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On 12/21/2015 at 12:18 AM, elmechanico said:As I said before, it will probably help your hair a lot but there is a risk as well. Any reason why you want to take Dut instead of Fin?
If you want you can PM me and we can talk there
I am on a private forum for hairloss and basically, a lot of guys there have been on fin and they do better on Dut. 4year study on Dut shows it is more effective than Fin on keeping more hair.
I understand how both drugs work, and I understand Din only blocks type II 5-ARI and Dut is stronger and blocks both. HOWEVER, there is some smart people on the forum who believe Dut is actually safer than Fin despite this, due to it's pharmacology. i.e it may not have as much chance at causing PFS (long term side effects from 5-ARI inhibition). Also some ppl have sides on fin, and none on Dut.
My issue with my hair is hairline.. and hair in front is thinning before my eyes... It is really making me depressed and I obsess over it a lot. If I was on Dut I feel like I would feel better as at least I know I've tried. I am scared sh*tless of getting permanent sides even though it is not too frequently reported.
MY 2 month progress on RU.
PRE: [Edited link out]
2MONTHS: [Edited link out]
Hey Elmechanico,
I have been on your supplements for 3 weeks excluding GABA, Chelated Calcium, L-Glutamine, himalaya salt, and copper. I just ordered these earlier today though and picked uphimalaya salt on my way home from work. I also just started to cutalcohol and coffee out of my diet.
My shedding has not stopped yet though. I am considering ordering asaliva cortisol kitto test my cortisol levels.
Also working towards an anti-inflammatory diet. Here is a good site to start:
http://rosecityacupuncture.com/blog/nightshades/
Keeping my fingers crossed!
23 hours ago, pjjordan said:Hey Elmechanico,
I have been on your supplements for 3 weeks excluding GABA, Chelated Calcium, L-Glutamine, himalaya salt, and copper. I just ordered these earlier today though and picked uphimalaya salt on my way home from work. I also just started to cutalcohol and coffee out of my diet.
My shedding has not stopped yet though. I am considering ordering asaliva cortisol kitto test my cortisol levels.
Also working towards an anti-inflammatory diet. Here is a good site to start:
http://rosecityacupuncture.com/blog/nightshades/
Keeping my fingers crossed!
I really like himalaya salt, it makes me feel really good. Anyway, I'd say the 2most important things are:
1. Healing your scalp(I personally used aloe vera and various oils) and getting maximum blood flow to your follicles
2. Reducing inflammation and getting the right nutrients to support hair growth through diet and supplements
Also useful: good posture and yoga/relaxation If your posture is fucked and you have tight muscles blood cannot go through to your follicles
Hi! About a year ago , i started taking B5/pantothein around 10 to 12 grams per day. My skin got so clear and i was so happy! For about three months i noticed that my normally thick hair was thinner and then I saw this on the internet that b5 can cause hair loss and freaked out! I took some biotin but after a couple days I had some breakouts so i stoped with biotin. I have now lowerd my dose of B5 to 1 gram per day. This is really depressing and all i can think of.. I can't sleep at night beacause of this 
I can't find anyone whi says that their hair has regrown full?? How long does it takes for my hair to stop shedding? And another question, did your acne return directly after quitting b5? Do You guys think my hair will get back to normal without taking som biotin , just natural? Please take your time to answer , i need some hope!
Hey. I think you should stop taking it. 0.5-1g is still a megadose, suggested dose of b5 is around 5mg only.
Instead take a well balanced B complex. Dont stress so much about it, I know its easy to say, but stress will just make your hair worse and thats a fact :). There are many people who recovered their hair, but it takes months. Be patient 🙂
22 hours ago, Amorina1234 said:only 0,5-1 gram per day , not megadosing it anymore
That's like having lung cancer and instead of smoking ten packs of cigarettes a day you now only smoke one pack.
Anyway, I digress. Judging by your user name I assume you are a female. Get your iron(and preferably thyroid) levels checked. Lots of women have iron deficiency anemia without knowing it because they lose a lot of blood through their periods. If your ferritin is below seventy, even if your GP says it's fine, you should take iron supplements. You need to take 75mg of iron biglyscinate(not ferrous sulfate!") together with Vitamin C. Do that for 2 months and then get your ferritin levels checked again.
