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Microneeding Needling The Derminator Dermastamping Thread - all things microneedling

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It seems to me that quite a few of us are using OwnDoc's Derminator device so I thought we might benefit from a dedicated thread to share experiences and help each-other out.

I'd like to ask how everyone makes use of the timer function? As cool of a feature as it is, I don't understand how to make best use of it... unless I'm missing something. You can enter the dimensions of an area you want to needle, and it tells you how long it will take on each speed setting (slow, medium, fast) but how do you start it off on the needle length that you would like to use? For example, if you wanted to use 1mm, as far as I can tell - you have to quickly navigate your way up to that length during which time the countdown is ticking down and you are losing time. My way around it is to see how long it recommends and then run the device manually so that it doesn't stop after x amount of time. This however involves setting your own timer with a few seconds longer so that you know when to stop or it relies on you counting the seconds in your head yourself. Not ideal, but the best solution I can come up with. But like I say, maybe I'm missing something...

Don't know about anyone else but I don't find pain an issue, but I have only been using the fastest setting so perhaps that is probably what helps in this respect. However, what I don't get is that you are seemingly supposed to move the device around in gentle circular motions during treatment whichever speed setting you are using, but should this really be the case? For example, you're going to get a lot more pricks in the skin closer together using a faster setting than you would on a slower setting, and cover a lesser area. Better for targeting specific scars I guess.

Do you folks go by the timer recommendations or use your own best judgement? Even when I'm following the timer's recommendations, it still all feels a bit like guesswork to me.

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Good idea for a thread. I just quickly cycle to the desired depth. You're only losing 1-2 seconds so I figure it's not that big of a deal. Once it's on my skin then I increase the speed (that way I lose less needling than doing speed first, depth second). I know it's probably not the best design. They should let you pick speed and depth, then start the timer.

I also don't mind the pain too much. I use 2.25 for my cheeks, 1.75 for my temples and 1.25 for my forehead. My cheek and temple scars are very localized so I don't need to needle that large of an area. I do a small area of my forehead because of a very deep wrinkle line.

I've done it about 5-6 times in the past 4 months. It's hard to say how much % improvement I see because I have combined it with 2 subcision/suction procedures and a couple Pico lasers.

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1 hour ago, d00little said:

Good idea for a thread. I just quickly cycle to the desired depth. You're only losing 1-2 seconds so I figure it's not that big of a deal. Once it's on my skin then I increase the speed (that way I lose less needling than doing speed first, depth second). I know it's probably not the best design. They should let you pick speed and depth, then start the timer.

I also don't mind the pain too much. I use 2.25 for my cheeks, 1.75 for my temples and 1.25 for my forehead. My cheek and temple scars are very localized so I don't need to needle that large of an area. I do a small area of my forehead because of a very deep wrinkle line.

I've done it about 5-6 times in the past 4 months. It's hard to say how much % improvement I see because I have combined it with 2 subcision/suction procedures and a couple Pico lasers.

Are you saying that you have the device on your skin whilst you are navigating your way up to the desired length? Aside from the fact that I'd like to be able to just needle and manoeuvre the device around without the added distraction of pressing buttons on the machine, I'd have reservations over doing this because... if you hold the device to the air and just look at the needles coming out when you cycle through the different needle lengths, it seems as though it shoots out a lot further than the subsequent bursts. Not so much of an issue if you are using the longer needle lengths but if someone wants a relatively modest needle size, you could get one piercing at a longer needle length than you desire.

I've found that people generally don't recommend going beyond 1.0 on either the temple or forehead areas, yet know people that have and have seemingly suffered no ill-effects. Anyone else go beyond these limits? I guess if you have particularly bad scarring in these areas then what choice do you have?

Again, just to raise recommended guidelines - anything over 2mm generally means you should wait 5 weeks in between treatments so if you've done 5-6 in the past 4 months then that doesn't necessarily add up. If you needle too frequently, you run the risk of damaging the new collagen production you have set in motion. It needs time to develop into another type of collagen before it is safe to needle again.

Just to throw another question out there - how often do you folks replace or clean your cartridges? 

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1 hour ago, Paul B said:
Are you saying that you have the device on your skin whilst you are navigating your way up to the desired length? Aside from the fact that I'd like to be able to just needle and manoeuvre the device around without the added distraction of pressing buttons on the machine, I'd have reservations over doing this because... if you hold the device to the air and just look at the needles coming out when you cycle through the different needle lengths, it seems as though it shoots out a lot further than the subsequent bursts. Not so much of an issue if you are using the longer needle lengths but if someone wants a relatively modest needle size, you could get one piercing at a longer needle length than you desire.

