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Fillers are best to correct depth now we can focus the surface. Aggressive methods for surface are. You can get a sub but its not too bad now but its just the skin quality that needs improvement
Dermabrasion
deep phenol peel
full ablation Co2
full ablation erbium
btw since you are Asian have you considered pigment safe abrasion methods ? I have seen dr h use full ablation co2 on dark color Fitzpatrick 6
or dr rullan deep peel
. Since it's very skill dependent I don't know who to go to now. 
I just found another doc and he said I can expect a 10% improvement and repeat it in a year.
It sounds like he doesnt go deep though, because I'll be on a topical numbing cream during the procedure. And his assistant said I'll be pink for several weeks, but the other users on here said they were pink for a year.
Did your doc use the diamond dermabrasion or a wire brush?
8 hours ago, dirigo39 said:I just found another doc and he said I can expect a 10% improvement and repeat it in a year.
It sounds like he doesnt go deep though, because I'll be on a topical numbing cream during the procedure. And his assistant said I'll be pink for several weeks, but the other users on here said they were pink for a year.
Did your doc use the diamond dermabrasion or a wire brush?
I don't know why some get 80% others get 10% to be honest, but maybe it's that my doc went deep and my icepicks healed super well and other scars don't do as well. I just don't know. My doc went as deep as that other person that took months and months to heal. So maybe some go deep others don't. Of course you don't want to go so deep that it messes with layers.
I don't know to be honest. I was a stupid kid that just picked any procedure that was pumped at the time and got lucky. I honestly have no clue what instrument he used. He's long retired (5 years) so I couldn't even ask. I wish I could be more helpful but even if I guessed it would be a total guess. It was done in the early 2000s so if they used something more often back then that might offer a hint.
Some part of me wants to say diamond dermabrasion simply because I remember the brochure that day and this really ugly drawing of a man with a diamond dermabrasion tool. So maybe that.
The derms are nothing but scammers, the thing is it is a for profit business model. So the longer they dont fix the problem the more likely you are to com back. I can compare this to a freelance website if you pay by work once it is done I hardly reach those person back. Meaning future lost revenue. So by design doctors are encouraged to not use the most effective treatment.
here is what I think the most effective treatments are, sure there are risk but the moment we got acne scars we were screwed.
If you want to spend time for scar revision
*Go for tca or phenol cross. Might require many sessions.
*fractional lasers co2 preferred.
For aggressive nuking area options:
full ablative co2 laser
dermabrasion depends how deep the dr goes.
punch excision ( Not suitable if you have lot of dents in the face or can target the really bad ones. This wouldnt give overall improvement but will be happy seeing that bad scar gone)
Taylor liberator
phenol chemobrasion acid percentage matter ask dr rullan what percentage he will use for Fitzpatrick darker he likely doesnt use deep enough which means less results which explains why some patients have seen only 20 percent but have paid the full price.
At the end this should fix 60 to 80 percent to what we see in normal light. It wont be perfect per se. that is where acceptance should come in.
2 hours ago, getsmart121 said:The derms are nothing but scammers, the thing is it is a for profit business model. So the longer they dont fix the problem the more likely you are to com back. I can compare this to a freelance website if you pay by work once it is done I hardly reach those person back. Meaning future lost revenue. So by design doctors are encouraged to not use the most effective treatment.
here is what I think the most effective treatments are, sure there are risk but the moment we got acne scars we were screwed.If you want to spend time for scar revision
*Go for tca or phenol cross. Might require many sessions.
*fractional lasers co2 preferred.
For aggressive nuking area options:
full ablative co2 laser
dermabrasion depends how deep the dr goes.
punch excision ( Not suitable if you have lot of dents in the face or can target the really bad ones. This wouldnt give overall improvement but will be happy seeing that bad scar gone)
Taylor liberator
phenol chemobrasion acid percentage matter ask dr rullan what percentage he will use for Fitzpatrick darker he likely doesnt use deep enough which means less results which explains why some patients have seen only 20 percent but have paid the full price.
At the end this should fix 60 to 80 percent to what we see in normal light. It wont be perfect per se. that is where acceptance should come in.
