and legacy procedures. It's simply about money. There is NO MONEY from PRP. If a person can walk away after 1 to 3, even expensive PRP treatments with superb results, how can the doctors and the equipment suppliers ever hope to make money? The blood comes from the patient, dermarolling is cheap, the only thing that costs money is the injection kit and the platelet extraction machine (which is infinitely cheaper than the cheapest laser). It's simply not profitable for doctors to expertise on PRP, because if it were, more people would at least try it. It's certainly cheaper than a usual round of 4 to 5 Fraxel treatments, and I would bet the pricetag of a pony that the results of a well performed PRP are better, safer, than all invasive procedures.

Well said christpunchers couldn't agree more. Yeah PRP sounds like a really good deal. I mean the cost and the amount of improvement makes sense. I feel its much better than paying around 3000 to get an ablative laser and with all the downtime, risks of pigmentation, and at the end, many didn't see results. And for sure, i think that stem cells can offer the best improvement for scars if they were available. It's not just about the feelings and hope, but the solid sience behind stem cells makes a lot of sense.

anti aging.

Well, I've called StemCellsForHope in Mount Sinai, New York. And I've asked them a few questions.

I asked if stem cells can recreate the epidermis because I still wasn't sure about this. Their response was that it was "a potential reality". Basically, that's what the stem cells do, they said; they regenerate the tissue from the bottum up. But results differ from patient to patient. Although there are people who have had "amazing" results, it's definately not a magic bullet for everyone.

They also said that they felt adipose derived mesenchymal stem cells are less potent than those derived from bone marrow. According to them the most potent are fetal stem cells which they use in their clinic in Kiev. As using them is only legal there. Which type cell they use depends on the condition that needs to be treated.

Longevity skin center's serum sounded fishy to them, as stem cells need to be handled a certain way after they've been derived. And from what I told them they got the idea that those things weren't being done there. When I told them I got the idea they used a ready to use stem cell product, they said that if that was the case it was a "scam and a half". They say they've had people from Germany's XCell center come over to their clinic because they weren't happy with the results. And they've heard "nothing but bad things" about treatments in China in the sense that the patients allegedly got treated like "prisoners".

It's expensive to get treated at their clinic ($35.000 at the most) but other clinics charge for instance $50.000. And in the future they said they only see the prices of the treatments going up.

It was a fairly long phone call so I might be forgetting a few things but these are the main points I think.

Well, I've called StemCellsForHope in Mount Sinai, New York. And I've asked them a few questions.

I asked if stem cells can recreate the epidermis because I still wasn't sure about this. Their response was that it was "a potential reality". Basically, that's what the stem cells do, they said; they regenerate the tissue from the bottum up. But results differ from patient to patient. Although there are people who have had "amazing" results, it's definately not a magic bullet for everyone.

They also said that they felt adipose derived mesenchymal stem cells are less potent than those derived from bone marrow. According to them the most potent are fetal stem cells which they use in their clinic in Kiev. As using them is only legal there. Which type cell they use depends on the condition that needs to be treated.

Longevity skin center's serum sounded fishy to them, as stem cells need to be handled a certain way after they've been derived. And from what I told them they got the idea that those things weren't being done there. When I told them I got the idea they used a ready to use stem cell product, they said that if that was the case it was a "scam and a half". They say they've had people from Germany's XCell center come over to their clinic because they weren't happy with the results. And they've heard "nothing but bad things" about treatments in China in the sense that the patients allegedly got treated like "prisoners".

It's expensive to get treated at their clinic ($35.000 at the most) but other clinics charge for instance $50.000. And in the future they said they only see the prices of the treatments going up.

It was a fairly long phone call so I might be forgetting a few things but these are the main points I think.

Thanks for posting that. did you get the feeling their criticisms of XCell and treatments in China were genuine, or that they were trying to bash their competitors?

I also thought it was strange they said prices will only go up in the future. Isn't it usually the opposite?

Thanks for posting that. did you get the feeling their criticisms of XCell and treatments in China were genuine, or that they were trying to bash their competitors?

In all honesty; the thought crossed my mind as well. It can see how you can get the idea that he was bashing competitors. But I have to say that he didn't come across to me as somebody without integrity. For instance, I felt he was sincere when he said (paraphrased) "We actually care about our patients as opposed to some other clinics".

But I was surprised when I heard him say what he did about getting treated in China, for instance. From that documentary I posted a link to a few pages back, I got a different impression of what it's like out there.

I also thought it was strange they said prices will only go up in the future. Isn't it usually the opposite?

I remember him saying that he thought it was possible that prices would be doubled at some point. I was amazed... He implied that the reason for the possible price increase, simply is this: people get robbed. Crooks are going to take advantage of people when they can. And there apparently are crooks in the medical field. He expressed his disapproval of this. Incidentally, he also said that he can't understand the logic of people who pay $20.000 in advance and then fly out to some clinic, only to find out that they've been scammed. Which apparently happens, as well.

