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Interesting...so how to treat? I was diagnosed as hypogonadal by a wellness GP (not by an Endo, so its still borderline whether I have it or not) ... Ifind when I taketest cream or even HCG, I dont feel much (slightly more with HCG though)....maybe need attack it more up stream? But taking IGF would be cost prohibitive?
IGF1 levels reflect your growth hormone levels, as gh increases it. Test also boosts it somewhat. Its probably wiser to get HGH from a doctor than to try IGF1, as it acts locally where you inject it. Hence useful for muscle growth but not systemic increase of igf1. its also extremely expensive regardless of sourced legally or not.
Tbh the solution is not to take a certain hormone but to fix the underlying cause of low hormone levels, which is hypothalamus dysfunction. Inflammation from foods will cause all sorts of havoc for the hpta/hpa axis. As pointet out milk is inflammatory.
I posted a list of foods highly unlikely to cause inflammation above.
HCG and test worked for me when my problems were much worse than now, but i went off both as i managed to restore my own production. (I was on test and hcg maybe 2 years ago from doctor prescription due to being hypo) Now my levles are stable at top end of range for test. DHEA also top range and it was really low 1 year ago
Never measured IGF1 or growth hormone levels, dont know if regular docs can do that. I have access to private labs tho
2 hours ago, Mike San said:Interesting...so how to treat? I was diagnosed as hypogonadal by a wellness GP (not by an Endo, so its still borderline whether I have it or not) ... Ifind when I taketest cream or even HCG, I dont feel much (slightly more with HCG though)....maybe need attack it more up stream? But taking IGF would be cost prohibitive?
Try to get your wellness GP to prescribe you test injections and see if that works. Test cream is highly unreliable
17 hours ago, Relentless1k said:
Why do you say omega 3's are bad for tane' sufferers?I dont know why,but if its because of retinol (vit A), i too feared that for years, but concluded its still good. I HIGHLY doubt accutane screws over the systems involved in processing A. Accutane is already a "pre converted" form of retinol and its not entirely similar, and does not share nutrient status with actual vit A as far as i know. (I might be wrong of course)
There might be another reason why you fear fish oil (i can only think of blood thinning, but thats healthy)
DHA/EPA would work fine isolated, from either fish or algae sources. I have a good experience with both. Advice would be to stick with minimum effective dose, as overdoing it just gives negative results (to healthy ppl as well)
---------------Taurine
I see you guys recently started trying out and discussing taurine, heres my recent effects from it:
5g of taurine with 3g ish of glycine produced a really potent effect in me. 1g taurine and up to 10g of glycine in isolation does not do this so im thinking its either just the 5g of taurine or maaaaybe the combination.
Results were:
The heart palpitations that ive had for a year are gone, (Heart beating really hard/increased awareness of it beating in upper body, neck and head 24/7)
Slowing of heart rate (mine was elevated)-Breathing problems gone
Extreme reduction in anxiety similar to benzo's (pharma anti anxiety meds)and or phenibut. (Also a pharmaceutrical anti anxiety med but its legal as a supplement, really powerful stuff. Dont mess with it..)
My depression is gone and i cant force myself to think negative at all (this obviously wont last i assume, but its nice to know it works and can be used on particularly bad days.)
General well being and reduction in fatigue (I have diagnosed CFS/ME)- Eliminated caffeine side effects (severe anxiety, panic, and heart palpitations/arrhythmia)
- Being social/speaking in general is really easy and i have a very willing urge to get stuff done and generally a big willingness to live and do fun stuff. (Which i usually dont)
Probably wont happen every time,but this effect is potent and beats nearly everything else ive used. And theres literally very few supplements i havent used. I only have some herbs left to try then ive tried everything unless i pre determined it wont help me.
Only thing more powerful is benzos and pheni. But low dose pheni is weaker.
Ive taken 1-2g taurine for a long time so i was not deficient.
Good to hear you've had some good results from taurine, and it's interesting to read your experiences with heart palpitations/heart beating 'hard' and being aware of heart-beat in your head and neck. This is one of the first things I noticed that was 'wrong' post-tame, and I remember seeing the doctor about these symptoms, only to be told nothing was wrong as per usual. Quite a few sups I've tried, such as choline and also RSO have resulted in me waking in the night with a thumping heart beat and palpitations, despite also yielding some benefits.