What about cannula subcision / cannula subcision with filler?
10 hours ago, Gelko said:What about cannula subcision / cannula subcision with filler?
They might give improvement but I have to agree with dr h, logically doesnt make sense to use cannula. If the same force can cut tether it will cut nerves as well and if the goal was to cut then why not use Taylor liberator
Just got dermabrasion. The dermabrasion itself was fast, only 10 minutes-ish. Sounds like he didn't go deep then. Will post photos later.
22 minutes ago, dirigo39 said:Just got dermabrasion. The dermabrasion itself was fast, only 10 minutes-ish. Sounds like he didn't go deep then. Will post photos later.
Best of luck, but I was out for 2 hours maybe 3 as he was doing it as far as I know. I was fully sedated. Best of luck healing though, make sure to eat well as your healing from anything, vitamins, rest etc. Lots of healthy liquids.
1 hour ago, harmlessboy1441 said:Best of luck, but I was out for 2 hours maybe 3 as he was doing it as far as I know. I was fully sedated. Best of luck healing though, make sure to eat well as your healing from anything, vitamins, rest etc. Lots of healthy liquids.
It was the doc you mentioned. Anthony sparano.
Missmacay doc quoted a similar price which was lower than what she paid. So it sounds like he stopped sedating.
How long were you pink for again?
1 hour ago, getsmart121 said:Why did u choose him
He had availability June and I wanted it done.
Missmacay's doc that did her dermabrasion passed away.
I asked him if he would have gone deeper if I had type I skin and he said no. When he sees a certain layer of tissue, he stops.
We'll see...they gave me pain meds, but I feel fine.
1 hour ago, dirigo39 said:He had availability June and I wanted it done.
Missmacay's doc that did her dermabrasion passed away.
I asked him if he would have gone deeper if I had type I skin and he said no. When he sees a certain layer of tissue, he stops.
We'll see...they gave me pain meds, but I feel fine.
I was thinking maybe you should have tried full ablation co2, erbium or both. Since it much precise. The strong lasers are ultra pulse co2 laser and sciton erbium laser. And dermabrasion if this fails. As we are depending on manual skill of the doctor. But I hope it still works for you. The thing is when most compare with dermabrasion is they compare it with fractional laser.very poor record in giving substantial improvement in acne scars in single session. If you want the right comparison you have to compare full ablation co2 vs full ablation erbiumvs phenol chemobrasion vs dermabrasion which is highly variable on depth gone by doctor. Now we are comparing apples with apples.
9 hours ago, dirigo39 said:It was the doc you mentioned. Anthony sparano.
Missmacay doc quoted a similar price which was lower than what she paid. So it sounds like he stopped sedating.
How long were you pink for again?
Hm I see. I never went to him but yeah as far as I know he does it and years ago the general things he does looked better than most. There's another doctor in NJ that does it just from researching lately but not sure if he is stubborn about doing things as he wanted no part in doing anything for me but he does a ton of stuff, dermabrasion too it appears from the site.
I paid $2750 back in 04' give or take, so I'm guessing it could be $6k/$8k for a similar style Dermabrasion now.
I was red for 1-2 months, very pink for another 3-4 months, light pink for another 3-4 months. Mostly skin color by 10-13 months. I definitely remember this because I was adjusting my coming/goings.
It's the next day and it's scabbing.
I'm guessing yours looked way worse the day after.
Unfortunately I definitely think he didn't go deep enough.
1 hour ago, dirigo39 said:It's the next day and it's scabbing.
I'm guessing yours looked way worse the day after.
Unfortunately I definitely think he didn't go deep enough.
Why are you so certain he didn™t go deep enough? Though 10 minutes does sound sketch..
1 hour ago, dirigo39 said:It's the next day and it's scabbing.
I'm guessing yours looked way worse the day after.
Unfortunately I definitely think he didn't go deep enough.
No I had much different or more ablative. Basically I was bleeding for 1-2 days with it bleeding through the gauze and bandages. I had to constantly "wipe up" or wipe off the blood or oozing brown stuff but for the most part the bandages held it in.
