On 07/08/2016 at 6:09 AM, snarkygirl said:

On 07/08/2016 at 3:57 AM, cnb30 said:

Yeah she dismissed that I was depressed. Also, does anyone here still experience this headaches in the orbitofrontal cortexthat are probably responsible for 90% of our problems. You know, the ones that felt like your entire brain was being attacked by pins and needles? The ones that killed me as a person? Do I ever get back what I lost?

I never had migraines until age 30 don't know if its from that or coincidental.

Yes! My headaches started as I was weaning off my course of Tane. Before then, no issues. This was 07. I've only found two agents that help it, both with their own issues. Gotta stay positive though.

4 hours ago, QuietSoldier said:

You guys complain about him, but guitarman01 is probably right.

It's actually just me. I just notice patterns. Every time people are having a conversation coincidentally he posts a random copy paste of some gut flora candida or copper metabolism into the forum. No one is saying we don't have bowel issues that have manifested into a disease, but it's not the sole root of the issue. Isotretinoin probably affected critical system processes within the body, AND that is what WE are trying to look into. All you will be able to do is palliative care with your goddamn gut issues, the problem will continue to reoccur. Bacteria overgrowth doesn't cause people to commit suicide or lose a colon. Think for a second. A genetic transcription capable drug affecting chemicals and processes within the brain and body can though.

4 hours ago, john86 said:

Hi, can I ask, what sort of practice do you feel has improved your cognitive fluency?

I forced myself to work at a job that requires social interactions and thinking on my feet. In such a setting, I am forced to find methods of compensating for my cognitive deficits. In fact, I recommend reading blogs from those who must deal with chemo-brain, or post-chemotherapy cognitive impairment. Often, you will hear about waiters/waitresses who learned to recognize their limitations and plan around them. The feelings of fog are still there but I am learning to cover it better. However, in terms of the little progress I have objectively made in directly improving my cognition (and I have made SOME progress), I credit to my healthy diet, experimentation with neurogenic compounds, and my harsh cardio routine. Oh, and time.

Going forward, I plan to try a fasting protocol of some kind. Both Accutane and Propecia sufferers agree that it helps.

58 minutes ago, macleod said:

It's actually just me. I just notice patterns. Every time people are having a conversation coincidentally he posts a random copy paste of some gut flora candida or copper metabolism into the forum. No one is saying we don't have bowel issues that have manifested into a disease, but it's not the sole root of the issue. Isotretinoin probably affected critical system processes within the body, AND that is what WE are trying to look into. All you will be able to do is palliative care with your goddamn gut issues, the problem will continue to reoccur. Bacteria overgrowth doesn't cause people to commit suicide or lose a colon. Think for a second. A genetic transcription capable drug affecting chemicals and processes within the brain and body can though.

This x 1000

On 8/8/2016 at 0:14 AM, macleod said:

Why do you keep posting the same gut stuff constantly? We've all changed our diets accordingly and some have gone as far as doing flushes. Still not the basis of the problem. Isotretinoin affects several glands and organs in different places. Naturally, if all that is affected is your gut from accutane, then by all means treat it, but for me personally, it's not going to balance my intracranial pressure, change my vision back to normal, get rid of my tinnitus, and lift my depression. I have hippocampal areas in the brain and inner rods within the eyes to work on.

You are going to be too much drama for me.

On 8/11/2016 at 8:20 AM, ACCUiTy_drANE said:

I forced myself to work at a job that requires social interactions and thinking on my feet. In such a setting, I am forced to find methods of compensating for my cognitive deficits. In fact, I recommend reading blogs from those who must deal with chemo-brain, or post-chemotherapy cognitive impairment. Often, you will hear about waiters/waitresses who learned to recognize their limitations and plan around them. The feelings of fog are still there but I am learning to cover it better. However, in terms of the little progress I have objectively made in directly improving my cognition (and I have made SOME progress), I credit to my healthy diet, experimentation with neurogenic compounds, and my harsh cardio routine. Oh, and time.

Going forward, I plan to try a fasting protocol of some kind. Both Accutane and Propecia sufferers agree that it helps.

Interesting, that sounds like what I've done rather obsessively, except for finding a job specifically requiring social interaction. It certainly all helps, though in my case, I've failed to completely restore my mental faculties. Hopefully you'll have better luck with fasting than I did. I've found that fasting feels amazing in lifting some of the brain fog and anxiety, but the effects are unfortunately temporary. I haven't tried fasting for the longest lengths of time, such as for 21 days or more, however...There is that study posted on the Propecia site, possibly indicating that Propecia sufferers have lower levels of neurosteroids, but unfortunately it looks like neither the test for this nor any direct remedies are readily available to consumers like normal hormonal panels are.

