How do you clean the needles after use?

Can I use vinegar? Or anything that can be bought in a regular store?

@rakimaki99Clean Toothbrush, Enzymatic dish soap (most are to remove oils), rubbing alcohol from the pharmacy. Clean the bits off, sanitize the needles. Make sure the needles are not fully sitting submerged in the alcohol step to avoid loosening the needles (glue), ... the alcohol should evaporate. If your country does not have rubbing alcohol, vodkah high proof. For the more high tech extra step sonicator jewelry cleaner and then the other steps.

I just received my derminator 2 and am hoping to start the process soon. It seems from this forum that I will need to buy two things -

HA serum (amazon) - https://www.amazon.ca/Hyaluronic-Joyal-Anti-aging-Hydrating-Hyaluronan/dp/B00L0088YE/

Vitamin C serum (amazon) - https://www.amazon.ca/20-Vitamin-Serum-Hyaluronic-Moisturizer/dp/B00PL3DK26/

Are these two products my best approach? I cannot buy the items from OwnDoc as customs will refuse them. Should I take a vitamin pill for the vit C serum? Also, how often am I applying these, everyday until needling and then after so 85-90% of the month (at night or in the day)?

I have both one 9 needle and 1 needle cartridge. I wanted to know the best depth for scars in the following areas:

-Philtrum (area between lips and nose) - I am thinking 1 mm but 1.5 mm could be ok and more effective?
-Area between sideburns and ears - I am thinking 1 mm but 1.5 mm could be ok and more effective?

I may take the approach of single needling scars first and then doing a 9 needle all over the face.

Thanks!

@ajk7776Your products look fine, ... you just want them to be as simple ingredients as possible. I am not a big fan of vitamin c with microneedling. Wait till the needle channels heal up 24-hrs before applying any vitamin C as it's acidic and can cause a reaction. You get a boost just with microneedling. Topicals can be used at another time. HA serum is to glide the needles but not really necessary with the derminator.

You don't have to apply these every night. Everyone's skin is different. Test what works for you, What I would apply every night is retin-a/tretinorin/differin cream for cell turnover. Vitamin C can oxidize so apply that at night if you use it.

Sure try 1mm and see how you do, build up if you can handle it and your skin is thick enough. Less is more.

Many feel acid peels alternating with needling gives more results than just needling.

BA

Thanks for the quick reply. It looks like I will need a prescription (ugh) to get my hands on tretinoin/retin A in Canada.

I use 2% BP every night to control acne, can I apply this after microneedling or do I have to wait a while?

Thanks!

@ajk7776Try ebay or amazon.com instead of CAN version. You can also get Paula's Choice products though weaker retinoic acid if you wish.

Spot treat BP as needed but typically wait 24 hrs.

Hi, I read that the channels created by the derminator or microneedling is supposed to be non-visible to the naked eye. However, after I just finished my session (fast speed, 1.5mm) till the point of pinpoint bleeding, I can see the channels or "holes" created by the derminator. They're currently red but the fact that they are visible is worrisome to me because I read that the channels or "holes" they leave are supposedly, invisible to the naked eye.

@ AghhNe

"Any" needle can leave a mark on the skin, until it heals. Especially if you stimulate the tissue to bleed.

I don't know of any procedure that is invisible or sensitive except maybe a cream for scars that is not highly effective.

I am sorry you are having this issue. Many don't. Perhaps the setting was too aggressive for you or you do not handle this treatment or others because,... treatments again are personalized.

The only reason I mention derminator is it's priced fairly for what it does. Many do these treatments at Dr's offices and could buy their own unit for the cost. If something better comes out for DIY purposes I will recommend that. Micro-needling has been heavily studied as effective in White paper case studies.

IF you want try a manual dermastamp and see if it does the same thing,... that is the manual method. We only apply this to scars. Are you using the fastest setting.

There is no need to bleed for the treatment to work. We are stimulating healing.

If your referring to needle mars, ... those can heal in a few days for many people. When you get a shot from the Dr when does your injection site heal?

Are you on any medications or blood thinners, ... some products when used with micorneedling can cause a allergic reaction as well, or bacteria can also cause infection if the site is not cleaned.

