@Booper24-hrs you can do your normal routine, You can clean the peeling off gently but don't exfoliate or be to harsh as we don't want to open up the channels again. That is not common to have peeling after Derminator, sounds like you went at it too hard for your skin type which needed a bit gentler. I suggest you use water several hrs after the procedure. If you want to use soap it's like injecting it into your skin, so no we don't need to be overly hygienic as this can cause dermatitis, we don't inject products into our body. But 24-hrs you can use your normal routine. If you must use soap something gentle and few ingredients. Nothing else for 24-hrs.

When I orginally gave you advice I misunderstood and thought you were "peeling" with microneedling as I am often asked this as a Duo treatment.... ""It is normal for the skin to peel after microneedling treatments within a few days. Microneedling creates a large number of tiny punctures on your face, which your body responds to by initiating repair. A new layer of skin is produced and the old skin begins peeling off. The peeling will be minimal, similar to a mild sunburn. This will subside within a few days, leaving you with a youthful, glowing look and feel.

After a microneedling procedure, it is also common to have a scabby texture around the area where the microneedling was done. This is perfectly normal. The scabby texture and the extent of the area affected will generally depend on the depth." - Dermapen

""Ingredients after a peel or microneedling... can irritate the skin. I would avoid any active ingredient moisturizers after a peel, microneedling, or microdermabrasion for at least 1 week, and use something bland and non-fragranced, and definitely be diligent with a good sunblock."" ~ Dr. Benjamin Barankin, Toronto Dermatology Centre.

""We advise our clients to wait at least 6-8hours post-microneedling to wash their face. We recommend using a gentle face wash (we like Elta MD Gentle Cleanser) and washing with COOL water, do not recommend using hot water. During the 6 hour waiting period, it is extremely important to stay indoors to avoid any sun exposure because you will not have any sunscreen on to protect your skin (bring a hat and scarf to your appointment to drive home!) You should also reapply the serum given to you at your appointment. After you wash your face, we suggest using HA Serum or a simple ingredientsmoisturizer.If you must leave the house, use a post-procedure sunscreen and a hat, but we recommend staying indoors for the first 24 hours at least. For best results, please avoid make-up for at least 48 hours, or use mineral make up like Jane Iredale. Enjoy your new skin!"" -Lawrence Broder, MD

"It provides the ability to deliver active ingredients deeper into the skin"- New York plastic surgeon Douglas Monasebian,

WHAT TO DO AFTER MICRO NEEDLING PROCEDURE- Dermapen Advice

Once you have had the procedure done, do the following

DO NOT EXPOSE YOURSELF TO THE SUN
After you have undergone your microneedling procedure, stay out of the sun and do not apply any sunscreen, due to the toxins that may be contained in the lotion. Post procedure, the skin channels are completely open, and any toxins contained in topical applicants may be harmful to you.

DO NOT USE ANY ACTIVE INGREDIENT SKIN PRODUCTS
Post procedure, avoid any skin care product that has active ingredients. These commonly include things like Alpha Hydroxyl Acids, Retinol and other similar agents. The skin will be highly sensitive and these products will only irritate the it further.

USE COLLAGEN STIMULATING PEPTIDES
As microneedling serves to stimulate the production of collagen, the skin needs higher amounts of collagen than normal to recover optimally. Collagen Stimulating Peptides assist in that process, further aiding in the stimulation of collagen production.

AVOID THE USE OF MAKEUP AFTER TREATMENT
It is imperative that you let your skin breathe and recover for 24 hours after the procedure. The skin channels are open, and using a makeup brush can penetrate the pores, especially if they are very thin, causing further irritation. Using a makeup brush that has been used before can contaminate the skin and, consequently, lead to infections. Wait 24 to 48 hours before you apply face makeup to give your skin the necessary recovery time.

USE A COOLING FACE MASK
After you have undergone microneedling, you may experience some skin inflammation or redness. Using a cooling mask will help reduce the inflammation or redness of the skin, giving you more comfort.

USE AN ANTIOXIDANT SERUM
Antioxidant serums have properties that assist in healing the skin. Serums assist in soothing the skin and further reduce irritation.

