Hi Sword and Hopefulskin.

 

It sounds like You are both in the same boat that I've been in for the past few years. I'm not Asian. I'm a mix of Irish, German and Native American (my grandfather is 100% Cherokee).

 

Woah! I'm a mix of Irish, German, and Cherokee (my grandmother is 100%). Do you look anything like me? Nobody can ever guess my ethnic background. Back when I was still dark, before I started compulsively avoiding sunlight (because I'm irrationally afraid of aging, not because it'll do anything to me), they often thought I was Hawaiian. Lord knows what they think now.

The risks were greatly downplayed by all 3. Before the surgery I was the only one who really noticed my scarring. Afterwards, strangers stopped me to ask what had happened to my face.

 

Hi scar_search2,

I am sorry about what you went through as I can identify with your experience. I was mentally paralysed for months too. Most "doctors" who charge thousands of dollars for such risky procedure are obviously interested in profit than our welfare. The government should step in to prevent more people from getting hurt.

Like you, I pretty much have given up hope I will ever look normal again. Which is not to say I am pessimistic, I just want to maintain a realistic outlook. Reading your story gives me a little hope though, maybe years from now, I too will loose the redness and demarcation will be less evident.

I am done with vBeam for now as 3 treatment didn't significantly reduce the redness. I may give IPL a try later this year, I will also try bleaching surround area to soften the demarcation a bit. Otherwise I just live healthy with good nutrition and physically conditioning. I am also learning to carry myself without depending on my appearance. I am determined to overcome the disfigurement caused by dermabrasion with courage and inner strength.

Thank you very much for sharing your story, insight and encouragement . I wish the best for you.

 

Woah! I'm a mix of Irish, German, and Cherokee (my grandmother is 100%). Do you look anything like me? Nobody can ever guess my ethnic background. Back when I was still dark, before I started compulsively avoiding sunlight (because I'm irrationally afraid of aging, not because it'll do anything to me), they often thought I was Hawaiian. Lord knows what they think now.

 

I have light brown hair, green eyes and no goatee. Oh, and I'm a girl. Other than that we could be twins... lol.

I think Johnny Depp is the same mix. His grandfather was also Cherokee. He's the only other person besides you that I've heard of with the same background.

I'm big on sun avoidance, too. I've always been a bit of a vampire, though. I'm awake all night and sleep late. My Cherokee grandfather has great skin. My Irish grandmother, not so much.

Hi blotchy_asian

 

 

If that's true, then it was Y's (I refuse to call him a doctor) ethical responsibility to refuse to perform the procedure on you guys.

 

 

I had pore scars all over my face (still do but less apparent now). Its ironic that I suffer full face discoloration now because I only hated the scars on my nose, didn't care much about the rest on my face. I think hopeful had minimal scarring to begin with. Knowing my result is not a freak or isolated accident, I share the same opinion about Y. A big life lesson learned at a hefty price, and I'm not talking about money although $4500 is not exactly cheap.

 

 

I really hope neither of you feel like it's your fault, like "oh, if I could only turn back time....". It was Y's medical duty to warn you of the serious risks, and imo, not perform the procedure at all on you.

 

 

Thanks blotchy, thats very thoughtful of you. That's exactly how I felt during my many months of depression, I kept blaming myself for making a bad decision that devastated me and my loved ones. Now I've accepted that I totally misplaced my trust. If I was religious I would say this is how god test and train our wills. Since I'm not religious, I can only say sometimes shit happens and you gotta rise above it and move on.

 

I read your other messages, I understand you got your redness from retina and other prescriptions ... but how did you get demarc line??

 

Hey Blotchy_Asian,

Thanks for your post...

 

Yes, Asian patients who have pigment types IV or V+ should be seriously warned about the risks of dermabrasion. It's not okay to somewhat lessen mild to moderate scars and bring about freakish new problems. Demarcation lines do not look natural by any means, unlike some rolling scars. It could make anyone feel they're no longer "normal". One can state, "But you wanted your scarring to diminish, you never mentioned you didn't want a really red face for life, or a line that looks like you're wearing a mask!!"

 

For me, unfortunately, I have extra scarring as well... one that is raise hypertrophic (little more than a inch long) and a few ice picks where there were absolutely nothing before. So in this case, that above statement can't even be inserted. Whatever!!

