Buddy of mine started a forum and because i think this syndrome deserves a better research format he added a Post Accutane Syndrome subforum for me.

I think this would be so much better then one long ass thread that's impossible to navigate to find old protocols etc. Could have dedicated threads to zinc/copper. methylation, gut and other theories. I spend most my research time looking at the similarities with PFS and PSSD with accutane. Some of them are strikingly similar regarding the crash and certain recoveries even.

Feel free to start some threads [Edited link out]

1 hour ago, ACCUiTy_drANE said:

So I was wondering if there have been any updates regarding Nathan Carr's theory about Accutane inducing telomere shortening. I've been researching this angle for a while and came across something I wanted to run by you guys.

Background for the Casual Lurkers and Newbies to Accutane Side Effects: I will briefly break down Carr's theory (using imprecise language for simplicity) for some context. Accutane metabolizes into a drug called ATRA (All trans retinoic acid) in the body, a drug that downregulates the telomerase enzyme in cells. Telomerase "protect" the telomeres of cells. What are telomeres? Telomeres determine how many times a cell can divide before it dies, or reaches the Hayflick Limit. Telomeres basically maintain the integrity of chromosomes in cells, but they naturally become shorter every time a cell divides. Basically, telomerase "slows" this process of shortening telomeres so that the cell can divide MORE times before dying.

Put simply, less of this of the telomerase enzyme essentially leads to increased telomere shortening and, therefore, increased cellular death. Contrary to popular belief, telomerase does exist in more than just cancer cells. They happen to be prevalent in stem cells, which exist in adults' skin, gut, brain, muscles, teeth, etc. No wonder Accutane's side effects are so diverse!

Over the years, evidence has only surfaced to SUPPORT the significance of ATRA's telomere shortening effects on both the "therapeutic" effects AND side effects of Accutane. HOWEVER, this telomere effect was never directly studied for Accutane SPECIFICALLY. (As I stated, it's the drug Accutane is converted into that induces telomere shortening.) Nevertheless, Accutane has been found to induce apoptosis on all of the following type of cells: brain (hippocampal), sebaceous, meibomian, bone, muscle. etc.

My Main Point: It's rare that I see people try to address Accutane's side effects from the perspective Carr's finding. To be fair, very few compounds have been found to have an effect an telomeres, but there are a few. Has anyone heard of Epitalon/Epithalon? Check out these studies:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15455129?dopt=Abstract

"Peptide-treated cells with elongated telomeres made 10 extra divisions (44 passages) in comparison with the control and continued dividing. Hence, Epithalon prolonged the vital cycle of normal human cells due to overcoming the Heyflick limit."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12937682?dopt=Abstract

"Addition of Epithalon peptide in telomerase-negative human fetal fibroblast culture induced expression of the catalytical subunit, enzymatic activity of telomerase, and telomere elongation, which can be due to reactivation of telomerase gene in somatic cells and indicates the possibility of prolonging life span of a cell population and of the whole organism."

Firstly, note how this research reaffirms the relevance of telomerase in SOMATIC cells. Also importantly, it begs the question: Could Epiphalon reverse the gene-altering effects of Accutane? Forgive my hyperbole, but perhaps it takes something profound to undo a poison of Accutane's caliber. Maybe generic supplements and foods aren't enough. I'm not getting my hopes up, but this study seems promising. At the very least, this peptide may support other recovery methods (dietary changes, flushing, etc.) by replenishing cells.

Here's the potential pitfall. Even if we are lacking telomerase in our "healthy" cells, it's no secret that telomerase is relevant to cancer cells. How could this compound know WHERE to upregulate telomerase and where NOT to? If it's any reassurance, Epitalon shows cancer-fighting effects. I will link a two articles I found on that topic, but there are more.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12209581?dopt=Abstract

Reduction of mammary tumors.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304383502000903?np=y

Reduction of bowel carcinogenesis.

My Final Thoughts: Overall, it SOUNDS like a solid peptide given some of our issues. Anecdotally, I have read about people experiences' on this compound, and a common comment people make is on how it impacts their skin quality. I have never tried this myself nor have I heard of an Accutane victim trying it. This peptide has happened to gain popularity in nootropic communities, which tend to attract HEALTHY people looking for potential ENHANCEMENT rather than healing effects. As an "unhealthy folk" who was already screwed over by a drug once, I'll admit I am apprehensive about trying Epiphalon. Further, I've read about hundreds of supplements in this thread alone, and I am often disappointed by my results. I am just wondering if anyone has tried Epitalon for themselves. If not, I'd be thrilled if intelligent people could comment on the articles I linked regarding its effect on telomeres. . . I had to throw this out there. I will probably take the plunge, unless I am way off-base somehow. Take this information with a grain of salt. I am not telling you to try anything.