AVOID SWEATING
As you sweat the pores of your skin will reopen, and the bacteria on your skin may enter the skin punctures. This can lead to a either a reaction or infection.

DRINK WATER
It is important to stay hydrated before and after your procedure to help your skin heal and rejuvenate faster.

On 1/9/2019 at 11:59 AM, beautifulambition said:

Booper 24-hrs you can do your normal routine, You can clean the peeling off gently but don't exfoliate or be to harsh as we don't want to open up the channels again. That is not common to have peeling after Derminator, sounds like you went at it too hard for your skin type which needed a bit gentler. I suggest you use water several hrs after the procedure. If you want to use soap it's like injecting it into your skin, so no we don't need to be overly hygienic as this can cause dermatitis, we don't inject products into our body. But 24-hrs you can use your normal routine. If you must use soap something gentle and few ingredients. Nothing else for 24-hrs.  

When I orginally gave you advice I misunderstood and thought you were "peeling" with microneedling as I am often asked this as a Duo treatment.... ""It is normal for the skin to peel after microneedling treatments within a few days. Microneedling creates a large number of tiny punctures on your face, which your body responds to by initiating repair. A new layer of skin is produced and the old skin begins peeling off. The peeling will be minimal, similar to a mild sunburn. This will subside within a few days, leaving you with a youthful, glowing look and feel.

After a microneedling procedure, it is also common to have a scabby texture around the area where the microneedling was done. This is perfectly normal. The scabby texture and the extent of the area affected will generally depend on the depth." - Dermapen

 

""Ingredients after a peel or microneedling... can irritate the skin. I would avoid any active ingredient moisturizers after a peel, microneedling, or microdermabrasion for at least 1 week, and use something bland and non-fragranced, and definitely be diligent with a good sunblock.""  ~ Dr. Benjamin Barankin, Toronto Dermatology Centre.

 

""We advise our clients to wait at least 6-8 hours post-microneedling to wash their face. We recommend using a gentle face wash (we like Elta MD Gentle Cleanser) and washing with COOL water, do not recommend using hot water. During the 6 hour waiting period, it is extremely important to stay indoors to avoid any sun exposure because you will not have any sunscreen on to protect your skin (bring a hat and scarf to your appointment to drive home!) You should also reapply the serum given to you at your appointment. After you wash your face, we suggest using  HA Serum or a simple ingredients moisturizer. If you must leave the house, use a post-procedure sunscreen and a hat, but we recommend staying indoors for the first 24 hours at least. For best results, please avoid make-up for at least 48 hours, or use mineral make up like Jane Iredale. Enjoy your new skin!"" - Lawrence Broder, MD 

"It provides the ability to deliver active ingredients deeper into the skin" - New York plastic surgeon Douglas Monasebian,

 

WHAT TO DO AFTER MICRO NEEDLING PROCEDURE - Dermapen Advice

Once you have had the procedure done, do the following

DO NOT EXPOSE YOURSELF TO THE SUN
After you have undergone your microneedling procedure, stay out of the sun and do not apply any sunscreen, due to the toxins that may be contained in the lotion. Post procedure, the skin channels are completely open, and any toxins contained in topical applicants may be harmful to you.

DO NOT USE ANY œACTIVE INGREDIENT SKIN PRODUCTS 
Post procedure, avoid any skin care product that has active ingredients. These commonly include things like Alpha Hydroxyl Acids, Retinol and other similar agents. The skin will be highly sensitive and these products will only irritate the it further.

USE COLLAGEN STIMULATING PEPTIDES
As microneedling serves to stimulate the production of collagen, the skin needs higher amounts of collagen than normal to recover optimally. Collagen Stimulating Peptides assist in that process, further aiding in the stimulation of collagen production.

AVOID THE USE OF MAKEUP AFTER TREATMENT 
It is imperative that you let your skin œbreathe and recover for 24 hours after the procedure. The skin channels are open, and using a makeup brush can penetrate the pores, especially if they are very thin, causing further irritation. Using a makeup brush that has been used before can contaminate the skin and, consequently, lead to infections. Wait 24 to 48 hours before you apply face makeup to give your skin the necessary recovery time.

