Look at Tom87 post back on page 377. He is taking 5000 mg of taurine and is 80% recovered.

8 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

I'm really trying to do too much at once currently, still have my gut testing to be done this month so I will wait before supplementing with Vit D and Testosterone. Currently trying to get results with Tudca, Calcium D Glucarate, MSM and Chinese Bitters.

If there is anything in that theory from the video, I think coconut oil is pretty important to take alongside those things as it will bind to the toxins so they can be excreted, otherwise they're just re-absorbed by the body.

Bilirubin can indicate liver problems. Anyone here with elevated bilirubin?
Check out my bilirubin levels before and after accutane. They slightly increased which may indicate liver congestion.
[Edited link out]
Normal levels should hover around 0.5. Mine now are above 1.
After my first liver flush, they went back down slightly.
Haven't tested the levels since I've done 12 flushes.. I need to get that done.

Anyone else get their bilirubin levels checked? Is it elevated more than 0.5?

I've had my bilirubin levels checked and they are fine. My Ast and Alt are also fine but that doesn't mean we don't have issues with our liver in my opinion.

Also, i am taking coconut oil too.

too many supplements, i'm confused, my last test all values in the range...

the most important to beginning ? taurine, msm and copper ?

58 minutes ago, Ruvik said:

too many supplements, i'm confused, my last test all values in the range...

the most important to beginning ? taurine, msm and copper ?

They are all important.

TUDCA (which has taurine)
phosphatidylcholine, glycine, and taurine to thin out the bile (Glytamins suppositories are a great way to administer)
liver flushing every 2-4 weeks (Andreas Moritz or Hulda Clark method) to get out the LARGE blockages within the bile ducts
coffee enemas to stimulate the liver to dump bile via the portal vein which is fed from the splenic, mesenteric, and rectal veins
enemas, colemas, or colonics to prevent reabsorption of the drug once it's in the intestines
copper (unsure of dosage) to cure deficiency (if we are indeed deficient, supplementing will help MANY functions)
Swedish or Chinese bitters to stimulate bile production
ox bile (150-500 mg per day) to help digest fats while having impaired bile output
calcium-d-glucarate (to bind retinoic acid)
It may help to ingest retinol food sources like liver to replace the accutane.Some can get worse from ingesting vitamin A, though
Ingesting binders daily to mop up residues in the intestinal tract (bentonite clays, activated charcoal, citrus pectin, vegetable fiber, psyllium husks, ground flax, etc)
water fasting to get the drug out of the fat cells if that's where it resides. Ketogenic diet will do this, too

High bilirubin is used as a indicator in wilson's disease. Everyone that has supposed copper deficiency has elevated free copper me, tth, and Bobby digital and probably that last posting too if we get a Ceruloplasmin test to go along with that. and the other guy looked like his free copper was climbing at 14.97. Ceruloplasmin can even be elevated during chronic inflammation, which we have. you drop that number down one and that puts everyone in the 20s for the cell damaging free copper that can cause chronic inflammation. Free copper is supposed to be around 10 with a max of 15. You see how tightly regulated this is?

My latest copper tests from 1 week ago:
Ceruloplasmin 16 ref: 18-36 mg/dL (i think this is serum ceruloplasmin)
Copper 79 ref: 70-175 mcg/dL (i think this is serum copper)
Zinc 95 ref: 60-130 mcg/dL (i think this is plasma zinc)

Note: my copper was 81 mcg/dL in december 2013 (1 year after accutane)
This was before a diet change and since then I've eaten loads of copper rich foods like shellfish and liver and yet my copper level went down...