Here's what a Belgian stem cell researcher says about XCell:

"Going to XCell is useless and expensive. Not one person of the staff is an expert on stem cells and the treatments they offer do no good whatsoever. This clinic is a good example of an enterprise that asks tons of money for a treatment of which the effectiveness hasn't been proven. They are charlatans."

She said that February this year. I was curious and tried to contact her today, in order to ask her a few questions about stem cells in general. But the receptionist of the center she works at, said that it would be better if I called a co-worker of her. So she gave me his number. I'll probably call him next week.

Hi all

Is this RegenPRP Tissue Regeneration the same thing ?

http://www.bolandcell.co.za/REGEN-PRP-MESO.htm

And could I do the dermarolling right after the PRP at the doc's clinic?

Need adv before doing this.

Thanks

heres a new way to get bone marrow extracted to get adult stem cells, it could be useful for future acne scar treatments.

http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kraft_inve...one_marrow.html

A few posts above I read what someone at Mount Sinai NY had to say about various stem cell treatment centres. I think it is unreasonable to expect unbiased opinions from people whose incomes largely stem (no pun intended) from attracting patients to come to their own SC treatment centre as opposed to losing them to competitors. In other words, try not to take to heart the comments made by various doctors, nurses and/or secretaries (working at private 'profit oriented' stem cell clinics) in regards to their rivals. Unless this person has seen first hand the protocols used and results obtained (from the total client population) at Xcell they are in no position to criticize them. Unsatisfied patients provide anecdotal evidence that something isn't right although realistically speaking they also likely give an unfair assessment of treatment efficacies since only unsatisfied patients will seek out other available clinics and disclose such information, while the opinions of those who were content are not taken into account. Furthermore one cannot be certain that the Mount Sinai person is being honest about what those patients have said to him/her in the first place. Thus statistically speaking we don't know the proportion of satisfied vs. unsatisfied patients. Finally, to my knowledge Xcell does not use stem cells to repair atrophic scars and/or any kind of internal scar tissue, so their operations are largely irrelevant to us.

I also think it is extremely unprofessional for this person to classify all Chinese clinics as places where patients get treated like prisoners. That's an ignorant, unintelligent and prejudiced thing to say, because it negatively stereotypes every healthcare institution in a country of 1.4 billion people. I personally know patients who have gone to China to get various treatments and came away feeling as though their hosts were hospitable and professional. In their words they were treated with respect and compassion. So unless the Mount Sinai NY person has visited and indeed documented all relevant Chinese clinics, they do not have the ethical authority to make such encompassing statements which may be born out of greed, conflicts of interest, moral hazards, etc...

I also want to point out that I do not agree that stem cell treatments will become more expensive in the future. As our scientific knowledge of stem cells progresses, new bio-technologies and regenerative treatment modalities will become available to doctors. This in turn will allow more doctors to treat patients using these technologies, which in turn will create a greater supply of such services. As the increasingly positive efficacies (risk/return) of regenerative treatments eclipse those of older treatment types, the demand for the products and services produced by regenerative medicine bio-tech researchers, manufacturers and suppliers will grow exponentially. The result of this is that many companies and clinics will experience increased profit margins. That sequentially leads to increased competition as more corporate players get in on the action to try to take a piece of the pie. The more this happens the greater the market fragmentation, until there is a critical mass of competition (hyper-competition) which is in fact unsustainable over the long-term, but quite positive in the short-to-medium term. By this time there would also be huge economies of scale. The former and the latter both lead to ( a ) an acceleration of innovation, ( b ) lower prices and/or ( c ) a synergistic combination of both ( a & b ). At this point the bio-tech industry will enter a new phase of development. Genetic engineering, gene therapy, therapeutic cloning, totipotent and pluripotent stem cell programming and application thereof, etc will become pervasive in the lives of a significant percentage of people on earth. The market will also consolidate, wherein a few of the previously many companies will establish themselves as dominant leaders that swallow up their less competitive rivals. I expect this to be primarily manifested in around 10-15 years in the future. These companies will have greater R&D budgets so they will essentially be able to focus even more resources into tackling difficult problems, whilst riding on the innovative waves of the formerly numerous smaller companies. These market leaders will be able to continually offer differentiated services from one another (this is not the same as companies selling the exact same service/product, (ie: commodities)), so one need not fear the rise of a bio-tech oligopoly/cartel. Think of the modern automotive and computer industries to picture what I'm talking about. Naturally those staying on the leading edge of the bio-tech industry will be able to keep prices up, while everyone else will have to keep competing by lowering the prices of less than novel procedures. In summary, when stem cell treatments are no longer a mysterious novelty utilized by a few specialized centres, and a number of other related products/services reach economies of scale, there will be a substantial reduction of prices for various treatments that may be of benefit to you.

