On 10/3/2020 at 6:09 AM, AcneScarGuy said:Hi guys and gals,
I hope the people here read through the exchange I have here and learnhow to apply critical thinking to unknown posters such as Vika88. I suspect this individual would need otherhelp than to fix acne scar and there are many such people around in the internet.
My advice would be to do manual treatment for the severescar and finish off with rest using laser and RF, and not at the same time.IMO, having INFINI and SUB togetheris not cost effective because INFINI can cause the tethered scar to reform during the healing process, I will try to explain in the next video if I can.
A logical thinker would realise majority of the scar would be fixed by manual process while energy treatment provide limited help. Please know that INFINI RF is more expensive than subcision treatment, and carries certainrisk. If you look through Davin Lim's videos, there is one part where he caution energy device and RF can melt fat and he said most derms listen to the company so they said it will not. The video is under micro needling in his channel.So please do your research first. I provide more proof with pictures but there is a limit to how much I can help.
Lastly, It is never a productive thing to do to argue with unknownindvidual who change his or her stance along the way and cherry pick things to argue with and try to strawman for the sake of winning, but it gave me motivation to make the next video to help this acne scar community and to reach out to more people. Thanks people!
Look man, we are all happy you see positive results from subcision, you should be happy too, i am sorry that you didnt have good results from MRF, but a lots of people have.
Yes its true - is downtime and cost of acne scars treatments worth it ?Thats a question of course , and mainly when it comes to lasers and MRF cause they cost quite a lot and mainly deal with superficial things, however they can bring good results combined with subc. There are even studies out there about this combo.
Also you re trying to invent a wheel here. We all know manual procedures comes first ( of course it depends on acne scars type ) then u move to energy devices after u lift the floor of the scar.
You or your doctor made mistake starting with Infini, u should have started withmanual procedures, thats true no doubt, but if u have been following acne.orgbefore u started your journey u d never do Infini first, this is something that has been preached by many people ( BA, Obi wan, sirius lee )for years.
No need to attack anybody because of your bad start, be glad u haveimprovement from subc and move on.
@MiroBut the thing is he can have even bigger improvement from RFM. I asked about his settings at the beginning and wrote that it's the higher energy settings that give better improvement while at the same time you've got to be careful not to go too deep. He says it himself that he only had 1 pass and it maybe was not enough. I agreed with him saying I had 3 which could also explain the results. I even wrote my settings so that he can see what works and that even at 2.2mm there's no risk of fat loss if you choose a doctor experienced with Infini who can evaluate your skin correctly. As for the fat loss I won't repeat myself anymore. Nobody's denying there's a risk, but it's controllable and not well-documented. You just had bad luck with your doctor.
I even offered to send him photos privately to ser for himself despite him being rude and aggressive because I truly believe that if he finds a good doctor and does Infini or Genius plus subsicion safely he'll see better results. I am really passionate about this combo. It's absolutely honestly handsdown the best I've had so far. My scars are still there but my skin is no longer sunken down and the scars look softer, less noticeable, kind of like freckles(though it's not a good comparison). I mean you see there's something but it's not so bothersome as before if you know what I mean. And I see them getting better every week. All I'm saying is that it would be a pity even for him and for everybody else to dismiss this combo treatment. It just gives too good results if your scars are the right type. Dr Lim, Dr Henningsen say RFMthe best tool to treat acne scars.
I am just trying to contribute with as much detail as possible. some will read it and say yeah maybe this treatment could be something for me too. others will say, no this won't work for me for whatever reason. But the more information on treatments is out there, the better. we are all hoping for positive results however small butwhen I share my positive results so far I'm put down and dismissed as liar. Just be a bit more optimistic acnescarguy and trust people more. I have no other agenda but to share my positive results and in doing so maybe to help others.
1 hour ago, Vika88 said:@MiroBut the thing is he can have even bigger improvement from RFM. I asked about his settings at the beginning and wrote that it's the higher energy settings that give better improvement while at the same time you've got to be careful not to go too deep. He says it himself that he only had 1 pass and it maybe was not enough. I agreed with him saying I had 3 which could also explain the results. I even wrote my settings so that he can see what works and that even at 2.2mm there's no risk of fat loss if you choose a doctor experienced with Infini who can evaluate your skin correctly. As for the fat loss I won't repeat myself anymore.
I even offered to send him photos privately to ser for himself despite him being rude and aggressive because I truly believe that if he finds a good doctor and does Infini or Genius plus subsicion safely he'll see better results. I am really passionate about this combo. It's absolutely honestly handsdown the best I've had so far. My scars are still there but my skin is no longer sunken down and the scars look softer, less noticeable, kind of like freckles(though it's not a good comparison). I mean you see there's something but it's not so bothersome as before if you know what I mean. And I see them getting better every week. All I'm saying is that it would be a pity even for him and for everybody else to dismiss this combo treatment. It just gives too good results if your scars are the right type.