WOW - After reading that you can't expect any supplement to fix us, that sort of reading equates to damage as far as i can tell.

Perhaps that product you mention is worth trying - don't know anything about it but will investigate for sure.

Thanks for detailed info

1 hour ago, oli girl said:

On 30 June 2016 at 0:09 PM, TrueJustice said:

Thanks for info - I'm currently taking Swedish Bitters which prob does the same thing in aiding stomach.

Does anyone know which type of Specialist deals with "Auto Immune" diseases??

This might be my next line of investigating. It's been quite a week fitting in Colonoscopy and Gastropothy, finally getting those copper blood tests done tomorrow too, plus trying to hold down a full time job in a state of fatigue....

You know I wonder if you that are from Australia ever go to any of the seminars or follow food matters. I would love to travel over there, and where Jason Vale is from and do his juicing retreat. I feel so much better when I am on schedule. I have had a rough year personally so...you know.

Havent done these myself but I'll look them up!

I have just enough energy to go to work and do a little exercise. This coupled with the energy that goes into thinking about my problems and doing tests etc is as good as it gets at the moment.

Never thought life could be so cruel - insane and totally unnecessary suffering, all just for mild acne on my back and shoulders....

I'm sorry to everyone who has to suffer this shit!!

telomere theory is bs, it can shorten or grow longer according to the environment, inflammation, according if you exercice, etc. some animals have far longer telomere than us, and have a short lifespan. this telomere thing got made up just to sell their 500$ supplement bottle.

10 hours ago, anonyy said:

telomere theory is bs, it can shorten or grow longer according to the environment, inflammation, according if you exercice, etc. some animals have far longer telomere than us, and have a short lifespan. this telomere thing got made up just to s7ell their 500$ supplement bottle.

Although it's true that there are differences in telomere length between species (and even gender, if I recall correctly)that do not correlate clearly to life expectancy, it's misleading to call the telomere theory total nonesense.

We know Accutane metabolizes into a drug that shortens telomeres. We know that IN THE CONTEXT of one individual, regardless of what their life expectancy is, shortened telomeres equal INCREASED cellular death. Broadly speaking, telomere length does not tell the full story. *But when you narrow the focus to one organism and one cell, we know that shortened telomeres equal increased cellular death.* Essentially, every organism has a "normal" or "optimal" telomere activity and the fact Accutane tampers with it is probably bad.

In any case, if the telomerase enzyme that regulates telomere length is downregulated, certainly it is worth looking into a peptide that seems to reactivate it. Without it, how can balance be re-established even if telomere length is as fickle/malleable as you imply?

Problem is, it's a Peptide!?

Do they really know the side effects of these drugs yet??

what are we gonna end up buying some crazy Peptide made in Russia? I just don't know enough about them to be willing to try.....yet

13 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:

Problem is, it's a Peptide!?

Do they really know the side effects of these drugs yet??

what are we gonna end up buying some crazy Peptide made in Russia? I just don't know enough about them to be willing to try.....yet

I completely sympathize with your concerns! We are dealing with a largely unknown compound. But it seems to be associated with plenty of favorable effects including anti-aging, anti-cancer, and cognitive improvement. I'd call it hype, but there are studies to back it up. Besides, it's not even marketed by any one entity that has exclusive patent rights to it. 

It's on my list of things to try, but I am going to start with lower risk compounds first, such as cannabidiol. Of course, diet and exercise are priority number 1 always.

http://healthimpactnews.com/2012/popular-acne-drug-is-one-of-the-most-dangerous-drugs-ever-made/

11 hours ago, ACCUiTy_drANE said:

Although it's true that there are differences in telomere length between species (and even gender, if I recall correctly)that do not correlate clearly to life expectancy, it's misleading to call the telomere theory total nonesense.

We know Accutane metabolizes into a drug that shortens telomeres. We know that IN THE CONTEXT of one individual, regardless of what their life expectancy is, shortened telomeres equal INCREASED cellular death. Broadly speaking, telomere length does not tell the full story. *But when you narrow the focus to one organism and one cell, we know that shortened telomeres equal increased cellular death.* Essentially, every organism has a "normal" or "optimal" telomere activity and the fact Accutane tampers with it is probably bad.

