3 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:

Again, what are we going to do with Copper info???

Over,Under, In Balance - You said it yourself that best thing to do to combat problems is to detox - I'm just not sure on your reasons why for looking at Copper?

I'm just not sure where we are going with all this Copper info?

Will post my results soon just to keep all the scientists happy

because for now im betting the farm on this copper BS. Ive been to the darkside with copper and am still there. These arent vitamin A symptoms, but this is maybe the much more serious shit that people have suffered because of this drug. So like I said before im not letting it go yet. Noone has any idea what im talking about and thats fine. But ive seen a real simple blueprint to look into more so then all my years on these forums, going back to the Rag/action days.

9 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:

Again, what are we going to do with Copper info???

Over,Under, In Balance - You said it yourself that best thing to do to combat problems is to detox - I'm just not sure on your reasons why for looking at Copper?

I'm just not sure where we are going with all this Copper info?

Will post my results soon just to keep all the scientists happy

did it for fun, and yea if something is out of balance, it's from congestion issue, malabsorption, failure to eliminate, and liver weakness. in any case rock-made supplement add burden, and the body cannot use more than 10% of it.

58 minutes ago, guitarman01 said:

1 hour ago, TrueJustice said:

Again, what are we going to do with Copper info???

Over,Under, In Balance - You said it yourself that best thing to do to combat problems is to detox - I'm just not sure on your reasons why for looking at Copper?

I'm just not sure where we are going with all this Copper info?

Will post my results soon just to keep all the scientists happy

because for now im betting the farm on this copper BS. Ive been to the darkside with copper and am still there. These arent vitamin A symptoms, but this is maybe the much more serious shit that people have suffered because of this drug. So like I said before im not letting it go yet. Noone has any idea what im talking about and thats fine. But ive seen a real simple blueprint to look into more so then all my years on these forums, going back to the Rag/action days.

Thats cool - I like your dedication to the whole copper thing!

How do you feel about liver flushes at the same time though??

Old Rag/Action days - whatever happened to Patti Lordes??

That poor lady had a thing or two to say about ongoing side effects!

2 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:

Thats cool - I like your dedication to the whole copper thing!

How do you feel about liver flushes at the same time though??

Old Rag/Action days - whatever happened to Patti Lordes??

That poor lady had a thing or two to say about ongoing side effects!

liver flushes? man im just trying to have normal shits right now. hasnt happen yet. if you look back on my first post about copper when i didnt know wtf was going on, I said it was making my feet numb. Well come to find out it wasnt numbness, it was swelling from getting binded up so severely. I am now constantly bloated and still get the feet swelling that comes and goes. I dont know when its going to stop. Also inflammation, copper had such a effect it made my nose hurt. It was causing my eyes and nose to constantly run. I was like oh this is a powerful decongestant. NO. that was stupid, that was me wanting to believe in something because i was desperate and optimistic. It was just severe inflammation that was causing this. and this was on lower doses of copper at the time. this happened very quickly.
The really wicked effects started coming after I started taking this l carnosine that circulates copper that was probably building up in my intestines.. It circulates, then gets excreted in the urine. So I hope. I need to get some more blood test myself to see where im at.
I'd tell you some of the other lowlights of copper but i dont have the patience atm.
And anyone can go F themselves that thinks im making this up. Thats not what im about.

I didnt think about accutane for a long time. I always chalked my problems up to other shit. like smoking for example. Then I quit all the other shit and realized I still had problems . So now this has become a obsession. If im wrong about this copper shit though, im prob gone for good. just from this forum I mean. im not going back to liver flushes, taurine, wtf ever. we've pretty much looked at every supplement from a to zinc. This place can be just as toxic as it is helpful. but we will see.

Your symptoms are all natural, copper blocks the kidneys and the adrenals, swelling up is normal, and i also had it for 2 days after taking the copper myself, in feet and hands. Adrenals control the nervous system (part of it anyway), and specially in relation with intestinal peristalsis (had some issue there too after the copper). Took me 2 weeks to have noany weakness left from this one time dose i took (~2.5mg on empty stomach).
Gland most poisoned by accutaneis truly the adrenals, and pituitary next. Everything toxic you take, just add more to the burden.

29 minutes ago, anonyy said:

Your symptoms are all natural, copper blocks the kidneys and the adrenals, swelling up is normal, and i also had it for 2 days after taking the copper myself, in feet and hands. Adrenals control the nervous system (part of it anyway), and specially in relation with intestinal peristalsis (had some issue there too after the copper). Took me 2 weeks to have noany weakness left from this one time dose i took (~2.5mg on empty stomach).
Gland most poisoned by accutaneis truly the adrenals, and pituitary next. Everything toxic you take, just add more to the burden.