I am just trying to contribute with as much detail as possible. some will read it and say yeah maybe this treatment could be something for me too. others will say, no this won't work for me for whatever reason. But the more information on treatments is out there, the better. we are all hoping for positive results however small butwhen I share my positive results so far I'm put down and dismissed as liar. Just be a bit more optimistic acnescarguy and trust people more. I have no other agenda but to share my positive results and in doing so maybe to help others.
Have you also had filler or only sub + genius ? And u wrote u had it 3 times ? How wereyour treatments spaced ? Once every 3 months ?
46 minutes ago, Miro said:Have you also had filler or only sub + genius ? And u wrote u had it 3 times ? How wereyour treatments spaced ? Once every 3 months ?
No I had 2 times microneedling alone. Didn't help much. Then I read good things on subcision that it's the best treatment for rolling scars. I had subcision plus filler. It helped,my scars flattened visibly.I was also offered subcision plus Infini at the time but I was afraid of fat loss at the time. It took a lot of reading on my partand talking with the doctor for me to feel comfortable with infini. I had sub plus Infini only once 4 months ago and plan to do another in November and then again in 6 months. I mean that at the first Infini treatment I had 3 passes not just one. The Dr went over my scars 3 times not just once every time with different needle length. And I think that rfm is better than just subcision because after sub plus infini I and family and friendssaw noticeable improvement, more noticeable than with every treatment before that.
If you have sub plus the new Genius it could be better in terms of results because Genius is supposed to be safer and better, but it is not widely available so I'll have to make do with Infini..
You had the Genius, right? Did you havea filler too? Subcision plus filler plus Genius?
I should also add that at the sub plus infini session I had sialine as a spacer only. No filler. It was too expensive to have it all for me. Despite not having filler with Infini I still had more improvement from Infini because at month 3 after the subcision the filler had dissolved while now I continue to see improvement every week.
1 hour ago, Vika88 said:I should also add that at the sub plus infini session I had sialine as a spacer only. No filler. It was too expensive to have it all for me. Despite not having filler with Infini I still had more improvement from Infini because at month 3 after the subcision the filler had dissolved while now I continue to see improvement every week.
Yes this the time when it gets better 4 months after , first 3 months it was weird for me , skin dry, some scars looked worse , At the end of 3 rd month it settled , 4th and 5 th month i ve seen slight improvement every week , Thats Why i Dont understand this every 6 weeks repeated treatments with MRF, but i m not doc and everyone is diff
1 hour ago, Miro said:Yes this the time when it gets better 4 months after , first 3 months it was weird for me , skin dry, some scars looked worse , At the end of 3 rd month it settled , 4th and 5 th month i ve seen slight improvement every week , Thats Why i Dont understand this every 6 weeks repeated treatments with MRF, but i m not doc and everyone is diff
That's usuallydone to maximize profit for the doctor. Some drs do it that way. My skin didn't fully settle till month 2 because of the aggressive settings. I'm having sub + Infini done at 6 months intervals. It's easier on the wallet and it also takes up to 6 months for the collagen to build and for you to fully see the results. I am really hoping to see more improvement. For now I'm more than happy. If the improvement stalls, I'll probably try some laser.
32 minutes ago, Vika88 said:That's usuallydone to maximize profit for the doctor. Some drs do it that way. My skin didn't fully settle till month 2 because of the aggressive settings. I'm having sub + Infini done at 6 months intervals. It's easier on the wallet and it also takes up to 6 months for the collagen to build and for you to fully see the results. I am really hoping to see more improvement. For now I'm more than happy. If the improvement stalls, I'll probably try some laser.
I agree , subc + energy , 6 month , Thats what i do too
18 hours ago, Vika88 said:No I had 2 times microneedling alone. Didn't help much. Then I read good things on subcision that it's the best treatment for rolling scars. I had subcision plus filler. It helped,my scars flattened visibly.I was also offered subcision plus Infini at the time but I was afraid of fat loss at the time. It took a lot of reading on my partand talking with the doctor for me to feel comfortable with infini. I had sub plus Infini only once 4 months ago and plan to do another in November and then again in 6 months. I mean that at the first Infini treatment I had 3 passes not just one. The Dr went over my scars 3 times not just once every time with different needle length. And I think that rfm is better than just subcision because after sub plus infini I and family and friendssaw noticeable improvement, more noticeable than with every treatment before that.
If you have sub plus the new Genius it could be better in terms of results because Genius is supposed to be safer and better, but it is not widely available so I'll have to make do with Infini..
You had the Genius, right? Did you havea filler too? Subcision plus filler plus Genius?