I've been taking 2-3g/day of taurine per day for a couple of weeks now, and it definitely has a calming effect, but that's all I've noticed.
I'm slowly introducing NAC at the moment (to increase glutathione, also ensuring I get good dietary sources of the precursors) but hoping the effect of taurine will allow me to also reintroduce TUDCA and Choline. From what I've read NAC is effective at raising glutathione, but only for a relatively short period so needs to be taken 2/3 times throughout the day.
Guessing you've probably seen mario vitalis theory on ER stress/misfolded proteins, but quite a few of the sups in your regime overlap with his
23 minutes ago, tanedout said:
Good to hear you've had some good results from taurine, and it's interesting to read your experiences with heart palpitations/heart beating 'hard' and being aware of heart-beat in your head and neck. This is one of the first things I noticed that was 'wrong' post-tame, and I remember seeing the doctor about these symptoms, only to be told nothing was wrong as per usual. Quite a few sups I've tried, such as choline and also RSO have resulted in me waking in the night with a thumping heart beat and palpitations, despite also yielding some benefits.
I've been taking 2-3g/day of taurine per day for a couple of weeks now, and it definitely has a calming effect, but that's all I've noticed.
I'm slowly introducing NAC at the moment (to increase glutathione, also ensuring I get good dietary sources of the precursors) but hoping the effect of taurine will allow me to also reintroduce TUDCA and Choline. From what I've read NAC is effective at raising glutathione, but only for a relatively short period so needs to be taken 2/3 times throughout the day.
Guessing you've probably seen mario vitalis theory on ER stress/misfolded proteins, but quite a few of the sups in your regime overlap with his
Yeah i had those heart issues since 2014. (heart is in good health but it causes mad anxiety when you can feel it all day and night)
Potassium, reducing b vitamin doses and high dose taurine worked. I dont really know why taurine in 5g did that. (havent felt my heart since that which is 1 day ago now and blood pressure is still normal, normal pulse etc) Low dose taurine 1-2g never did anything so i stopped taking it over a year ago. I just recently got it again because im getting rid of most animal products, to prevent deficiency. Its cheap.
Again i paired it with glycine, and they do act on the same systems in the brain so that might be why it worked so well.
take NAC at most 1200mg daily, divided in 2 doses of 600mg. Breakfast and lunch. (NAC is not actually that safe)
Up to 1800mg daily works, but it should be cycled regardless of dose. There are some worrying side effects like it causing high pressure in the lungs which is deadly, damaging the heart and breaking down the blood brain barrier. Again all that was from chronic use so its probably best to cycle it max 4 weeks at a time. I dont take it anymore.
Its good for glutathione yeah. Ive tried liposomal glutathione as well and it increased brain fog, idk why. Phoenix rising members claims glutathione and nac can cause acute b12 deficiency and move heavy metals to the brain. I think ill reserve NAC/glutathione for times where i have worked out too much or am sick etc. Thinking 2weeks at the most with 1200mg daily. No long term studies are done as far as i know.
I know about misfolded proteins but i have not seen his thread. Thanks!
Btw ox bile contains TUDCA/UDCA and is way easier to source/cheaper + other benefits. (Unless im completely mistaken, but im fairly sure)
I have tried pharmaceutrical UDCA and it didnt really do anything, it was not worth the cost at least. Ox bile did help with fat digestion, but i took it back when i wasnt educated enough so i took it with a diet that didnt work for me, which made it not that useful..
You ever tried sunflower lecithin for choline? Also has phosphatidylserine and phosphatidylinositol. I find it just as effective as most other choline supps. Increase methylation as well.