Apart from that I would recommend scalp massaging, being gentle with your hair, biotin supplements and a good diet.
Good luck
(I want to end this by saying I am not a medical doctor, just a dude with a strong will who has done a lot of research and has had B5 hair loss as well)
I found a review of Vitamin B5 on Amazon. This woman experienced extreme hairloss/shedding and was able to stop it. I am going to see if she can give us the list of supplements she used but she says she used Barlean's Organic Oils Essential WomanwhichcontainsEvening Primrose Oil and noticed a decrease in shedding after that. Here is here testimonial:
I was really excited to start this supplement, as I am very much into a more natural approach to combating my acne. I have have acne since about 13 years old. Everything short of accutane, everything. So.. I started this supplement about 6-7 grams a day. About a week in, i noticed a good amount of hair loss. I would say I am losing a little over double what I would normally lose. I have fairly thick, long, undyed hair that I rarely ever style or apply heat.
I did notice that my acne did seem to calm down, I definitely saw a reduction in oil production. I would normally blot every single time I used the restroom, and now when I test, there is barely any oil! This is huge. The hair loss though is scaring me. I take a variety of supplements in addition, I decided to add biotin, and extra B complex. I have only been taking B5 for about 2 weeks .I intend on continuing though greatly reducing how much I take. Probably only 3G as opposed to 6-7. If it helps anyone.. I am 125lbs, eat a healthy, pescatarian diet, hardly and dairy, lots of coffee (this could be a contributor?) I drink heavily usually once a week.
I will update in a month or so regarding the hair loss. I really hope I still see the oil reduction on a smaller dose, and for my hair to come back!
---9/22/14
after just two days of going from 6-7g to 2-3g the oil has seemed to return. I am ordering some other supplements to help with hair/skin. MSM, read about it.
9/2
Well I am still losing an alarming amount of hair, and have spent over $150 on supplements to slow/reverse the hairloss. PLEASE USE CAUTION. Look into the link between b5 and hairloss. I even read about it first and thought it wouldnt happen to me.. it has. I really hope the new supplements etc I am waiting for help this issue. Try other remedies first.... I dont really understand how this is happening considering this isnt a fat soluable vitamin and you are said to excrete what you dont need/use..
--update 11/11/14
I continued to lose a lot of hair, especially in the shower. It definitely was apparent to me. I recently started taking a supplement called "essential woman" by barleans greens because I read that Evening Primrose Oil can slow hair loss. I dont know if its the mixture in the supplement or just the EPO but my hairloss has dramatically decreased. I am finally feeling like i might have a handle on this situation. I still lose hair, but i would say its more like 50-70 strands a day as compared to the maybe 200+ i was loosing before.
Update 12/1/14
My hair seems to have stopped shedding. I cant say I know what exactly it was.. maybe the loss ran its course, I still regret this though. I spent SOO much money trying to combat the hairloss. I am still taking EPO
If you are experiencing hair loss please feel free to contact me. I feel like I tried everything... I know how scary it can be.
Here is what she wrote in another review of Optimox Iodoral High Potency Iodine Potassium Iodide Thyroid Support Supplement. She lists the supplements she is currently using that stopped her hairloss.
I have always had irregular pap results on and off, never having to do more than get a colposcopy but still, the constant back and forth is a constant stress. Late last year I made the mistake of megadosing on vitamin b5 (I have reviews in for now foods product)--this REEKED havoc on my hormones. I began rapidly loosing hair and feeling crappy but I didn't realize it was hormone related until I had blood tests and a pap smear. I came back with irregular results, my estrogen was extremely high for me (28 yo no kids or anything) at near 600 and my progesterone was extremely low at >.5. I know from reading and experience about supplementation (except for the b5 i guess ha) so I began diligently taking a host of supplements that lead to a complete regression of all my issues. After about 6 months of taking various products that i will outline later, my Estrogen and progesterone are now in more normal levels, my pap came back completely clear, my hair is no longer falling out, i produce more vaginal fluid during sex (good thing), my hormonal acne has leveled ( i still get one or two occasionally).
