8 hours ago, Jenjen77 said:Awesome photos! Thank you for sharing
does subcision take care of pigmentation at all?
Nps! not to my knowledge hun but to be honest I haven't looked into that too much - my biggest concern are the 'dents'/'depressions'.. pigmentation doesn't bother me in the slightest, if i could raise the depressions completely and just live with pigmentation for the rest of my life i would be one happy girl !! but i can definitely ask my dr next time i go in if youd like id say if thats the only problem you have you could probably go down a less invasive route, have you tried anything as of yet?
2 hours ago, 91baby said:Nps!
Thanks!
i haven't yet, but I've thought about fraxel or skin pen or picosure. I read some reviews online though and people are claiming that it made them break out 
idk if it's coincidence or not
@Jenjen77 - i would personally stay away from lasers.. it might take care of pigmentation but can lead to other issues such as aged skin etc but that's just me! have you tried mild peels? i feel like they would be your first point of contact! if i go ahead with the dermapen treatment ill let you know if that has any affect on my pigmentation
Hey guys i thought id put some pics up for anyone wanting to see what recovery looks like around 1 week post. Literally no swelling and slight bruising.
note these were taken in the morning so the right side always looks fairly good.
Really have mixed feelings on what to combine with my next subcision.. suctioning, fillers, dermapen.. hmm!! 
Thanks for your advice @Bingabut ive heard recell is expensive and a scam. What do you think? i looked into fat grafting ages ago but have also heard its too expensive for a semi-permanent result (and in some cases the fat doesnt take at all)
im really thinking fillers with my subcision is the way to go.. but maybe the dermapen too like my doctor initially suggested? any suggestions would be so appreciated!
my biggest worry with dermapen is micro tearing of the skin or 'hole like' depressions..
xx
Have you seen any improvement? And did you do dermapen? Whats the downtime like @UtmostGeese ? Thanks for your input!
I thought I'd leave this link
micro needling acne scars before and after - YouTube
I also thought to leave the con.. in regards to this one I do believe the lady went to the wrong person to get the procedure done and in the hands of a qualified professional things may have turned out better for her.... hmm.. I assume others can help put in their input along with their own experiences!!:D
https://www.realself.com/review/netherlands-nl-dermapen-microneedling-ruined-skin#comment-4627043
another good review
https://www.realself.com/review/beverly-hills-microneedling-prp-acne-scars-anti-aging?tags=3502&sortBy=created&offset=10#
I highly recommend skimming through this website !!! Idk if there are anymore like them but if there is it would be great to make a list of them for future reference
@realtalkguRL that scary review has really put me off dermapen!!! I might stick to suctioning on my third round of subcision and then go from there!!
i thought id just chuck in some pics. These were taken today, 20 days post subcision, in the afternoon after work when all my makeup has melted into my scars 
in pictures its hard for me to guage the improvement but in person i feel slight improvement, in the sense where the scars feel softer and more less deep.. im itching for my next round
keep in mind my skin ALWAYS looks worse in the afternoon and makeup makes the scars so noticeable.. (but i can't be without it lol)
I had also thought this would be a good reference..
I'm not too convinced on silicone being the best filler but this young lady has gotten great improvement from her additive juvederm and I know you had been wanting to try that... 
just thought this would be of use somehow.. also her videos are great she has done micro needling and has her whole diary of videos to her progress!!! It's really incredible if you haven't taken a look, I'd recommend. Your scarring doesn't seem to be as deep or harsh more like shallower since your subscion and I'm crossing my finger that there is more improvement yet to come!! Hope your having a great Holiday!!!
Yeh that one bad review had shook me a bit too, I know it's tough but with work your slowly getting there and then can look to other treatments!
I don't know why I didn't show you this sooner but maybe a deep peel would also better benefit your skin along with fillers later on.. since your skiing seems to be more paler then mine it could definitely be an option! 
sadly my doctor said I risk pigmentation but cheers for you who maybe can:)
https://www.realself.com/review/beckenham-gb-deep-chemical-peel-treat-acne-scars
I'm not are sure where you from but also
maybe something like this would be a great option for pampering hehe ... I'm not too sure about how well it does with scarring but it maybe be worth a shot maybe in between treatments. I know that the providers for it are hard to come by but if it's in your area it might be up your alley
lololol sorry I'm getting a little cray cray with the links but here you go
On 23/12/2016 at 11:44 AM, realtalkguRL said:I had also thought this would be a good reference..
I'm not too convinced on silicone being the best filler but this young lady has gotten great improvement from her additive juvederm and I know you had been wanting to try that...
Yeh that one bad review had shook me a bit too, I know it's tough but with work your slowly getting there and then can look to other treatments!