USE A COOLING FACE MASK 
After you have undergone microneedling, you may experience some skin inflammation or redness. Using a cooling mask will help reduce the inflammation or redness of the skin, giving you more comfort.

USE AN ANTIOXIDANT SERUM
Antioxidant serums have properties that assist in healing the skin. Serums assist in soothing the skin and further reduce irritation.

AVOID SWEATING 
As you sweat the pores of your skin will reopen, and the bacteria on your skin may enter the skin punctures. This can lead to a either a reaction or infection.

DRINK WATER
It is important to stay hydrated before and after your procedure to help your skin heal and rejuvenate faster.

Okay, thanks for the input.

On 1/9/2019 at 9:07 AM, Booper said:

Hi, tried googling this, but failed.

So I 2mm'd myself all over my face. Went fairly well. Been peeling a little. I looked up washing my face after. I can only find people talking about washing with gentle cleansers 8 hours after, not extented after care advice. I did see some people saying not to touch the peeling skin at all.

So, my question is, when can I wash my face properly? It's been about 5 days and I've only been splashing my face with water and dabbing a moisturizer on my skin. Can I lightly rub my skin with a simple soap? Cause my skin feels disgusting and dirty right now.

 

Thanks

Okay, so dermarolling/stamping/derminator/dr. pen, all apply to microneedling They simply have different delivery methods.

The peeling you're experiencing is a relatively normal process after microneedling. It happens due to a few factors.
To name a couple, it usually happens more with longer needles and if there's a fair amount if pinpoint bleeding.
Basically the skin is shedding to make way for newer skin. It's best to allow it to shed naturally as the skin underneath is still fresh and fairly sensitive. It's best to splash water on your face and dab moisturizer/spf on your skin for the first few days. After around 3-5 days you should be okay to resume a more normal routine(longer is needed for exfoliation), but your skin may need longer than 3-5 days. You should check with a dermatologist to be sure.
However, I think your face is likely feeling 'dirty' because you have an oily skin type. This can cause the shedding skin to stay on your face and not shed as usual, due to the oil keeping it stuck to the skin.
A simple method to help remove the excessive dead skin and be gentle is to steam your skin for 5-10 minutes(around day 3). After, go to a mirror and you'll see some thick white gooey clumps. That's the dead skin, you can gently, very gently wipe it off your face with warm water.
You can then take your fingers and with a simple soap, again, very gently in circular motions rub your skin to loosen any more skin. Don't go crazy as your skin could still be in a shedding process. After apply some more moisturizer.

A good product for this process is 'dermol 500'. It is a soap substitute and can also act as a moisturizer.

If there is blood, you should remove it during microneedling, with a sterile gauze swab, or after with water. Unless you're living in a third world country, water will be clean enough to not cause a problem. After apply your serum, or infadolan. Infadolan contains vitamin A and it will act as a barrier to protect the skin from infection, while also keeping the skin moist(you don't need to apply much, a thin layer).
However, one should not use this product as a replacement, it is okay to use it for the first few days, especially if your skin is peeling. Make sure you use a sunscreen of at least around 30spf. Do not apply the SPF right away though. The skin will be vulnerable to what you put on it for around 6-8 hours.

In regards to needle length. 1.5mm treats medium depth scars. 2mm is more ideal for deeper scars. I wouldn't advise anything above as the deeper you go, the more complications there can be with nerves and such.

You should also look into a high dose vitamin C supplement to be taken orally. This will help support collagen production.

I think this covers what I wanted to say.

Content Moderated: Link Advertising for Davin Lim

Dr. David Lim advises no more than 0.25 to max 0.5 mm

I'm reading here up to 2mm, is that safe to use??

@Aaron888 Lengthof needles depends on what your trying to do. The warning or ""advising"" on the length is more for safety. I never say to goto 2mm. New Data shows .75mm to 1.5mm depending how fatty the area is, ... works great. You don't need to do deep needling sessions as that can cause damage. It's all about how you heal, sensitivity of your skin, thickness of the area, and how comfortable you are when you try it.

I would not do 2mm, we used to think longer was better but this can cause damage.

If you need stronger treatments goto a Dr for RF needling(like a laser) and they can control(deeper), treatments.

Needling is good at home, or between Dr's treatments.