Anyways enough about that. I have an interesting article for you:

- http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/...90721104235.htm

and another one,

- http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/...90720163539.htm

Hi icaretohelp,

The doctor from Japan is only partially correct. On one hand it is true that stem cells tend to aggregate around sites of inflammation. This happens when say blood begins to coagulate in and around injured tissue. As it does this it releases specific growth factors that essentially tell the body that this particular site needs repair. That in turn drives a host of primarily immune, secondarily fibroblast and thirdly stem cells to that site. I've detailed the histological mechanisms in the "blood injection" thread I started about a year ago. Anyway, the doctor is not right about stem cells losing their efficacy during culturing. The reason I say this is that they can be suppressed from differentiating into less potent cell types with a number of growth factors, time management methodologies and critical population controls.

Post culturing, the procedure that I've developed involves four primary steps:

1) I perform subcision and needling at the site of each and every acne scar to be treated. This creates macro and micro damage at the deeper dermis and hypodermis levels. Inflammation occurs immediately.

2) Right after step (1) I inject a customized PRP solution that I've discussed before. The platelets aggregate at the site of injection and coagulate in and around the normal blood scaffold that has formed there from the subcision. As previously said, a concentrated number of growth factors is then naturally released by coagulating platelets that trick the body into thinking that there is a relatively serious injury in that particular area. At the same time additional GFs/proteins (artificially added to the PRP solution: TGF-b3, Thymosin-b4, Fetuin-A and Laminin 511) suppress hyper inflammation, which is itself counterproductive. They also help control the stem cell response. Right before injection the PRP is further enhanced by a injectable ECM solution that contains endogeneic ECM particulates.

3) I perform secondary subcision to recreate what I call endo-dermal pockets right through the already apparent haematoma. I then inject the stem cells into this same site. They are immediately guided by GF signalling in the area. Soon after they begin their work as they integrate themselves in the coagulated blood scaffold that is itself reinforced by the said ECM particulates.

4) 6 hours following the 3rd step I have patients undergo their first post treatment LLLT dose. This continues daily in the comforts of their own homes as they have personal LED panels with red and infrared light output. This helps to stimulate the regenerative histological activities post treatment and at the same time further controls the inflammation.

Some liken my technique to absolute overkill. Of course those who say this have never dealt with serious acne scars.

Hi BRD,

Would the injection of GFs extracted from fetuses and umbilical cords produce an immunological response if they were not 100% acellular? As I mentioned to you previously, Aoluosi is investigating this procedure and expects to offer this treatment in the Fall in conjunction with the injection of MSC, PRP, and fibroblasts. Do you think that if Aoluosi was in fact able to remove the cells from the GFs that it would be more effective than the proteins that you are currently using?

Can you also kindly elaborate on you injectable ECM solution? I don't believe that we have discussed this in the past.

Best Regards

Hi BRD or anyone,

Could someone pls advise me about the this RegenPRP?

Really need some adv about this. PLs help..thanks in advance

Hi all

 

Is this RegenPRP Tissue Regeneration the same thing ?

 

 

http://www.bolandcell.co.za/REGEN-PRP-MESO.htm

 

 

And could I do the dermarolling right after the PRP at the doc's clinic?

Need adv before doing this.

 

Thanks

Thanks for replying, BRD. You've made some good points.

Btw, I haven't found the time to call the Belgian researcher's co-worker yet. I might call him tomorrow but if I end up being too busy, it'll have to wait until next week.

Hi all

Is this RegenPRP Tissue Regeneration the same thing ?

http://www.bolandcell.co.za/REGEN-PRP-MESO.htm

Thanks

You're asking if it's the same thing as ADSC, right? Well, it's not. It's PRP with growth factors, if I understood correctly.

Hi all

Is this RegenPRP Tissue Regeneration the same thing ?

http://www.bolandcell.co.za/REGEN-PRP-MESO.htm

Thanks

You're asking if it's the same thing as ADSC, right? Well, it's not. It's PRP with growth factors, if I understood correctly.

 

oh ok, thanks, it just kinda confuses me :redface:

What the doc briefly adv me about this RegenPRP is that she will use the centrifuge machine that turns the blood into growth factors :rolleyes: And it takes 2 hrs and she can perform the treatment on me after that.

And she wants to combined the PRP with the dermarolling.

Is it supposed to stimulate new collagen growth? :shifty:

Appreciate all the reply I can get before I go ahead and book an appt for this 🙂

Thanks in advance.