Can you get subcision and fillers together with rf microneedling? In what order are the procedures done? Won't the energy melt the filler? And lastly where did you have your treatment?
24 minutes ago, BlueMaloney said:Can you get subcision and fillers together with rf microneedling? In what order are the procedures done? Won't the energy melt the filler? And lastly where did you have your treatment?
I didn't get any filler with infini. I really don't know about what you're asking because I was asking this guy Miro but he wrote that he didn't have any filler either. Just sub plus energy.I was offered to get Sculptra for my deeper rolling scars but it's almost asexpensive as Infini where I live and you have to do it 3 times to have an effect from what I understand so I thought I should just do sub+infiny. It's a dermatology center in Moscow, Russia that I went to.
44 minutes ago, Vika88 said:I didn't get any filler with infini. I really don't know about what you're asking because I was asking this guy Miro but he wrote that he didn't have any filler either. Just sub plus energy.I was offered to get Sculptra for my deeper rolling scars but it's almost asexpensive as Infini where I live and you have to do it 3 times to have an effect from what I understand so I thought I should just do sub+infiny. It's a dermatology center in Moscow, Russia that I went to.
Sculptra can last up to 2 years in your body. I am wondering if Infini won't destroy it at your next treatment in six months?
19 minutes ago, BlueMaloney said:Sculptra can last up to 2 years in your body. I am wondering if Infini won't destroy it at your next treatment in six months?
Sculptra is injected much deeper than HA fillers and it's been documented that HA fillers are not affected by Infini. So you should be fine. What's more, a study came out this yearvalidating my previous claim that Sculptra and Infini actually speeds up neocollagenesis.
49 minutes ago, Sirius Lee said:Sculptra is injected much deeper than HA fillers and it's been documented that HA fillers are not affected by Infini. So you should be fine. What's more, a study came out this yearvalidating my previous claim that Sculptra and Infini actually speeds up neocollagenesis.
HA fillers are not affected by Infini? I thought these get 100% affected.
2 hours ago, Sirius Lee said:Sculptra is injected much deeper than HA fillers and it's been documented that HA fillers are not affected by Infini. So you should be fine. What's more, a study came out this yearvalidating my previous claim that Sculptra and Infini actually speeds up neocollagenesis.
Can you point to the study, please? I'm really interested. Because for all I know no doctor does subcision and HA filler and then rf microneedling or laser because they can destroy the filler. When I got my sub+Restalyne, I was told not to do any lasers or energy devices at least for 3 months because it will melt the filler.
3 hours ago, BlueMaloney said:Sculptra can last up to 2 years in your body. I am wondering if Infini won't destroy it at your next treatment in six months?
I didn't get the Sculptra filler. I wanted to see what subcision and infini could do on their own. I think though that Sculptra is somehow injected deeper in the skin and infini won't destroy it but I'm not a doctor.
1 hour ago, BlueMaloney said:Can you point to the study, please? I'm really interested. Because for all I know no doctor does subcision and HA filler and then rf microneedling or laser because they can destroy the filler. When I got my sub+Restalyne, I was told not to do any lasers or energy devices at least for 3 months because it will melt the filler.
Recently, two studies have been published regarding histopathology from radiofrequency and filler interaction. One is from Weiss and the other from Lim. Weiss, in his paper (2018), concluded that biopsies showed filler damage along the needle tracks. However, his study was done on nonfacialskin in ex-vivo. Lim's paper (2019) contradicts Weiss by stating that the HA fillers are sterilized at 110-120 C and RF microneedles do not even come remotely close to that level, which he backs up with biopsiesof his own.
Both papers can be downloaded here: https://gofile.io/d/KgJBXX
Note: I noticethe extension have been clipped for the first file (filename too long). Just rename the extension to "pdf".
38 minutes ago, Sirius Lee said:Recently, two studies have been published regarding histopathology from radiofrequency and filler interaction. One is from Weiss and the other from Lim. Weiss, in his paper (2018), concluded that biopsies showed filler damage along the needle tracks. However, his study was done on nonfacialskin in ex-vivo. Lim's paper (2019) contradicts Weiss by stating that the HA fillers are sterilized at 110-120 C and RF microneedles do not even come remotely close to that level, which he backs up with biopsiesof his own.
Both papers can be downloaded here: https://gofile.io/d/KgJBXX
Note: I noticethe extension have been clipped for the first file (filename too long). Just rename the extension to "pdf".
Well , i asked Dr Emil and he said it depends, he told me he saw once Genius RF dissolved filler , i m gonna ask him next time
3 hours ago, Miro said:Well Its not dangerous, just waste of money and filler , it just dissolves
yeah. I just can't imagine however heat resistant those fillers are meant to be how they will not be damaged purely physically by puncturing them hundred times with the laser or the energy device. HA fillerd are injected very superficially.