On 8/10/2016 at 10:51 AM, macleod said:

So, maybe you can't convince the thousands of know it all willful ignorant masses online, but say you have a conversation with 20-30 people in your personal life, about your experience, and those 20 people end up being in that same scenario or end up having kids in that scenario where they are offered a pill, they end up researching before taking, and ultimately decide it's not worth the risk all because of your precautionary warning. The universe has a funny way of balancing out in the end. It's worth it to just sit back and watch it play out. Edited Tuesday at 10:00 PM by macleod

Also, if you haven't, everyone affected by Accutane should fill out an adverse reaction report with the FDA. I'm doing this now. Here is the link: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/medwatch/index.cfm?action=reporting.home . It can't hurt, and if enough people do it, they might eventually take it seriously. You might scoff at this and reply that the fact that they're in bed with Big Pharma would be enough to negate this possibility, but this isn't necessarily the case, because, for example, the NIH now includes "Post finasteride syndrome" in their list [Edited link out] of possible rare and genetic resources. They don't officially recognize it, but this is a step up from non-existence. I'm pretty sure Merck is more powerful than Roche, and the only reason "post Accutane syndrome" isn't included as well is because enough people haven't organized and complained in the way they have.

On 8/10/2016 at 1:19 AM, yetanotheraccutanevictim said:

Going to get blood taken tomorrow. Any tests I should get besides the usual stuff?

Basic is estrogen but it doesn't get given any importance because of lack of data.
Look up Nelsol vergel estrogen. He at least is trying o raise awareness on low E as well as high E

8 hours ago, Iamme. said:

Yeah I did about 180 days in total. That brought back my libido. However libido wasn't the worst for me out of my symptoms.

This is absolutely awesome pal. As far as I'm concerned this should be made sticky and visible for search engines so anyone suffering from no libido does a PMO reboot before investing tons of money and time in pointless "cures".

If I may ask a few more:
Around which day did you see an improvement?
What were your libido like when you started?
Did you use anything to improve the process? I'm hearing CDP-choline may be useful.

4 hours ago, pabpab said:

This is absolutely awesome pal. As far as I'm concerned this should be made sticky and visible for search engines so anyone suffering from no libido does a PMO reboot before investing tons of money and time in pointless "cures".

If I may ask a few more:
Around which day did you see an improvement?
What were your libido like when you started?
Did you use anything to improve the process? I'm hearing CDP-choline may be useful.

Bad, very bad. Before accutane it was crazy. After, I didnt even think about women, and when I had the opportunity, it didnt work.

Had spikes in my libidos return, 30 days was good, then it dropped again. I took breaks in between, new girlfriend etc, no GF, newer GF etc etc. Its fine now, Id say normal, Im sure Its come back over the years anyway, the PMO reboot just sped it up.

Yeah I used dl-phenyalanine and L-tyrosine as I read they could recover dopamine pathways. A few times I felt pressure at the front of my head, which I had read other forum members discuss being these new dopamine pathways being built. Not sure if thats true, doesnt seem likely, idk, but it happened and as of now my libido game be strong.

_____________________________

On a side note, perhaps this will help people..

If you save the url as a boomark with 'page=1000' at the end, it will always load the last page.

Works with an iphone using Safari too, just go into aeroplane mode, edit the url to 'page=1000' and save it to homescreen.

Kinda nifty

57 minutes ago, Iamme. said:

Bad, very bad. Before accutane it was crazy. After, I didnt even think about women, and when I had the opportunity, it didnt work.

Had spikes in my libidos return, 30 days was good, then it dropped again. I took breaks in between, new girlfriend etc, no GF, newer GF etc etc. Its fine now, Id say normal, Im sure Its come back over the years anyway, the PMO reboot just sped it up.

Yeah I used dl-phenyalanine and L-tyrosine as I read they could recover dopamine pathways. A few times I felt pressure at the front of my head, which I had read other forum members discuss being these new dopamine pathways being built. Not sure if thats true, doesnt seem likely, idk, but it happened and as of now my libido game be strong.

_____________________________

Would't be too sure about libido recovering as the time passes. Been 10 miserable years in my case. I'm cognitively in a great shape, looking well (built really decent muscles) but my sex drive is non-existent (I'm on 17th days of my reboot which will never end unless I've recovered).