 

About what you mentioned, I'll take it to heart and avoid UV for now. Thanks for that advice. I felt similarly and only allowed the upper part of my face which has healed fine, to see some sun. The demarcation line is near my jawline where there are countless problems, so it hasn't been exposed to UV yet.

 

By the way, what pigment type are you and did your demarc line fade almost completely?

Thanks again,

-H

[\quote]

 

Hi Sword and Hopeful, I been offline for a bit (good for me!) so sorry for the late reply. How are you guys?

To answer some of the above questions....

My demarcation line is like this: from neck and down my skin is pale yellow, but my face is (at best) light pink or pink/pale, like the face color of blond caucasians. If you look at my profile, the face and neck are two distinctly different colors starting a little above the jawline. The awful thing is, I have a 1inch by 1/2 inch area of normal colored skin right on my nose bridge! So when my face is red, there is that one spot of white right in the center.

 

As for how I got it, I think it was a mix of retin-a, BP and overexposure to sun and general bad skin care and diet. Unlike you guys, my demarcation line did not happen overnite. Mine was literally was the cumulation of years of bad treatment. So honestly, I can't pinpoint the exact reason.

 

About a year ago, the demarc line got really obvious ALL the time. Before, there were better days and even good days, but then it all became one bad day after another. I think, though I can only guess, it was triggered by a sunburn followed by a visit to the stupid derm who gave me a precscription that made me break out majorly and it was all downhill from there.

 

At that point, I had to do something about it. I messed with my skin care (now I keep things simple, wash and go, and maybe moisturize if weather is very dry), my diet, looked up all the rosacea triggers. And as I said before, my face is still far from normal, but now at least I HAVE good days where I look *relatively* normal. I'm still working on, sun avoidance and rosacea triggers being my main path of self-treatment. Thus far, those are the only things that helped at all. Anyway, like you guys, this whole experience has changed my personality and whole outlook on life.

 

 

I have light brown hair, green eyes and no goatee. Oh, and I'm a girl. Other than that we could be twins... lol.

 

I think Johnny Depp is the same mix. His grandfather was also Cherokee. He's the only other person besides you that I've heard of with the same background.

 

I'm big on sun avoidance, too. I've always been a bit of a vampire, though. I'm awake all night and sleep late. My Cherokee grandfather has great skin. My Irish grandmother, not so much.

 

That's terrific. I never knew that about Johnny Depp. One of my sisters looks similar to Jennifer Lopez, one looks exactly like Pocahontas, and the other is still too young to really look like anybody. All are gorgeous with perfect skin. Both my mother and my father have great skin. My mother especially still looks like she's in her late 20s even though she's 45, and my father would look much younger if not for the fact that his hair and mustache are gray. My descent is probably a little bit different, because my mother is almost completely Irish. My Cherokee grandmother also seems to have great skin, many moles but no real visible wrinkles until you get right up on her, which is fairly impressive considering she's over 60 now. The only person in my family that seemed to have much skin trouble is my dad's younger brother, who also has acne scars, much worse than I do. I guess I just drew the short end of the stick on that one, but it's fair because I'm much smarter than anyone in my family and used to be a terrific runner until I developed lung problems. Also, many of them have drug and alcohol problems, which I've never suffered from. Better acne than lifelong addictions.

Hi BA,

It has been 13.5 months since my dermabrasion, I just had a 360% check of my face using two mirrors and the weird red mask is not going anywhere. "No one ever get stuck with redness" is B.S. in capital letters. I can easily name 3 other demabrasion victims in the same situations.

Hi Sword and Hopeful ........ Anyway, like you guys, this whole experience has changed my personality and whole outlook on life.

 

Sword,

you're not using any retinoids are you (retin-a, differin, etc.)? If so, you should take a breeak from them asap, because those will keep your skin irritated. Does your skin still feel more sensitive than before the dermabrasion?

Sword--

Even though you and I have had very different experiences with (and therefore different opinions of) Dr. Y, I wish you continued healing and peace of mind. I know I've said this before, but from your photos, I really think your skin looks very nice. I don't say this to undermine how you feel, but to let you know that your skin may not look as bad to others as it does to you (this is something I have heard from many people and for many years, but somehow, I think I've only recently really been able to digest and accept this concept). I also know that the camera doesn't always capture everything.