Also i have a theory that accutane / generally being sick post tanemay have depleted NAD+ levels. Supplementing niagen/nicotinamide riboside had a powerful effect in me. Now i take 150mg every 2-3 daysbecause its really expensive. Have tried over a gram. Best results were with 300-400mg
Its one of the new big shots in the health industry. " Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+) is an essential metabolite in all human cells. It plays a key role in cellular metabolism within the powerhouses of the cell, the mitochondria. Mitochondria have long been known to perform important cellular functions related to converting nutrients such as fats, proteins and carbohydrates into energy, but researchers have begun to further study the broader role of mitochondria in protecting against a wide range of adverse health conditions. "
As far as i know ATP and NAD+ are the two sources of energy all our cells have. ATP being the biggest source. Everything you eat turns to ATP. Too much calories = too much ATP= fat gain
I have tried T injections before, great response in the first 2 weeks, but then died down and couldn't replicate with further injections...body adapted.
The problem with trying to find the underlying cause, is that often it is very difficult and almost impossible to find or prove what it is.
Im just lost here, and please, help me if you can to grasp how we. The. Well the victims of the worst drug possible. For CHRIST sake. This vitamin A chemotherapyhas SHRUNKEN, our adrenal and sex glans. To think that something else is going on is.
Look.
I dont know what is going to happen. We are to be recognized. more than standard chemo therapy patients if not as much at least.
The underlying cause isnt exactly that hard to find if you can afford testing. The body doesnt have too many systems.
If you have problems with hormones and fatigue its always a hypothalamus issue. Adrenals are controlled by the hypothalamus so disregard "adrenal fatigue". Theres a reason why its not accepted as a disease in medicine, because it is just a result of another dysfunction.
Structure your diet in a way that you dont get inflammation and oxidative stress from it.
Get all nutrient RDA's (which is a lot of nutrients)
Make sure methylation is working
Aid your digestion (Betaine HCl for stomach acid, digestive enzymes for general digestion, ox bile/tudca for fat digestion. Probiotics for intestinal health. Veggies for instestine health.)
Supplement any other amino acids that you want, that you dont get from food. (Usually taurine, beta alanine, l-carnitine and creatine)
Compounds to decrease inflammation (which will fix the hypothalamus over time) (go for natural if you can)
Balance your immune system (you are usually th1 or th2 dominant)
Supplement hormones if you are sure you cant recover self production.
If all standard testing at ur doctor is fine then it either means it is fine or you need more complex testing.
If you have an infection from bacteria, virus or parasite etc treat that with pharma meds combined with natural substances.
Dietary rules: Get omega 3's, not a lot of omega 6, as much saturated fat as you can handle, get at least 125g carbs and max 50g fructose, get 50-150g protein depending on weight and activity level. Get a lot of fiber from veggies and some fruit. Chose whatever food sources you want. Grains, dairy, beans, legumes and nuts are the worst sources. Potatoes and red pepper is also bad.
Figure out if you have histamine issues and adjust your diet.
Body should run like clockwork when it doesnt receive damage and has all ingredients it needs. Medications cant fix the body, only work as band aids. But food andsupplements can provide what the body needs to fix itself. (might not be possible, but we must never give up. And we can at least live as well as possible, if we can never heal fully. Better than being bedridden and near death)
If mental issues get in the way of your willpower so you cant be bothered to eat healthy and take supps, then try to treat that naturally or with meds.. Dont try SSRI meds if you are going to take aminos and methylation supps. Methylation and lack of inflammation + proper amino acid intake should make sure your neurotransmitters are adequate.
As of right now there isnt any clear indication besides reduction in DHT and IGF1 that accutane does. Maybe altered vitamin A metabolism.
Obviously it tends to screw the liver but that can heal over time. I healed both liver and kidney
Also work on your mitochondrial health outside of everything ive already mentioned. (PQQ, NAD+,MitoQ, creatineand oxaloacetateare the best atm)
Natural compounds that are worth taking: Curcumin (Meriva or Longvida), Trans-resveratrol (not very important), licorice root, milk thistle, EGCG, grape seed extract, berberine
Many other herbs are useful but its individually specific. Either to modulate the immune system or to lower or raise cortisol, anti bacterial etc. Many uses but they are not really powerful. Ginger root, gynostemma, reishi etc are examples. It depends on you if you can benefit from them or not.
If you dont bother to take a bunch of supps you could take this: http://iherb.com/Life-Extension-Mix-Powder-14-81-oz-420-g/62228 But it will give you too much nutrients if you already eat a lot of greens.. You dont have to take the full dose. I would take 1.5scoops instead of 3. Thorne Research http://iherb.com/Thorne-Research-Basic-Nutrients-V-180-Veggie-Caps/18123 is also good. Again you dont need full dose.
