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Saw palmetto and bita sitosterol both did nothing for me. So strange how it's effected people differently. Some guys saying there scalp itches but mine doesn't anymore although it used too. I still don't understand why people think a vitamin can cause mpb. There are females on this thread losing hair. Females don't get mpb. Most people are losing hair all over. Mpb doesn't do that. I just don't get it.
Weird that 6 months of it did nothing for Ruman but 2 weeks you have fuller hair.
Well, it looks fuller. But that is very subjective I know. I've also continued using oils on my hair, washing it with Nizoral and taking supplements.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2684510/
FYI, there is such a thing as MPB in Females. MPB=Androgenetic alopecua. For women it's called female pattern hair loss. It is also caused by androgens just like MPB.
I never lost hair all over my head. Only on the hairline, crown, side parting and top of my head. Back and sides have stayed the same
What dose were you taking? There is no difference in DHT suppression between 0.2mg and 1mg. I take 0.5 every other day or every third day. There's no need to take 1mg daily.
There is actually new alopecia areata treatments (if we do have that) which are supposed to "reverse the hair loss":
1. Tofacitinib
2. Ruxolitnib
Although I believe that I personally have MPB because I'm only losing hair on my crown at this time and DHT inhibitors seem to work. My hair line also stopped receding once i stopped Clearzine (B5).
Weird that 6 months of it did nothing for Ruman but 2 weeks you have fuller hair.
Well, it looks fuller. But that is very subjective I know. I've also continued using oils on my hair, washing it with Nizoral and taking supplements.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2684510/
FYI, there is such a thing as MPB in Females. MPB=Androgenetic alopecua. For women it's called female pattern hair loss. It is also caused by androgens just like MPB.
I never lost hair all over my head. Only on the hairline, crown, side parting and top of my head. Back and sides have stayed the same
What dose were you taking? There is no difference in DHT suppression between 0.2mg and 1mg. I take 0.5 every other day or every third day. There's no need to take 1mg daily.
I think those are propecia #'s but I was taking 1.3 G Nature's Bounty Saw Palmetto (not extract). I also noted that the extract and beta sitosteral did not resolve my hair loss (simply because for some people they just don't work).
I'm starting to think Ruman is a troll.... hair loss on the groin ? seriously.
There is actually new alopecia areata treatments (if we do have that) which are supposed to "reverse the hair loss":
1. Tofacitinib
2. Ruxolitnib
Although I believe that I personally have MPB because I'm only losing hair on my crown at this time and DHT inhibitors seem to work. My hair line also stopped receding once i stopped Clearzine (B5).
I think those are propecia #'s but I was taking 1.3 G Nature's Bounty Saw Palmetto (not extract). I also noted that the extract and beta sitosteral did not resolve my hair loss (simply because for some people they just don't work).
I'm starting to think Ruman is a troll.... hair loss on the groin ? seriously.
Haha yeh groin is a bit weird
I think it's androgenic alopecia too. Maybe taking B5 has caused it to start up in people prone to AGA.
I think if it was autoimmune it wouldn't be this gradual and with the receding hairline, crown loss etc. Alopecia areata or alopecia universalis are autoimmune hair loss disorders for example.
Technically it could also be Telogen Effluvium. But Telogen Effluvium should stop once you remove the trigger, which would be B5 or Coenzyme A.
Just because you lose hair all over the head doesn't mean you don't have MPB. Everybody has different follicular sensitivity to DHT. It's called diffuse Male Pattern Baldness. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Coenzyme A is closely linked to sex hormone production. Some quotes:
"Acne vulgaris is related to lipid metabolism as well as the sex hormones, both of which have a lot to do with Coenzyme-A. This relationship provides a reasonable ground to link up the acne process to Coenzyme-A and to investigate the pathogenesis of acne vulgaris along this line"
"As a coenzyme active in both fatty acid metabolism and sex hormone synthesis, Coenzyme-A is shared between two different metabolic processes. This is not uncommon in biochemical reactions in metabolism, where a coenzyme is often shared among a number of reactions. Coenzyme-A is arguably the most important coenzyme in the body, and when a coenzyme is involved in the metabolic process to such an extent as this, it becomes legitimate to ask if a shortage and deficiency is possible. To answer this, a brief look at the structure of Coenzyme-A is warranted.