Also, have you ever considered using a fake tanner to help even out the tone? My sister uses Paula's Choice tanner, which is supposed to be good for warmer tones (more yellowy than orangey or pinky), and she really likes it.

BTW, I am also a quarter Indian (Cherokee and Choctaw) with a little Irish for good measure (In addition to Italian and French)

BTW.2 Femina--why is your login "woman is evil"? Just curious.

Leopolda

SS2,

Thanks for the advice. I only wash, moisturize and go. However I use triluma (bleach + retinoid + cortisone) 3 times a week, on the surrounding undermabraded skin, hoping it will somewhat reduce the pigmentary contrast.

Yes the skin is many times sensitive than before. A lot of triggers can make my face turn bright red in seconds.

leo,

I am not beating myself up again, I stopped doing that a while ago. Texture wise my skin look slightly better than before. My problem is much bigger than scarring: Mismatch skin tone and visible demarcation line that runs down my jaw lines to the bottom of my chin. When the wind blows up my hair you can see the patches of dark skin right below my hairline. Some people I meet or deal with do pay attention to these abnormalities, this is what I have to live with, everyday, at work or at play. A 8 year old girl actually asked me why there is a line under my jaw and my face is red. I told her I burned my face and this is the aftermath.

My opinion of Y is not solely based on my experience, it is formed by correlating with experiences of dolmal, kip and hopeful. Whether Y's procedure helped others is not relevant, the important thing is the risks is greatly downplayed for our skin type at the consultation. Individually, each were told that the complication we suffer is very rare. My complications and Dolmal's were never mentioned at Hopeful's consultation, although Y was well aware of our situations.

Of course, I would be naive to believe we are the firsts to suffer with rosacea and servere hypopigmentation in Y's 30+ years of practice. The four type IV people from such a small group had dermabrasion with Y in less than one year. I wonder about the experience of other past darker skin Y patients who never heard of ACNE.ORG.

So, I have a real problem when Y told me I was his only patient suffering persistent redness and severe hypo pigmentation. That's denial of responsibility, laughable damage control, and most of all insult to our intelligence. I am sure he wish we lived in silos and never contacted each other.

Y suggested the use of make up or sunless tanner to hide the demarcation. After the first few months post dermabrasion I was absolutely sick of covering my face with any cosmetic, even sunless tanner. It didn't help and brought me even more humiliations. I look abnormal but it doesn't mean I have to hide. Sorry I know you mean well regarding self tanner, I appreciate it.

Thanks for sharing your insight and your good wishes. I'm glad you did not suffer complication. Y is very charming (even charmed me!!!) and he did help you, so I understand how you and some others feel about him. Take care.

Sword,

I guess that the pulsed dye laser (VBeam) didn't help much in terms of reducing the redness. Only guess I can think of is that with conservative settings, the laser did not do enough damage to the blood vessels. That is, without bruises, the results are expected to be somewhat limited. I just had my third VBeam treatment (with the highest power setting this time) so the bruises may last a little longer. Unlike my first treatment, the second VBeam treatment was totally not effective at all because the doctor selected a conservative setting.

hi i was wondering if dermabration works well on noticeable scars that are level with the skin? im so depressed.

lunar,

These were the settings used on me. Do you know how much power was used on you in your 3 treatments?

1st treatment: 10 mm / 10 ms / 7.0 jules for full face

2nd treatment: 10 mm / 10 ms / 7.5 jules for jawline, 7.0 for rest of face

3rd treatment: 10 mm / 10 ms / 7.5 jules for full face

The doctor was reluctant but I pushed for the 0.5 increase in #2 and #3. Probrably not nearly enough, but she fears damage from higher power will destroy any residual melanocytes that survived the dermabrasion. At $460 a pop it is expensive for so little result, I decided to stop and wait a year to see if there is any measurable difference.

Please keep me posted on your result after the brusing is gone. Thanks.

has anyone here not with asian skin been satisfied with dr. y's dermabrasion. i am seriously considering a spot treatment (just the forehead area) and wanted to get other ppl's opinion.

portlandboy and a few other people that i've noticed had the procedure done and were posting here last year don't visit this site anymore, so any info would be greatly appreciated.