I don't know why I didn't show you this sooner but maybe a deep peel would also better benefit your skin along with fillers later on.. since your skiing seems to be more paler then mine it could definitely be an option!
https://www.realself.com/review/beckenham-gb-deep-chemical-peel-treat-acne-scars
I'm not are sure where you from but also
maybe something like this would be a great option for pampering hehe ... I'm not too sure about how well it does with scarring but it maybe be worth a shot maybe in between treatments. I know that the providers for it are hard to come by but if it's in your area it might be up your alley
lololol sorry I'm getting a little cray cray with the links but here you go
Thank you so much! i can never have too much information/too many reviews! I have super white skin so I'm a good candidate for most treatments i believe, which is lucky! Deep peels scare me because of how they can age skin/cause you to wrinkle etc.. im thinking my next course of action will be subcision + suction then subcision + fillers and then when i feel ive seen sufficient improvement maybe a peel to finish everything off! Waiting until the new year to book in my third subcision !! Will update then x
Nothing much has changed here's some pics:
i haaaate all my pictures on this thread its so intimidating having up-close pictures of your scars in terrible angles and lighting.
im booked in for my third subcision on the 27.02 - i wanted to see if anything would be different if i let my skin heal more.. no changes really.
i emailed my doc about fillers in combination with my next round (i have a wedding early march, im the maid of honor) but she said they cant be performed on the same day and would need spacing apart? It was weird to get that reply as all I've ever seen on this site is 'subcision and fillers' and then threads about them both being done at once.. hmm..
she said i would benefit from fillers and she uses emervel - theres nothing about it on this site but i did find research backing it. She said it would be an 'instant fix' and it would last between 12-24 months. My concern is that i might not be able to continue with subcision with a filler underneath my skin..
anyone had any experience with subcision after fillers?
thanks
Ps the pics above are with makeup.. always look worse with makeup but can't go without it
I forgot to mention also she is pushing so hard for me to combine subcision with dermapen. She continues advising it won't cost me any extra and that her patients have had rapid improvement with only a few sessions. Im so torn. I dont want to cause damage to my skin but i also want to be combining subcision with something for maximum results... she assured me shes never had any microtearing/sagging/bad side effects and said those horror story cases would be due to incorrect settings/lack of lubrication/lack of experience etc.
!!!!
Not sure why she would say fillers can't be used along with subcision, maybe it is just her personal preference. It is common to combine the two here in the USA, one of the doctors I contacted even said he rarely performs subcision without fillers.
If you do decide to get a filler, it would probably be a waste of money to get subcision before the effects of the filler wear off. Not familiar with emervel, but their website says its a hyaluronic acid filler and lasts up to 12 months, which is probably extremely optimistic. It should be pretty effective for your type of scarring if you are looking for temporary, but instant improvement. If you like the results of the temporary filler, you could consider some longer term fillers afterwards.
As for dermapen, I don't believe the bad side effects some people experience are any more common for this treatment than any other. The microtearing in particular should be even less of a concern for you. This is something that really only happens with dermarollers or cheap non-professional devices. If I was offered dermapen at no extra cost I would definitely accept it. Just don't expect the addition of that to suddenly result in massive results though, it is just another treatment that can contribute.
I know what your doctor is saying, she is saying you would not benefit from filler because of the depth of the filler she has. You need something like a more superficial filler Juvederm Volbella. Which is not Hydrophilic (doesn't attract excess water). IF she goes deep with sayEmervel, the European equivalent of Restylane then you will get little benefit (it will be too deeply injected into the skin). Watch the below video. You don't need a permanent filler right now, filler is used to create collagen stimulation (fill in the pocket and have the body make new collagen once it wears out). So filler in acne scars can last longer as it is sandwiched between the epidermis and sub fat layer. Your not trying to fill in a wrinkle, your trying to keep your body from reattaching the tethers to your scars (this often happens with vacuum method as it's variable the outcome). Goto a doctor that has filled hundreds of acne scars, if she is not confident she is the wrong choice for filler.
You might do well with infini rf microneedle for your scar type in between when the filler wears out, or TCA peels for the topical aspect of it.
6 hours ago, PCT14 said:Not sure why she would say fillers can't be used along with subcision, maybe it is just her personal preference. It is common to combine the two here in the USA, one of the doctors I contacted even said he rarely performs subcision without fillers.
If you do decide to get a filler, it would probably be a waste of money to get subcision before the effects of the filler wear off. Not familiar with emervel, but their website says its a hyaluronic acid filler and lasts up to 12 months, which is probably extremely optimistic. It should be pretty effective for your type of scarring if you are looking for temporary, but instant improvement. If you like the results of the temporary filler, you could consider some longer term fillers afterwards.
As for dermapen, I don't believe the bad side effects some people experience are any more common for this treatment than any other. The microtearing in particular should be even less of a concern for you. This is something that really only happens with dermarollers or cheap non-professional devices. If I was offered dermapen at no extra cost I would definitely accept it. Just don't expect the addition of that to suddenly result in massive results though, it is just another treatment that can contribute.