On 6/3/2016 at 5:56 AM, yetanotheraccutanevictim said:

My latest copper tests:
Ceruloplasmin 16 ref: 18-36 mg/dL (i think this is serum ceruloplasmin)
Copper 79 ref: 70-175 mcg/dL (i think this is serum copper)
Zinc 95 ref: 60-130 mcg/dL (i think this is plasma zinc)

That is so fucked. you plug that into that calculator?
[Edited link out]

your Serum free copper is 31. that is very high. like i said they look at Wilsons disease. again fucking life threatening Wilsons disease at 25 or greater. This could be everything. A cascade of events. Wilsons you acquire from birth. from the day you are born you start accumulating copper, normally its not noticed till in your 20s that people may start having symptoms. image accruing copper since accutane. This could be a one two punch accutane can cause immediate damage by depositing copper where it is not suppose to be( the same thing might happen with propecia victims, where they have the mental fog and limp dick for such a long time.) and then the body feels threatened either by a recognized toxicity where it starts storing copper in the liver to prevent further damage or it felt threatened by accutane so it decided it was going to start storing up copper to never be depleted again. or maybe it motified how the atp7 genes functioned after it was stimulated by so much retinol.
man you dont even know what i have been thinking about all this the wheels are spinning.
With enough time and effort this could be some real whistle blowing type shit.
or it could be nothing lol. I need a drink

scratch that its not nothing you need to talk to a doctor about that high serum free copper. that link i gave you. you can email them or find a specialist in your area.

guitarman ... nobody on this board has wilsons disease!!!!

if you really want to raise your ceruloplasmin and fix your "serum free copper"... GO BACK ON ACCUTANE!!!!!! it will raise your ceruloplasmin4x the normal level!!!!!!!!! voila... no more copper "toxicity"

ACCUTANE IS THE BEST DRUG ON THE PLANET TO RAISE CERULOPLASMIN to BIND UNBOUND COPPER!!!!!!!!!!! AND YOU TOOK MASSIVE DOSES OF IT FOR MONTHS!!!!

Abstract

Accutane will keep binding copper to the elevated ceruloplasmin until you run out. your body raises the ceruloplasmin as a defense mechanism to the insult accutane causes on the liver and body inflammation.

two others have had the same results.. one CONFIRMED a TRUE deficiency with a below normal 24hr urine test. that is IMPOSSIBLE WITH WILSONS.
24hr urine
Bobbydigital 10.7 (11-22)L .14(.15-.60)L .13(.24-.94umol/d)L

If you took this to any doctor...he would straight out tell you to take copper, if he had wilsons, his liver cells would be spilling out excess copper, and it would find a way into the urine for excretion.

LOW COPPER, CAUSES LOW CERULOPLASMIN

it is very simple to confirm this yetanotheraccutanevictim..... now take 2mg of copper for 4 days, and get your ceruloplasmin retested immediately on the 4th day..... if your ceruloplasmin rises, you are deficient, not toxic. PERIOD!

Accutane make you stubborn too? your going to make people more sick. and stop with all the extra exclamation points your creeping me out. you type like a mad scientist.
Bottom line is his Serum free copper level is high as hell.and you want him to take more copper? without questioning it? thats irresponsible. You dont even know what the hell copper is doing to you with all that other shit your taking.

At this point your copper supplement could give you a heart attack and I dont think you'd tell anybody.
and you know damn well im not talking about Wilsons per say. They just know the most about copper. I cant believe i even have to explain this again and again and again. jesus christ.

Il let people make up their own minds. but if i see you telling people to take something that might be dangerous to them, im sure as hell going to say something.

1 hour ago, tryingtohelp2014 said:

guitarman ... nobody on this board has wilsons disease!!!!

if you really want to raise your ceruloplasmin and fix your "serum free copper"... GO BACK ON ACCUTANE!!!!!!  it will raise your ceruloplasmin 4x the normal level!!!!!!!!!   voila... no more copper "toxicity"

ACCUTANE IS THE BEST DRUG ON THE PLANET TO RAISE CERULOPLASMIN to BIND UNBOUND COPPER!!!!!!!!!!!  AND YOU TOOK MASSIVE DOSES OF IT FOR MONTHS!!!!
 