BTW, I am also a quarter Indian (Cherokee and Choctaw) with a little Irish for good measure (In addition to Italian and French)

 

BTW.2 Femina--why is your login "woman is evil"? Just curious.

 

Leopolda

 

I prefer the translation "women are wicked," which doesn't have the same moral connotations as "evil." I don't suppose I have any good reason other than my experience of women as being wicked.

Hi Sword,

Long time since you posted on this thread. How are things?

Anyhow, I was talking with a colleague, and he stood up to illustrate a point while I remained sitting down, so I was looking right up under his chin. I realized that he had a demarcation line between the area under his chin and his face (so essentially the neck and face). His face was at least 1 to 2 shades lighter than the underside of his chin, which was a dark yellow to medium brown color. I definitely would not have noticed had I not been so involved in my own coloration issues, and I've never noticed it before. So perhaps where redness is NOT involved, the demarcation line is not as noticeable?

My redness comes and goes these days. I ate v. little for a week and my redness was much improved till i was almost happy with it. But of course I lvoe to eat and can't go on like that for an extended period of time. Yeeeesh. Can't ever win can we?

BA

Thanks for the update BA.

Believe it or not, my work place has a human right policy but it does stop some people from staring and laugh and say nothing.

I have almost gotten to the point that it doesn't bother me. It is true I wear an ugly dermabrasion mask, but they are the handicapped ones by discriminating others by appearance. I must admit every once in a blue moon they get through my skin and make me feel unwelcomed, when that happens I remind myself by counting the friends I made after the dermabrasion disaster.

Otherwise I concentrate on my loved ones, developing my career and working hard at the gym everyday, basically living my life.

As far as color goes, dermabraded skin is still red. The redness is more pronounced in some lighting than other but its always there. I think if there was no redness it won't be as noticeable, but the shiny texture and hypopigmentation color will not be mistaken.

Not sure why eating very little affect your redness, but your health and love of food must come first!! I notice some people have different face color (darker or redder) than their neck, but I never saw color tranistion as adrupt and unnaturally looking as mine. I bet your demarc does not end in a perfect curve unless you used a ruler to apply the acne med?

Take care.

Hi Sword,

Long time no speak... just to update, I'm now approaching my 10 month post dermabrasion...

Trying to stay strong, but even now, I keep referring back to what I was doing and how I was this time last year... hmm, I was graduating from Columbia University with my masters at this time last year. My face had no makeup on except lip gloss for my graduation day and people said how great I looked. Of course, when you have head problems, how can you believe anyone's compliments, right?

As mentioned before, my forehead and nose got most of its color back. However, the jaw/lower cheek is still very light in contrast to my neck. The demarcation line is very evident on the left side. The worst part is the bright red patches on my lower cheeks and new hypertropic scarring (the size of a quarter). It pains me to see it every morning before I cake my makeup on (which doesn't really help the raised scars or the new ice pick scar that looks like I scratched my chin with my fingernail...).

Still, I have not been able to put my hair back -- not even ONE day so far. The demarcation line is so evident that I leave my hair draped around my whole face. It looks strange sometimes because I look like some hippy, but I can't get myself to let people see it yet... atleast not yet.

Well, I'm glad to hear you're still charging forward with life. I'm trying to do the same : )

-Hopeful

Hey Hopeful,

My right demarcation is also very evident. It looks like I had a face transplant except the skin tone is mismatched. Dr Yarborough did not feather the line on my right jaw, there is no blending at all, just a sharp line dividing the 2 colors and textures. What's worse is the line does not even go behind my real jaw line. This is my main source of humiliation.

If I had a spot dermabrasion I will still have demarcation, but it would have just localized on a spot or section of the face. A full face dermabrasion moves the demarcation to the jaw and hair line, but the result is much more disasterous, essentially creating a mask. The only benefit of a full face dermabrasion is for the doctor, because he charges the fee for a full face instead of spot.

Last weekend I use 2 mirrors to check my color under indoor (yellow light and floresent light) and sun light (morning, noon and afternoon). Sometimes it is the redness that accentuate the mask, sometimes it is the pigmentary difference, sometimes it is the shiny texture.