Coenzyme-A is formed from adenosine triphosphate, cysteine, and pantothenic acid. Of these pantothenic acid is the only component that is a vitamin, and must be provided from our dietary intake. Could there be an insufficient intake of pantothenic acid resulting in a deficiency in Coenzyme-A, which would leave the body unable to cope with all the reactions, that it has to perform with that all-important coenzyme? Conventional wisdom does not think so. It is suggested that pantothenic acid, being ubiquitous, can be had from whatever kind of food that is taken in, and that there is no question as to its deficiency in our body. However, a deficiency is still possible. After all, when so many reactions are dependent on the same agent, its demand must be tremendous. Shortage under such circumstances is not entirely impossible.
The Crucial Question and the New Theory
If the question of deficiency of Coenzyme-A does come up, how does it affect acne, knowing its importance in fatty acid metabolism and sex hormone synthesis? This is the crucial question. This is where the new hypothesis on the pathogenesis of acne vulgaris is based, and this is where it diverges from conventional medical ideas. The author's proposed hypothesis for the pathogenesis of acne vulgaris is that the disease process is not caused by androgens, or any other sex hormones, but rather, the disease process results from a defect in lipid metabolism that is secondary to a deficiency in pantothenic acid, hence Coenzyme-A. Coenzyme-A, in carrying out its function efficiently both as an agent in fatty acid metabolism and an agent in androgen and sex hormone synthesis, has to be present in sufficient amounts, and anything less than sufficient will result in some compromise.
Mother Nature's Choice
Faced with the dilemma of a shortage of Coenzyme-A the body will tend to make a choice that is to the best advantage of the individual. The body does so by largely maintaining the functionally more important reaction, while at the same time slowing down the lesser important one. The choice here is a relatively simple one. Nature will seek to take care of the synthesis of hormones first, because continuation of the species depends on the development of the sex organs. Fatty acid metabolism is, for the time being, at least in part halted. Lipids start to accumulate in the sebaceous glands, sebum excretion is increased, and acne begins to appear. When there is enough Coenzyme-A in the body, however, both reactions will be well taken care of. There are enough sex hormones for the sex organs to develop. The lipids in the sebaceous glands are completely metabolized by sufficient Coenzyme-A, and there will be no unwanted lipid in the glands and little sebum will be excreted to cause acne vulgaris.
The Mystery Revealed
The mechanism proposed above may be the reason why two groups of adolescent boys both with a normal blood level of androgen may exhibit differences in the incidence of acne. The group with acne is the one that has not enough pantothenic acid in the body, whereas in the other group, pantothenic acid levels are not deficient."
You havnt burst any bubble of mine I think your wrong to keep saying it's dht related because people who read that will jump straight on fin and could potentially fuck there lives up. I've read many many threads of people taking fin and nothing happened then continue to lose hair. The smartest person on this forum said there's no possible way that b5 can cause mpb. You'll soon learn
You havnt burst any bubble of mine I think your wrong to keep saying it's dht related because people who read that will jump straight on fin and could potentially fuck there lives up. I've read many many threads of people taking fin and nothing happened then continue to lose hair. The smartest person on this forum said there's no possible way that b5 can cause mpb. You'll soon learn
But saying that our hair is an unknown variable is a lot more dangerous because at least MPB has treatments available, at least with MPB there is some hope... I'm going to get a Trichoview hair and scalp analysis next week, hopefully it will offer more insight as to what's going on.
You havnt burst any bubble of mine I think your wrong to keep saying it's dht related because people who read that will jump straight on fin and could potentially fuck there lives up. I've read many many threads of people taking fin and nothing happened then continue to lose hair. The smartest person on this forum said there's no possible way that b5 can cause mpb. You'll soon learn
But saying that our hair is an unknown variable is a lot more dangerous because at least MPB has treatments available, at least with MPB there is some hope... I'm going to get a Trichoview hair and scalp analysis next week, hopefully it will offer more insight as to what's going on.