Abstract

Ceruloplasmin, a copper-containing acute phase plasma protein, has been shown to be regulated by 13-cis retinoic acid in rats. Ceruloplasmin activity was significantly increased within 24 h and remained elevated for at least 72 h after a single injection of 13-cis retinoic acid. With daily injections of retinoic acid, the ceruloplasmin activity continued to increase for at least 4 d. After 4 d, the activity was four times control levels. In copper-deficient rats, the ceruloplasmin activity did not increase in response to retinoic acid unless copper was also given to these rats 8 h after retinoic acid. Actinomycin D blocked the retinoic acid-induced stimulation of ceruloplasmin activity in copper-sufficient rats, but in copper-deficient rats only about half of the increase was blocked when the rats were given copper or copper and retinoic acid. By use of pulse-labeling techniques, ceruloplasmin synthesis was shown to increase 1.5-fold after retinoic acid and this increase was blocked by actinomycin D. When vitamin A-deficient rats were repleted with 13-cis retinoic acid for 3 or 5 d, both the ceruloplasmin activity and synthesis were significantly stimulated when compared to the nonrepleted, deficient rats. Therefore, the dietary components, copper and vitamin A, play an important role in the regulation of plasma ceruloplasmin levels.

Accutane will keep binding copper to the elevated ceruloplasmin until you run out.   your body raises the ceruloplasmin as a defense mechanism to the insult accutane causes on the liver and body inflammation.

two others have had the same results.. one CONFIRMED a TRUE deficiency with a below normal 24hr urine test.   that is IMPOSSIBLE WITH WILSONS.
                                                                                                                                                                24hr urine      
Bobbydigital                 10.7 (11-22) L                                                           .14(.15-.60) L            .13(.24-.94umol/d)  L

If you took this to any doctor...he would straight out tell you to take copper, if he had wilsons, his liver cells would be spilling out excess copper, and it would find a way into the urine for excretion.

LOW COPPER, CAUSES LOW CERULOPLASMIN

it is very simple to confirm this yetanotheraccutanevictim..... now take 2mg of copper for 4 days, and get your ceruloplasmin retested immediately on the 4th day.....   if your ceruloplasmin rises, you are deficient, not toxic.  PERIOD!

I don't mind supplementing with Vit B or D or C or E, whatever -those those supplements you'll just piss out if you're not deficient no problem, I do have a problem though supplementing with Copper because if it turns out to be harmful than that's a mistake at this stage I'm not willing to make!!

As with any supplement what's the game plan - at what stage are you going to stop supplementing copper?? And does that mean you'll just go back to feeling how you did before?

I can't help but think that multible liver flushes are the key to cleaning things up!?

My tests indicate both High Copper and High Zinc, I'm confused cause I thought  zinc would offset copper levels, something is obviously wrong with how my liver is processing stuff

@yetanotheraccutanevictim,

Thanks so much for all of the research with synopsis. I will sift through this and print out these studies for my doctor. I think this will be very helpful for them as I can't always convey scientifically what I would like/don't understand everything fully.

Steph

More information on taurine for removing Retinoic Acid. 
 

9 minutes ago, Chris15 said:

More information on taurine for removing Retinoic Acid. 
 

all trans retinoic acid being the key......

" The administration of therapeutic doses of Roaccutane„ (13-cis retinoic acid) to humans (e. g. for the treatment of severe acne) increases not only the concentration of 13-cis retinoic acid, but also the concentration of all+trans retinoic acid, partly as a non-enzymatic process (10). 13-cis Retinoic acid does not bind to retinoic acid receptors and is probably inactive (9), while all-trans retinoic acid is the biologically active retinoid that binds to the retinoid receptors. As the half-life of all-trans retinoic acid is about 1/20 of that of 13-cis retinoid acid (11, 12), the relative concentration of all-trans retinoic acid in the tissues may be even higher than in serum. All-trans retinoic acid has been shown to modify the expression of a number of genes in vitro (1”5). To de- ! ) Supported by grants from the Swedish Medical Research Council (Nos. 03364 and 04966), the P¤hlsson Foundation, the Gyllenstierna Foundation, the Lunds Sjukvardsdistrikt Fonder and the Medical Faculty, University of Lund. termine whether these actions of vitamin A/all-trans retinoic acid are also demonstrable in vivo, we have measured the concentration of a number of serum components which are related to these genes.