There is a STRONG connection between hormone regularity and all "female" issues- breast cancer, soreness, cysts--Cervical, uterine health.. much more. Before all of this BS I had no idea how vital it is to keep your hormones happy.
What I take regularly.
-Dim 1x day
-folate (really important for cervical health)
-iodine
-d3
-hair skin nails formula OR b complex
-liver complex.
-progesterone (topical)
Interesting...she seems to have taken similar supps as I did.
I also used a variety of oils.
Anyway, since last week my hair has been shedding for the first time in months. It all happened after I washed my hair with aleppo soap.
Maybe it's just another cycle that the hair needs to get through or maybe I messed up something with my scalp.
It took me a long time to see improvements, be patient guys
Hi, I have been reading acne.org for a few years, never leave any comment before, but I would like to say something today,
I am a businesswoman and a mom. I am an Asian.
This is what have happened to my son also having hair loss during taking B5. He has acne since age 13, took Accutane on age 19 for 4 months, having bad side effect and diarrhea for almost a year. acne come back after a few months after stopping Accutane, we took Align probiotic for a few months to help stop the diarrhea, however acne came back in full force and very oily face after taking the probiotic. took Accutane again in very low dose at 5 mg per day for 4 months again after 2 yearsbut didn't work at all, and seems worse and worse, we finally stop taking the Accutane.
We brought Clearzine and also B5 from "Now" brand . Took Clearzine 1-2 pills per day for a month together with 1 pill 250mg Lactoferrin ( we also brought that at the same time). It seems less oily but with red face while taking clearzine, pimples decreased a little, but he has having heart beats and hungry all the time for the first month. So we stopped taking clearzine but continue take lactoferrin each day for about another month. Face seems less red and less oily while on lactoferrin but by the end of the month, suddenly woke up with full force of acne covered all over the face. So we thought may be the lactoferrin doesn't work that good because it is made from milk and he can't take lactose, and start getting diarrhea so we stopped it but switched back on clearzine again, however it doesn't work with 1-2 pills this time, so we have to increase it to 3 clearzine with 1 b5 from now brand) total 4 pills 2g to get the same effect as the first month ( only reduced the oil but with red face), on the 2nd weeks, hair start to fall during the day, and lost may be about 20 -30 on the pillows each night. he never have any hairloss before even on Accutane, he also getting very tired all day, sleep thought almost all day everyday. we quickly decrease the dose to 1-2 pills again on the 3rd week, ( hairloss didn't stop) so we finally stopped taking clearzine and b5 by the end of dec.2015. Acne never seem better or worst taking b5 . after we stop taking the b5,his face and the whole body front and back covered with many tiny red pimples. He never got any pimples on his body, He only have it on his face before. This is the situation on the 1st week after quitting b5.
I am very worried about his health and also his hairloss.
I then started to do some research to find out what have happened and why it caused hairloss and affect his health so much in so short period of time with such low dose of b5. A lot worse than Accutane. Obviously the b5 theory from that Dr. is just a bullshit, it could be just a theory made by the drugs company to make money.
This is my conclusion as below, and would like to share with you guys, hopefully we can find the solution and get the recovery soon.
B5 vitamin help to produce cortisol to fight off stress, it raise blood pressure and heart rate ( that's why he has increased heart beats ), increase blood clotting but suppress your immune system. ( this is for you to fight off the stressful situation during battling or hunting from nature), But soon your body will recover after eating and resting from your hunted food. But if you continue to supply your b5 consumption non-stop, your body (adrenal ) cannot rest and keep producing cortisol ( stress hormone) . when cortisol is high, it weakens your immune system by suppressing neutrophil function.
High cortisol- high DHEA, it reduce copper. deplete biotin ( biotin is made by your friendly bacteria in your gut, that's why some people broke out with probiotic) Biotin also increase oil production for your skin and hair. To reduce oil production, just need to increase b5 from foods, not from vitamin and also decrease biotin food intake.
B5 also need to work with magnesium, if you are low in magnesium from start, increase b5 won't work at all. Once your magnesium consumption is out of balance , you got crushed ( adrenal fatigue), hypoadrenia, - can not produce cortisol anymore with whatever amount of b5 intake. ( weak , tired, )
B5 also decrease other B vitamins , deficiency b2 and biotin will cause seb. Dermatitis and prosacea.
