1 hour ago, guitarman01 said:

here are reference copper levels for human beings. per medscape.  http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/2087780-overview
 

Copper levels can be evaluated to help diagnose several disease processes. These conditions may be monitored by looking at the total copper, the free serum copper, 24-hour urine copper, and liver biopsy copper concentrations. Serum ceruloplasmin is also a valuable test and can be used to determine the free serum copper.

Copper reference ranges are as follows:

• Free serum copper: 1.6-2.4 ¼mol/L or 10-15¼g/dL ^[1]   
• Total copper: 10-22 ¼mol/L or 63.7-140.12 ¼g/dL ^[2]
• Serum ceruloplasmin: 2.83-5.50 ¼mol/L or 18-35 ¼g/dL ^[1]
• 24-hour urine copper 0.3-0.8 ¼mol or 20-50 ¼g ^[1]
• Liver copper 0.3-0.8 ¼mol/g of tissue or 20-50 ¼g/g of tissue

  Yetanotheraccutanevictim scored a 31 ug/dl in free serum copper. range is 10-15.
  This is excess copper. this isnt a lack of copper in the body. you think your going to lower this number by taking more copper? 

  forget about theories and looking into things like if accutane is still stored in the liver after 15+ years. 
  Copper is what stuck around and never left. well shit i guess thats a theory. But thats what this is showing me.

  I dont know how many different ways to slice this. Ive laid all this on a platter.  Vitamin A was just the transport for copper. copper could be what zapped the oil glands in the first place and caused numerous damage throughout the body. and here is a crazy idea. it could be copper that is competing with everything. from vitamin a to d to zinc.

  my number one concern would be to lower my free copper to reference range and then see how you feel. and you sure as hell dont do that by taking more copper.

   

 

Yep - I'm with you, why would you add more copper to a body that clearly is overloaded with it!? I'm all for cleaning up the liver via flushes etc, who doesn't want a clean liver? There's no evidence though that I know of suggesting that the flushes will correct a copper imbalance?

The only product that I know that reduces Copper levels is MOLY ZINC!!! This will prob get ignored though as my posts aren't scientific enough.

In any case, I'm going to get some of the other copper tests done for my own peace of mind.

6 minutes ago, Iamme. said:

Go to any bulk billing gp and ask for an RBC copper test to see what percentage of copper you have in your cells. It gets sent to royal Prince Albert if you're in Sydney.

 

Much appreciated - I will get this test done next!!

Thanks so much for replying

serum copper does not delineate between oxidized copper and bio-available reduced copper.

21 minutes ago, yetanotheraccutanevictim said:

serum copper does not delineate between oxidized copper and bio-available reduced copper.

If we are copper toxic and that is causing our issues, where did this copper come from? Are all the accutane sufferers on this thread just sick because we all happened to come into contact with copper via piping or well water or something? Unlikely.

I'm open to ideas though. I don't have the answers.
--
Lamme,

Did you discontinue mineral balancing? And I remember you said mussels helped you a lot. Still taking in copper?

Again, I'm not as scientific as others on this thread but the copper thing isn't that we overloaded on it - we didn't. My theory would be that our bodies were thrown out of balance with retinoic acid - this is what has screwed up our copper balance - body still doesn't know what to do with Vit A or something!?

I'm not just high in Serum Copper I'm also low in Vit D and yet I work outdoors in Australia!?

Something is clearly going on with the relationship between Fat Soluable Vitamins ( A,D,E ) and Copper levels.

I feel like we are moving closer to solutions on this thread and if it means debating on whether we have Copper toxicity or a deficiency this is for the common good of hopefully finding a solution to all our problems!!

In the meantime I'm all for EVERYONE getting tested on their Copper levels - both serum and ceruloplasmin.

4 hours ago, yetanotheraccutanevictim said:

--
Lamme,

Did you discontinue mineral balancing? And I remember you said mussels helped you a lot. Still taking in copper?

Im still going with it yeah. Nearly on 4 monthsnow. I was wrong about the mussels, I thought they contained copper at some point, but looking online, they contain high amounts of b12. Im pretty sure this boosted my cognitive capabilities, not too sure.