The concentration of all-trans retinoic acid in serum during Roaccutane„ treatment can be estimated at 10” 20 nmol/1, which is about 2-^4 times the normal level. The half-life of all-trans retinoic acid in serum (11) is considerably shorter than that of 13-cis retinoic acid (12) (< 1 h, compared to < 17 h). Thus, the relative increase in all-trans retinoic acid in the tissues may be even greater than 2”4 fold

s. However, it is also possible that the elevation of the concentration of all-trans retinoic acid, the active retinoid, in serum to only 2-4 times the normal level, was too small, and that the concentrations of all-trans retinoic acid in the relevant tissues (e. g. the liver) was insufficient to increase retinoic acid receptor occupancy, so that transcription of the genes in question was unaffected. Possibly, the all-trans retinoic acid is sequestered in the tissues by protein binding (e. g. to cellular retinoic acid binding proteins, CRABPs, which are actually induced by all-trans retinoic acid (28)) and is therefore unavailable to the receptors. Finally, it cannot be excluded that 14-hydroxy-retro retinol (30) rather than all-trans retinoic acid is responsible for many of the effects of vitamin A reported
http://edoc.hu-berlin.de/oa/degruyter/cclm.1996.34.1.3.pdf
 

Regarding the above posts about Wilson's disease and copper levels, etc..

I tend to agree with Tryingtohelp2014. I think we need extra copper. We definitely have something going on with it.
I think Bobby.Digital's 24 hour urine copper test reveals the truth (we are deficient).

It's HIGHLY unlikely that we all have Wilson's disease and we're building up copper.
Wilson's diseaseaffects between 1 in 30,000 and 1 in 100,000 individuals.

However, I agree with guitarman01 in that supplementing with copper MIGHT do harm as there are LOADS of mechanisms that we do not know about. Just start off slow with it and write down any symptoms. This is regarding COPPER SUPPLEMENTS. Not because it's synthetic or anything but because it's isolated.

Post from Guitarman01:
" After awhile higher dose copper caused by body hair on my arms to just fall out. I mean I could lightly pull on it and it just come out. Just like after accutane for me."

Copper supplements may cause constipation or it may mobilize accutane which would cause accutane symptoms all over again, which may have happened to you, guitarman01. It may not be the copper causing your problems directly.

With FOOD, it's an ENTIRELY different story. There is no danger in consuming copper from foods as nature balances it out with other compounds that prevents toxicity. This is the ideal way to replete copper levels.

The food highest in copperseems to be liver. BUT, it also has the most vitamin A of any food, which might make some of us worse. For me personally, it cured my night blindness. Note that I am not in a good state of health yet. I don't think liver made me worse, though.
The next best option is shellfish like oysters or mussels. They are MUCH lower in vitamin A, making them less risky.

Here is an interesting testimonial from koikoi123 aka lamme. regarding copper from food helping him:

4 minutes ago, yetanotheraccutanevictim said:

Post from Guitarman01:
" After awhile higher dose copper caused by body hair on my arms to just fall out. I mean I could lightly pull on it and it just come out. Just like after accutane for me."

this could also support the idea that copper really can displace what is in the liver... and by taking high doses of copper alone(he was taking 8mgs and nothing else) youre going to put something back into the bloodstream(i.e. REAL detox) now you need something to grab it (taurine)

things that raise ceruloplasmin: copper,retinol, "Real vitamin C" (not ascorbic acid), boron

the dangers of copper deficiency are real. aneurysms, high cholesterol , heart disease. so taking large amounts of taurine and TUDCA without replenshing, could be just as dangerous.

Get tested.... get tested again

Tryingtohelp2014:
Didn't you find that copper and retinol in the liver are inversely related or something?

Here's one of your old posts from a few months ago that I think you'll enjoy reading:
[Edited link out]

Here is just a piece of the post:
" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16973122
"Exposure to Cu2+ or Zn2+ elicited the subcellular redistribution of an overexpressed FoxO1a-EGFP fusion protein from nucleus to cytoplasm,"
In summary, the PI3K/Akt pathway is activated in human hepatoma cells exposed to Cu2+ or Zn2+, resulting in the phosphorylation and subcellular relocalisation of transcription factor FoxO1a.Furthermore, copper is demonstrated to exert an insulin-mimetic effect also independently of the PI3K/Akt/FoxO pathway.

copper and zinc ions kick the upregulated FOX01 out of the nucleus , and back into the cytoplasm?