Can I ask if you didn't have sex at all(either with a gf or solo) or just avoided porn and masturbation?

17 hours ago, pabpab said:

Czesc

I haven't yet.

What sort of sides are you struggling to recover from?

Mate, can you elaborate on this a little more?
Personally I'd say I recovered from everything but still have ZERO libido.

A few years back I did a PMO reboot (100 days which improved my erections yet libido was still non-existent.

Now I made a commitment I'm not going to have sex or maturbate (and I have a hot gf) unless I sort out my libido. So as far as we are talking commitnemnt I can do anything for a year or two if it means my libido is normal again.

Mostly GI issues. But also brain fog, fatigue, mood disorders. Also problems with my teeth/gums. I'm pretty much in constant pain and can't work. Hell, I sometimes can't care about myself. I can be tired after sleeping 10-12 hours, and stomach hurts me constantly. I mean constantly. In last 5 years I didn't had a minute without pain. All this because not of accutane but antibiotics, but side effects are strangely similiar. Although I don't have problem with skin dryness or joint/muscle pains

On 8/11/2016 at 1:46 PM, john86 said:

Interesting, that sounds like what I've done rather obsessively, except for finding a job specifically requiring social interaction. It certainly all helps, though in my case, I've failed to completely restore my mental faculties. Hopefully you'll have better luck with fasting than I did. I've found that fasting feels amazing in lifting some of the brain fog and anxiety, but the effects are unfortunately temporary. I haven't tried fasting for the longest lengths of time, such as for 21 days or more, however...There is that study posted on the Propecia site, possibly indicating that Propecia sufferers have lower levels of neurosteroids, but unfortunately it looks like neither the test for this nor any direct remedies are readily available to consumers like normal hormonal panels are. Also, if you haven't, everyone affected by Accutane should fill out an adverse reaction report with the FDA. I'm doing this now. Here is the link: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/medwatch/index.cfm?action=reporting.home . It can't hurt, and if enough people do it, they might eventually take it seriously. You might scoff at this and reply that the fact that they're in bed with Big Pharma would be enough to negate this possibility, but this isn't necessarily the case, because, for example, the NIH now includes "Post finasteride syndrome" in their list [Edited link out]of possible rare and genetic resources. They don't officially recognize it, but this is a step up from non-existence. I'm pretty sure Merck is more powerful than Roche, and the only reason "post Accutane syndrome" isn't included as well is because enough people haven't organized and complained in the way they have.

I already did , I acquired pseudo tumor from isotretinoin , overdosing ( as prescribed)on this drug will do that . It's a well known side
effect .

On 8/11/2016 at 10:00 PM, Umas said:

Mostly GI issues. But also brain fog, fatigue, mood disorders. Also problems with my teeth/gums. I'm pretty much in constant pain and can't work. Hell, I sometimes can't care about myself. I can be tired after sleeping 10-12 hours, and stomach hurts me constantly. I mean constantly. In last 5 years I didn't had a minute without pain. All this because not of accutane but antibiotics, but side effects are strangely similiar. Although I don't have problem with skin dryness or joint/muscle pains

That sucks how much antibiotics did you take ? GI issues are most certainly realated to repeated anti-life-biotic use.

46 minutes ago, Gladiatoro said:

I already did , I acquired pseudo tumor from isotretinoin , overdosing ( as prescribed)on this drug will do that . It's a well known side
effect . That sucks how much antibiotics did you take ? GI issues are most certainly realated to repeated anti-life-biotic use.

4 courses over the span of 6-7 years. First was 3 months - tetracycline. Next was 5-6 months od unidox(doxycycline). 3 years after that I think I had short course of 2 weeks of augmentin. And 2 years after that I had 3 month course of tetracycline. So basically I was almost year on them in my whoe life. At the end of that last course my body rebelled. I'm not sure if teeth problems are related to antibiotics. It's more like I clench them day and night because of stomach pain. Thankfully I found dentist that though about that and made relaxation rail for my teeth to wear in night, and it's better. I was really depressed 2-3 years, full of regret and blaming myself constantly but after some time it's tiring. It's better to spent that energy to try to repair myself and warn others. Even if it is too late for my to recover I will try because derms and antibiotics did already huge damage in my life. I can't let them win.

On 8/11/2016 at 1:46 PM, john86 said:

for example, the NIH now includes "Post finasteride syndrome" in their [Edited link out]of possible rare and genetic resources. They don't officially recognize it, but this is a step up from non-existence. I'm pretty sure Merck is more powerful than Roche, and the only reason "post Accutane syndrome" isn't included as well is because enough people haven't organized and complained in the way they have.