Biggest benefit of NB so far has been better focus, no more racing mind, besides that, not much. Something is happening though. I had pretty bad insomnia after starting, mood swings and headaches often. Obviously hard to attribute them together but other than brain fog I'm pretty stable day in day out. I'm waiting on results of a follow up test now so will be interesting to see the results.

6 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

Can someone preferably in Australia please tell me the type of Copper test I need to do that will show up to be DEFICIENT???

Would I be better getting a urine test perhaps? Based on serum copper levels from this weeks results how can I possibly think it's a good idea to supplement copper or eat foods like oysters rich in copper - that would be insane!

Until I can find a copper test that shows me to be deficient I'm stuffed!

Please can someone point me in the right direction!?

I am from the U.S. and I am a little confused....Your Copper and Zinc are both 17 which would be in the normal range if I am reading correct, yet I agree your Vit D and Testosterone are low... Are your supplementing or treating for those that actually are low?
I personally don't supplement with certain mineralsand are in normal ranges for copper and zinc, but I developed autoimmune thyroid (graves) while on Accutane. I have to be careful and cater to certain supplements for my needs.

I do know that tryingtohelp posted about field control study and 12yrs ago a few suffers tried and had success with this.

I really wish I could pull the old archives from the ragrforum on copper and zinc. I do agree if your deficient then it will help, but overdosing might be an issue and maybe I missed a post, but just like supplementing with Vit A I would be careful if your in range or high.

4 hours ago, Iamme. said:

Im still going with it yeah. Nearly on 4 monthsnow. I was wrong about the mussels, I thought they contained copper at some point, but looking online, they contain high amounts of b12. Im pretty sure this boosted my cognitive capabilities, not too sure.

Biggest benefit of NB so far has been better focus, no more racing mind, besides that, not much. Something is happening though. I had pretty bad insomnia after starting, mood swings and headaches often. Obviously hard to attribute them together but other than brain fog I'm pretty stable day in day out. I'm waiting on results of a follow up test now so will be interesting to see the results.

Please explain what's involved with Mineral Balancing??

it sounds interesting.....

Hey lamme and yetanotheraccutanevictim -

Interesting that you saw positive effects from mussels. Look at the amount of taurine in mussels. 

Chris15,
Wow, nice find! Taurine content was WAY higher than oysters, which I was planning on eating. I think we should all experiment with eating a bunch of shellfish. Even if we don't know EXACTLY what it is in it that's helping us, does it really matter? Shellfish are some of most nutrient-dense foods on the planet. You can't go wrong. And they are not full of heavy metals like some people hypothesize.

Thanks. Looks like Joseph Buchignani ate a lot of rice, shrimp and fish. 

Mentioned recently about how I'd been waking up in the middle of the night, heart pounding, mind racing, feeling in a real panic, pretty much feeling like I was about to have a heart attack, and I now think this is actually down to some sort of die-off (candida, parasites etc). I've been eating sauerkraut and kefir daily for about 6-8 weeks now, taking Now Candida support, coconut oil daily. The feeling is pretty horrendous when I wake up, and basically pretty much exactly like this person describes on this thread I've just found from someone doing a parasite cleanse;

Quote

It seems to me that THIS has been what is really going on these past few nights... hardcore die offs from parasites...

I felt horrible again tonight and I woke up in a panic, heart pounding, etc.. feeling sick and agitated and scared.

Well, took a warm water enema and passed a bunch of liver flukes.. there is a common theme here. Every time I can remember having these reactions, what I pass constitutes largely parasites... cancer fuzzy things on stones, tapeworm, flukes... how can I go about this in a smart manner? I'm sick of waking up at 1-2 am in a panic feeling like I'm going to die.

Should I just cut out the ACV bomb for now? What else could I do? I am out of the woods I believe and have been scaling it back... BUT, the parasite die of is freaking me out.

http://www.curezone.org/forums/am.asp?i=1779607

If this is what's causing it then I think the die-off from the candida/parasites is releasing toxins like ammonia, and this is causing a sudden spike innorepinephrine, which would match my symptoms exactly.

Quote

Norepinephrine (NE) is the brain chemical associated with panic, fear and other heightened states of emotion with corresponding increase in blood pressure, heart rate and brain activity.

http://www.ehow.com/how_5245319_balance-elevated-norepinephrine-levels-naturally.html

What seems to have really triggered this is when I took some liquid wormwood (only the once, but this is in addition to the stuff mentioned above). It's after that all the waking up and stuff started, but it got especially bad this week and I've been off work all week feeling horrific with really bad anxiety (which I don't usually get, but this was just horrendous), hopefully it's starting to calm down now.

