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I'm not quite as cynical as @SimpleMutton, but as with so much in life the truth is probably somewhere between hope and disbelief. As we all know here, obtaining results is challenging, takes discipline, but is completely possible.
All that said,I would hope Dr Lim of all people would not resort to the tricks of more deceitful, predatory medical professionals.
To be reasonable, it is not often that people are seen in such harsh lighting, and no matter who it is, they will look kind of weird in lighting as bad as that. So, why should it matter if the scars look worse in that ONE specific lighting, if they are nearly invisible in any other lighting? I think the results are phenomenal, even if the lighting is different between the two pictures.
I don't think it was a nefarious trick to intentionally sway people's opinions, but I do believe that this lighting did help to make the scars look "even better."
1 hour ago, Petsme said:To be reasonable, it is not often that people are seen in such harsh lighting, and no matter who it is, they will look kind of weird in lighting as bad as that. So, why should it matter if the scars look worse in that ONE specific lighting, if they are nearly invisible in any other lighting? I think the results are phenomenal, even if the lighting is different between the two pictures.
I don't think it was a nefarious trick to intentionally sway people's opinions, but I do believe that this lighting did help to make the scars look "even better."
Ask yourself why in the "after pic" the lighting is always better than in the "before pic".
With normal lighting the scars wouldn't have been that visible as in the "before pics" and I'd bet my house that if you take away the micro swelling effect the improvement is no more than 10%. If anything I see hypopigmentation (white spots) in the after pic that is very hard to treat
I lost thousands and thousands of money because of dermatologist that faked (or greatly enhanced) their after pics and I don't like it.
The before and After lighting is not a coincidence. They Do it on purpose, and believe me this is by itself is enough proof that acne scars treatments don't work.
They either show the results immediately when there is swelling or they play with the lighting. And they knew it. Go to Dr. Lim videos everyone is commenting on the lighting and hereads the comments and in his next video, he also manipulates the lighting, so he said it is difficult to use the same lighting, seriously?? are we 5 years old to believe this.
check this video at min 12. Do you think there is an improvement? I think Nope, nothing. actually, the guy has no scars to start with and also the small scars he has are not improved.
So the idea show, someone who is good looking and has no scars,in the after pic he already looks good to give the impression that you will get this results after treatment.
22 minutes ago, Scars_Hope said:The before and After lighting is not a coincidence. They Do it on purpose, and believe me this is by itself is enough proof that acne scars treatments don't work.
They either show the results immediately when there is swelling or they play with the lighting. And they knew it. Go to Dr. Lim videos everyone is commenting on the lighting and hereads the comments and in his next video, he also manipulates the lighting, so he said it is difficult to use the same lighting, seriously?? are we 5 years old to believe this.
check this video at min 12. Do you think there is an improvement? I think Nope, nothing. actually, the guy has no scars to start with and also the small scars he has are not improved.
So the idea show, someone who is good looking and has no scars,in the after pic he already looks good to give the impression that you will get this results after treatment.
exactly, almost every time the improvement is through micro swelling or lighting
so tired of it
On 12/18/2017 at 4:23 PM, JohnRottenSkin said:@Scars_Hope
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Lightning? If acne scars can not be improved, why there is forums like this? I bet that there are no forums about regenerating legs or arms.
forum like this exist because people want to have hope, and I do believe some (future) treatment have lots of potential (ie SkinTE).
current treatments are mainly a scam, especially at the astronomic prices they're sold for little improvement
On 12/18/2017 at 4:45 PM, Petsme said:What can you say about all of the people on here who have been posting their results then? Is everyone on here a liar and a faker?
I highly doubt it.
post me some good results, someone with bad acne scarring getting lots of improvements...I haven't seen it
many people here post pics immediately (after a couple of days) after treatment when there is micro swelling.
micro swelling is huge, when I was getting scammed with Fraxel repair the days after the laser I thought I had an improvement close to 80%....after a couple of weeks, when the micro swelling went down I was the same as before the treatment (or almost the same)
16 minutes ago, JohnRottenSkin said:23 minutes ago, SimpleMutton said:forum like this exist because people want to have hope, and I do believe some (future) treatment have lots of potential (ie SkinTE).
current treatments are mainly a scam, especially at the astronomic prices they're sold for little improvementCurrent treatments give you improvements. Often dramatic, if doctors and your body collobrate well.
I haven't seen proof that back up this claim, I only see people spending thousands of $$$ to get very marginal results
There are so many people out there disappointed with the results they got and looking for new treatments, if the ones we have now worked nobody would search for new treatments
15 minutes ago, Petsme said:Mr. Matt, DC girl, robertitoo, etc
I searched for them in the first 5 pages but couldn't find their topics
10 minutes ago, JohnRottenSkin said:23 minutes ago, SimpleMutton said:when I was getting scammed with Fraxel repair the days after the laser
i dont know which treatments suits for your scars, but I doubt that one single laser procedure can do much for anyone.