In any case, if the telomerase enzyme that regulates telomere length is downregulated, certainly it is worth looking into a peptide that seems to reactivate it. Without it, how can balance be re-established even if telomere length is as fickle/malleable as you imply?

look into SOD enzymes

Im not saying liver cancer. im saying ongoing liver problems could lead to copper problems or altered copper metabolism.
So all these abnormal copper results could indicate there is still abnormalities going on in the liver
maybe same in a nutshell with propecia. It is hard on the liver. might not show up in standard test.
but these copper results are one of the few clues we got.

http://www.academia.edu/3131368/Relevance_of_non-ceruloplasmin_copper_to_oxidative_stress_in_patients_with_hepatocellular_carcinoma
online: 20 February 2009

#
Humana Press Inc. 2009
Abstract
Altered copper homeostasis and oxidative stress have been observed in patients with hepatocellular carcinoma. Non-ceruloplasmin copper, the free form, is a potent pro-oxidant than the protein bound copper. The aim of the present study was to evaluate which form of copper can be correlated with the oxidative stress in the circulation and in themalignant liver tissues of hepatocellular carcinoma patients. Hepatocellular carcinoma patients (grades II and III,
n
=18) were enrolled in this study. Serum levels of total, free and bound copper, ceruloplasmin, iron, iron-binding capacity, lipid peroxidation products, andenzymatic and non-enzymatic antioxidants were quantified in serum and in malignant liver tissues and compared with those of normal samples (
n
=20). A significant positivecorrelation between the serum non-ceruloplasmin copper and lipid peroxidation productsand negative correlation with antioxidants were observed in hepatocellular carcinoma patients. In liver tissue, glutathione peroxidase, superoxide dismutase, and catalase activitywere significantly decreased with concomitant elevation in oxidative stress markers. Our experiment revealed that the elevation in non-ceruloplasmin copper has high relevance withthe oxidative stress than the bound copper

On 7/3/2016 at 3:16 PM, ACCUiTy_drANE said:

it is worth looking into a peptide that seems to reactivate it.

Just going to post this whole thing. what the hell.

[Edited link out]

Anyone ever tried the herb 'Vitex' with regards to tane sides?! A couple of people on SolvePFS have had excellent responses to this (specifically taking it alongside testosterone boosters, but also without). I've actually read this thread before, but I think I discounted it as I assumed vitex was a pharmaceutical drug (based on the name alone!), but it is a natural herb

[Edited link out]

I've not read too much about it, but will read up. Anyone tried it?

Quote

So I decided to start a blog to condense my experiences into one thread, I will be updating my progress here. Thus far, after 5 months of DHT experimentation, I have used for the first time Testosterone Enanthate without DHT, and I have responded to it at about 80% response. All symptoms of PFS reversed, but I am also sick with a virus of some kind, and this fits into my theories about a possible drug induced autoimmune disorder. I only hope that these responses are gains I have made, and not because of my weakened immune system. Though, there have been 2 other reports of reversed symptoms of PFS while sick, and my symptoms have always improved when I was sleep deprived. I have been stretching myself while sick to keep this state as long as possible, working out, going out, not sleeping enough etc...

I also started Vitex 1600mg a day, Vitex seems to have increased my response to testosterone as well, it is an anti estrogen, it regulates progesterone, it is an anti-prolactin and a dopamine agonist. Vitex seems to have been designed for PFS! It is a natural herb, I have already received a report of its use with great success, my first day on it, I have noticed an increase in response to testosterone. It has been a week since I took an AI, I am attempting to gauge my response to testosterone now that it has been 5 months of experimentation with various forms of DHT. I am curious also if my response is somehow increased due to my progesterone cycle and the DHT use, only time will tell. Libido increased a lot, erections have been perfectly normal and to pre PFS size and function, sensitivity and orgasms all normal. Muscle size and vascularity has increased a lot, sebum production increased, mood, all aspects of PFS.

It is too soon to draw any conclusions, I did notice estrogen was rising, that was when I started Vitex, and Vitex seemed to continue my response to testosterone. I am going to let Masteron Enanthate deplete from my system to gauge my natural response to test enanthate, I am also not sure if this response is due to low levels of masteron enanthate in my system. It is possible that masteron enanthate is effective at low levels, there are too many variables, stay tuned and I will continue to report. However, currently, I am spontaneously responding to testosterone again, this has only occurred a few times in the past, long before I devised my theories of PFS.