I've also noticed what look like parasites in the loo, including some bits that look like lettuce, fairly big, as well as smaller jelly-like bits that basically match those like you'd see if you googled for it.

Still feeling pretty terrible, but I've found molybdenum seemed to help a bit (this apparently absorbs toxins, and interestingly also copper..)

http://blog.probacto.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-herxheimer-candida-die-off/

I've also got some Yucca root, but have yet to try this - apparently this absorbs ammonia.

Jesus, just reading the full thread that I posted a link to above regarding the die-off, and turns out that guy whose experienced the horrendous die-off effects like me has previously used accutane?!!

...just don't forget that you were saying that it was 'just like' the Accutane in a lot of ways (some of which I'm not sure were the same as what you're experiencing now).

'Don't wanna dismiss 'drug residue' if it's still in play.

Of course, YOU know what you experienced and are experiencing far more than me.

I'm glad to see it's making sense (it's SO much easier when it makes sense!)

2 hours ago, tanedout said:

Mentioned recently about how I'd been waking up in the middle of the night, heart pounding, mind racing, feeling in a real panic, pretty much feeling like I was about to have a heart attack, and I now think this is actually down to some sort of die-off (candida, parasites etc). I've been eating sauerkraut and kefir daily for about 6-8 weeks now, taking Now Candida support, coconut oil daily. The feeling is pretty horrendous when I wake up, and basically pretty much exactly like this person describes on this thread I've just found from someone doing a parasite cleanse;

http://www.curezone.org/forums/am.asp?i=1779607

If this is what's causing it then I think the die-off from the candida/parasites is releasing toxins like ammonia, and this is causing a sudden spike innorepinephrine, which would match my symptoms exactly.

http://www.ehow.com/how_5245319_balance-elevated-norepinephrine-levels-naturally.html

What seems to have really triggered this is when I took some liquid wormwood (only the once, but this is in addition to the stuff mentioned above). It's after that all the waking up and stuff started, but it got especially bad this week and I've been off work all week feeling horrific with really bad anxiety (which I don't usually get, but this was just horrendous), hopefully it's starting to calm down now.

I've also noticed what look like parasites in the loo, including some bits that look like lettuce, fairly big, as well as smaller jelly-like bits that basically match those like you'd see if you googled for it.

Still feeling pretty terrible, but I've found molybdenum seemed to help a bit (this apparently absorbs toxins, and interestingly also copper..)

http://blog.probacto.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-herxheimer-candida-die-off/

I've also got some Yucca root, but have yet to try this - apparently this absorbs ammonia.

Once you've treated the parasite issue do you plan to look at the root causes of problems like copper imbalance etc??

A lot of people believe the parasite issue is just a symptom of a deeper issue - just thought I'd point that out so we don't get side tracked again thinking ridding parasites is the be all and end all......I'm sure it is important though!!

16 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

Please explain what's involved with Mineral Balancing??

it sounds interesting.....

Hair mineral analysis. Which has been thrown around a few times here. Although it seems oppositional to the general copper deficiency theory here, my test has consecutively shown a copper toxicity, as have a few others who post on this thread.

Anyway, the idea is that taking a bunch of supplements will return the body to its healthiest state. They are broad, yet seem to cover popular ideas discussed here. Bile aids, a multi vitamin, tmg for methylation, and one or two more. I've added molybdenum for to reduce copper quicker. Also astaxanthin for its antioxidant principles.

I feel it must work through the idea of epigenetics.

anyway. I've tried a lot now and it's at least comforting to know everyday I'm potentially working towards better health.

interested in Tudca now. Seems to be gaining to positive momentum

Read this about taurine and accutane.

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US4545977.pdf

24 minutes ago, Iamme. said:

Hair mineral analysis. Which has been thrown around a few times here. Although it seems oppositional to the general copper deficiency theory here, my test has consecutively shown a copper toxicity, as have a few others who post on this thread.