1 hour ago, Mike San said:I have tried T injections before, great response in the first 2 weeks, but then died down and couldn't replicate with further injections...body adapted.
The problem with trying to find the underlying cause, is that often it is very difficult and almost impossible to find or prove what it is.
Weird, i responded well to it for 1,5 years then i quit because i wanted to see if body would start producing again. It took a year but it did..
I didnt respond to it straight after accutane for some reason. Well i probably did respond the same but libido is affected a lot by inflammation etc, so it wont really help if you have a lot of T. Also could have been that DHT took a long time to recover after accutane and thats why T didnt help post tane, because it didnt convert to DHT anyway. Now i seem to convert just fine, idk.. Less than pre accutane but enough that im "normal"
Btw this study on lectins showed 800 people with autoimmune issues and 200 healthy persons got reduced inflammation from cutting out all lectin sources ( grains, sprouted grains, pseudo-grains, beans and legumes, soy, peanuts, cashews, nightshades, melons and squashes, and non-Southern European cow milk products (Casein A1), and grain and/or bean fed animals.): http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/129/Suppl_1/AP354
I forgot about this discussion. I wrote here some months ago when I had a bad brain fog (for years) and other problems. I took accutane from 2009 to 2011
Now I got rid of my brain fog and I'm living a perfectly normal life. I don't know exactly what lifted the brain fog (and the rest)...I took some supplements (vitamin D, vitamin C, B complex, Zinc ecc), went to the gym 6 days a week, ate an healthy diet and most important I tried to let go of all the stressful situations in my life and enjoyed life more (traveling, going out with friends, meeting new people ecc). My brain fog went away completely (I suffered from it for years).
Maybe it was depression or stress.....I remember reading a book "the divided mind" and it explains very well the psychosomatic illnesses our mind create. Of course I didn't believe in it back then but now I'm starting to think it's completely legit...all the problems I had are now gone. Back then I was a fucking train wreck...I even thought I had candida or some weird virus (because of thebrain fog)and I threatened my doctor to prescribe me diflucan (he didn't luckily). Can't believe how I'm changed.
Good luck everybody...
3 hours ago, Relentless1k said:
Yeah i had those heart issues since 2014. (heart is in good health but it causes mad anxiety when you can feel it all day and night)
Potassium, reducing b vitamin doses and high dose taurine worked. I dont really know why taurine in 5g did that. (havent felt my heart since that which is 1 day ago now and blood pressure is still normal, normal pulse etc) Low dose taurine 1-2g never did anything so i stopped taking it over a year ago. I just recently got it again because im getting rid of most animal products, to prevent deficiency. Its cheap.
Again i paired it with glycine, and they do act on the same systems in the brain so that might be why it worked so well.
take NAC at most 1200mg daily, divided in 2 doses of 600mg. Breakfast and lunch. (NAC is not actually that safe)
Up to 1800mg daily works, but it should be cycled regardless of dose. There are some worrying side effects like it causing high pressure in the lungs which is deadly, damaging the heart and breaking down the blood brain barrier. Again all that was from chronic use so its probably best to cycle it max 4 weeks at a time. I dont take it anymore.
Its good for glutathione yeah. Ive tried liposomal glutathione as well and it increased brain fog, idk why. Phoenix rising members claims glutathione and nac can cause acute b12 deficiency and move heavy metals to the brain. I think ill reserve NAC/glutathione for times where i have worked out too much or am sick etc. Thinking 2weeks at the most with 1200mg daily. No long term studies are done as far as i know.
I know about misfolded proteins but i have not seen his thread. Thanks!
Btw ox bile contains TUDCA/UDCA and is way easier to source/cheaper + other benefits. (Unless im completely mistaken, but im fairly sure)
I have tried pharmaceutrical UDCA and it didnt really do anything, it was not worth the cost at least. Ox bile did help with fat digestion, but i took it back when i wasnt educated enough so i took it with a diet that didnt work for me, which made it not that useful..You ever tried sunflower lecithin for choline? Also has phosphatidylserine and phosphatidylinositol. I find it just as effective as most other choline supps. Increase methylation as well.