I've found that people generally don't recommend going beyond 1.0 on either the temple or forehead areas, yet know people that have and have seemingly suffered no ill-effects. Anyone else go beyond these limits? I guess if you have particularly bad scarring in these areas then what choice do you have?

Again, just to raise recommended guidelines - anything over 2mm generally means you should wait 5 weeks in between treatments so if you've done 5-6 in the past 4 months then that doesn't necessarily add up. If you needle too frequently, you run the risk of damaging the new collagen production you have set in motion. It needs time to develop into another type of collagen before it is safe to needle again.

Just to throw another question out there - how often do you folks replace or clean your cartridges? 

I adjust the length while the device is in air, then place it onto my skin, then adjust the speed. There are only 2 buttons on the device and only 3 speeds I believe, so it is not very difficult to adjust while needling. The speed is easily determined by the sound, so there is no need to look back down at the device.

I should have added that I started at 0.5mm all around before increasing the length. At my current length I am waiting about 4 weeks between sessions.

I clean my cartridge before and after every use. First with warm soap and water, then hydrogen peroxide, then isopropyl. I am currently on my second cartridge.  Edited by d00little

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I like to stretch the skin with one hand when needling which is why I prefer not to change settings midway through due to only having two hands!

Do OwnDoc provide any guidelines on how to clean or how often to replace cartridges? When I was using a dermastamp it was simply a case of soaking it in 70% isopropyl alcohol whereas for these cartridges I think it's slightly more complicated. For example, I think I remember reading somewhere that you either shouldn't use that or something else because it can dull the needles or something like that. How much life would you say is in each cartridge? How do you tell that it's time to replace it other than perhaps starting to experience more pain?

I even seemed to get the impression that you might even want to dispose of them after one session (depending on scale and severity), but maybe I'm getting confused with single needles that are a lot thinner and bend easily etc. 

I can find detailed instructions on how to clean the motor in the event of it getting bloody but not so much on how to clean the cartridges. Maybe I'll take another look at the instruction manual...

Edited by Paul B

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My Derminator is shipping now, I also got the antioxidant mask and HA serum.

Should I needle my entire face or just the area I have scarring? I will definitely be doing my entire left side, but the scarring on my right cheeks is only on the fleshy part.

Edited by QuanHenry

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Good post beautifulambition. Maybe I will incorporate some key Derminator info such as links to demonstration videos and FAQs etc. into the first post of this topic over time.

23 minutes ago, beautifulambition said:

I only use my needles twice before throwing away

When you say that do you mean after two separate sessions or treating two separate areas? How big of an area are we talking here and on which setting? (sounds like the highest)

For someone using a lesser needle length, presumably there would be more life left in them.

The needle cartridges are pretty cheap so I guess it wouldn't hurt to buy a load a stock up. Whilst you don't want to throw them out unnecessarily early and effectively waste them, it's not such a bad idea to replace them frequently especially if it enhances your result.

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I'm not downplaying the importance of hygiene, it's more of a case of wondering if the needles had such a short life that you would in actual fact be better off disposing of them after a single session rather than bothering to clean them for use at a later date... especially if there are concerns over rusting etc.

Would be handy to be in possession of a microscope or have microscopic vision when it comes to making that determination! I think that graphic is enough to dissuade anyone from using a needle for too long! I'd like to think I've never subjected myself to anything resembling the last pic.

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@beautifulambition

Thanks for the info, that was helpful. When you use manual mode do you make a certain number of passes over an area? I have seen videos recommending 2-3 passes, though that was with the swiping technique, and I will be doing circles.

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1 hour ago, beautifulambition said:
@QuanHenry

Make as many passes as you can stand. You just don't want to punch the skin up to hamburger meat. I really focus on treating the scar areas the most for more passes. I am bloody and the prp/blood dries. You can wipe it off after it dries if you want the effects of the prp. If not you can do a smaller needle depth or just clean after. Just like fractional laser the point is to keep it moving the hand piece and hitting different fraction of the skin (making cores).
Do I take it from that that you do not so much go my the Derminator's timer as you do your own judgement?

Also, would you mind briefly describing PRP for those who are not familiar with what it is? Thanks.

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8 hours ago, ambergris said:

I needle an area until I see a bloody mess, like actual blood gushing out, not just little dots of blood.

Which setting do you use and how long have you been needling for? Have you seen results from this more aggressive approach?

Did you see little or no results from needling before starting to up the ante?