Anyway, the idea is that taking a bunch of supplements will return the body to its healthiest state. They are broad, yet seem to cover popular ideas discussed here. Bile aids, a multi vitamin, tmg for methylation, and one or two more. I've added molybdenum for to reduce copper quicker. Also astaxanthin for its antioxidant principles.

I feel it must work through the idea of epigenetics.

anyway. I've tried a lot now and it's at least comforting to know everyday I'm potentially working towards better health.

interested in Tudca now. Seems to be gaining to positive momentum

Thanks for response. I got a hair mineral analysis done too showing HIGH Copper, that's why I keep banging on about Copper and why I'm cautious about supplementing it. The Molybdenum you mention is Moly Zinc just another name for it and yes it will decrease copper - that is what it is designed to do. How does the TMG work for you?? Does it give you more mental clarity or more energy? I'm thinking of using it!

9 hours ago, TrueJustice said:

Once you've treated the parasite issue do you plan to look at the root causes of problems like copper imbalance etc??

A lot of people believe the parasite issue is just a symptom of a deeper issue - just thought I'd point that out so we don't get side tracked again thinking ridding parasites is the be all and end all......I'm sure it is important though!!

I can see the root cause being something related to bile flow, as this could explain many of the issues people experience. Restricted bile flow would result in an overgrowth of bad bacteria, candida etc in the gut as the pH rises, which I think is pretty much a certainty that everyone has (my gastrointestinal tests confirmed this, and this appears to be the case with PFS suffers too). Then you're looking at issues with not being able to properly absorb fat soluble vitamins (A, D, E & K) which could impact lots of things including methylation. The candida overgrowth/parasites that have taken hold when the gut was in a bad way are releasing toxins like ammonia and this is overworking the kidneys and liver and further adding to the issues.

I've cycled TUDCA a couple of times before, and I've been taking taurine daily for 6+ months, so I'll be looking to get onto the TUDCA again at some point. Also may consider taking molybdenum for a month.

9 hours ago, Iamme. said:

Hair mineral analysis. Which has been thrown around a few times here. Although it seems oppositional to the general copper deficiency theory here, my test has consecutively shown a copper toxicity, as have a few others who post on this thread.

 

 

1

The attached lab is from you, correct? That's not copper toxicity.
And if you're talking about copper toxicity based on hair analyses, that's not an accurate representation of copper needs. Inorganic oxidized copper could be skewing the results.

And your ceruloplasmin levels were: 19 (reference range 15-30).

Would love to hear which test results you're talking about that seem to point towards copper toxicity.

2 hours ago, yetanotheraccutanevictim said:

The attached lab is from you, correct? That's not copper toxicity.
And if you're talking about copper toxicity based on hair analyses, that's not an accurate representation of copper needs. Inorganic oxidized copper could be skewing the results.

And your ceruloplasmin levels were: 19 (reference range 15-30).

Would love to hear which test results you're talking about that seem to point towards copper toxicity.

Yes as mentioned it was the hair mineral analysis. Jotted that down at the start. And yes as noted I understand the conflicting results. Ive had multiple HMA tests over the last 3.5, from 2 practitioners, using different labs, and each time a copper toxicity was seen. How can a supposed deficiency then result in these figures? 

Regardless, NB, as opposed to a Andy Cutlers protocol to detoxify copper, aims more to replenish the body and aid it in its function. This is the reason zinc isn't added, I added molybdenum as a little experiment. In fact, one supplement they suggest and I take, contains small amounts of copper.

4 hours ago, yetanotheraccutanevictim said:

The attached lab is from you, correct? That's not copper toxicity.
And if you're talking about copper toxicity based on hair analyses, that's not an accurate representation of copper needs. Inorganic oxidized copper could be skewing the results.

And your ceruloplasmin levels were: 19 (reference range 15-30).