🙁 i just dont understand why BRD wont give us the oppertunity to have treatment with him..its upsetting because i feel he overestimates what we can do..i cant go to china..i cant go to japan..im limited to europe..i dont have funds galore..im not just going to see ANOTHER derm and show him what BRD has written and have him waste my time

ive spent 15,000 dinars which is 60 thousand pounds in the last year trying to get someone to do the exact treatment BRD talks of..going accross the world and such..im tired..and its just not fair..if BRD you have the ability to do these optimal treatments..with the trust of us all on this board ..you arent ''advertising'' your helping me and others like no other.

ive become so emotionaly drained from this..i used to have a great life...Please Dr..i have given this my all..im doing a treatment in 3 days which isnt anywhere near as comprehnsive as what you have put forward simply because the Dr is a stubborn s.o.a.g..(losing my temper..sorry)

BRD please..you have without doubt put forward the best treatment..but if you knew how much depression ive gone through trying to get this treatment to become a reality for other dr's..you wouldnt begrudge me seeing you..Im a very positive person..my skin has improved..but dare i say it ..my intuition which is getting better with every passing day tells me a trip to sofia bulgaria will lift my spirtis..

you are a dermatoligist..you help patients who come to you.

they know of you from a source..

i know of your existence from a source

please..i have enough money for 1 more trip..could it be you?

I would have sent this via PM but your inbox is full..

I thought you have been getting good results with these doctors?

Well thats disappointing. you are right, I don't think most of these doctors have any idea about regenerative medicine, its such a new thing and its just beginning. It is disappointing that your upset, I thought you were actually getting amazing results and your post were very up lifting.

what kind of treatment are you looking to get? I know from your later post that you've had PRP with dermarolling?

heres a clinic in Canada, I don't know if you guys already know about it.

heres the link http://www.mcmedgroup.com/mcacnescar.html

Hey icaretohelp....

have you tried fraxel repair for your acne scars??? this laser and subcision will help alot i feel.usually u need 2-3 laser treatments to really improve the deep deep acne scars and finding a good laser doctor to do it is key. I have heard of many people that were happy with the results that they have gotten from this laser and i have seen really good before and after pics. Of course I am hoping for new and better treatments to come out in the future but we need to make the best of the situation we are in. btw thank you BRD so so so much for all the info and questions you have answered..i wish you the best of luck for the private work wit stem cells u are doing and hopefully someday it will be the main treatment for acne scars by every doctor in this world! i also feel for everyone that has acne scars and trouble wit their skin cause i have dealt wit deep pitted acne scars myself. and i know that there are scientists out there rite now working vigorouslty to find a new and better treatment for acne scars. There have been major advances in treating acne scars over the years so we just have to stay positive and keep our heads up. btw all the acne sufferers here try aloe vera it prevents scarring and helps heal the acne.

icaretohelp,

I sent you a private message.

Franklins Tower,

The injectable ECM solution is simply composed of fine extracellular matrix particulates (0.05mm - 0.2mm particle size) combined with PRP. As the platelets in the PRP begin to coagulate, they form a solid yet permeable scaffold that allows for other cells in the body to infiltrate the area and begin a kind of rough/imperfect reparative though limited rebuilding process. This scaffold is normally reabsorbed and replaced by granulation tissue which initially consists of Type III collagen that is later replaced by Type I collagen (abundant in scar tissue). However in the case of the methodology and technology I've developed, the added ECM particulates embedded within this scaffold can enhance a number of cellular communication and differentiation pathways and help stimulate a more organized regenerative response. They form what can be likened to an informational network infrastructure that works in synergy with the coagulated platelets 3D superstructure. That in combination with AD stem cells and added proteins make the results that much more positive for people with tissue deficiencies (ie: atrophic scars).

While it's not perfect, it does give us more enhanced results. By putting this out in the public domain I am making it very difficult for myself to patent this particular solution and/or procedural methodology. Nor can anyone else patent it unless they can significantly improve upon it. Call it open source bio-tech. So any doctor can use it freely if they have the luminescent light bulb up to top to research it, test it and apply it. Of course national regulations come into play, but regardless of the unique barriers that are present in one place or another, I hope what I'm sharing here will hasten the access to this type of technology worldwide.

Thus in the meantime I'll continue to write from the shadows of obscurity, for with a mission to destroy acne scars, a secret identity and a disregard for the often rigid medical institutions and inertial beliefs of many a colleague, I have the power to help.

And simply because I feel like injecting some humour into this discussion, here's something I hope will lighten your day (courtesy of 4Q.cc):

"Chuck Norris sold his soul to the devil for his rugged good looks and unparalleled martial arts ability. Shortly after the transaction was finalized, Chuck roundhouse kicked the devil in the face and took his soul back. The devil, who appreciates irony, couldn't stay mad and admitted he should have seen it coming. They now play poker every second Wednesday of the month."

Hi icaretohelp

I really feel bad for you, i've been following your progress and i know

you have put a lot of heart in your scar treatments journey.

You have helped a lot of members by giving us your insight.

BRD i hope you can help him, i think he is one of the most determined

individual !