I always thought with ANY supplement whether a vitamin or a mineral that if your body doesn't need it, it will just excrete it - Doctors call it expensive urine!!

So what's special about Adrenal or gland supplements that they too won't clog up kidneys and liver???

Im just trying to understand what's ok to take and what isn't - again most of it should come from food - good quality fruit and vegetables correct!?

adrenal supplement, and herbs are natural. everything whole and uncooked is good yes. but sometimes cooked food can ease things, slow things down, like rice potatoes etc. about meat i believe fish once every 2 weeks or more can be positive, to slow things down and help with a positive stimulative effect, but too much will just prevent detox.

14 minutes ago, anonyy said:

adrenal supplement, and herbs are natural. everything whole and uncooked is good yes. but sometimes cooked food can ease things, slow things down, like rice potatoes etc. about meat i believe fish once every 2 weeks or more can be positive, to slow things down and help with a positive stimulative effect, but too much will just prevent detox.

Playing the devils advocate- what's unnatural about supplementing copper?? The body needs it regardless of how we provide it.

I'm just trying to determine what's good vs bad in the big wide world of supplements!?

I appreciate your response

the body isn't made to eat rocks x) neither isolated nutrients. things works as a whole.

4 minutes ago, anonyy said:

the body isn't made to eat rocks x) neither isolated nutrients. things works as a whole.

Thanks - I'm understanding.

Have you ever taken anything specifically for Pituitary Gland??

Or would that be covered when you supplement with Dr Morses Glandular tonic for example??

I've discovered a supplier of theirs in Aust so I'm ready to buy some of their supplements!!

Also gearing up for 5th Liver cleanse.

glandular tonic can help, but it's mainly with glandular's extract. isotherapy also helped about it, but i can't advise it, need to be done at the right time.

I'm sure I did Isotherapy when I did some treatments with Homeopath - didn't do anything for me BUT back then I hadn't completed any liver flushes and I know how important this is in aiding the process.

Might be time soon after a couple of flushes to look at Isotherapy again.

Yes at the wrong time it just make things worse. My homeopath told me to take only one globul everytime, and it's far better.

Hello everyone,
I am French and a few months ago that I am this discussion without being registered, I read a lot and deepened my knowledge serious to you all.

I will explain my case:
11 months of 30mg Roacutane started 5 years ago
Acne treatment still present after more appearance of a very dry skin and cysts
Hair loss
Weight loss: 16kg

My actions:
There are two years I eat gluten free and lactose free, refined sugar, very good improvement in acne

Burdock Test: severe rash, I quit
Cure for 8 months cure desmodium
Results: itchy scalp disappeared
Aloe vera internally 1mois cure to cure intestinal glands

I wash my hair with ayurvedic powders Sidr, brhingarj + provitamin b5 + msms

Result: Fall halted, hair taking up the volume
Face Water distilled + msms provitamin b5 +
hydrated skin dander reduced by 70%

Cure 3 months of L glutamine Effect detox
Result: no

Taking vitamin mixture 1 month: Betaselen
-vitamin C 200mg
-vitamin E 200mg
-beta-Carotene 9mg
-zinc 5mg
-selenium 5UQ

results:
improving libido
not floating saddle> weight gain
condition improved

Late taking treatment:
depression for 2 days, no desire no motivation, I cried a lot
Return to the health condition before taking betaselen, floating saddle, less libido ...

I now taking vitamins from Solgar,

Vitamin C 1000mg: quit because severe headache
3 months:
Vitmaine D3 1000iu
Vitamin B complex B1.2.3.5.6.8.13
msm 900mg
Result skin less dry but eruption of buttons every day ..
Libido improved slightly

Taking weight to date: none

Been reading some stuff over on SolvePFS, and a guy called MarioVitali who managed to negate his PFS side-effects with some supplements (he initially thought he was 'cured', but has since found his sides return if he stops taking the sups) seems to be focusing on copper as well.

Quote

Guys,

You recall that ceruloplasmin was chosen as being important by the algorithms i use.

Copper: 104 (70-140 g/dl)
Ceruloplasmin : 177 (200-600 mg/l)
Zinc: 66 (70-150 g/dl)

Note that i was taking Molybdenum AND Manganese which are copper inhibitors. I was waiting to see copper way lower TBH.

Please, please check your ceruloplasmin+copper if you can. Loose copper brings havoc to Liver, Brain and many other organs.