@MrBushido Please let us know the results if you have a scalp miniaturization mapping done! That could prove you have AGA or disprove it.
@Blue09 Please link me the threads you are talking about. I hope it is not DHT related but I cannot fathom why else everybody's hairline recedes.
I do not encourage anyone to jump on Finasteride without doing their research first, I cannot stress that enough. If you leave without linking me to the threads you mentioned I will assume that you were lying.
EDIT: I read you were taking Cysteine and Methionine. Did that do anything for you?
You havnt burst any bubble of mine I think your wrong to keep saying it's dht related because people who read that will jump straight on fin and could potentially fuck there lives up. I've read many many threads of people taking fin and nothing happened then continue to lose hair. The smartest person on this forum said there's no possible way that b5 can cause mpb. You'll soon learn
But saying that our hair is an unknown variable is a lot more dangerous because at least MPB has treatments available, at least with MPB there is some hope... I'm going to get a Trichoview hair and scalp analysis next week, hopefully it will offer more insight as to what's going on.
@MrBushido Please let us know the results if you have a scalp miniaturization mapping done! That could prove you have AGA or disprove it.
@Blue09 Please link me the threads you are talking about. I hope it is not DHT related but I cannot fathom why else everybody's hairline recedes.
I do not encourage anyone to jump on Finasteride without doing their research first, I cannot stress that enough. If you leave without linking me to the threads you mentioned I will assume that you were lying.
EDIT: I read you were taking Cysteine and Methionine. Did that do anything for you?
I took Cysteine and Methionine in addition to a few others, it did a whole lot of nothing, I saw Oizo's posts on the other board, I think his situation was unique.
I'm done with this site all the old guys have left and can't be bothered to argue bout mpb anymore. Churchill good luck mate all the best hope you find a cure If I find anything I'll be sure to let you know bud.
If that's how you feel.. I was never arguing, I was only referring to my own personal situation. We really have no evidence that its much of anything at this point, considering there is so many inconsistencies
You havnt burst any bubble of mine I think your wrong to keep saying it's dht related because people who read that will jump straight on fin and could potentially fuck there lives up. I've read many many threads of people taking fin and nothing happened then continue to lose hair. The smartest person on this forum said there's no possible way that b5 can cause mpb. You'll soon learn
But saying that our hair is an unknown variable is a lot more dangerous because at least MPB has treatments available, at least with MPB there is some hope... I'm going to get a Trichoview hair and scalp analysis next week, hopefully it will offer more insight as to what's going on.
@MrBushido Please let us know the results if you have a scalp miniaturization mapping done! That could prove you have AGA or disprove it.
@Blue09 Please link me the threads you are talking about. I hope it is not DHT related but I cannot fathom why else everybody's hairline recedes.
I do not encourage anyone to jump on Finasteride without doing their research first, I cannot stress that enough. If you leave without linking me to the threads you mentioned I will assume that you were lying.
EDIT: I read you were taking Cysteine and Methionine. Did that do anything for you?
I took Cysteine and Methionine in addition to a few others, it did a whole lot of nothing, I saw Oizo's posts on the other board, I think his situation was unique.
>I'm done with this site all the old guys have left and can't be bothered to argue bout mpb anymore. Churchill good luck mate all the best hope you find a cure If I find anything I'll be sure to let you know bud.
If that's how you feel.. I was never arguing, I was only referring to my own personal situation. We really have no evidence that its much of anything at this point, considering there is so many inconsistencies
I have just ordered some N-Acetyl-Cysteine as it is the precursor to L-Cysteine. I'll add it into my protein shake which already has Methionine among other amino acids. There's not much you can do really.
In my case, thyroid was fine. Iron levels used to be low but now I am supplementing since almost a year so they should be back to normal. Adrenals were fine. Liver,kidney and stomach are fine. Hormones are fine. There's nothing wrong that a doctor can notice. The only thing you can do is get your scalp checked for miniaturization like you are doing. If your follicles are shrinking I think that would prove MPB.