Hi guys, which one to choose - dermastamp, or dermaroller? Gonna use it on rolling scars

@PianinaI would get something like the Derminator, it's cheap and works well(cheaper than one treatment at a Dr). It's automated dermastamping. You just treat the scars. I See you have PCOS, please be careful as healing could be effected, ... always test on one acne scar first and see how it heals. Sensitive healers can make things worse with microneedling. Rollers cause micro-tearing of the skin, and thus are not a good solution for the face.

1 hour ago, beautifulambition said:

@PianinaI would get something like the Derminator, it's cheap and works well(cheaper than one treatment at a Dr). It's automated dermastamping. You just treat the scars. I See you have PCOS, please be careful as healing could be effected, ... always test on one acne scar first and see how it heals. Sensitive healers can make things worse with microneedling. Rollers cause micro-tearing of the skin, and thus are not a good solution for the face.

Hi, thanks for answering. Well, I do think Derminator is pretty expensive, besides I live in Europe. Compared to dermastamp or dermaroller, it's a huge price difference. I read dermaroller tears at skin compared to dermastamp, which makes round micro holes, does that make a difference?

@PianinaSure then use a dermastamp if you would rather do it manually. Derminator is made and sold in Europe but distributed world wide. It's cheaper than one Dr's treatment and it's less painful than manual dermastamping - very fast, also adjustable length. But I understand we all have a budget or want to try it out. Yes it does make a difference, it can cause tears in your skin -rolling as the needles drag trough the skin, and we do have some patients this happens to. It depends how you heal and your sensitivities, those who are the ""poorest"" healers can make more scars, so please try it on a scar first, ... before the rest of the face. It's not magic bullet, but something you can do at home or peels. Peels and needling should should both done for the full benefits. I suppose give it a try with a manual stamp.

5 hours ago, beautifulambition said:

@PianinaSure then use a dermastamp if you would rather do it manually. Derminator is made and sold in Europe but distributed world wide. It's cheaper than one Dr's treatment and it's less painful than manual dermastamping - very fast, also adjustable length. But I understand we all have a budget or want to try it out. Yes it does make a difference, it can cause tears in your skin -rolling as the needles drag trough the skin, and we do have some patients this happens to. It depends how you heal and your sensitivities, those who are the ""poorest"" healers can make more scars, so please try it on a scar first, ... before the rest of the face. It's not magic bullet, but something you can do at home or peels. Peels and needling should should both done for the full benefits. I suppose give it a try with a manual stamp.

 

Yes, I will make sure to try it on a smaller area, thanks for the advice. I've done 4 fraxel re:store treatments and healed pretty well, so I'm hoping for the best. Also doing Aha/Bha peels, good quality serum with peptides, a lot of supplements... really hope dermastamping can make at least minimal difference and not make it worse...

So I finally received my Derminator. Will get started next weekend. Along with HA serum , do I need numbing cream? I remember Dr Rullan using it.

Has anyone tried generic cartridges off eBay? I needed few single needle for temples/hair andshipping from czech is forever.

@cali_scarsNumbing cream is completely optional. Many on the fastest setting don't need it. Give it a try and see. Otherwise over the counter numbing cream for tattoo's is everywhere, - 1 hr, put saran warp over it, wash the skin and sanitize it. No generic cartridges don't work, ... they made custom cartridges forthe unit. Order a few, ... toothbrush, and sanitize with their cleaning powder solution (so they are reuseable).

Hi, i live in south america and the derminator can't be sent here from the official website, is there another way of ordering it?.

@ehvoSure have a friend in a approved country forward it to you, or use a mail forwarding service, ... they ship there, then to you for a cost. Or just get a manual dermastamp online and do it the harder way.

@acne_skin_queenI would not bother with the EDs, ... just another microneedling machine. If it's cheap, it's up to you to do it and tell us your experience. I really think microneedling should be a at home procedure. If you need the next step there is rf needling which is more like a laser and in fact can be stronger with the proper settings. Sadly there is lots of marketing hype in the aesthetics fieldwith broken promises. One can easily do chemical peels and microneedling DIY, unless you want a deep peel. IF you need baby Fraxel or a very gentle laser there is clear and brilliant which has low power, tiny beams, and like microneedling cosmecuticals can be used in the channels.