Would love to hear which test results you're talking about that seem to point towards copper toxicity.

he needs a ceruloplasmin test combined with a serum copper test to calculate circulating free unbound copper. not a rbc test. Serum does not contain red or white blood cells.

people look what i found, specially for those who suffered from hair loss

"Hello guys I've been searching for almost 2 yrs on the subject, and searched almost all the studies, and here's how accutane is definitly accelerating our genetic baldness with 4 factors:

An exogenous apport of retinoic acid in the metabolism (like we had for treating acne) make long term changes in the level of all trans retinoic acid (atRA) produced in each of our cells ( sebaceous glands cells, IF cells and dermal papilla cells). Aldh1a3 is the gene who is responsible of transforming the enzymes into atRA, his activity/expression determine the level of atRA in dermal papilla cells. Aldh1a1 determine the level of atRA in SB cells and aldh1a2 in bulge region cells.
Our treatment with high isotretinoin administration make a long term change on those genes epressions, so that those genes are now more active and so the level of atRA in each of our follicle cells are constantly higher than it should.

Now let's look what high atRA level in each of our cells is doing, and how it can accelerate our baldness:


1)atRA upregulate the rate transformation of DHT into 5alpha-DHT !

"Administration of all-trans-retinoic acid to male rats increased the rate of 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (5alpha-DHT) formation from testosterone in microsomal fractions in vitro."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10423178

2)The more atRA, the less WNT activity !RA signaling and WNT pathway work together, they regulate each other for many things .

"We identified a signaling cascade through which retinoic acid switches off Wnt"
"these results further indicate that RA inhibits WNT signaling"
"Our 3 preliminary studies indicate that RA does indeed interact with WNT signaling in the hair"
""Follicular localization sites (including hair follicle stem cells) of several WNT signaling molecules are similar to those of synthesis enzymes of retinoic acid (RA), a vitamin A metabolite."
"All trans-Retinoic Acid Mediates Wnt/-catenin Signaling through MED28 in Human Colon Cancer Cells"
"All-Trans Retinoic Acid-Induced Deficiency of the Wnt/-Catenin Pathway Enhances Hepatic Carcinoma Stem Cell Differentiation"

Well I stop here (you can write the sentences in Google to find each study), they are hundreds of other studies explaining the interaction between RA activity and WNT and so in each of our follicle cells (more importantly DP cells), there's too high atRA level, so automatically less activation of WNT.


3)the more atRA, the less PPAR protection (alteration of vitaminA metabolism lead to hair loss)

PPARy deletion is critical in cicatricial alopecias ( FFA, PCA, CCCA, LPP,..)
http://dermatologytimes.modernmedici...-inv?page=full
http://www.jidonline.org/article/S00...340-2/abstract

And now they showed how altered retinoid metabolism (what we did with accutane) is involved in alopecias like CCCA and CA:

-At the 2015 North American Hair Research Society Scientific Meeting, there this presentation : "Alterations of vitamin A metabolism and signaling in central, centrifugal, cicatricial alopecia patients"

-or this study : "Retinoid metabolism is altered in human and mouse cicatricial alopecia"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3546159/

-In this other recent study they explain how altered metabolism VItaminA regulation is connected to CCCAlopecia, andhow excess of RA synthesis silenced the WNT signaling https://etd.ohiolink.edu/ap/10?0::NO...D_SUBID:103145

-"Retinoic acid (RA) is essential during embryogenesis and for tissue homeostasis,whereas excess RA is well known as a teratogen. In humans, excess RA is associated with hair loss.
"Our results show that normalization of RA levels is associated with reinitiation of hf development."
http://www.jbc.org/content/287/47/39304.full

CCCA hair loss is diffuse long term hair loss beginning generally on vertex , BUT that work together in synergy with genetic baldness so the whole thing follow a classic baldness pattern (studies reporting the difficulty of diagnosting CCCA in patients because of that). So yes our genetic balness could also be accelerated by cicatricial alopecia factors (less wnt, less anti inflammation protection,etc ) because of our altered vitamin A metabolism that lead to too high atRA level in every of our follicle cells


4) the more atRA , the less insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) !

"Short-term isotretinoin treatment decreases insulin-like growth factor-1 and insulin-like growth factor binding protein-3 levels"
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...618.x/abstract And atRA also impact theNOTCH1 and TGF pathway !
http://www.jbc.org/content/early/201...bc.M115.638510

__________________________________________________ __

so it's easy understable that if we have now higher atRA levels in each of our cells, we combine these 4 negative factors in each of them. And all met together in each different HF cells for infine the destruction of the follicle: in each of our dermal papilla cells for ex there's a higher rate of DHT to 5ARdht transformation, a silenced WNT pathway, no more anti inflammation protection, and less HF growth factors, all because of higher atRA than normal, so the combination definitly aggravate or even trigger our hair loss.