Also i have a theory that accutane / generally being sick post tanemay have depleted NAD+ levels. Supplementing niagen/nicotinamide riboside had a powerful effect in me. Now i take 150mg every 2-3 daysbecause its really expensive. Have tried over a gram. Best results were with 300-400mg
Its one of the new big shots in the health industry. " Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+) is an essential metabolite in all human cells. It plays a key role in cellular metabolism within the powerhouses of the cell, the mitochondria. Mitochondria have long been known to perform important cellular functions related to converting nutrients such as fats, proteins and carbohydrates into energy, but researchers have begun to further study the broader role of mitochondria in protecting against a wide range of adverse health conditions. "
As far as i know ATP and NAD+ are the two sources of energy all our cells have. ATP being the biggest source. Everything you eat turns to ATP. Too much calories = too much ATP= fat gain
Yeah Ive tried Oxbile in the past (for about 2 months), but didnt notice anything from it. With TUDCA I got much improved mental clarity, but after taking it for 4-5 weeks I started to feel pretty bad on it, possibly due to lowered blood pressure (was taking 3 x 200mg). I intend to restart, and will probably try 2 x 200mg daily when I do.
Regarding Choline Ive tried lecithin but get brain fog from that (may retry at some point), CDP choline worked best - supposed to increase dopamine and can believe it, but seemed to increase stress/feeling of anxiety, so potentially also increasing cortisol. Tried Alpha GDP choline and didnt get on with that at all.
Ive heard of NAD, and I see it is basically active B3 (although a different form to niacin). Seems oxidative stress reduces NAD, and oxidative stress is definitely an issue post-tame
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22848760
Also interesting to note that fasting and calorie restriction increase NAD;
http://jcb.rupress.org/content/199/2/205.full
Low NAD levels also contribute to brain fog, have you noticed any impairments in mental clarify taking it?
Some quite good info on NAD relating to brain fog here for anyone whos interested
http://selfhacked.com/2013/06/15/the-cause-of-brain-fog/#Brain_Fog_and_Low_NAD_Levels
Also besides lowering DHT and IGF1 accutane has also been shown to increase GNMT activity (you might have seen this one already if youre supplementing glyiene etc)
All these supplements don't work for us because they are too ''soft'' in my opinion. How I said before, the main problem we have is impaired IGF-1 and this is caused by upregulation of FoxO1. You can read this if you google Isotretinoin and FoxO1. FoxO gene downregulates IGF-1, and interfares with androgen receptor. I have found an FoxO1 inhibitor on internet but don't know if a human could use this and how to use it. By lowering FoxO1 IGF-1 increases on natural way.
Last message: for years I was an active member of forums where other people with my same problems shared their ideas and research papers on how to get rid of it. I'm talking about forum like curezone, propeciahelp, this forum and a lot more. My symptoms didn't improve at allin those years and maybe they even got worse. My brain fog was so bad I can't even describe it. I lost three years of university because I couldn't study and couldn't say a sentence because I didn't remember the words (I actually thought I had alzhaimer for a while)
When, some months ago, I met new people and started to stop (and forget) togo to forum, reading research ecc and actually enjoy life much more my symptoms stopped completely (gradually over the course of some months). I know it's weird but that's actually what happened.
I think that until you keep searching for a solution and write inforum like this you'll never heal completely because your belief of you having something will be reinforced day after day. Our mind can play weird trick on us. I spent thousands of euro onproducts and test and they all showed I had nothing but since I felt the symptoms I believed I had something and didn't believe thedoctors. Until I believed I had something and didn't enjoy lifeI never got better.
I think that's probably why people that cure themselves don't usually come back to share their success. They fear to go back where they were or that other people don't believe them when they say how they healed themselves. And I'll actually do the same...that's my last message in this topic...wish you guys good!!
P.S: sorry for the english
^ Yea! You are right. I went to sleep last night with Intracranial hypertension, tinnuts, night blindness. I thought positive thoughts before I went to bedand woke up this morning cured. Oh wait...no, it didn't work. In fact it hasn't worked in 8 years. Some of these neurological side effects are chemical imbalances that need actual treatments.