[Edited link out]
People over there seem to be getting the best benefits from TUDCA supplementation than anything else, but interesting that molybdenum is mentioned.

7 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

Playing the devils advocate- what's unnatural about supplementing copper??

you know how they regulate or set the upper safe limit for copper supplements here in the states?
Its the highest safe dosage a person can take before it starts to elevate liver enzymes.

On 7/2/2016 at 11:10 PM, tanedout said:

Been reading some stuff over on SolvePFS, and a guy called MarioVitali who managed to negate his PFS side-effects with some supplements (he initially thought he was 'cured', but has since found his sides return if he stops taking the sups) seems to be focusing on copper as well.

[Edited link out]

People over there seem to be getting the best benefits from TUDCA supplementation than anything else, but interesting that molybdenum is mentioned.

That guys free copper seems to be through the roof. I got him at 50 ug/dl reference 10-15 after doing a conversion (if its right). its weird how his 2 different copper test were both in different units of measure.
[Edited link out]post them this calculator if they are still looking into this.
(again only to look at free copper levels, not necessarily wilsons disease.)
any other guys get these test over there?

On 7/2/2016 at 11:42 PM, guitarman01 said:

That guys free copper seems to be through the roof. I got him at 50 ug/dl reference 10-15 after doing a conversion (if its right). its weird how his 2 different copper test were both in different units of measure.
[Edited link out] post them this calculator if they are still looking into this.
(again only to look at free copper levels, not necessarily wilsons disease.)
any other guys get these test over there?

He's only mentioned that recently, but one other person did go and get tested by said they had "serum zinc/copper and ceuroplasmin all normal", although they don't post figures.

This Mario guy is currently taking the following sups to stop his sexual sides and brain fog etc;

TUDCA, Selenium, Molybdenum and Dibencozide+FMN+Metafolin every two days. I found more genes that are associated with Selenium so its importance is much bigger than i originally thought (at least for my case).

he seems to keep trying to ween himself off stuff whenever I follow his threads, but TUDCA is one he is unable to drop without sides returning, but I thought it was interesting he's been taking stuff to reduce copper.

I just looked back at one of Bobby Digitals copper blood test and plugged it into the calculator
his copper plasma was 10.7 (range 11-22)
ceruloplasmin 0.14 (range 0.15- 0.60)
this gives him a free copper of 25.99 ug/dl (range 10-15)

8 minutes ago, guitarman01 said:

I just looked back at one of Bobby Digitals copper blood test and plugged it into the calculator
his copper plasma was 10.7 (range 11-22)
ceruloplasmin 0.14 (range 0.15- 0.60)
this gives him a free copper of 25.99 ug/dl (range 10-15)

Ok that's pretty high then!

12 minutes ago, tanedout said:

He's only mentioned that recently, but one other person did go and get tested by said they had "serum zinc/copper and ceuroplasmin all normal", although they don't post figures.

This Mario guy is currently taking the following sups to stop his sexual sides and brain fog etc;

TUDCA, Selenium, Molybdenum and Dibencozide+FMN+Metafolin every two days. I found more genes that are associated with Selenium so its importance is much bigger than i originally thought (at least for my case).

he seems to keep trying to ween himself off stuff whenever I follow his threads, but TUDCA is one he is unable to drop without sides returning, but I thought it was interesting he's been taking stuff to reduce copper.

if his free copper is actually that high, and its due to propecia. theres a lawsuit right there. he would prob need some serious treatment to bring that number down back to where its spose to be.

6 minutes ago, tanedout said:

Which is high I'm assuming? I'm not familiar with the reference range.

his free copper level. to put it into perspective doctors start to consider wilsons disease at levels greater then 25.
but there could be numerous other reasons why this number is high as well.
oh and Sexual dysfunction, anxiety, depression is common in wilsons disease. just as a example of what excess copper is capable of.
You look on a forum of people with Wilsons, they also complain about chronic inflammation problems.

Based on these results why would anyone here be advocatingto take more copper??

Can we all start to agree that if anything we have too much copper - certainly not a deficiency. We've been debating this for months now. Remember, with copper most people are toxic Not Deficient!!!

Time to work on getting rid of excess amounts....

So I was wondering if there have been any updates regarding Nathan Carr's theory about Accutane inducing telomere shortening. I've been researching this angle for a while and came across something I wanted to run by you guys.