Quote

It would seem that with 1600mg of Vitex a day, I am responding to testosterone at about 80% or more. I have not required an AI in more than a week, my muscles are increasing in size, libido is very strong. I would consider myself Pfs reversed currently, Vitex is an anti prolactin, dopamine agonist. Vitex regulates estrogen and progesterone and increases endogenous testosterone. I am amazed that no one has experimented with this before, ihatepropecia has been using it now for a month with astounding success. It has increased his response to testosterone, his muscles are harder and bigger and his libido is stronger. Ihatepropecia considers himself recovered from Pfs, but has residual Pfs symptoms on higher doses of testosterone like water retention or softer muscles (though he is very muscular and responding normally to test otherwise).

 

I am astounded by the success so far, ihatepropecia has told me that Vitex has become more and more effective as every week passes. I plan to see how this plays out for me, I am allowing Masteron to wear off, and I am going to see how I do on just testosterone and Vitex. I have considered a very low dose of Masteron enanthate to give me a more dry chiseled look as there is some puffiness with pfs, but I will wait to see if Vitex drys me out first. It is doing a good job of it, im not bloated, very little water retention, I am impressed.

With Pfs, we just have to wait and see over the next few weeks what happens. I am maintaining a weekly dose of testosterone 200mg.

 

22 hours ago, anonyy said:

telomere theory is bs, it can shorten or grow longer according to the environment, inflammation, according if you exercice, etc. some animals have far longer telomere than us, and have a short lifespan. this telomere thing got made up just to sell their 500$ supplement bottle.

it is not BS! It's been documented and published by Nathan and I take no supplement at that amount! Not sure what you have read ?????

They always confuse symptoms with causes.

18 hours ago, guitarman01 said:

What is most exciting is the ability of carnosine to reverse the signs of aging in cells approaching senescence. When the scientists transferred late-passage fibroblasts to a culture medium containing carnosine, they exhibited a rejuvenated appearance and often an enhanced capacity to divide. They again grew in the characteristic whorled growth patterns of young fibroblasts, and resumed a uniform appearance. But when they transferred the fibroblasts back to a medium lacking carnosine, the signs of senescence quickly reappeared.

18 hours ago, guitarman01 said:

The carnosine medium also increased life span, even for old cells. The number of PDs, or population doublings, provides a convenient measure of cell division. When late-passage lung fibroblasts at 55 PDs (population doublings) were transferred to the carnosine medium, they lived to 69 to 70 PDs, compared to 57 to 61 PDs for the fibroblasts that were not transferred. Moreover, the fibroblasts transferred to the carnosine medium, they lived to 69 to 70 PDs, compared to 57 to 61 PDs for the fibroblasts that were not transferred. Moreover, the fibroblasts transferred to the carnosine medium attained a life span of 413 days, compared to 126 to 139 days for the control fibroblasts. Carnosine increased chronological life span more dramatically than PDs in the Australian series of experiments.

Fascinating! So it seems Epitalon and Carnosine have the ability to rejuvenate cells. However, we know Epitalon acts on telomerase, which is exactly what Accutane (likely) depletes. I am not sure if L-carnosine is acting in the same way to achieve its cell rejuvenation effects. Nevertheless, L-carnosine is effective at mitigating Accutane symptoms while people are on the drug, so I wonder how it would translate to people who are off:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10642057

"Their supplementation with L-car, in patients of group C (N = 20) without Iso discontinuation or reduction, resulted in the disappearance of their muscular symptoms within 5-6 days and normalisation not only of the increased levels of their liver enzymes but also those of car, at the 45 day of their therapy. Additionally, the patients who received placebo (group P, N = 20) continued complaining for mualgias ."

5 hours ago, anonyy said:

They always confuse symptoms with causes.

Again, you can argue science doesn't completely understand telomeres. But the facts remain that Accutane metabolizes into a drug that disrupts telomeres. If a compound exists that can upregulate the exact enzyme Accutane downregulates (i.e., telomerase), it has my attention.

The uncertainty I will grant you is that we don't know if telomere shortening/disruption is the main source of our issues (even if we can PROVE they were affected). But I think it's a big possibility given the fact Accutane has been found to cause cellular death in MULTIPLE organs. What causes cellular death? Telomere shortening. Bingo.