@acne_skin_queenThat sounds fine, go for the Endymed, which is rf needling. Go for the rf needling if you want to spend money, or DIY at home microneedling. They serve different purposes.

Hi all,

Could someone explain why microneedling and TCA peels are so synergistic?

@PerfectionistIt's quite simple really. One works on deeper layers of the skin and the other upper layers of the skin for texture. Scarsare not just surface deep.

17 hours ago, beautifulambition said:

@PerfectionistIt's quite simple really. One works on deeper layers of the skin and the other upper layers of the skin for texture. Scarsare not just surface deep.

@beautifulambitionThanks for the response! Is there a recommended concentration for TCA peel to use when micro needling?

After reading alot on this forum, eventually I decided to go to a professional. And I'm glad I did, this stuff isn't easy (atleast not for me).

Got my first treatment 6 weeks ago, the therapeut did 0.25 mm on forehead and 0.75 mm on cheaks. Skin reacted good on this.

Yesterday had my second treatment, 0.75 on forehead and 1.0 on cheaks. Today, skins is a bit red, but healing good.

Next time we'll do the same depth, but she'll go deeper (up to 1.75) on the scars. That will be the last for the summer as I'm finding it very difficult to avoid the sun.

It all seems very professional and they listen very good to the patient. The first time I had to stick my head in a device that made all sorts of pictures with different lighting, good for analysis and comparison afterwards. Every sessions is 140 euro's, but its worth it.

Ive heared that fasting helps heal scar tissue, next month is the holy month of Ramadan, Im curious if itll affect the healing process.

Thanks for all the info, stay strong!

16 hours ago, Aaron888 said:

After reading alot on this forum, eventually I decided to go to a professional. And I'm glad I did, this stuff isn't easy (atleast not for me).

Got my first treatment 6 weeks ago, the therapeut did 0.25 mm on forehead and 0.75 mm on cheaks. Skin reacted good on this.

Yesterday had my second treatment, 0.75 on forehead and 1.0 on cheaks. Today, skins is a bit red, but healing good.

Next time we'll do the same depth, but she'll go deeper (up to 1.75) on the scars. That will be the last for the summer as I'm finding it very difficult to avoid the sun.

It all seems very professional and they listen very good to the patient. The first time I had to stick my head in a device that made all sorts of pictures with different lighting, good for analysis and comparison afterwards. Every sessions is 140 euro's, but its worth it.

Ive heared that fasting helps heal scar tissue, next month is the holy month of Ramadan, Im curious if itll affect the healing process.

Thanks for all the info, stay strong!

Hi Aaron, all the best for the treatment. i've heard about the healing method by fasting too. please do keep us updated with the result during your fasting month. i too suffer from slower healing time and would like to know what's gone wrong .

On 4/21/2019 at 6:44 AM, poorbunny888 said:

Hi Aaron, all the best for the treatment. i've heard about the healing method by fasting too. please do keep us updated with the result during your fasting month. i too suffer from slower healing time and would like to know what's gone wrong .

Thank you!

As far as healing is concerned, I discovered this creme called Bepanthen, not sure how it's called in US. But helps the healing process of scabs remarkably.

Ill defenitely share my fasting experience.

I just created a thread regarding this issue, but have any of you developed a hypertrophic scar around or near an atrophicscar fromneedling? Single needling has caused me some minorhypertrophic scarring around a boxcar. Needling has also helped me get rid of hypertrophic scarring (and atrophic)In the past, but Im not sure if I should do my monthly needling next week or sitthis one out and hope the raised scarring will improve with time and/or topicals.

Are there any other places (beside owndoc) where I can by Derminator? They do not ship to my country.

@Candy SaysYes they don't sell to Russia I suppose because of fraud, same with China, Middle East, and some part of Eastern Europe with heavy fraud. I would use a forwarder or reshipper (Google it) - they have a physical address, who you can buy, mail there, in Europe, and then they mail to Russia. Or travel(holiday) to somewhere in the EU / Eastern Europe they allow and have it shipped there. Have a Russian you know from the EU re-ship it to you.