I am actually impressed with the way PFS sufferers have dealt with their problems. There are multiple message boards out there dedicated to the topic, and they often include several useful subsections. PFS sufferers have even convinced universities to study the condition! The most active resource post-Accutane sufferers have is this thread. I have connected with a few people via Facebook groups, but those groups often include people currently on the drug AND those with post-Accutane syndrome, therefore there is a lot useless bickering between the two camps.

I think Accutane's side effects have garnered a lot of attention in the past. The media has reported on some of the more memorable suicides (and even attempted homicides). The IBD cases and lawsuits have gotten a lot of attention as well (remember the TV ads?). I think the problem is that Accutane's side effects have never been looked at as a whole. The media has focused on the depression and the IBD, but not on the fact many have CLUSTERS of symptoms. Compare that to how media outlets cover PFS sufferers. Watch a Youtube interview some time; they list off all of the patient's aliments! Further, it's almost as if people dismiss Accutane-induced depression and IBD because science is already working on cures for those conditions. But if it was acknowledged that Accutane can engender its own idiosyncratic SET of issues (similar to Propecia), perhaps people like those on this forum would be recruited for studies, just as the PFS folks have been.

what about vitamin k2 in the mk7 form? strictly by itself. What if we are having a calcium issue? Accutane/antibiotics might be capable of wiping out or crippling the bacteria that creates vitamin k2 in mk7 form. without the gut secreting this vitamin, the amount in the standard diet is close to zero. Unless you eat japanese natto for breakfast. Speaking of that they have some of the lowest osteoporosis rates in the world even though they dont consume much calcium. Problems with calcium could create alot of, well problems. muscle spasms, which could lead to acid reflux with esophageal spasms. muscles in constant contract mode could lead to muscle weakness, problems with calcium could induce inflammation and constricted blood vessels. Thin skin as well.

34 minutes ago, guitarman01 said:

what about vitamin k2 in the mk7 form? strictly by itself. What if we are having a calcium issue? Accutane/antibiotics might be capable of wiping out or crippling the bacteria that creates vitamin k2 in mk7 form. without the gut secreting this vitamin, the amount in the standard diet is close to zero. Unless you eat japanese natto for breakfast. Speaking of that they have some of the lowest osteoporosis rates in the world even though they dont consume much calcium. Problems with calcium could create alot of, well problems. muscle spasms, which could lead to acid reflux with esophageal spasms. muscles in constant contract mode could lead to muscle weakness, problems with calcium could induce inflammation and constricted blood vessels. Thin skin as well.

Vit D, Vit A, vit K2, zinc, boron, magnesium and calcium all work together and need some balance.

Vitamin K is unique among the vitamins in several respects. It is the only vitamin that can be produced within the human body, but not by the body (to be defined as a vitamin, a substance cannot be produced by human tissue).7 Beneficial bacteria in the human intestine produce about 75% of the vitamin K the body absorbs each day, with the other 25% coming from dietary sources.8 The amount of vitamin K absorbed each day from both sources usually is equal to the minimum amount required for normal bodily function.9

Like the body™s absorption of other fat-soluble vitamins (A, D, and E), vitamin K absorption depends on healthy liver and gallbladder function.10-13 Unlike the other fat-soluble vitamins, however, vitamin K is not stored in the body.9 Taken together, these factors explain why the net daily balance of vitamin K is so delicate. As people live longer and vitamin K-dependent processes are discovered in more and more tissues, more scientists are suggesting that vitamin K is needed in larger quantities than what was once thought, particularly in aging adults.14,15

Vitamin K occurs in nature in two major forms”K1 and K2”with molecular structures that are similar to cholesterol. These structures make the molecules fat soluble, and seem to be what gives the vitamin its activity. The terminology about vitamin K can be confusing, partly because researchers are learning more about the vitamin each day. In general, K1 (phylloquinone) is the form of the vitamin chiefly derived from dietary sources such as leafy green vegetables and soybean oil, while K2 (menaquinone) is produced by bacteria in the intestine.16 While K2 may be more important in bone mineralization than K1, the amount of K2 absorbed from the gut provides only a fraction of the total daily requirement.17 Laboratory and some human data now suggest that K1 is in fact converted to K2 in tissues.18,19 This means that supplementing with vitamin K1 produces reliable absorption and supports all the important functions discussed in this article.