Do you have any other issues when using topical, getting treatments done, healing from cuts, bruises, etc... Do you have sensitive or thin skin (dealing with any sort of sickness or auto-immune disease), ? These are the people who have issues with treatments weather at home or by Dr's. You are going to see red dots for a few days... the same as you would see if you had a shot at the Dr and bled.

We all have different healing times, ... some of us our extremely slow healers and they do a peel and take months to heal from it.

So maybe try a lower depth, ... not to the point of bleeding.

Many people's cheeks are red for 3 days post microneedling, so that is not shocking. It's not a one day treatment. Have had many do it on a Friday and goto work Monday.

IF it's not for you it's not for you. Laser can cause similar issues for weeks or months, ... peels, etc. It's all about how we heal. Perhaps put some makeup over it while you heal if it bothers you.

Are you using a retin-a/tretinorin/differin nightly for cell turnover?

What is the general recommended depth for needling temples (with the Derminator)? The skin seems thinner there, so I'm worried about injuring the nerves and arteries around that area.

@Gookishe75There are no general recommendations for needle length because were all different. Some have thin skin and some thick. Start with .5mm and build up to 1mm if thick enough. IF you hit bone, back off the depth.

Hi guys , I am going to purchase the derminator 2 shortly but am a bit confused at whether to buy the 9 or 12 needle catridges. Does anyone have experience with either of these and know which one is better or if they have roughly the same functionality.

Thanks

@chingym812 need is fine for cheeks and temples, 9mm goes deeper(less needles) and is used for smaller shallow areas as well. Single needle is to work on individual scars needling around the bored. Basically9 needle is for areas like under eyes, crevices, and hard to reach spaces.

I've been using the Derminator on 1.5mm setting for rolling scars on cheeks and chin 4 times now. I am thinking of upping it to 2mm in some areas next round.

I was reading that suction added while using the derminator can help with the tethering. I tried to look through the thread to see if there was anything directly related to using suction/cupping while using the derminator but only found reference to suction with subcision.

Is it recommended to use suction while micro-needling?

thanks!

@*TigerLily*Unless your doing single needle derminator work, suction is pointless, this is not subcision like a Dr can do. In fact I have never seen great results with derminator and Chinese cupping, I know it's on owndoc but I personally have never seen these results. Get subcision with a Dr if you want to use Chinese cupping afterwards. The derminator does not even reach the tethers(not deep enough. )

Thanks a ton for the honest advice. Happy I came here to get more info before I threw more money at trying to correct this issue. Next step will be saving up and then contacting derms to get more aggressive treatment.

I'm looking at moving to Florida from California, does seeking treatment in California offer a great price or expert advantage over waiting until I'm in Florida?

@*TigerLily*Rullan - San Diego, or Weiner - Florida 😉

Hi all. I hope someone could provide some insight. Suppose someone does microneedling every month for at least two years - what will happen to the scars? Will they go away completely (provided that scarring is not severe - only mild/moderate)?

You must do peels in conjunction with your microneedling(alternating months or a few peels a year). Needling alone won't get most people there. Stamping scars while it stimulates collagen does not fix scar competently, no mono-treatment does. I often tell people if they cannot afford treatments(energy devices)... Do your DIY microneedling and peels at home. Get one or two sessions a year of subcision for the pits.

If you have sensitive skin you can damage it with microneedling, many go way way to deep. Studies show all that is needed is .75mm-1mm to the scars alone(derma-stamp). When you go to deep you can also damage tissue. Or some over needle aggressively and cause more scars. Do not over strip or over needle the skin barrier this is called moisture barrier damage and is often done by over peeling, or exfoliating making large pores.

Know your skin first, just do the scars, don't go to deep, alternate with other treatments.

If you don't get results, you need to see a board certified dermatologist who specializes in acne scars, ... not a general derm.

6 hours ago, beautifulambition said:

You must do peels in conjunction with your microneedling(alternating months or a few peels a year). Needling alone won't get most people there. Stamping scars while it stimulates collagen does not fix scar competently, no mono-treatment does. I often tell people if they cannot afford treatments(energy devices)... Do your DIY microneedling and peels at home. Get one or two sessions a year of subcision for the pits.