Don't forget that each individual metabolism don't react the same with exogenous RA administration. So for some people, the treatment will lead to dramatic changes in skin cells genes expression, and so high changes for life in cells atRA levels. For others the changes will be less strong, but still the atRA levels will be higher than it should. And for others the treatment won't be sufficient to impact the genes expression for long term;
Everyone's metabolism react differently, but whatever the scale, if accutane worked for your acne, that mean cells genes expressions changes and so higher atRA levels for long term, and so it's linked with the speed of our hair loss development

__________________________________________________ ____

THERE IS A SOLUTION
we are surely combining those 4 negative factors because of our higher atRAs levels (each individual in a different proportion of course), and so we need to eradicate these 4 aggravating factors by lowering the atRA levels.

What is determining the level of atRA in dermal papilla cells is the activity of Aldh1a3 (his role is to transform the enzymes into atRA, the more he is active, the higher level of atRA)

So I search about this, and what I found first is that inhibition of aldh1a3 is possible via the inhibition of the STAT3 pathway !! What a great surprise it was!

"Inhibition of STAT3-NFkB activity allowed high levels of DDIT3 expression with increased formation of a DDIT3-CEBP complex.This reduced the occupancy of the ALDH1A3 promoter by CEBP, thus largely reducing the ALDH1A3 expression."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4494963/

I'm sure you all aware of the jak/stat3 inhibitors recently tested for alopecias areata and universalis. So it was good surprise when i searched about aldh1a3 inhibition and found the connexion with jak/stat3 pathway.

all of this show that it can work for us to at least suppress the 4 aggravating factors by inhibiting aldh1a3 and so the atRA levels in our dermal papillas cells = less 5ARdht formation + more WNT + more PPAR protection + more IGF-1 and IGFBP3 + less negative interactions with TGF and notch pathway


So yes we definitly have to correct what accutane changed in our follicles cells if we want to fight our balness progress.
Everyone of us who have higher atRAs than the normal will benefit of it as we'll become free of the 4 aggravating factors that kill the follicles. So some of us could expect dramatic positive results I think.

So now I search in France a Professional/clinic/dermato/etc, I will send them the whole facts explication with all the studies, and they should easily understand why testing a topical jak/stat could benefit my 'genetic baldness aggravated by acutane alteration of vitaminA metabolism'.
If i don't find in France, i will already begin the natural way and search for a comprehensive doctor/clinic in other countries.
So If you are in the same case as me and want to try, I encourage you to talk at some professionnals about it, ask them what they think about this, show the studies, and they will logically understand why you want to give it a try like in the other alopecias cases (AA and AU). they'll for sure understand why we want to suppress the things that accelerate/aggravate/maybe even trigger our baldness in our alopecia case. It's sure we can find some Professionals that could be interested to see what it does in cases like us.
I begin in France but will also search in other countries, I need the 6 month treatment test to see what it does! With all these studies I can't wait for more years, cause all suggest it'll definitly be benificial for my hair loss, but what I really want and can't wait to know is in which proportion! I fckn need that answer^^


So tell me if you see some error or contradictions above, but everything I wrote comes from the studies of well known scientists specialized in dermatology, and infine everything fits

accutane can induce longterm high atRAs level expression in the cells =high atRA induce 4 factors that induce hair loss = with this hell of a combination, we develop our predisposed balness faster (maybe even really faster) than what it should have been normally. And those factors explain also why some of us also have hard thinning of the donor area at such a young age"

On 6/6/2016 at 1:31 AM, De Rerum Natura said:

2)The more atRA, the less WNT activity !RA signaling and WNT pathway work together, they regulate each other for many things .

"We identified a signaling cascade through which retinoic acid switches off Wnt"
"these results further indicate that RA inhibits WNT signaling"
"Our 3 preliminary studies indicate that RA does indeed interact with WNT signaling in the hair"
""Follicular localization sites (including hair follicle stem cells) of several WNT signaling molecules are similar to those of synthesis enzymes of retinoic acid (RA), a vitamin A metabolite."
"All trans-Retinoic Acid Mediates Wnt/-catenin Signaling through MED28 in Human Colon Cancer Cells"
"All-Trans Retinoic Acid-Induced Deficiency of the Wnt/-Catenin Pathway Enhances Hepatic Carcinoma Stem Cell Differentiation"

Well I stop here (you can write the sentences in Google to find each study), they are hundreds of other studies explaining the interaction between RA activity and WNT and so in each of our follicle cells (more importantly DP cells), there's too high atRA level, so automatically less activation of WNT.