Although vitamin K affects many vital processes, it has the same fundamental action in all tissues. Vitamin K acts as a cofactor in converting the amino acid glutamate into gamma-carboxyglutamate, or Gla.20 Gla-containing proteins (Gla-proteins) regulate many of the myriad physiological processes controlled by calcium. Vitamin K thus participates in some of the body™s most finely tuned systems. Vitamin K™s action was first discovered, and is still most thoroughly understood, in the control of blood coagulation. It is now known to be fundamental as well in regulating the mineral content of bone and of blood vessel walls, with important implications for aging.

Regulation of cellular functions

Growth arrest-specific gene 6 protein (Gas6) is a vitamin K-dependent protein that was identified in 1993. It has been found throughout the nervous system, as well in the heart, lungs, stomach, kidneys, and cartilage. Identified as a ligand of the TAM family of transmembrane tyrosine kinase receptors, Gas6 appears to be a cellular growth regulation factor with cell-signalingactivities. Gas6 has been involved in diverse cellular functions, including phagocytosis, cell adhesion, cell proliferation, and protection against apoptosis (5). It may also play important roles in the developing and aging nervous system (reviewed in 26). Further, Gas6 appears to regulate platelet signaling and vascular hemostasis (27). Expressed in most tissues and involved in many cellular functions, Gas6 has also been linked to several pathological conditions, including clot formation (thrombogenesis), atherosclerosis, chronic inflammation, and cancer growth (28-30).

6 hours ago, guitarman01 said:

Vitamin K is unique among the vitamins in several respects. It is the only vitamin that can be produced within the human body, but not by the body (to be defined as a vitamin, a substance cannot be produced by human tissue).7 Beneficial bacteria in the human intestine produce about 75% of the vitamin K the body absorbs each day, with the other 25% coming from dietary sources.8 The amount of vitamin K absorbed each day from both sources usually is equal to the minimum amount required for normal bodily function.9

Like the body™s absorption of other fat-soluble vitamins (A, D, and E), vitamin K absorption depends on healthy liver and gallbladder function.10-13 Unlike the other fat-soluble vitamins, however, vitamin K is not stored in the body.9 Taken together, these factors explain why the net daily balance of vitamin K is so delicate. As people live longer and vitamin K-dependent processes are discovered in more and more tissues, more scientists are suggesting that vitamin K is needed in larger quantities than what was once thought, particularly in aging adults.14,15

Vitamin K occurs in nature in two major forms”K1 and K2”with molecular structures that are similar to cholesterol. These structures make the molecules fat soluble, and seem to be what gives the vitamin its activity. The terminology about vitamin K can be confusing, partly because researchers are learning more about the vitamin each day. In general, K1 (phylloquinone) is the form of the vitamin chiefly derived from dietary sources such as leafy green vegetables and soybean oil, while K2 (menaquinone) is produced by bacteria in the intestine.16 While K2 may be more important in bone mineralization than K1, the amount of K2 absorbed from the gut provides only a fraction of the total daily requirement.17 Laboratory and some human data now suggest that K1 is in fact converted to K2 in tissues.18,19 This means that supplementing with vitamin K1 produces reliable absorption and supports all the important functions discussed in this article.

Although vitamin K affects many vital processes, it has the same fundamental action in all tissues. Vitamin K acts as a cofactor in converting the amino acid glutamate into gamma-carboxyglutamate, or Gla.20 Gla-containing proteins (Gla-proteins) regulate many of the myriad physiological processes controlled by calcium. Vitamin K thus participates in some of the body™s most finely tuned systems. Vitamin K™s action was first discovered, and is still most thoroughly understood, in the control of blood coagulation. It is now known to be fundamental as well in regulating the mineral content of bone and of blood vessel walls, with important implications for aging.

Regulation of cellular functions

Growth arrest-specific gene 6 protein (Gas6) is a vitamin K-dependent protein that was identified in 1993. It has been found throughout the nervous system, as well in the heart, lungs, stomach, kidneys, and cartilage. Identified as a ligand of the TAM family of transmembrane tyrosine kinase receptors, Gas6 appears to be a cellular growth regulation factor with cell-signalingactivities. Gas6 has been involved in diverse cellular functions, including phagocytosis, cell adhesion, cell proliferation, and protection against apoptosis (5). It may also play important roles in the developing and aging nervous system (reviewed in 26). Further, Gas6 appears to regulate platelet signaling and vascular hemostasis (27). Expressed in most tissues and involved in many cellular functions, Gas6 has also been linked to several pathological conditions, including clot formation (thrombogenesis), atherosclerosis, chronic inflammation, and cancer growth (28-30).