The symptoms and consequences of cellular death mimic what a lot of what we are going through, ESPECIALLY for those of us with stomach issues and cognitive issues. The research has been posted here hundreds of times. I'm a little optimistic.

3 hours ago, ACCUiTy_drANE said:

Again, you can argue science doesn't completely understand telomeres. But the facts remain that Accutane metabolizes into a drug that disrupts telomeres. If a compound exists that can upregulate the exact enzyme Accutane downregulates (i.e., telomerase), it has my attention.

The uncertainty I will grant you is that we don't know if telomere shortening/disruption is the main source of our issues (even if we can PROVE they were affected). But I think it's a big possibility given the fact Accutane has been found to cause cellular death in MULTIPLE organs. What causes cellular death? Telomere shortening. Bingo.

The symptoms and consequences of cellular death mimic what a lot of what we are going through, ESPECIALLY for those of us with stomach issues and cognitive issues. The research has been posted here hundreds of times. I'm a little optimistic.

It's an interesting theory, and to be fair Epitalon does sound potentially quite promising (but so have so many things regards this mess!), it sounds relatively safe though, and loads of people have been trying it looking at Reddit, LongeCity etc, mainly for the anti-aging properties. I get the feeling if it had a positive effect it would probably need to be taken on a continuous basis though.

Epithalon (also known as Epitalon or Epithalone) is the synthetic version of the polypeptide Epithalamin which is naturally produced in humans. This pineal peptide preparation is secreted in the epithlamium-epiphyseal region of the brain. Its more prominent tasks are: to regulate metabolism in the epiphysis, increase the sensitivity of hypothalamus to its natural hormonal influences, normalize the function of the anterior pituitary, regulate the levels of gonadotropins and melatonin in the body. Epithalamin increases a person's resistance to emotional stress and also acts as an antioxidant.

• Telomerase activation (consequently, elongation of Telomeres)
• regulates neuroendocrinous system
• increases the hypothalamic sensitivity to the endogenous hormonal effects
• decrease or suppression of proliferative changes in vaginal epithelium and endometrium in anovulatory phase
• normalization of gonadotropic hormones levels (FSG, LG, prolactin)
• positive influence on peripheral haemodynamics: improvement of blood rheology, decrease of intravessel thrombogenesis
• regulation of the levels of reactants in the acute inflammation phase (c3-component of the complement, pre-albumin, C-reactive protein, alpha-orosomucoids
• normalization of T-cell immunity
• normalization of aqua-electrolyte balance indices
• normalization of uric acid levels
• normalization of Cholesterol
• rejuvenation / strengthening of the immune system
• inhibition of spontaneous and induced carcinogenesis (tumor prevention)

12 minutes ago, tanedout said:

• Telomerase activation (consequently, elongation of Telomeres)
• regulates neuroendocrinous system
• increases the hypothalamic sensitivity to the endogenous hormonal effects
• decrease or suppression of proliferative changes in vaginal epithelium and endometrium in anovulatory phase
• normalization of gonadotropic hormones levels (FSG, LG, prolactin)
• positive influence on peripheral haemodynamics: improvement of blood rheology, decrease of intravessel thrombogenesis
• regulation of the levels of reactants in the acute inflammation phase (c3-component of the complement, pre-albumin, C-reactive protein, alpha-orosomucoids
• normalization of T-cell immunity
• normalization of aqua-electrolyte balance indices
• normalization of uric acid levels
• normalization of Cholesterol
• rejuvenation / strengthening of the immune system
• inhibition of spontaneous and induced carcinogenesis (tumor prevention)

Glad to see this is gaining traction! I wasn't aware Epithalon acts on the hypothalamus, but that's a huge positive. The hypothalamus has been implicated in depression, and Accutane has been documented to cause apoptosis in this region. More potential connections. . .

12 minutes ago, tanedout said:

Been tried over on propeciahelp already though and benefits don't sound ground breaking..

http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10405

Although that is unfortunate, I'm not sure Propecia was ever found to disrupt telomere activity the way Accutane does. I understand many people believe Accutane's and Propercia's mechanism of action are similar in how they lead to sexual dysfunction. However, Accutane has many unique qualities. This peptide may not be the magic bullet for sexual side effects, but it may be able to undo some of the cellular death/cellular disturbances that occurred everywhere from the gut, hippocampus, hypothalamus, etc. In any case, I'm not completely discouraged in hearing about Epitalon's lack of efficacy for addressing Propecia's side effects.