It's difficult to tell whether I would have hair loss if I hadn't taken B5. I only took it for 2 weeks max and the shedding started. It's been one and a half years now. I was 17 at the time and just turned 19 now. I don't think it would be that uncommon for someone my age to start receding, I can see it in some of my friends too. It's just nobody in my family has balding. It's difficult to say what would be if.
Hey everyone,
So I got the scalp analysis done, the consultant used a microscope camera. From what he told me the areas where my hair has receded were terminally closed (no new hair will grow). It was also noted that I had scalp miniaturization around my crown, front and nowhere else on my scalp and that these areas were also oily. I have oily skin at this time due to high T levels so that made sense.
He was very confused when I told him all my hairs that I've lost have had a little white bulb on the end, he said that this should only be coming out with the hair if you physically pull the hair out of your scalp. He suggested that the large sebum buildup (the white bulb) on the scalp could be contributing to the hair loss from the B5 and that B5 may have somehow accelerated hair loss.
Otherwise, he obviously had no idea how B5 could be doing this and said that this looks like typical male pattern baldness to him.
Btw, I have no history of hair loss in my family, my dad and grandfather still have full heads of hair, my moms side, no hair loss either.
Hey everyone,
So I got the scalp analysis done, the consultant used a microscope camera. From what he told me the areas where my hair has receded were terminally closed (no new hair will grow). It was also noted that I had scalp miniaturization around my crown, front and nowhere else on my scalp and that these areas were also oily. I have oily skin at this time due to high T levels so that made sense.
He was very confused when I told him all my hairs that I've lost have had a little white bulb on the end, he said that this should only be coming out with the hair if you physically pull the hair out of your scalp. He suggested that the large sebum buildup (the white bulb) on the scalp could be contributing to the hair loss from the B5 and that B5 may have somehow accelerated hair loss.
Otherwise, he obviously had no idea how B5 could be doing this and said that this looks like typical male pattern baldness to him.
Btw, I have no history of hair loss in my family, my dad and grandfather still have full heads of hair, my moms side, no hair loss either.
Okay, that is not good news. What did he recommend to do now?
Hey everyone,
So I got the scalp analysis done, the consultant used a microscope camera. From what he told me the areas where my hair has receded were terminally closed (no new hair will grow). It was also noted that I had scalp miniaturization around my crown, front and nowhere else on my scalp and that these areas were also oily. I have oily skin at this time due to high T levels so that made sense.
He was very confused when I told him all my hairs that I've lost have had a little white bulb on the end, he said that this should only be coming out with the hair if you physically pull the hair out of your scalp. He suggested that the large sebum buildup (the white bulb) on the scalp could be contributing to the hair loss from the B5 and that B5 may have somehow accelerated hair loss.
Otherwise, he obviously had no idea how B5 could be doing this and said that this looks like typical male pattern baldness to him.
Btw, I have no history of hair loss in my family, my dad and grandfather still have full heads of hair, my moms side, no hair loss either.
What he said about the bulbs on the end of the hair is completely wrong. The bulb is normal and hair will always come out with a bulb unless it breaks. Research it.
Regarding the bulb, MrBushido was speaking about the bulb having white sebrum/skin attached to it when the hair comes out. It happens to me as well and it's due to the oily scalp which causes dandruff. When I had my scalp biopsy 3 years ago, they concluded MPB. Women can also have pattern baldness. My scalp biopsy was a little more intense in which they cut out two very small circles of my scalp and sent it to a lab to be tested. It was tested for Telogen Effluvium which my dermatologist said it was not.
I am still going with high doses of B5 kick starts MPB.
As for my hair now, I continue to shed but I believe it is slowing down. My scalp irritation and dandruff are much better which is contributing to the slow down in shedding. I am using the regimen below which has helped greatly. No itchy scalp and dandruff like I used to have. I am also using rogaine (minoxidil 5%) which is helping regrow hairs but very slowly. I really want to get on minoxidil 12.5% + azelaic acid which has shown to have substantial growth in patients but it is currently only available in the UK and is very expensive.