So accutane upregulates RAR-b--->which upregulates ATP7A--->which depletes intracellular & hepatic copper---> increasing retinol liver levels---> at the same time depleting serum retinol levels--->keeping FOX01 upregulated in the nucleus.

so, lets switch the genes off by introducing Cu2+ and kick the FOX0 out....."

Note that oysters are incredibly high in zinc and copper.
The zinc may be a problem if we're trying to absorb the maximum amount of copper. Supplements may need to come into play if that's the case.
I'm going to be ordering a huge pack of oysters soon here.
Each 3 oz can contains about 5 mg of copper I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.

THIS IS THE COPPER SUPPLEMENT I RECOMMEND IF GOING THAT ROUTE:
Seeking Health Biglycinate copper
It's VERY affordable.
Other recommended brands, thorne research or pure encapsulations glycinate.

Research found by Chris15:
http://grantome.com/grant/NIH/R01-DK092100-05
Liver is the main organ that stores RA. Liver flushes are great for getting this out
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25014134
Cholestasis and accutane and UDCA
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21274875/

For those with night blindness, again, eating liver cured this for me.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2991380/
Vitamin A and its derivatives (retinoids) exert a wide range of effects on embryonic development, cell growth, differentiation, and apoptosis. Vitamin A has been used as a treatment for thousands of years. The Egyptian papyruses Kahun 1 (ca. 1825 B.C.) and Ebers (ca. 1500 B.C.) described how the liver was used to cure eye diseases such as night blindness. Greek scholar Hippocrates (460-327 B.C.) described in the second book of Prognostics a method for curing night blindness: raw beef liver, as large as possible, soaked in honey, to be taken once or twice by mouth. Chinese medicine used pigs liver as a remedy for night blindness, as described by Sun-szu-mo (7th century A.D.) in his 1000 Golden Remedies. Given that the liver is where the body stores excess vitamin A, the liver represents the best source of vitamin A available for treatment in the pre-pharmaceutical world.

--
EDIT
Accutane messed up bile acid metbolism:
RA also represses several critical genes involved in bile acid metabolism (Cyp7a1, Cyp8b1, Mdr2, Bsep, Baat and Ntcp) via upregulation of SHP. Collectively our data suggest that SHP plays a major role in RA-induced potential changes in pathophysiology of metabolic disorders in the liver.

EDIT2:
For those taking TUDCA and taurine, get on a good colon cleanser like Dr. Schulze's intestinal formula #2 asap. It'll help bind it up in your intestines and carry it out of the body. It's probably the best cleanser that exists on the market. I also like oxypowder.

Colon cleanse curing accutane victim testimonial:
Read this:
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/266765-accutane-and-hair-loss-a-solution-that-worked-for-me/

Read this:

http://www.curezone.org/forums/am.asp?i=736993

EDIT
Also, get on St. John's Wort asap. I use Gaia herbs brand.
Daily dosage should not exceed 2-4 g
Combine it with the taurine for a massive detox effect:
[Edited link out]

Research I found regarding SJWs effect on inducing liver detox enzymes for getting rid of accutane

[Edited link out]
EDIT
For all of the doctors who say the drug can't possibly still be in the body as the half-life is merely hours...:
Definition of half-life of a drug:
https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/nmp/sonet/rlos/bioproc/halflife/
"We usually consider thehalf lifeof adrugin relation to the amount of thedrugin plasma. Adrug'splasmahalf-lifedepends on how quickly thedrugis eliminated from the plasma."

Now, look at this passage from an in vivo study on accutane:
http://edoc.hu-berlin.de/oa/degruyter/cclm.1996.34.1.3.pdf
As the half-life of all-trans retinoic acid is about 1/20 of that of 13-cis retinoid acid (11, 12), the relative concentration of all-trans retinoic acid in the tissues may be even higher than in serum. All-trans retinoic acid has been shown to modify the expression of a number of genes in vitro (15).

It's saying that when the half-life is shorter, the faster it gets deposited in the tissues.
and all-trans retinoic acid (ATRA) is what accutane primarily converts to in the body. We are primarily toxic with ATRA rather than 13CRA.