On 12/7/2015 at 1:37 AM, Mike San said:^ That is definitely true.
Rekless, where did you get the idea NAC can break down the BBB?
Studies where the result was breakdown of BBB. A quick google search gives you at least two studies saying that (the first 3 results and 2 of them are about that) Same study also notes kidney damage.
On rats however.
N-acetylcysteine (NAC) promotes blood-brain barrier (BBB) breakdown in SHRSP and may thus accelerate the failure of vascular and perivascular clearance of A.
OBJECTIVE:
In this study, we test the hypothesis that treatment with NAC increases the cerebral A load and improves renal damage in the SHRSP model.
(SHRSP means hypertensive stroke prone rats)
The impact of NAC on cerebral cortical plaque load increase may result from the vascular pathology of SHRSP that accompanies BBB breakdown, leading to the failure of amyloid clearance mechanisms. It remains to be seen whether in humans chronic NAC intake may increase amyloid load in the aging human brain and dementia.
On 12/7/2015 at 12:53 AM, tanedout said:
Yeah Ive tried Oxbile in the past (for about 2 months), but didnt notice anything from it. With TUDCA I got much improved mental clarity, but after taking it for 4-5 weeks I started to feel pretty bad on it, possibly due to lowered blood pressure (was taking 3 x 200mg). I intend to restart, and will probably try 2 x 200mg daily when I do.
Regarding Choline Ive tried lecithin but get brain fog from that (may retry at some point), CDP choline worked best - supposed to increase dopamine and can believe it, but seemed to increase stress/feeling of anxiety, so potentially also increasing cortisol. Tried Alpha GDP choline and didnt get on with that at all.
Ive heard of NAD, and I see it is basically active B3 (although a different form to niacin). Seems oxidative stress reduces NAD, and oxidative stress is definitely an issue post-tame
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22848760
Also interesting to note that fasting and calorie restriction increase NAD;
http://jcb.rupress.org/content/199/2/205.full
Low NAD levels also contribute to brain fog, have you noticed any impairments in mental clarify taking it?
Some quite good info on NAD relating to brain fog here for anyone whos interested
http://selfhacked.com/2013/06/15/the-cause-of-brain-fog/#Brain_Fog_and_Low_NAD_Levels
Also besides lowering DHT and IGF1 accutane has also been shown to increase GNMT activity (you might have seen this one already if youre supplementing glyiene etc)
[removed] is a really good site, spoken to him a few times (he stopped talking to people unless you pay him close to 100$ an hour now.)and ive read all his articles many times, and tried nearly all of his recommendations.
He helped me understand why the way i eat actually works and why other foods dont work despite "being healthy" His articles on lectins are really good, i draw a lot of inspiration from him.
Yeah i know about GNMT, thats indirectly why i supplement glycine (i generallysupplement it because its cheap/really good and im trying to supplement everything with important functions that you cant get easily from diet)
I might try CDP choline, i got really angry from Alpha GPC and idk if sunflower lecithin does anything. I use it in powdered form to make my shakes mix up easier, i havent taken the pills in months.. Also made liposomal vitamin c with it so i have consumed a lot without sides that i am aware of ..
Having used all forms of B3, niagen NAD is a lot different and doesnt act like b3 does imo. It seems really important, it looks like its going to be one of the best supps for anti aging and generally supporting the body. Its like PQQ, both are found in food but not in big amounts, and supplementing is superior to foods
They used - "spontaneously hypertensive stroke-prone rats" . Would likely have a weak BBB. But anyway, I just read that NAC can increase histamine, so I think my Jarrow sustain is going to the pastures.
Have you heard anything bad about R-ALA? I seemed to have responded ok to it and dr recommended it before. Going to order some again soon.
I can't seem to post anything and all I can do is quote trantran like this.. 49 minutes ago, yetanotheraccutanevictim said:
Have you tried a different computer and or browser? Keep us update until you figure it out.
17 hours ago, Mike San said:They used - "spontaneously hypertensive stroke-prone rats" . Would likely have a weak BBB. But anyway, I just read that NAC can increase histamine, so I think my Jarrow sustain is going to the pastures.