1 hour ago, ACCUiTy_drANE said:

Glad to see this is gaining traction! I wasn't aware Epithalon acts on the hypothalamus, but that's a huge positive. The hypothalamus has been implicated in depression, and Accutane has been documented to cause apoptosis in this region. More potential connections. . .

Although that is unfortunate, I'm not sure Propecia was ever found to disrupt telomere activity the way Accutane does. I understand many people believe Accutane's and Propercia's mechanism of action are similar in how they lead to sexual dysfunction. However, Accutane has many unique qualities. This peptide may not be the magic bullet for sexual side effects, but it may be able to undo some of the cellular death/cellular disturbances that occurred everywhere from the gut, hippocampus, hypothalamus, etc. In any case, I'm not completely discouraged in hearing about Epitalon's lack of efficacy for addressing Propecia's side effects. 
 

Im still amazed at those who've recovered via Liver cleanses - are they full of shit or did they truly recover!!?

This peptide area I will say is encouraging, I'll be honest and say I've always looked for an equally powerful drug or supplement as Accutane - powerful as in something that can reverse the damage!!

Accutane adverse reaction for me was while on it - I was never one of those people who felt bad 2 or 3 years down the track , for me the pain was literally overnight.

A "peptide" might be the strongest thing yet to overcome damage - I certainly would also explore this over Cannibas Oil - it's got to be easier to obtain for one thing!!!!

very encouraging

http://healthimpactnews.com/2012/popular-acne-drug-is-one-of-the-most-dangerous-drugs-ever-made/

Accutane reduces transcription of 5ar type 1 and 3b-hsd many fold, competitively inhibits some forms of 3a-HSD, and the receptor that one of Accutane's metabolites binds to (RXR receptor) dimerizes with androgen receptor, thereby reducing transcription of AR target genes.

Many SSRI's drastically increase the reductive activity of 3a-HSD (DHT -> 3a-diol and DHP -> allopregnanolone), while inhibiting their oxidative activity (Allopregnanolone -> DHP and 3a-diol -> DHT) of the same enzymes, leading to a deficiency of DHT in effected cells.

Bottom line: Finasteride, Accutane, and SSRI's all reduce intracellular DHT via different mechanisms. For some reason a small amount of individuals cannot tolerate the reduction of DHT and it triggers a syndrome most commonly when the drug is removed..

Yeah I think that sounds like the most plausible theory Blackfox01. This paper sums it up really

http://www.protocol-online.org/forums/uploads/monthly_08_2010/msg-19273-027408800 1282061244.ipb

That's not to say it won't be possible to reverse the changes though, and some people have managed to.

There are about 3 studies being carried out on PFS suffers and the results are expected end of this year, early next, so that will give some answers.

8 minutes ago, tanedout said:

Yeah I think that sounds like the most plausible theory Blackfox01. This paper sums it up really

http://www.protocol-online.org/forums/uploads/monthly_08_2010/msg-19273-027408800 1282061244.ipb

That's not to say it won't be possible to reverse the changes though, and some people have managed to.

There are about 3 studies being carried out on PFS suffers and the results are expected end of this year, early next, so that will give some answers.

I suffer from PFS so i hope you dont mind me being here. I have literally talked to HUNDREDS of people across the globe who have been fucked by finasteride, Cipro, SSRIs, accutane etc

The similarities are mind boggling. One of the interesting one is how people take cipro many times with zero problems, or they take accutane many times with no problems. THen they take it one last time and BAM they get fucked, and 10-15 years later they are still screwed, but feel abit better mentally due to neuro-adaptation.

This tells me we need a differnt approach at trying to find the cause. If Accutane or Finasterides effect on Androgens was so terrible as we say after cherry picking many studies, why did lots of us feel FINE whilst on them?? Some people took Finasteride for 10 fucking years with ZERO side effects. Then they quit taking it cold turkey and 2 weeks later BAM something was screwed up.

From the androgenic angle, my theory is that these drugs cause a receptor to become sensitive then when they are withdrawn the receptor gets bombarded and the body shuts down the pathway as a protective mechanism. The second the pathway is turned off there are thousands if not trillions of downstream effects depending on ones individual biochemstiry which leads to a constant viscous cycle and they body can never recalbrate the pathways.