So that's my detail update 15 months post dermabrasion. It is not pretty, sometimes heart-breaking to look at, but I try to shine through the damaged shell, I know you, Kip and Dolmal are too.

Take care and Keep in touch,

Sword

I bet your demarc does not end in a perfect curve unless you used a ruler to apply the acne med?

 

Take care.

 

that brought a chuckle (so rare these days, alas).

I don't have a demarc line so much as a region, so u're right there. I'm not sure why eating little or little-moderate would have an effect on my coloring either. I didn't do it on purpose. It was jsut that week i was busy and heartbroken, so I ended up eating very little.

I don't want to jinx anything, but I think my skin has improved somewhat in the past 3 weeks when I have totally avoided the sun. Now, when I look at myself in profile, the redness region are centered more on my cheeks and chin, which is something I can deal with. The redness also has faded somewhat to a sorta pink. It's not peaches and cream pink, more like dirty pink, but heck, it's alot better than raspberry red. This is also in combination with a low-fat healthy diet, and I been working out alot. Urrrrg...please let me not regress. My pores are still sooo huge it's ridiculous.

Do you notice anytime at all that the redness is not there, even if it's for a short time? You mentioned you don't like wearing makeup. What about wearing some blending/covering cream on your neck (not on your face), just to smooth out the demarcation line so it's not so abrupt? I agree wearing makeup is not only icky for a guy (i'm a girl and I don't like to wear it), but it's also bad for the face skin.

But take heart Sword, from your picture, you look perfectly handsome and you ahve amazing bone structure. AND your skin is smooth, so at least Yarborough didn't take that away from you.

sword, I pm'd you something that might help!

Thanks tricia. I just pm'ed back.

BA,

I hope you feel better this week. That's really good news, that means you have some control of your redness. Sounds like you are taking care of yourself too, thats good.

My face was never red before the dermabrasion, now it is always red. The redness is more prononced under some lighting than others.

Thanks for your suggestion for camofluaging the neck. I don't put any stuff on my face or my neck because I won't have to worry about it melting and sticking to my clothes, or looking fake. Yarborough told me covering cream makes the demarcation and redness undetectable. I would like to see him wear it himself.

In person there is no mistake that I wear a unnatural looking, permanent red mask of much lighther pigment. Trust me people do notice it and some abuse it. My social and work life is much less pleasant than it used to be. Luckily I have learned that I am not any less normal than others as a person, no humiliation can take away the dignity I deserve.

Thanks BA and take care.

Sword, Hopeful, how are you guys?

I don't know if i am fooling myself or it's a trick of lighting, but I've had a slight but rather shocking improvement in my skin. Almost exactly a year ago, I "burned" the skin on my right cheekbone - what happened was that i saw a red spot coming up so I thought i'd be proactive and kill it dead before it surfaces. I slapped like a fingerful of my acne med on that one spot. The next day, the spot was bigger and redder, even redder than the rest of my face and that's saying something (a year ago, I was VERY red, like this but i wasn't smiling or crushing on anyone). The next day I got questions and comments regarding that spot. Eventually, after a month, the ultra-redness of that spot faded, except the whole area was kind of indented and a shade darker than the rest of my face. In another two months, the indent went away. But what was left was huge pores, huge even for me. The patch of my skin on the right cheekbone was distinctly different in terms of pore size from the left cheekbone skin. Anyway, I thought this was pretty much permanent.

BUT....two weeks ago, i was obsessively researching my skin and I realized the pores on my right cheek bone is looking somewhat normal (for me). I looked at it in two different kinds of lights since my bathroom lighting is notoriously kind. Anyhow, I was looking at my face again in my office lighting where I look pretty crap usually, and I *think* they do look better. So this slight improvement took around a year and lots of careful sun avoidance. Even so, I'm feeling almost optimistic (for me).

So... . I guess the moral is that eventually our skin *might* heal itself? It will just take a long long time, and I'm thinking years, and lots of careful sun avoidance and product awareness ( I only use purpose now). Dermabrasion is of course much more invasive and damaging than burning myself with a topical, but perhaps there is the chance that it too may heal. Anyway, hope I have not jinxed myself

ho hum. So yeah, I took a GOOD look under some heavy duty flurescent light. So the pores SEEEM to have improved, whereas the area seems seems somewhat darker than the other side. Though that *may* be lighting.