Have you heard anything bad about R-ALA? I seemed to have responded ok to it and dr recommended it before. Going to order some again soon.
I might have found the wrong studies though. But there was a group of people way smarter than me that stopped NAC because of the lung, BBB and heart issues. (Longecity members)
R-ALA can move heavy metals into the brain from other body tissues according to nearly everyone on phoenix rising, they claim the same for NAC.
I have not used it as its illegal where i live. (Its prescription only but doctors wont prescribe it unless you have diabetes)
58 minutes ago, manalesenicola said:I would try some antidepressants because they lower foxo Levels significantly! Lower Foxo= better functioning skin androgen metabolism.
Paroxetine (anti depressant) is actually on my "if everything else fails" list.
I wont go on a SSRI now because then i cant take amino acids anymore. (Well you can take taurine etc but BCAA, EAA, tyrosine, SAM-e etc all goes out the window. I combined tramadol (SNRI) with EAA's once had seizured/mild serotonin syndrome ish)
Also tried citalopram once and i was shivering, sweating and grinding teeth for a week and constant diarrhea.
I have a bad feeling about most pharma drugs after that and obviously because of accutane. Valium also screwed me over.. Anti histamines mess with heart rate variability, antibiotics mess with everything. Its mostly just bad for humans to use too many artificial ways to alter our biology. Alltho medication do save lives i know that.
Btw if accutane really does change genes, shouldnt we be able to tell by taking a 23andme and getting it interpretted? It wont tell us what has changed cuz we didnt take it before accutane but it will tell us how to live now and what to do to up/down regulate genes.
Also i think IGF1, DHT, T, GH etc return over time. At least i regained the ability to gain muscle and my libido is really good where as it was non existant for 2 years after tane? I was maybe lucky, but other side effects are not gone.
I doubt we can fix dry skin etc because accutane just destroyed that, but i did fix my hair quality somewhat. And hair/beard color is restored from grey to dark brown.
If all else fails, in the future it wont be that expensive to get hormone replacement. If accutane sufferers dont respond to even injected hormones, then i have no clue. Maybe just hope that with taking care of the body the sensitivity to androgens will return. Receptors should regenerate every single day..
Posting is also really really buggy for me (chrome)
Thanks I didnt know that about ALA and I do a lot of reading usually. I used to take it for anti oxidant and nutrient partitioning effects if you take a large sugary meal. I don't have mercury toxicity that I know of and never had amalgams, but don't want heavy metals being moved around !
58 minutes ago, Relentless1k said:Paroxetine (anti depressant) is actually on my "if everything else fails" list.
I wont go on a SSRI now because then i cant take amino acids anymore. (Well you can take taurine etc but BCAA, EAA, tyrosine, SAM-e etc all goes out the window. I combined tramadol (SNRI) with EAA's once had seizured/mild serotonin syndrome ish)
Also tried citalopram once and i was shivering, sweating and grinding teeth for a week and constant diarrhea.
I have a bad feeling about most pharma drugs after that and obviously because of accutane. Valium also screwed me over.. Anti histamines mess with heart rate variability, antibiotics mess with everything. Its mostly just bad for humans to use too many artificial ways to alter our biology. Alltho medication do save lives i know that.
That's quite interesting Relentless. I too have had an instance of what only can be described as temporary alcohol withdrawl to a mild serotonin like syndrome one night when combining about 375ml of alcohol, and a standard dose of motrin PM, which has in it anantihistamine, before bed. It wasn't until the next morning and about 12 hours later. I've replicated similar symptoms only once before through just alcohol consumption, but it was a far larger copious amount throughout a full 2 days, and it wasn't as intense, but was identical in that it was again 12 hours after cessation of ealcohol, that created mild DT alcohol withdrawl like symptoms. I'm thinking the anti histamine in the Motrim PM antagonized something. Again, Ethanol has been my crutch all these years as it is the only drug thathas a positive effect towardsmy dopamine. Not even powerful prescription opiod pain killers bring me pleasure, rather a feeling of groginess and spaced out excitability.I've tried several pharmaceutical drugspost tane that I used to quite enjoy pre tane and I can tell you something is definitely off chemically or metabolically in us.