An important glucocorticoid is cortisol. This hormone carries out innumerable critical functions. It plays a pivotal role in the metabolism of proteins, carbohydrates, and fats. It sends a message to the liver to make glucose and glycogen and directs the adipose tissue to release fatty acids in to the blood. Glucocorticoids regulate inflammatory responses as well.
Glucocorticoids are involved in glucose metabolism and also stop risks of inflammation. Examples include cortisol, cortisone and corticosterone.
How B5 work with acne? It is just like taking cortisone cream but created by your body. This is just a short term fix, the longer you took, the worst for your overall health. It suppress your immune system, you will be getting weaker and weaker and will finally getting infection more easily, yeast and fungai ,( some people said b5 stop working and acne returnafter a few month to a few years , it is fungai or mites infection, not just the p. acne anymore) fungai and mites only controlled by sulfur or Nizoral, or probiotic )( BP works well with P. Acne) etc. Once you stop taking it, it will come back a lot worse than before, because you have very weak immune system. this isa well knowmsymptoms after taking cortisone drugs or injection . ( many people will have acne like symptoms ( many identical red small pimples all over the body).
It will also affect your thyroid. Thyroid disorder- introduce TE also symptomsfrom taking too long cortisone is ( fat neck, fat belly, gain weight ,thin skin ( some people said they has very thin smooth skin while on b5) skinny leg and arm, but body fat).symptoms usually happen after taking about 6 months.
Just an example: The bigger dose you use with B5, the bigger need for magnesium, If you do not have magnesium, b5 cant work anymore, if no magnesium- cannot use vitamin D3, no vitamin D3, cannot use Vitamin A, no copper- cannot use Zine. Etc. etc. it is not just magnesium, if you dont have biotin, hair will brittle and dry. All vitamin and minerals work together. You cannot overdose on any one of them.
After We stopped taking b5,weimmediately added magnesium rich foods for my son. Also take vitamin C 1000mg for a couple days, it helps lower the testosterone. Magnesium also clam down your adrenal gland. Also add Thyroid food, eg. Iodine, fish, vit.d etc. But only from food, not from vitamin supplement. We dont trust on vitamin supplement anymore. But be careful, vitamin C deplete copper , b12 etc, also because of the acid, you will get canker sore. So cannot maga dose on any thing, but only for a couple days is fine.
We took more vegetable and fruits , less meat, more water and tea. ( claming tea for adrenal ) this is very important, we need to take down our stress. Acne most likely came from stress, the more stress you have, more testosterone for cortisol, more DHEA, more DHT, more oil production. Also weak liver,if you are a late night sleeper and play video games after midnight. Your liver cannot remove toxin is another problem. Have to change your life style. Sleep before 11 p.m. is the best. At least 8-10 hours per day for a couple weeks to get better rest and will recover better soon. Take more foods good for your thyroid and liver. You also need to help smooth your lung. ( traditional Chinese doctor believe if your lung is inflamed, acne will form on your cheek. ) ( lung inflamed because of lack of sleep).I brought some Chinese cough syrup for my son to take before bed to help smooth with his lung and coughing.
I ask my son to eat more fruits ( all kinds, e.g. blueberries( for inflammation), grapes( I have read P. acne lives on grapevines . but they dont seem to have it on grapes, grapes skin has something to disturb bacterial cell wall growth), kiwi( neutralize the acid from orange ), apples ( cleaning and detox ), different fruits has different benefit, so it has to take 1-2 kinds each day. all kinds of vegetable and raw salad. More fish for omega 3 and vit. D, we don't take fish oil and cod liver oil anymore, he broke out on those, but fish seems ok. (, 15 mins under the sun will get you 10000 iu. of D3 ,But your body will know how many to take and convert, if you dont see the sun very often, You may need to take vit.d supplement 400-600 iu is enough,it works with calcium, magnesium, vit. A, if you took too much, you might get kidney stones and disturb your system again. D3 helps to increase immune system, especially good to prevent lung infection and also help activate giant white blood cell and slow down skin cell production, more likely to decrease clog pore and fight with p.acne) but you cannot take too much, it is fat solutable, will store in your liver. It also works like B5 to create skin corticosterone, if you take too much, you will see effect like taking b5, once you stop taking it, acne return in full force and you will be getting other problems worst than before. Eat less red meat, but pork and chicken and egg. Avoid probiotic for a while, no yugort. No biotin. Avoid soy product ( not good for thyroid) But you can eat more B5 foods, not from vitamins. Sleep before 12
We have No chemical wash on face, no soap, no cream. just warm water. No chemical shampoo, just regular shampoo ( unless you have to fight with fungai.) for the last 2 weeks after quitting b5.