I am using discomfortzones regimen and hope it continues to work:
1. Psoriatrax tar shampoo. Used every day for the first two weeks, then every other day (alternating with Jason Dandruff Relief shampoo and Nizoral),
2. Colostrum Plus (2 scoops twice a day, which is 10-11 grams),
3. Scalp serum with Lavender and Rosemary oil. Apply about twice a week
Jojoba Oil: 80.6%
Castor Oil: 11.0%
Lavender Essential Oil: 3.8%
Rosemary Essential Oil: 4.6%
Thanks MrBushido, this helps prove a lot and seems to be what many us believed all along that this is typical MPB.
Hey everyone,
So I got the scalp analysis done, the consultant used a microscope camera. From what he told me the areas where my hair has receded were terminally closed (no new hair will grow). It was also noted that I had scalp miniaturization around my crown, front and nowhere else on my scalp and that these areas were also oily. I have oily skin at this time due to high T levels so that made sense.
He was very confused when I told him all my hairs that I've lost have had a little white bulb on the end, he said that this should only be coming out with the hair if you physically pull the hair out of your scalp. He suggested that the large sebum buildup (the white bulb) on the scalp could be contributing to the hair loss from the B5 and that B5 may have somehow accelerated hair loss.
Otherwise, he obviously had no idea how B5 could be doing this and said that this looks like typical male pattern baldness to him.
Btw, I have no history of hair loss in my family, my dad and grandfather still have full heads of hair, my moms side, no hair loss either.
Okay, that is not good news. What did he recommend to do now?
He told me to see my doctor and if he/she can't conclude otherwise, to start his hair loss treatment program. This news is good and bad, on one hand we have something that is common and treatment is available, and a cure is (supposedly) relatively close, but it is also not resolvable without large amounts of money or manageable without risky drugs / supplements.
Hey everyone,
So I got the scalp analysis done, the consultant used a microscope camera. From what he told me the areas where my hair has receded were terminally closed (no new hair will grow). It was also noted that I had scalp miniaturization around my crown, front and nowhere else on my scalp and that these areas were also oily. I have oily skin at this time due to high T levels so that made sense.
He was very confused when I told him all my hairs that I've lost have had a little white bulb on the end, he said that this should only be coming out with the hair if you physically pull the hair out of your scalp. He suggested that the large sebum buildup (the white bulb) on the scalp could be contributing to the hair loss from the B5 and that B5 may have somehow accelerated hair loss.
Otherwise, he obviously had no idea how B5 could be doing this and said that this looks like typical male pattern baldness to him.
Btw, I have no history of hair loss in my family, my dad and grandfather still have full heads of hair, my moms side, no hair loss either.
What he said about the bulbs on the end of the hair is completely wrong. The bulb is normal and hair will always come out with a bulb unless it breaks. Research it.
I think he was wrong about this too
Regarding the bulb, MrBushido was speaking about the bulb having white sebrum/skin attached to it when the hair comes out. It happens to me as well and it's due to the oily scalp which causes dandruff. When I had my scalp biopsy 3 years ago, they concluded MPB. Women can also have pattern baldness. My scalp biopsy was a little more intense in which they cut out two very small circles of my scalp and sent it to a lab to be tested. It was tested for Telogen Effluvium which my dermatologist said it was not.
I am still going with high doses of B5 kick starts MPB.
As for my hair now, I continue to shed but I believe it is slowing down. My scalp irritation and dandruff are much better which is contributing to the slow down in shedding. I am using the regimen below which has helped greatly. No itchy scalp and dandruff like I used to have. I am also using rogaine (minoxidil 5%) which is helping regrow hairs but very slowly. I really want to get on minoxidil 12.5% + azelaic acid which has shown to have substantial growth in patients but it is currently only available in the UK and is very expensive.