Background for the Casual Lurkers and Newbies to Accutane Side Effects: I will briefly break down Carr's theory (using imprecise language for simplicity) for some context. Accutane metabolizes into a drug called ATRA (All trans retinoic acid) in the body, a drug that downregulates the telomerase enzyme in cells. Telomerase "protect" the telomeres of cells. What are telomeres? Telomeres determine how many times a cell can divide before it dies, or reaches the Hayflick Limit. Telomeres basically maintain the integrity of chromosomes in cells, but they naturally become shorter every time a cell divides. Basically, telomerase "slows" this process of shortening telomeres so that the cell can divide MORE times before dying.

Put simply, less of this of the telomerase enzyme essentially leads to increased telomere shortening and, therefore, increased cellular death. Contrary to popular belief, telomerase does exist in more than just cancer cells. They happen to be prevalent in stem cells, which exist in adults' skin, gut, brain, muscles, teeth, etc. No wonder Accutane's side effects are so diverse!

Over the years, evidence has only surfaced to SUPPORT the significance of ATRA's telomere shortening effects on both the "therapeutic" effects AND side effects of Accutane. HOWEVER, this telomere effect was never directly studied for Accutane SPECIFICALLY. (As I stated, it's the drug Accutane is converted into that induces telomere shortening.) Nevertheless, Accutane has been found to induce apoptosis on all of the following type of cells: brain (hippocampal), sebaceous, meibomian, bone, muscle. etc.

My Main Point: It's rare that I see people try to address Accutane's side effects from the perspective Carr's finding. To be fair, very few compounds have been found to have an effect an telomeres, but there are a few. Has anyone heard of Epitalon/Epithalon? Check out these studies:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15455129?dopt=Abstract

"Peptide-treated cells with elongated telomeres made 10 extra divisions (44 passages) in comparison with the control and continued dividing. Hence, Epithalon prolonged the vital cycle of normal human cells due to overcoming the Heyflick limit."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12937682?dopt=Abstract

"Addition of Epithalon peptide in telomerase-negative human fetal fibroblast culture induced expression of the catalytical subunit, enzymatic activity of telomerase, and telomere elongation, which can be due to reactivation of telomerase gene in somatic cells and indicates the possibility of prolonging life span of a cell population and of the whole organism."

Firstly, note how this research reaffirms the relevance of telomerase in SOMATIC cells. Also importantly, it begs the question: Could Epiphalon reverse the gene-altering effects of Accutane? Forgive my hyperbole, but perhaps it takes something profound to undo a poison of Accutane's caliber. Maybe generic supplements and foods aren't enough. I'm not getting my hopes up, but this study seems promising. At the very least, this peptide may support other recovery methods (dietary changes, flushing, etc.) by replenishing cells.

Here's the potential pitfall. Even if we are lacking telomerase in our "healthy" cells, it's no secret that telomerase is relevant to cancer cells. How could this compound know WHERE to upregulate telomerase and where NOT to? If it's any reassurance, Epitalon shows cancer-fighting effects. I will link a two articles I found on that topic, but there are more.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12209581?dopt=Abstract

Reduction of mammary tumors.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304383502000903?np=y

Reduction of bowel carcinogenesis.

My Final Thoughts: Overall, it SOUNDS like a solid peptide given some of our issues. Anecdotally, I have read about people experiences' on this compound, and a common comment people make is on how it impacts their skin quality. I have never tried this myself nor have I heard of an Accutane victim trying it. This peptide has happened to gain popularity in nootropic communities, which tend to attract HEALTHY people looking for potential ENHANCEMENT rather than healing effects. As an "unhealthy folk" who was already screwed over by a drug once, I'll admit I am apprehensive about trying Epiphalon. Further, I've read about hundreds of supplements in this thread alone, and I am often disappointed by my results. I am just wondering if anyone has tried Epitalon for themselves. If not, I'd be thrilled if intelligent people could comment on the articles I linked regarding its effect on telomeres. . . I had to throw this out there. I will probably take the plunge, unless I am way off-base somehow. Take this information with a grain of salt. I am not telling you to try anything.

On 6/29/2016 at 9:09 PM, TrueJustice said:

Thanks for info - I'm currently taking Swedish Bitters which prob does the same thing in aiding stomach.

Does anyone know which type of Specialist deals with "Auto Immune" diseases??

This might be my next line of investigating. It's been quite a week fitting in Colonoscopy and Gastropothy, finally getting those copper blood tests done tomorrow too, plus trying to hold down a full time job in a state of fatigue....

You know I wonder if you that are from Australia ever go to any of the seminars or follow food matters. I would love to travel over there, and where Jason Vale is from and do his juicing retreat. I feel so much better when I am on schedule. I have had a rough year personally so...you know.