We did not take any supplement for the last 2 weeks, no chemical on the face. I know it is hard, but we have been using all different kinds of them with no succeed either.
His hair has stop shedding after about 10 days, ( not one on the pillow for a week now ) although it is still dry but look a lot better than before. all body acne disappeared after about a week. I think it will depends on how long and how much you have damaged your system to get recovery from B5.
His face is not oily either, but still many tiny red pimples on forehead and a few big inflammed on face. He is allergic to BP, so he cant take any medication on face anymore. Around jaw area is now cleared. He have moderate acne before taking b5, but now it is returned to moderate from the worst 2 weeks ago.if you want to get heal, you need to change your diet, your late night sleep habits, your stress. ( it could be from school. We have decided to take only 2 courses for this semester to reduce the stressful school works.) it is better to delay the college graduation instead of depression because of pimples and social insecurity.
But if you have other kinds of acne, not from p.acne , like rosease or seb.dermatitis, you might need to take probiotic or sulfur cream to help fight the fungai or mites. Lactoferrin will also help if you are not allergic to lactose. However it has the grown hormone IGF.
This is all I know for now from my research. I recommend stop taking B5 and any other maga dosing on vitamin. It will create other kinds of problem with only short term fix.
You can get all kinds of minerals and vitamins from food. E.g. Idoline from salt and seaweed etc. do some research on foods.
Why we take it from foods instead of vitamins? Our body knows which vitamins and mineral we are deficiency in, they will take and convert what they need to balance it out on their own. We just need to figure out what is good to eat more and what bad to eat less. If we take vitamins in certain dose each day, our body will stop making those vitamins from foods on itself. since we have a plentiful supply each day, once we stop taking the vitamins, we will be in problem out of balance. Our body need time to learn to take it from foods again.
We dont take zinc, it increase testosterone- which will increase sebum, unless you need zine to balance out copper toxicity or you have too much estrogen. Too much copper will also cause acne.
Acne is just a signal to tell you something wrong with your system. We need time and good rest for the body to balance it out and heal itself.
I believe we can do it from the nature what God has given us, not from lab made vitamins. Dont give up. We have been fighting Acne for so many years relying on Doctors, creams and washes, antibiotic and even Accutane. None work and make him even worst with very weak immune system and allergic to almost every chemical products now. We dont trust them anymore. I hope we can go back to let the body heal by itself, just give him rest, foods, and relax. Our body should know how to balance the hormone back to normal. It just need to take time.
I believe we will know if My son will improve his acne on his face in a few more weeks. Since they are healing, No new big one are forming so far. Just 2-3 very tiny one are still forming each day. Acne form underneath the skin and usually takes about 3 weeks to surface. So if he past his 3-4 weeks without new formation, he will get clearer skin after 4 weeks. Hopefully with the changing in diet and lifestyle. He can make it.
I am not good in writing because my English is not my first lang, so please disregard my poor grammer. I really want to help. Since I understand all the frustration and hopeless you all are dealing with right now. May God Bless.
Thanks for posting that new2016, I totally agree about not taking supplements, I think we should have all learnt our lesson there.
Your advice about vitamin D and stress seems true for me, I meditate 30 minutes each day and often go for walks in the sun. My hair loss is definitely less than a few years ago but I'm still losing.
What part of Asia are you from? I'm from England but living in Vietnam.
Finally someone else posted what I said 10-15 pages back. There is no logic behind megadosing a specific vitamin that just so happens to be apart of a very co-dependant family. I'm still flabbergasted with some of the dosages shared. I'm hoping you guys grow your hair back eventually. At the same time though hopefully people came through here and saw what not to do.