Lithium is a very potent Wnt promoter

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.329.419&rep=rep1&type=pdf

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/51476-the-anabolic-effect-of-lithium/

also another forum suggested lithium:

Posted05 April 2015 - 05:16 PM

I've been taking lithium orotate the past couple of days. Whatever it is doing, it's powerful. I can feel it in my brain and gut. Definitely crosses the blood brain barrier.

I take Pure encapsulations brand. Took 10 mg lithium orotate at one time yesterday (with bone broth) and I had to discontinue what I was doing to just sit there and let the effects go away. Took about 30min-1hr for effects to fade. I can't explain the feeling. Dizziness perhaps? Nausea? I don't know. It was a WEIRD feeling. Perhaps I was getting too much serotonin and my body couldn't clear it.

Here's a hair mineral analysis I had done showing low lithium. This was 2 yrs after accutane treatment.
[Edited link out]
Anyone else care to share their hair mineral analysis results (lithium especially)?

More lithium information:

been interested in lithium for a while now.     also really interested in DHEA.   DHEA is converted into DHT.   ill be getting a DHEA-S and another ceruloplasmin test this week.

Tryingtohelp,

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3484795/
"a significant negative correlation between lithium & relating to people (p = 0.028), emotional (p = 0.044), adaptation to changes (p = 0.027), visual response (p = 0.023) and Total CARS (p = 0.013). This means that a lower lithium hair value is associated with more impairment in relation to people, emotion, adaptation to changes, visual response and more total CARS. " (CARS stands for Childhood Autism Rating Scale)

I definitely match those symptoms in a few ways. Start off with 5 mg lithium orotate at night and see how you do. I'd take it with other minerals just to be safe (especially potassium)

Lithium also affects B12 a lot. It gets it into the cell. Does anyone here have high serum B12 levels indicating low intracellular B12? I do.

Going through a long period of stress (like accutane treatment) can deplete lithium levels significantly. I personally had MAJOR emotional trauma during my accutane treatment which I'm sure is a big part of my illness.

A testimonial:
"I am very impressed with the benefits that this supplements provides. I have suffered with a chronic pain condition that was undiagnosed by a dozen PHD's. A hair analysis showed that I had no lithium salts in my system. after several months of using this product my pain has been reduced by 75%. great product! "

Lamme,
Can you share your hair mineral analyses? I'd love to see your lithium levels.
Others please share as well.

Can someone get access to this:
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs40278-014-5555-2

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26108692
"In this work, we demonstrate that LiCl, a well-tolerated agent in humans, has antileukemic activity in APL and that it has the potential to restore RA-induced transcriptional activation and differentiation in RA-resistant APL cells in an MEK/ERK-dependent manner. "
Hmm. Read the above study carefully. We may be amplifying the effects of retinoic acid. Not sure.

But then again, it may be helping us:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22996420
"Indeed, during differentiation induced byATRA, G185R cell line showed significant cell death. Also, up-regulated BiP expression accompanied cell death in the G185R cells, suggesting that the overexpression of G185R elastase increases apoptosis through an unfolded protein response. The G185R cells treated withlithiumchloride (LiCl; a Wnt signalling activator) displayed higher BiP expression but similar cell viability compared with THP1 and HNEwt/THP1 cells treated with LiCl. This suggested that Wnt signalling might increase cellular tolerance to endoplasmic reticulum stress, enabling mutant monocyte survival. "

I wonder if many of the suicides from accutane could've been prevented by supplementing them with lithium orotate.
It's possible that we have all become lithium deficient.

Lithium orotate supplementation seems incredibly safe. It's even found in some springs where people get healing. Some are suggesting we replace fluoride with it to save humanity, hah.

Lithium is well known for raising white blood cells and platelets. Very cool! I have very depressed WBCs and platelets. It even helps raise neutrophils (which I also have low amounts of).
[Edited link out]