It's interresting. I was diagnosed with vitamin K deficienty before my "antibiotics madness"

9 hours ago, guitarman01 said:

what about vitamin k2 in the mk7 form? strictly by itself. What if we are having a calcium issue? Accutane/antibiotics might be capable of wiping out or crippling the bacteria that creates vitamin k2 in mk7 form. without the gut secreting this vitamin, the amount in the standard diet is close to zero. Unless you eat japanese natto for breakfast. Speaking of that they have some of the lowest osteoporosis rates in the world even though they dont consume much calcium. Problems with calcium could create alot of, well problems. muscle spasms, which could lead to acid reflux with esophageal spasms. muscles in constant contract mode could lead to muscle weakness, problems with calcium could induce inflammation and constricted blood vessels. Thin skin as well.

Surely we would of all seen a deficiency when getting blood tests over the years with Vit K??

In any case I tried Vit K along with Magnesium and Vit D when it was all the rage 6 months ago - did NOTHING.

I'm beginning to think that our gut health after Accutane is totally fucked so YES we might need certainly vit & min but our ability to absorb them is screwed.

Might be better injecting stuff rather than trying to use supplements. I guess no one has done the "Gut Thrive" program, I didn't hear of anyone bothering to do it. I may try it if my specialist recommends it when I see him again in Sept.

21 hours ago, ACCUiTy_drANE said:

I am actually impressed with the way PFS sufferers have dealt with their problems. There are multiple message boards out there dedicated to the topic, and they often include several useful subsections. PFS sufferers have even convinced universities to study the condition! The most active resource post-Accutane sufferers have is this thread. I have connected with a few people via Facebook groups, but those groups often include people currently on the drug AND those with post-Accutane syndrome, therefore there is a lot useless bickering between the two camps.

I think Accutane's side effects have garnered a lot of attention in the past. The media has reported on some of the more memorable suicides (and even attempted homicides). The IBD cases and lawsuits have gotten a lot of attention as well (remember the TV ads?). I think the problem is that Accutane's side effects have never been looked at as a whole. The media has focused on the depression and the IBD, but not on the fact many have CLUSTERS of symptoms. Compare that to how media outlets cover PFS sufferers. Watch a Youtube interview some time; they list off all of the patient's aliments! Further, it's almost as if people dismiss Accutane-induced depression and IBD because science is already working on cures for those conditions. But if it was acknowledged that Accutane can engender its own idiosyncratic SET of issues (similar to Propecia), perhaps people like those on this forum would be recruited for studies, just as the PFS folks have been.

Yes, absolutely. In my case, I'm pretty sure that, whatever else isotretinoin can permanently do to one's body, I simply have an Accutane-induced version of PFS.

As to the far superior organization of the patients/users/victims, I'm probably stating what's obvious, but for whatever it is or isn't worth, I'd imagine this is largely due to demographic issues. Judging by the current market status of the drugs, is it safe to assume there are far more patients/victims of Finasteride? Perhaps more importantly than the number of people involved, In the case of Propecia, considering that it was sold for male pattern baldness rather than acne, I'd imagine the classical or average user is at least ten years older, and thus well into their twenties before becoming "disabled," or whatever one might call it. To put it plainly, the finasteride victims were at least allowed to become adults.We, rhetorically speaking, were largely denied that luxury. Grotesque, is it not?

On 11 August 2016 at 1:21 PM, Iamme. said:

Yeah I used dl-phenyalanine and L-tyrosine as I read they could recover dopamine pathways. A few times I felt pressure at the front of my head, which I had read other forum members discuss being these new dopamine pathways being built. Not sure if thats true, doesnt seem likely, idk, but it happened and as of now my libido game be strong.

That's good to hear that's helped you, what sort of dosages of each supplement were you taking?

On 8/11/2016 at 7:13 PM, hatetane said:

Vit D, Vit A, vit K2, zinc, boron, magnesium and calcium all work together and need some balance.

20 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

In any case I tried Vit K along with Magnesium and Vit D when it was all the rage 6 months ago - did NOTHING.