I am using discomfortzones regimen and hope it continues to work:
1. Psoriatrax tar shampoo. Used every day for the first two weeks, then every other day (alternating with Jason Dandruff Relief shampoo and Nizoral),
2. Colostrum Plus (2 scoops twice a day, which is 10-11 grams),
3. Scalp serum with Lavender and Rosemary oil. Apply about twice a week
Jojoba Oil: 80.6%
Castor Oil: 11.0%
Lavender Essential Oil: 3.8%
Rosemary Essential Oil: 4.6%
Thanks MrBushido, this helps prove a lot and seems to be what many us believed all along that this is typical MPB.
I ordered these too, still haven't got all the oils (live in Canada). I did start using the tar shampoo though and these seem to help in general, I was using denorex prior and it definetly helped with itching / slowed hair loss down
Hey everyone,
So I got the scalp analysis done, the consultant used a microscope camera. From what he told me the areas where my hair has receded were terminally closed (no new hair will grow). It was also noted that I had scalp miniaturization around my crown, front and nowhere else on my scalp and that these areas were also oily. I have oily skin at this time due to high T levels so that made sense.
He was very confused when I told him all my hairs that I've lost have had a little white bulb on the end, he said that this should only be coming out with the hair if you physically pull the hair out of your scalp. He suggested that the large sebum buildup (the white bulb) on the scalp could be contributing to the hair loss from the B5 and that B5 may have somehow accelerated hair loss.
Otherwise, he obviously had no idea how B5 could be doing this and said that this looks like typical male pattern baldness to him.
Btw, I have no history of hair loss in my family, my dad and grandfather still have full heads of hair, my moms side, no hair loss either.
Hey!
It's weird that he said your receded temples were "terminally closed". I always thought that in MPB the follicle is not closed but it just churns out thinner hair with every cycle. I still have really short peach fuzz on my recession areas.
By the way, I sometimes get the sebum with shed hairs too.
I have stopped using Finasteride. I didn't get any sides and it did help but I think it's too dangerous to test fate even though a lot of men take it for years without problems. Not really sure what to do with my pills now though.
I am considering Minox as well but I have just bought a dermaroller. There are quite a few studies which support it.
I believe the hair loss could be caused by hyperandrogenism (wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperandrogenism )
I for one have noticed increased body hair and libido/sex drive after B5.
It can be caused by hyperactive adrenals
Hey everyone,
So I got the scalp analysis done, the consultant used a microscope camera. From what he told me the areas where my hair has receded were terminally closed (no new hair will grow). It was also noted that I had scalp miniaturization around my crown, front and nowhere else on my scalp and that these areas were also oily. I have oily skin at this time due to high T levels so that made sense.
He was very confused when I told him all my hairs that I've lost have had a little white bulb on the end, he said that this should only be coming out with the hair if you physically pull the hair out of your scalp. He suggested that the large sebum buildup (the white bulb) on the scalp could be contributing to the hair loss from the B5 and that B5 may have somehow accelerated hair loss.
Otherwise, he obviously had no idea how B5 could be doing this and said that this looks like typical male pattern baldness to him.
Btw, I have no history of hair loss in my family, my dad and grandfather still have full heads of hair, my moms side, no hair loss either.
Hey!
It's weird that he said your receded temples were "terminally closed". I always thought that in MPB the follicle is not closed but it just churns out thinner hair with every cycle. I still have really short peach fuzz on my recession areas.
By the way, I sometimes get the sebum with shed hairs too.
I have stopped using Finasteride. I didn't get any sides and it did help but I think it's too dangerous to test fate even though a lot of men take it for years without problems. Not really sure what to do with my pills now though.
I am considering Minox as well but I have just bought a dermaroller. There are quite a few studies which support it.
I believe the hair loss could be caused by hyperandrogenism (wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperandrogenism )
I for one have noticed increased body hair and libido/sex drive after B5.
It can be caused by hyperactive adrenals
I thought people already got their hormones tested ? I have noticed these too, i was previously feeling fatigued after using saw palmetto, now my body is in overdrive again and i can stay awake for days unable to sleep. My hair receded while on B5 and those areas were completely wiped