A huge crust or scab developed on my entire two cheeks area which fell off 10-14 days later. My cheeks were red for 1-2 months and pink for the next 9-10 months. I had almost all icepicks though. It was bad enough that my insurance covered it as medically necessary, but I didn't have a ton of fat loss or any atrophy at all, just icepicks. That might've been why he could go much deeper. I personally don't know. I was sedated and asleep for 2-3 hours. I was a very young kid and maybe the doctor took pity on me and gambled and took serious effort in it, I don't know. Either way I'm thankful to him even though he sorta bungled an excision years later.
Just from looking though it does look like he "went at it" but either from a different technique or less ablative (like I said I had nothing but bandages for 7 days and they only fell off when a scab "removed' the bandages on their own. My doctor told me to let the bandages stay/bleed until scabs develop and it falls off on it's own. The difference immediately is that I was bandages my entire face/cheeks and it kept bleeding for 2 days. The scabs only came 7 days later and that's the only point at which the bandages fell off. I never had an "exposed" face before scabs basically. Whether that's indicative of the degree of ablation or technique, I have no clue.
But the guy knows what he's doing though he's got very decent resume so maybe your situation is different. I would highly doubt he did it in a wrong way, he just might need to adjust style or depth if your personal situation is applicable. There's also another doctor that I saw does dermabrasion and has a very good resume at least on paper.
If only I took a photo log back then to show, but honestly I had major ptsd and didn't even want to take pictures for the doctor and sort of wrote off it all back then. But looking back taking pictures before/after would've been great for others. I feel kind of bad now.
Please heal well and keep us informed 
They gave me a prescription for Tylenol-codeine in case I felt discomfort, but I didn't even need Tylenol.
The doc said I should be oozing a lot, but I've only had to wipe 10 times.
The erbium lasered I had burned worst than this.
When I asked how long will I be pink, he said 1-2 months. So it's definitely not what Missmacay and harmlessboy got done.
@harmlessboy1441 can you pm me that other doc's name?
2 hours ago, dirigo39 said:They gave me a prescription for Tylenol-codeine in case I felt discomfort, but I didn't even need Tylenol.
The doc said I should be oozing a lot, but I've only had to wipe 10 times.
The erbium lasered I had burned worst than this.
When I asked how long will I be pink, he said 1-2 months. So it's definitely not what Missmacay and harmlessboy got done.
@harmlessboy1441 can you pm me that other doc's name?
The dr needs to factor in your risk for pigmentation so maybe he played safe here. But anyways maybe the goal was achieved you dont have deep scars. You just have edges from acne scars.
46 minutes ago, getsmart121 said:The dr needs to factor in your risk for pigmentation so maybe he played safe here. But anyways maybe the goal was achieved you dont have deep scars. You just have edges from acne scars.
Yeah honestly that's a good point. I'm fair skin, if I was Asian or something maybe my risk for pigmentation would be higher among other things. I would see how it looks but just from scientific observation they were two different "first 10 days".
The biggest differences is I was totally RED for 1-2 months, she's pink. I had bandages take the place of my cheek skin, literally I had no skin for 14 days and scabs formed, and these super sticky bandages (two large ones, one per cheek with gauze) only fell off in increments as scabs basically nullified the stickiness. I remember like 1/4th of the bandage hanging off with a scab there, while the rest was still stuck. It was super important to not touch those bandages at all and wipe the outer over and over, until scabs formed. Then treat scabs carefully until they fell off.
So just observationally, mine and missmcay probably had similar ablatives back in the day.
But getsmart is totally right, I had nothing but tons of icepicks, you have different entirely and Asian skin. Can't compare necessarily. And doctors in early 2000s might be more versed in ancient procedures like dermabrasion vs now. Who knows. Back then every doctor sort of knew how they worked.
I remember going to this Asian old doctor that could've been like one of those old asian movie guys smoking a pipe in a dojo, who told me "you need to do like 2-3 dermabrasions to get the best results" when I complained it was "only" 80% better lol... Now in 2022 most doctors don't even want to do one. It's a striking difference in sentiment. And I think that COULD be one of the differences. My gut tells me they are trying to push lasers for 10 years and evade the risks with actual manual talent or carefulness vs a machine laser that just press and do. Basically it's more about money and ease of work, that MIGHT be it.