I would be looking at vitamin k strictly in the mk7 form to try to mimic what should be happening in the gut normally. this has a half life of around 72 hours so it would be available "on call" so to speak when needed for any normal body functions it might be involved in. being that this is being secreted in the gut, it also might have a effect on gut health. A theory is that the person would supplement with mk7 and stay away from a high calcium diet and maybe even vitamin d supplements, that could make any complications with calcium worse. Im thinking more of unbound calcium that might be constricting blood vessels to the point of muscle spasms or tics that could indicate a serious problem with  calcium or that its not being properly absorbed. 
    Vitamin k has been shown to raise vitamin d levels in itself without vitamin d supplementation.
A very small amount of vitamin k is needed for proper blood coagulation. but much more maybe needed for the rest of the normal processes that require its use in the body.(this normally isnt a problem if your gut is producing the needed amount of vitamin k.
I found a link that its the probiotic e.coli that produces vitamin k2.
this is from tanedouts test. it shows no growth for e coli

Taking broad-spectrum antibiotics can reduce vitamin K production in the gut by nearly 74% in people compared with those not taking these antibiotics.^[22]

Just wondering if this process was somehow able to stay crippled.
Also if their was a lack of beneficial e. coli in the body, other probiotics might be down right dangerous if they further compete with e. coli, which could have a direct effect on the body's vitamin k levels.

And yes I know im all over the place.There is a method to my madness. Im going to be wrong about some things.
But ive been pretty right about some predictions or thoughts ive had as well. and then found the research to back it up. Im just trying to put out as much info as I can so we can all make connections. So we can all play detective. Who ever wants to anyways. My eyes and ears are wide open. I dont want this to control my life for another second, so im moving fast.

13 hours ago, john86 said:

Yes, absolutely. In my case, I'm pretty sure that, whatever else isotretinoin can permanently do to one's body, I simply have an Accutane-induced version of PFS.

I am beginning to reach the conclusion I have simply underwent some sort of epigenetic change and that the cause (i.e., Accutane), is no longer relevant. I do not believe Accutane is in my body anymore, but that the signalling of some essential bodily process was tampered with because of Accutane. But someone could easily have my gamut of symptoms without ever touching the stuff. If the cause of our issues are epigenetic/signal related, it could have went in 1,000 different directions for any one of us. I think blood tests, genetic tests, gut flora tests, etc. could all help, but I do not think we are ever going to be able to point at any common denominator (post-treatment) in all of us, except Accutane. That being said, I still believe there should be studies done on those of us with post-Accutane syndrome; there is a lot to be learned still. At the end of the day, I'm just talking out my ***, and although that paragraph may have sounded cynical, I actually do have strong belief I will recover one day (within the next decade). Side note: I take everyone's suggestions seriously.

Despite my hunch that the cause is is epigenetic and likely different for everyone, I cannot ignore all of the studies that show specific bodily processes being altered (hippocampal cellular death, hypothalamic apoptosis, orbitofrontal cortex blood flow alterations/organic brain damage, reduced serotonin concentrations, downregulation of telomerase). When I can discover ways to alter one of these systems, I try it out. That is why I have tried substances that specifically induce neurogenesis. The problem is that I have had VERY limited success when I do my "targeted, evidence-based treatments." (However, I am yet to try a few.) That is why I am lately inclined to believe that a more systemic/ epigenetic change took place, akin to PFS. I just hope our bodies are able to recognize these epigenetic changes as a negative, and not simply a new norm. Hopefully the correct mechanisms are in place, but I have no idea how any of THAT works. And nobody will know until studies are done.

13 hours ago, john86 said:

As to the far superior organization of the patients/users/victims, I'm probably stating what's obvious, but for whatever it is or isn't worth, I'd imagine this is largely due to demographic issues.

Ha, we really do think alike. I was trying to contemplate demographic reasons why PFS sufferers had better organization as well. I came up dry because Accutane is given to people of both sexes, and it is being prescribed more liberally now a days. You're right that people given the Finasteride prescriptions are much older than Accutane patients and therefore may have the maturity and resources to organize/retaliate. But even young Accutane sufferers have parents to advocate for them. Of course, it doesn't help that the side effects are often vague to describe or taboo. Also, once the younger victims age, I'd like to think they'd still be invigorated to do something. Alternatively, maybe "PFS" is simply more common in Finasteride than Accutane!

13 hours ago, john86 said:

To put it plainly, the finasteride victims were at least allowed to become adults.We, rhetorically speaking, were largely denied that luxury. Grotesque, is it not?

It's a shame. I've heard stories from so many motivated people who were shattered by this drug. I can't be the only one who binge reads those anecdotes. I know it's bad for the psych, but it's the only thing I can feel a connection to anymore, obviously because it hits so close to home.