I did much more than one laser....more like 30/40 of them (different kind), plus microneedling, fillers, peelings, TCA cross, you name it
I'm treating my acne scars since 2007 so you can imagine how many treatments I got and how much I spent (roughly 20,000 total)...with little result to show.
But, contrary to 2007, now I'm optimistic. We finally have companies that are developing scarless healing products that make sense. Why bother to useless treatment that proved little efficacy?
I bet that when SkinTE will release the first pics we'll all laugh about the treatments we're wasting the money right now
10 minutes ago, SimpleMutton said:I searched for them in the first 5 pages but couldn't find their topics
There is a search bar at the top... all this does is prove to me that the reason you are so negative is because you lack the energy to seek out the good results. Most people come here asking for advice. The few that actually document their acne scar journey do get great results.
4 minutes ago, JohnRottenSkin said:I can show you dozens of photos of dramatic results but you will say that this is fake. Many of them from this forum. Scientists looking for methods to make scar tissue turns to healthy skin. Current methods can improve look of scar.
Sorry for english.
well, if they're good results I'll say they're good results....if it's micro swelling, lighting, or just a bunch of random spots ecc then of course not
but anyway I'm curious to see
7 minutes ago, Petsme said:19 minutes ago, SimpleMutton said:I searched for them in the first 5 pages but couldn't find their topics
There is a search bar at the top... all this does is prove to me that the reason you are so negative is because you lack the energy to seek out the good results. Most people come here asking for advice. The few that actually document their acne scar journey do get great results.
I searched...so:
Mr Matt: all lighting, light look completely different.....and as usual in the before pic the lighting is worse than in the after pic, sadly that's the truth
Robertinoo: where are his before/after pics? I only saw lots or rambling about different procedures. He has some pics/video that he took immediately after treatment (hello, micro swelling again), and he still has scars
So many people aren't experienced and don't notice lighting and micro swelling....real improvement is small
I'm sorry you've endured useless treatments. Many of us on here went through useless treatments at high cost before we knew better. I spent 2000 painful dollars on way too manymicroneedling procedures before I even STARTED to understandthe method to this madness. And I still don't know a fraction of what i should. It takes time.
Read @beautifulambitionFAQ, understand the science of scarring, take your time to read and research, see a therapist -- there are so many productive ways to battle this in lieu of throwing up your arms and giving up.
Im certain everyone on here has good and bad days, and most everyone has wasted money at some point - but it seems to me the successfully treated people on here have certain things in common -- discipline, a healthy appetite for knowledge, and optimism.
You may be right that 5 years from now the miracle science we are waiting for will arrive. I hope you are. but I also hope you can see that people sharing their stories here are real, and the successes, while so often minor,incremental and infinitesimal, are as well. And real progress, however minor, would help everyone here to be alittle more confident and getalittle closer to becoming their best self. Isn't that the point?
Best of luck.
7 minutes ago, JohnRottenSkin said:https://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/256333-combo-treatment-subsicion-fraxel-re-cell/#entry2773477
https://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/315693-asian-doing-mixto-for-acne-scars-on-cheeks/look for the guy who self-sub himself couple posts below.
search for mongclinic.com
i didnt save all of them. You can find more
and notice that they all have room for further improvement
I read the first link
The before pics were taken with bad lighting and closer to the face. The after pics were taken with better lighting and more distance to the face.
You can't deny it.
I feel very sorry for the guy because he spent so much money with very little to show off. His face is still a mess, especially under normal lighting (outdoor, whitish lighting).
I wish him well and I can't blame him, he did that in 2010 and probably at that time it was the right thing to do
51 minutes ago, NeoFight said:I'm sorry you've endured useless treatments. Many of us on here went through useless treatments at high cost before we knew better. I spent 2000 painful dollars on way too manymicroneedling procedures before I even STARTED to understandthe method to this madness. And I still don't know a fraction of what i should. It takes time.
Read @beautifulambitionFAQ, understand the science of scarring, take your time to read and research, see a therapist -- there are so many productive ways to battle this in lieu of throwing up your arms and giving up.
Im certain everyone on here has good and bad days, and most everyone has wasted money at some point - but it seems to me the successfully treated people on here have certain things in common -- discipline, a healthy appetite for knowledge, and optimism.
You may be right that 5 years from now the miracle science we are waiting for will arrive. I hope you are. but I also hope you can see that people sharing their stories here are real, and the successes, while so often minor,incremental and infinitesimal, are as well. And real progress, however minor, would help everyone here to be alittle more confident and getalittle closer to becoming their best self. Isn't that the point?
Best of luck.
I'm not giving up, I'm waiting for SkinTE which is the only treatment that make sense to me....If I have to spend money I want to fix my problem, not just getting a useless small improvement. Even if my scars improve by 30% then what? Nothing change, only my bank account that get smaller.
I understand people going through treatments because acne scars can take a toll to one's self esteem but what I'm trying to say is to not trust before/after pics especially if taken by dermatologists/plastic surgeons because often they show results much bigger than the real ones
Best of luck to you too
40 minutes ago, JohnRottenSkin said:42 minutes ago, SimpleMutton said:I read the first link
The before pics were taken with bad lighting and closer to the face. The after pics were taken with better lighting and more distance to the face.