Thanks for your input - i might just bite the bullet and do it!
The only reason im hesitant to try the fillers is because she can't then continue to perform subcision and i wanted to get atleast 6 sessions of subcision
maybe ill just finish off subcision/combine dermapen and then finish of with fillers if need be. Do fillers actually erase the look of the pitted area though? I dont know anyone whos used filler on a widespread area like i would be..??
2 hours ago, beautifulambition said:I know what your doctor is saying, she is saying you would not benefit from filler because of the depth of the filler she has. You need something like a more superficial filler Juvederm Volbella. Which is not Hydrophilic (doesn't attract excess water). IF she goes deep with say Emervel, the European equivalent of Restylane then you will get little benefit (it will be too deeply injected into the skin). Watch the below video. You don't need a permanent filler right now, filler is used to create collagen stimulation (fill in the pocket and have the body make new collagen once it wears out). So filler in acne scars can last longer as it is sandwiched between the epidermis and sub fat layer. Your not trying to fill in a wrinkle, your trying to keep your body from reattaching the tethers to your scars (this often happens with vacuum method as it's variable the outcome). Goto a doctor that has filled hundreds of acne scars, if she is not confident she is the wrong choice for filler.
You might do well with infini rf microneedle for your scar type in between when the filler wears out, or TCA peels for the topical aspect of it.
Thanks for your input but she said fillers WILL benefit me she said they will work extremely well for my scarring.. and im all for it! Im just trying to figure out the best combination and how to time everything for optimal results i will take a look at those videos.. thanks
Filler is not for aesthetics here, it's to keep the skin from tethering down again, the collagen replaces the temporary filler. Subcision makes a pocket and the filler acts as a spacer in between the tethers and scar. I think I agree with your doctor the more I look at your pics. IT would be very costly $$$$ for filler for you, as it's a big area. Do your subcisions, Do the Vacuum method after each time. PCT14 did this, see his post about it. and then do TCA peels or Infini RF microneedle or laser. Finally do filler in the end. You have wide spread box cars, little bit of rolling. The major issue is texture skin level over depression of the scar, so TCA peels, Infini RF, or Laser (which is a gamble) takes care of this better before filler. I do filler with subcision because Vacuum does not work for me.
@beautifulambition - thanks for the info, im just confused on something though.. i understand what youre saying abour using the filler as a spacer to stop retethering, but is that to say fillers wont also bring temporary 'filling in' of the scars? Like are you seeing i wont see the 'instant improvement' my doc says ill see? She quoted me $600 which really isn't as bad as i thought.
i will definitely be suctioning next round of subcision, just have to order something that will work to suction - might use filler at the very end of everything as you said.
i will be combining my next round of subcision with dermapen seeing as my doc is really eager to give me those treatments and i trust her. Have you had any experience with dermapen? Also you mentioned you undergo subcision etc, how have your results been? Im unfamiliar with infi rf microneedling and will not, under any circumstances, get laser. Maybe the tca peels though
thats so strange you refer to my scarring as boxcar, ive been told my whole life they're mostly rolling hmm! I hope i get the results im looking for from subcision if they are boxcar as ive always heard its best for rolling scars (the reason why i began the treatment!)
$600 is a very good amount for filler, I have seen some dr's charge thousands to scar patients, especially with a big area as it requires more mls or syringes of filler. I would make sure when she does it at the end which is most logical, she uses Volbella closer to the surface. Dr Lim shows how to to inject it in his videos. Unlike other fillers it can be injected more superficially than a deeper dermis / sub derm filler like LYFT / Perlane . OF course filler will fill ;-P I mean your using filler as a acne scar patient to deal with scars and retethering. I get the question all the time what about permanent fillers. When they have not given their body the opportunity to build that collagen (Without tethers) in the pocket. Some people may hate the look, better to go with something temporary and decide future treatments. Filler does build up scar tissue under the skin with repeated injection so this acts as natural filler in a way (less is needed and less often).
Vacuum if it works for you that is optimal after your procedures, a week after when the wounds are healed(subcision) you suction a few times a day with a cupping like set form Amazon. This creates hematomas or pooling of the blood aka bruising to fill that pocket and eventually (hopefully) create that natural filler). It worked for PCT14, it did not work for me so I had to do filler after a few subcisions. When that wears off in a year do some more, and get the filler topped up. Please note you do want to bruise when doing vacuuming as that is what helps, so don't do quicker ways to heal that bruising when healing (figure out a good way to cover the bruises with makeup and vacuum at night or heavily on weekends).