10 hours ago, harmlessboy1441 said:Yeah honestly that's a good point. I'm fair skin, if I was Asian or something maybe my risk for pigmentation would be higher among other things. I would see how it looks but just from scientific observation they were two different "first 10 days".
The biggest differences is I was totally RED for 1-2 months, she's pink. I had bandages take the place of my cheek skin, literally I had no skin for 14 days and scabs formed, and these super sticky bandages (two large ones, one per cheek with gauze) only fell off in increments as scabs basically nullified the stickiness. I remember like 1/4th of the bandage hanging off with a scab there, while the rest was still stuck. It was super important to not touch those bandages at all and wipe the outer over and over, until scabs formed. Then treat scabs carefully until they fell off.
So just observationally, mine and missmcay probably had similar ablatives back in the day.
But getsmart is totally right, I had nothing but tons of icepicks, you have different entirely and Asian skin. Can't compare necessarily. And doctors in early 2000s might be more versed in ancient procedures like dermabrasion vs now. Who knows. Back then every doctor sort of knew how they worked.
I remember going to this Asian old doctor that could've been like one of those old asian movie guys smoking a pipe in a dojo, who told me "you need to do like 2-3 dermabrasions to get the best results" when I complained it was "only" 80% better lol... Now in 2022 most doctors don't even want to do one. It's a striking difference in sentiment. And I think that COULD be one of the differences. My gut tells me they are trying to push lasers for 10 years and evade the risks with actual manual talent or carefulness vs a machine laser that just press and do. Basically it's more about money and ease of work, that MIGHT be it.
It's interesting you weren't able to find another doctor that would agree to give you another dermabrasion .
So most docs who actually do aggressive dermabrasion are gone now it's seems.
On 6/4/2022 at 3:03 AM, getsmart121 said:I was thinking maybe you should have tried full ablation co2, erbium or both. Since it much precise. The strong lasers are ultra pulse co2 laser and sciton erbium laser. And dermabrasion if this fails. As we are depending on manual skill of the doctor. But I hope it still works for you. The thing is when most compare with dermabrasion is they compare it with fractional laser.very poor record in giving substantial improvement in acne scars in single session. If you want the right comparison you have to compare full ablation co2 vs full ablation erbiumvs phenol chemobrasion vs dermabrasion which is highly variable on depth gone by doctor. Now we are comparing apples with apples.
I haven't met a local doc who has an CO2 attachment that allows them to shoot a steady laser to target scar edges.
Are Dr h and Dr. Taylor the only ppl we know that knows this
6 hours ago, dirigo39 said:
It's interesting you weren't able to find another doctor that would agree to give you another dermabrasion .
So most docs who actually do aggressive dermabrasion are gone now it's seems.
It sorta appears that way but I'll be honest me and the other might've just had doctors more experienced or willing to gamble more or had perfect scars for it. I mean they went seriously deep or ablative on me and the bandages I described above are totally different than having an exposed face now.
I think doctors are choosing to gamble less for self interest and patient safety maybe but also it's far more lucrative to bill 5k for a machine that is just press and go no skill or talent involved machine does everything. I think that replaced ablative dermabrasion around 2010 and doctors lost track of ablative dermabrasion and that's just my guess. My doctor is retired 6 years now. won't take calls office closed etc.
I think now it's mostly closer to micro dermabrasion masquerading as the 2000s type. Unless you're sedated for 3 hours with bleeding cheeks for two days and redness for 2 months it's not the same as me.
For the record everyone in the medical field like derms we're shocked about this type of dermabrasion. They all say that's not a typical dermabrasion. So scientifically I come to the conclusion that we we're outliers or the art and degree was significantly different in 2000s. This does anger me a bit that others don't have access or can't easily ask for it if the situation warrants because like I said I felt I got 80% improvement on depth and width versus childhood me. So this sort of angers me that it can't be reproduced onto other cases easily.