2 hours ago, guitarman01 said:

I would be looking at vitamin k strictly in the mk7 form to try to mimic what should be happening in the gut normally. this has a half life of around 72 hours so it would be available "on call" so to speak when needed for any normal body functions it might be involved in. being that this is being secreted in the gut, it also might have a effect on gut health. A theory is that the person would supplement with mk7 and stay away from a high calcium diet and maybe even vitamin d supplements, that could make any complications with calcium worse. Im thinking more of unbound calcium that might be constricting blood vessels to the point of muscle spasms or tics that could indicate a serious problem with  calcium or that its not being properly absorbed. 
    Vitamin k has been shown to raise vitamin d levels in itself without vitamin d supplementation.
A very small amount of vitamin k is needed for proper blood coagulation. but much more maybe needed for the rest of the normal processes that require its use in the body.(this normally isnt a problem if your gut is producing the needed amount of vitamin k.
I found a link that its the probiotic e.coli that produces vitamin k2.
this is from tanedouts test. it shows no growth for e coli

Taking broad-spectrum antibiotics can reduce vitamin K production in the gut by nearly 74% in people compared with those not taking these antibiotics.^[22]

Just wondering if this process was somehow able to stay crippled.
Also if their was a lack of beneficial e. coli in the body, other probiotics might be down right dangerous if they further compete with e. coli, which could have a direct effect on the body's vitamin k levels.

And yes I know im all over the place.Their is a method to my madness. Im going to be wrong about some things.
But ive been pretty right about some predictions or thoughts ive had as well. and then found the research to back it up. Im just trying to put out as much info as I can so we can all make connections. So we can all play detective. Who ever wants to anyways. My eyes and ears are wide open. I dont want this to control my life for another second, so im moving fast.

This is some really interesting info you're presenting here - thank you. Apart from getting full panel checks in recent blood tests, my focus was more on the whole "copper" issue that kept being brought up, might be time to check Calcium and Vit K again.

I remember some years ago getting extremely sore shins as if my bone structure was changing, scans at the time didn't find anything sinister but I could of investigated further. Doctors put vein issues down to lifestyle factors but my instincts tell me differently!!

Hard just to know where to go next with all this isn't it.!

Hey everyone, I know I don't post often, but I wanted to give an update about my progress with the doctor I'm currently seeing (mentioned him in my last post but will reiterate).

The doctor I'm seeing now is into one on one care, and he isn't a part of any office or group. I only found out about him because of a family friend. After being interviewed by him for well over an hour, he was able to tell me what to take after a week of what I assume was him processing the information I had given him. While he did say that it could take quite some time before I notice any effects, I have definitely noticed some slight improvements and it has only been 3 days since taking my initial dose.

My improvements include increased oil production, improvement in my heart palpitations, and -- I know this may sound random -- return of dandruff. Prior to taking Accutane, my hair would be a greasy mess every morning, but after taking it, it's as if I woke up every day showered. As of late, the greasy mess that used to be my hair is finally coming back, and I never thought that I would be glad to see it return. I am also starting to break out a little on my back, which is where it was the worst before I took Accutane (again, can't believe that I'm actually glad to see this happening). As for the dandruff, I never really struggled badly with it, but it was definitely something that I had throughout my life. When I first started Accutane, I noticed it got really bad for about a week, but then it disappeared and never seemed to come back; however, I am noticing that it has definitely been returning, and the only thing different about my lifestyle would be whatever the doctor told to me to take (sorry for not being 100% certain about it, and it may sound crazy trusting this guy, but my friend swears by him, plus he's super old so i don't think he's out to get anyone :P. I will ask later and update when i can). Now my heart palpitations have kinda morphed into a different thing. To elaborate, my heart issue these past three days hasgone from a stutter/thud/flutter to a dull pain. I'd say that's improvement just because the palpitations would hurt sometimes, but now it's kinda just constant dull pain (nothing insane). The doctor said that this was normal and that it should clear in a few days, but if it doesn't I I'll just get it checked out again even though the cardiologist said everything appeared to be normal last time I got it checked.

I'm still struggling with some sexual side effects, and they don't seem to have gotten any better yet over the course of these three days; however, they have definitely improved since I stopped taking Accutane. My dry mouth hasn't seemed to improved over these past 3 days either, but the dryness of my lips may have improved (not sure if it's just the weather, so I need to give myself more time to observe).

I also had one question. Has anyone recovered from not getting morning erections after taking Accutane? I seldom get them anymore, and although they have been increasing in frequency (happening maybe 2-3 times a week if I'm lucky), it worries me to think that that may never return to normal because it is definitely an indicator that something is still wrong.

Anyways, hopefully things continue to improve to the point where I can finally say that I'm out of this hell hole, but until then I'm just trying to stay strong. Best of luck to everyone!