I'm from Hongkong, has been living herein the northern part of Canada for over 25 years.
It is lack of sunshine here most of the time and I totally forgot about the vitamin D from sunshine, since my son can't take lactose since birth, he has been drinking soy milk till 2 years old then totally quit milk and related product.So he is definitely lack of Vitamin D from start. Accutane works wonder on the 1 st round at age 15, but he only took it about a month at high doge and stopped because of pain of his spinal. but it heals up wonderfully only taking it for a month then he continue with antibiotic. however it didn't work that well and acne came back, changing with different creams and antibiotic totally destroy his disgestive system, Retin A destroyed his face totally to a point that no more hope butput him back on Accutane at age 19, again only works a short period of time and got dirreahea for over a year.
the 3rd round didn't work at all. It could be he doesn't have any vit. d storage in his system anymore, since vit. A works with vit. D, and he has been asked to avoid the sunshine for so many years while taking Accutane and retin A and even BP.
My son study Biochemistry at university, he said his profession ask them a question today, He said you need to put patient cholesterol drugs to stoptheir body converting foodtocholesterol if they are in high level, But the side effect will be very tired since they stop producing engery from foodwhile taking the drug. So the question is what will you give the patient to give them engery. Answer is give them Co-Q10, But Co-Q10 will give you some other side effect and so on and so on. what will you give them next??
The problem from today's medical training is totally non-sense.
you just need to ask the patient to lower their fats/fast/bad food intake for a couple weeks to months, do some more exercise and for sure your cholesterol level can be improved. Today's doctor only fix your symptoms not your root problem.
I was so mad to myself not noticing this problem earlier and has been trusting the doctor for so many years.
I still can't believe how stupid we are to put children in such a dangerous drugs for Acne.
one more thing I want to mention, anitibotic deplete biotin, biotin interrelat magnesium, phosphate, b12, high level of biotin give you low blood sugar.depletes magnesium, , however B5 give you high blood glucose which will increase canidia problem. Biotin deficiency will give you dermatitis seborrheic, increase hair oil production and itchy scalp, rashes.
it is very difficult to measure magnesium level from blood, since 60% store in Bone, 40% store in muscles and organs.
since biotin and magnesium work together, taking biotin won't help if you are low in magnesium. magnesium deficientcannot make vit. d, which will give you vit. d. deficient. Vit. D increase your testosterone level too.
so we need a balance diet. eat more magnesium food from raw spinah, fish, avocados,,.whole grains, bananas etc. etc. willhelp a lot. I do not recommend to take biotin supplement however, our friendly bacteria can produce on their own. unless you are lackof them.
I bought one of those:Water Spray
I fill it with filtered tap water and then add 5 drops of lavender oil and 3 drops of Emu Oil.
Been using it daily on my hair and scalp for two weeks. Highly recommend it, my hair looks and feels great.
Also use it instead of shampoo as I use no product in my hair.
I still think it is the toxin build up inside the body from B5,it has been 28 days since stop taking from B5. his hair return back to normal now.
( although itlooks thinner from before, not sureif the lost will grow back )the restreturn back to normal now from the weird looking ( stand up like a straw). Since he ate lots of raw vegetable and fruits the last couple weeks, I think it helps flush out the toxins may be? I am not sure but this is the only changed on diet.
Well I'm still losing hair, I started B5 when I was 21 and quit when I was 24 (yes that was way too long but it worked for my skin and I didn't notice the hair loss for a while). Towards the end I was only on 500mg a day but that's still too much.
I'm 27 now and my hairline is receded about 2 inches, and it seems to have been roughly that way for a while. It isn't going fast but it's still going, I would be really happy just keeping what I have because I can still style it and look good.
On 1/27/2016 at 3:14 AM, New2016 said:I still think it is the toxin build up inside the body from B5,it has been 28 days since stop taking from B5. his hair return back to normal now.
( although itlooks thinner from before, not sureif the lost will grow back )the restreturn back to normal now from the weird looking ( stand up like a straw). Since he ate lots of raw vegetable and fruits the last couple weeks, I think it helps flush out the toxins may be? I am not sure but this is the only changed on diet.
Do you have any evidence for your claim that there is a build up of 'toxins' in the body from B5?
If so, what toxins?