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I have been using derminator once every 2 weeks and I use 1.50 for every section for maybe 3 months and I haven't seen any improvement not saying there isn't but if there is its not enough to actually notice it and thats what we all want in the end.

also when would it be best to apply Vitamin C serum? after rolling or before

Edited by GuevaraBeats

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Rolling every two weeks is too frequent. Space it out more. Roll once per month at 2.0 or 2.25 depth. I didn't start seeing results until probably six or seven months in. 

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Yep, if using a 1.5mm length you should be looking at needling no more than once every 4 weeks if not slightly longer intervals. I know it's frustrating to have to wait even if the redness has subsided and everything looks "healed" but you need to wait. Otherwise, you are constantly undoing any good and are effectively wasting a whole bunch of time instead of speeding things along. 

7 hours ago, GuevaraBeats said:

I have been using derminator once every 2 weeks and I use 1.50 for every section for maybe 3 months and I haven't seen any improvement not saying there isn't but if there is its not enough to actually notice it and thats what we all want in the end.

also when would it be best to apply Vitamin C serum? after rolling or before

I don't think anyone has the definitive answer for this, but personally I would apply it in the days leading up to a needling session as means as prepping the skin... before resuming application 2/3 days after needling has taken place. Personally, I wouldn't want to apply it directly after needling or any time soon after that whilst the skin is in a delicate state.

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2 hours ago, beautifulambition said:
@GuevaraBeats I think I posted above all this. Vitamin C first then needle, it penetrates into skin. After you can use another serum or more. Some people this causes redness so spot try it first as it's stronger this way. I retin A either before or after my treatment as well, sometimes a HA serum. Not Retin A and Vit C do not mix. Vit C is water based and has to have other water based items if you stack them together. 
So you apply Vit C directly before needling?

OwnDoc says:

"Pre-treat your skin with vitamin C four days before rolling /needling to achieve maximum skin concentration."

Never have figured out whether they mean treat the skin four days before or for four days before.

Anyways, they also seem to push their own form of Vit C serum on you or at least encourage you to make your own and keep it refrigerated.

What type of Vit C serum do you folks use? Do you buy it from somewhere? You can get serums that also contain hyaluronic acid for example.

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13 hours ago, Paul B said:
So you apply Vit C directly before needling?

OwnDoc says:

"Pre-treat your skin with vitamin C four days before rolling /needling to achieve maximum skin concentration."

Never have figured out whether they mean treat the skin four days before or for four days before.

Anyways, they also seem to push their own form of Vit C serum on you or at least encourage you to make your own and keep it refrigerated.

What type of Vit C serum do you folks use? Do you buy it from somewhere? You can get serums that also contain hyaluronic acid for example.
Make your own. Vitamin C is very unstable and they don't have a long shelf life so many of the vitamin C sellers online will give you an oxidized serum that's no good. Always look for yellowing if so the serum is oxidized.
On May 12, 2016 at 11:36 PM, Dan34 said:

Rolling every two weeks is too frequent. Space it out more. Roll once per month at 2.0 or 2.25 depth. I didn't start seeing results until probably six or seven months in. 

there was a study on pubmed where the docs would go back and fourth with needling and doing tca peel every 2 weeks. 

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Yeah because needling and TCA do different things to your skin, and they don't interfere with each other if you do it once every two weeks. The study didn't say do needling every two weeks or TCA every two weeks. 

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what is your guys' general downtime with after stamping at 2-2.25 mm??

also, how many passes are you typically doing?

great thread, thanks for all the info

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18 hours ago, Dan34 said:

Yeah because needling and TCA do different things to your skin, and they don't interfere with each other if you do it once every two weeks. The study didn't say do needling every two weeks or TCA every two weeks. 

I see, would you say applying Retin A after needling is better than Vit C?

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@beautifulambition

Just read your edited post about PRP. Thanks.

However, not sure I get it. It's not something I'm clued up on and it almost sounds to be like you are just spreading your own blood about as a means of helping to regenerate.

Feel free to explain by way of links for further reading. Thanks.

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What is the preferred technique for needling? Do you guys do circles or strait up and down swipes?

Still waiting for my derminator as Im in the US.

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Thats what I was planning to do, but they seem to prefer swiping motions in clinics. Circles seem better.

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i just got the derminator. if you do the circles, are you just using the clock feature to know how long to do it for? or is there a method for how long to do it? trying to figure this all out...

also, are you guys doing the needling dry? or do you put something on the face to help gliding while needling?

Edited by BlueDog88

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