You can't deny it.dont deny that result is good
For me the question to ask here is: "does this guy feel confident with the skin he has now after the treatment?" "has his life changed?"
If I were him, I'd say no. Face still look battered with acne scars and his life probably didn't change much. Did he get an improvement? Yes, he got some improvement (even if less that it shows from the pics).
Did the treatment fix his problem? No
So, as much as I'm sorry to say this, I have to say he wasted his money and indeed the guy kept talking about further treatments....he knows his problem is still there. If he felt confident right now he wouldn't search for other treatments.
That's why I only look to scarless healing treatments right now. They're the only ones capable of fixing the problem as we, patients, want it. The only ones capable to change one's life and so the only ones worth spending money on
@simplemutton I agree with you for the most part. Most before and afters I see are BS. That being said I think in this day and age you can definitely get results with subcision/filler, RF microneedling, and TCA cross. I think Lim DOES get results. I also think he has used some lighting though so it's always tough to tell. I think MR Matt had some pretty good results. I've looked into ernestorio's a bit and it seems like he still has SEVERE scarring. I'm sure he has had substantial results but it is still evident he has bad scarring. TBH you gotta give it to the guy for the massive set of balls that he has. You can find him online pretty easily. He's actually a pretty well established speaker by the looks of things.
I'll be going in for subcision + filler for the first time in a few months. Will definitely be taking pictures.
After reading a bit I really like the science behind RF microneedling. Seems like it's everything that CAN give results. Only problem is the technology is embryonic so you have a few companies charging massive fucking dollars just because their products have gone through the regulatory safety procedures. I bet in 2-7 years when it's cheaper you will start to see some good results when people can affordably bang out 7 treatments in a year. Right now the thought of paying 3k for 3-30 minute procedures is tough to swallow. It's all part of the game atm though. I hope in like 5 years the chinese start pushing cheaper/high quality products into the market so people can get results for a fraction of the price. It's only a matter of time IMO.
That being said I definitely agree with you that most of the pictures on the internet are complete BS. On the other hand I think technology has come a long way and getting results can be done with the right treatment/doctor.
28 minutes ago, thepwhisp said:@simplemutton I agree with you for the most part. Most before and afters I see are BS. That being said I think in this day and age you can definitely get results with subcision/filler, RF microneedling, and TCA cross. I think Lim DOES get results. I also think he has used some lighting though so it's always tough to tell. I think MR Matt had some pretty good results. I've looked into ernestorio's a bit and it seems like he still has SEVERE scarring. I'm sure he has had substantial results but it is still evident he has bad scarring. TBH you gotta give it to the guy for the massive set of balls that he has. You can find him online pretty easily. He's actually a pretty well established speaker by the looks of things.
I'll be going in for subcision + filler for the first time in a few months. Will definitely be taking pictures.After reading a bit I really like the science behind RF microneedling. Seems like it's everything that CAN give results. Only problem is the technology is embryonic so you have a few companies charging massive fucking dollars just because their products have gone through the regulatory safety procedures. I bet in 2-7 years when it's cheaper you will start to see some good results when people can affordably bang out 7 treatments in a year. Right now the thought of paying 3k for 3-30 minute procedures is tough to swallow. It's all part of the game atm though. I hope in like 5 years the chinese start pushing cheaper/high quality products into the market so people can get results for a fraction of the price. It's only a matter of time IMO.
That being said I definitely agree with you that most of the pictures on the internet are complete BS. On the other hand I think technology has come a long way and getting results can be done with the right treatment/doctor.
Never tried RF microneedling but the price of 3k is ludicrous! And I bet to get optimal results it takes more than one treatment....
Subcision+fillers is a good treatment if you have rolling scars but it's only temporary....anyway wish you good luck and a good result with it!
As an advice I'd tell you to read the "scarless healing" topic on this forum and get acquainted with a company called PolarityTE and their product SkinTE which has recently been FDA approved and already being used to treat burn scars (which are much worse that the most horrific acne scars you can find). They promise complete scarless healing, not simple improvements and have already achieved scarless healing in swines (swine's skin is very similar to human's skin, if anything even harder to regenerate).
I'm very hopeful in that product and the company seems solid and trustworthy. So maybe a real cure for acne scars is much much closer than we think
RF microneedling pricing will vary substantially depending on where you live. I was recently quoted $900-1200 total for 3 treatments (we aren't sure how much of my face I want to treat yet. Cheeks and chin 3 times for 900, whole face 3 times for 1200.) This is from a reputable clinic. Sometimes people have to travel to get the pricing they want and sometimes people are just lucky. I honestly believe this is the best thing for widespread and multi-type acne scarring right now (combined with subcision or TCA cross for targeted approach.)
100% clearance may not be possible.. but when you think about it, almost no one has completely perfect skin. I don't think I know anyone without at least a few acne scars or other facial scarring.