I have done every treatment out there, I have much different scaring than you it's very deep and fat deficient and big sized, I must use massive amounts of filler. Subbcision gave a small improvement, ... acne car treatments are never one and done.. Dermapen aka Microneedling will help a small bit often the scars but it will not cure you. This is why I recommend a course of TCA / Microneedling after subcision. As you know it all gives a percentage of improvement.Most doctors charge a $700 to $1000 for a dermapen treatment, the Derminator is like $170.
Dermapen treatments will do little during subcision. You can buy your own derminator and do it after if you wish for the cost of one treatment, so much cheaper.use it for upkeep in the future after your subicions, this is why I recommend microneedling and tca after subcision for more of the texture issues. It's a poor man's laser before you make the jump to do that treatment (less threat of fat loss as their is no energy). Yes skip the laser then.
I see boxcars, and "some" rolling. Superficial boxcars are hard to treat as they areThey are surface oriented (Can't just inject filler) and have tethering. They also are many times more numerous than rolling scars. Rolling have nicely defined borders and often are deeper in depression. It does not matter what we call them it's the treatments needed for the patient and your all set with the doctor and my advice. Well see how you heal and respond.
On 1/14/2017 at 10:50 PM, 91baby said:Thanks for your input - i might just bite the bullet and do it!
The only reason im hesitant to try the fillers is because she can't then continue to perform subcision and i wanted to get atleast 6 sessions of subcision
maybe ill just finish off subcision/combine dermapen and then finish of with fillers if need be. Do fillers actually erase the look of the pitted area though? I dont know anyone whos used filler on a widespread area like i would be..??
i agree that you are better off continuing with subcision and trying dermapen than getting filler at this time. Once you are done with these treatments, then see how much more improvement filler can get you.
10 hours ago, beautifulambition said:$600 is a very good amount for filler, I have seen some dr's charge thousands to scar patients, especially with a big area as it requires more mls or syringes of filler. I would make sure when she does it at the end which is most logical, she uses Volbella closer to the surface. Dr Lim shows how to to inject it in his videos. Unlike other fillers it can be injected more superficially than a deeper dermis / sub derm filler like LYFT / Perlane . OF course filler will fill ;-P I mean your using filler as a acne scar patient to deal with scars and retethering. I get the question all the time what about permanent fillers. When they have not given their body the opportunity to build that collagen (Without tethers) in the pocket. Some people may hate the look, better to go with something temporary and decide future treatments. Filler does build up scar tissue under the skin with repeated injection so this acts as natural filler in a way (less is needed and less often).
Vacuum if it works for you that is optimal after your procedures, a week after when the wounds are healed (subcision) you suction a few times a day with a cupping like set form Amazon. This creates hematomas or pooling of the blood aka bruising to fill that pocket and eventually (hopefully) create that natural filler). It worked for PCT14, it did not work for me so I had to do filler after a few subcisions. When that wears off in a year do some more, and get the filler topped up. Please note you do want to bruise when doing vacuuming as that is what helps, so don't do quicker ways to heal that bruising when healing (figure out a good way to cover the bruises with makeup and vacuum at night or heavily on weekends).
I have done every treatment out there, I have much different scaring than you it's very deep and fat deficient and big sized, I must use massive amounts of filler. Subbcision gave a small improvement, ... acne car treatments are never one and done.. Dermapen aka Microneedling will help a small bit often the scars but it will not cure you. This is why I recommend a course of TCA / Microneedling after subcision. As you know it all gives a percentage of improvement.Most doctors charge a $700 to $1000 for a dermapen treatment, the Derminator is like $170.
Dermapen treatments will do little during subcision. You can buy your own derminator and do it after if you wish for the cost of one treatment, so much cheaper. use it for upkeep in the future after your subicions, this is why I recommend microneedling and tca after subcision for more of the texture issues. It's a poor man's laser before you make the jump to do that treatment (less threat of fat loss as their is no energy). Yes skip the laser then.
I see boxcars, and "some" rolling. Superficial boxcars are hard to treat as they are They are surface oriented (Can't just inject filler) and have tethering. They also are many times more numerous than rolling scars. Rolling have nicely defined borders and often are deeper in depression. It does not matter what we call them it's the treatments needed for the patient and your all set with the doctor and my advice. Well see how you heal and respond.
Thank you that was all very informative!
i wonder why vacuum doesnt work for some but does for others. When i undergo subcision i don't feel like i even have wounds. Im swollen for 2 days max then back to normal - do you still think i should wait a week before vacuuming?
my doctor isnt charging any extra for dermapen it will still be within the $200 i pay for subcision so i guess ill just start that up asap. I just desperately only want the scarred areas to be needled, not the healthy unscarred skin, so i hope thats what shes planning to do.
My next appointment for subcision is on the 27th of february and i have a wedding to go to on the 4th of march, i hope i can cover the effects of the dermapen on the wedding day! My dr says there will only be one day of downtime (the day of procedure) so thats promising i guess.
thanks again for your words of wisdom, its so nice to have some guidance!