For those that still do not believe in the liver and gallbladder flush, I just added a new video to my liver flush proof link:
http://bit.ly/liverflushtruth

check it out:
liver stones in the liver
#t=2m46s

here are reference copper levels for human beings. per medscape. http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/2087780-overview

Copper levels can be evaluated to help diagnose several disease processes. These conditions may be monitored by looking at the total copper, the free serum copper, 24-hour urine copper, and liver biopsy copper concentrations. Serum ceruloplasmin is also a valuable test and can be used to determine the free serum copper.

Copper reference ranges are as follows:

• Free serum copper: 1.6-2.4 mol/L or 10-15g/dL^[1]
• Total copper: 10-22 mol/L or 63.7-140.12 g/dL^[2]
• Serum ceruloplasmin: 2.83-5.50 mol/L or 18-35 g/dL^[1]
• 24-hour urine copper 0.3-0.8 mol or 20-50 g^[1]
• Liver copper 0.3-0.8 mol/g of tissue or 20-50 g/g of tissue

  Yetanotheraccutanevictim scored a 31 ug/dl in free serum copper. range is 10-15.
  This is excess copper. this isnt a lack of copper in the body. you think your going to lower this number by taking more copper?

  forget abouttheoriesand looking into things like if accutane is still stored in the liver after 15+ years.
  Copper is what stuck around and never left. well shit i guess thats a theory. But thats what this is showing me.

  I dont know how many different ways to slice this. Ive laid all this on a platter. Vitamin A was just the transport for copper. copper could be what zapped the oil glands in the first place and caused numerous damage throughout the body. and here is a crazy idea. it could becopper that is competing with everything. from vitamin a to d to zinc.

  my number one concern would be to lower my free copper to reference range and then see how you feel. and you sure as hell dont do that by taking more copper.

On 2 June 2016 at 6:50 PM, TrueJustice said:

Recent blood test results;

HEAVY METALS
Serum Copper 17 ( 12 - 22 ) considered HIGH by my doctor
Serum Zinc 17 ( 10 - 18 ) considered also to be high by doctor

Vit D 60 ( 50 - 140 ) bit too low for my doctors liking - wants me to supplement
Testosterone 8.2 ( 9.5 - 28.0 ) too low - doctor wants me to supplement

I'm really trying to do too much at once currently, still have my gut testing to be done this month so I will wait before supplementing with Vit D and Testosterone. Currently trying to get results with Tudca, Calcium D Glucarate, MSM and Chinese Bitters.

Second test now in over 10 years where COPPER IS HIGH, not off the charts but none the less HIGH!!!!

Can someone preferably in Australia please tell me the type of Copper test I need to do that will show up to be DEFICIENT???

Would I be better getting a urine test perhaps? Based on serum copper levels from this weeks results how can I possibly think it's a good idea to supplement copper or eat foods like oysters rich in copper - that would be insane!

Until I can find a copper test that shows me to be deficient I'm stuffed!

Please can someone point me in the right direction!?

2 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:

Can someone preferably in Australia please tell me the type of Copper test I need to do that will show up to be DEFICIENT???

Would I be better getting a urine test perhaps? Based on serum copper levels from this weeks results how can I possibly think it's a good idea to supplement copper or eat foods like oysters rich in copper - that would be insane!

Until I can find a copper test that shows me to be deficient I'm stuffed!

Please can someone point me in the right direction!?

ceruloplasmin is one test
serum copper is the other
you should get both to join the party.

21 minutes ago, guitarman01 said:

ceruloplasmin is one test
serum copper is the other
you should get both to join the party.

Serum copper if I'm not mistaken is the one I had done - shows up that it's at 17.

Would the cerulplasmin more likely show me up to be deficient?? And is it a blood or urine test?

Is anyone else at or around 17 with their serum copper?

thank you

53 minutes ago, TrueJustice said:

Serum copper if I'm not mistaken is the one I had done - shows up that it's at 17.

Would the cerulplasmin more likely show me up to be deficient?? And is it a blood or urine test?

Is anyone else at or around 17 with their serum copper?

thank you

Go to any bulk billing gp and ask for an RBC copper test to see what percentage of copper you have in your cells. It gets sent to royal Prince Albert if you're in Sydney.