It seems some people can recover slowly over the next 1-5 years, whereas others literally stay the same for 15+. I know a guy who crashed on accutane 15 years ago and hrs no better.

From the recovery stories, it seems you either find a natural or synthetic product that interacts on the exact layer thats broken, and you megadose it and flick some switch which causes a recovery, or you go the hollistic route and acquire perfect health whilst in this terrible neuro-immune-endocrine state and allow the body to heal, which is borderline impossible.

In the meantime, i have started chelating mercury with the cutler protocal, and in the future i might try an epigenetic agent like EGCG in a megadose. A PFS guy who was also a cancer researcher managed to recover by megadosing a natural HDAC inhibitor once a month. He had PFS for 10 years before doing it.

Dont get me wrong though, the symptoms of these drug induced syndromes are similar but have their own individual characteristics depending on the drug. But i think the mechanism of action is the same.

15 hours ago, ACCUiTy_drANE said:

Again, you can argue science doesn't completely understand telomeres. But the facts remain that Accutane metabolizes into a drug that disrupts telomeres. If a compound exists that can upregulate the exact enzyme Accutane downregulates (i.e., telomerase), it has my attention.

The uncertainty I will grant you is that we don't know if telomere shortening/disruption is the main source of our issues (even if we can PROVE they were affected). But I think it's a big possibility given the fact Accutane has been found to cause cellular death in MULTIPLE organs. What causes cellular death? Telomere shortening. Bingo.

The symptoms and consequences of cellular death mimic what a lot of what we are going through, ESPECIALLY for those of us with stomach issues and cognitive issues. The research has been posted here hundreds of times. I'm a little optimistic.

If a drug cause a defect in the homeostasis of the body, the solution is not to take more drugs, it's to let the body restore it by itself, because only he can. You think of your body as a dead thing that needs to be artificially influenced on a perticular isolated aspect (here telomere), there is nothing more ignorant than that.

3 hours ago, anonyy said:

If a drug cause a defect in the homeostasis of the body, the solution is not to take more drugs, it's to let the body restore it by itself, because only he can. You think of your body as a dead thing that needs to be artificially influenced on a perticular isolated aspect (here telomere), there is nothing more ignorant than that.

People are not ignorant for having a thought or idea. Unnecessarily attacking people just slows any information or progress down to a crawl on here. The more people we have actively looking into this shit the better

14 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

Im still amazed at those who've recovered via Liver cleanses - are they full of shit or did they truly recover!!?

This peptide area I will say is encouraging, I'll be honest and say I've always looked for an equally powerful drug or supplement as Accutane - powerful as in something that can reverse the damage!!

Accutane adverse reaction for me was while on it - I was never one of those people who felt bad 2 or 3 years down the track , for me the pain was literally overnight.

A "peptide" might be the strongest thing yet to overcome damage - I certainly would also explore this over Cannibas Oil - it's got to be easier to obtain for one thing!!!!

very encouraging

I have no idea if the people who have done liver flushes actually recovered because of what they did. Sometimes when I see Accutane brought up on irrelevant forums I'll see phrases like: "I suffered from depression for years after" or "I dealt with IBS symptoms for years after." The point is, some talk about their issues in the past tense. Some are just destined to improve with time, which is reassuring in some ways. But it also corrupts the process of figuring out what actually works. It's hard to distinguish who got better because of a protocol and who got lucky. 

Also, Epitalon is fairly easy to obtain. The biggest issue is the fact it has to be injected or taken intranasally. 

4 hours ago, anonyy said:

If a drug cause a defect in the homeostasis of the body, the solution is not to take more drugs, it's to let the body restore it by itself, because only he can. You think of your body as a dead thing that needs to be artificially influenced on a perticular isolated aspect (here telomere), there is nothing more ignorant than that.

What I don't understand is your tendency to attack other peoples' ideas for supplements on the basis of "the whole body needs to be considered." Yet, you yourself recommend supplements. How come when I give a suggestion based on science it's quickly branded as ignorant, but when you do so it's part of a larger plan? That is the definition of a false dichotomy, until I receive a rational argument. (Even someone who liked your comment brings up the possibility of megadosing particular substances, so I'm not sure what is going on here. Haha. What am I missing? :P) 

Of course I realize there are several facets to health. I never said Epitalon was the end-all; it simply has the potential to undo an action by Accutane. Epitalon is naturally in the human body anyway, but such a standard has nothing to do with its safety profile. Its safety profile is verified by countless studies.