If you have sensitive skin you can damage it with microneedling, many go way way to deep. Studies show all that is needed is .75mm-1mm to the scars alone(derma-stamp). When you go to deep you can also damage tissue. Or some over needle aggressively and cause more scars. Do not over strip or over needle the skin barrier this is called moisture barrier damage and is often done by over peeling, or exfoliating making large pores.

Know your skin first, just do the scars, don't go to deep, alternate with other treatments.

If you don't get results, you need to see a board certified dermatologist who specializes in acne scars, ... not a general derm.

Thank you! What kind of peels do you suggest? Thanks very much.

Did anyone ordered in December? I placedan order on Dec 05, as per tracking it left Czech on Dec 12. USPS tracking still not updated. Usually I receive products within 3 weeks.

On 12/26/2018 at 11:45 PM, beautifulambition said:

You must do peels in conjunction with your microneedling (alternating months or a few peels a year). Needling alone won't get most people there. Stamping scars while it stimulates collagen does not fix scar competently, no mono-treatment does. I often tell people if they cannot afford treatments (energy devices)... Do your DIY microneedling and peels at home. Get one or two sessions a year of subcision for the pits. 

If you have sensitive skin you can damage it with microneedling, many go way way to deep. Studies show all that is needed is .75mm-1mm to the scars alone (derma-stamp). When you go to deep you can also damage tissue. Or some over needle aggressively and cause more scars. Do not over strip or over needle the skin barrier this is called moisture barrier damage and is often done by over peeling, or exfoliating making large pores.

Know your skin first, just do the scars, don't go to deep, alternate with other treatments. 

If you don't get results, you need to see a board certified dermatologist who specializes in acne scars, ... not a general derm.  

Hi @beautifulambition, yes i agree with you, i have been usin the derminator 2.25mm on my scars for at  3 session and i really dont see any improvement in my skin. My last session was done 040318. 

Anyway was looking for more solutions to solve my scar, ice prick ( nose, and in between eyes) box and rolling and boxcar (cheeks , temple etc) . and i saw THIS.  

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR POINTING OUT that needling alone is not enough. i have to do peels as well. I have done 30% Tca peels before and realsied it didnt work then abandon the whole " peels at home" project. but after seeing your post, i realized that i didnt waste my money  !!! So THANK YOU SO MUCHA

 I have bgt:

50% tca dermalure 

30% saliyclic acid  dermalure 

70% Glycolic acid MUA 

Dont freak out at high concnetration, I am not a new to Home Peels, i actullay done 50%tca  peel on parts of my face before but not much results?? i intend do the patch test, dilute when necessary etc, So dont worry  Anyway since it is a new year, i intend to start my Project: Beautiful Skin  once again.  

Could u @beautifulambition or anyone else here advise me on 

how i should go about doing Microneedling and Home Peels together? 

Some things i like to know: 

1. Whats the ideal time period i should have between a session of Peel and a session of Derminator 

2. Is it a gd idea to stamp in my face while i applyTCA /glucolic/salicylic acid on my face so as to let the acid penetrate into my skin deeper?? 

( a creative idea thought up by me but, advice pls)   

3. what is Mono- Treatment

Below is just to show people how shitty my icepick scar on my nose is. this is absolutely disgusting and i rly wan to get rid of this the most. pls advice.  

Many thanks

PS. I have consulted doctors before but the treatment cost is way to expensive, so i hence i only want to consider CHEAPER alternatives. treatemnt for my skin cost $10000 for the amt of session i have to go in my country singapore. so any advice is greatly appreciated. 

Pic taken : with a special clipon maginifying lens with my iphone

@toto1993Never do a peel at the same time as microneedling. You wait 1 month between until your completely healed, you could cause more damage if you do a combo.

Read the acid peel guide, it's pinned at the top of the scar treatments forum.

For the icepicks you do tca cross. You already have 50% for this, follow the instructions and build up, do not treat them if they touch - icepicks- they will join scars(rotate).

Most Dr's would tca cross that and laser. IT's a slow process with PIE or redness. But you can needle it and cross it at home if you wish, be prepared they will widen, then your resurface or peel, make since.

Oh yes you must for several weeks before use tretinorin / retin-a nightly plus a licorice kojic acid or konjac cream to prevent discoloration. Your spots will turn red, buy some concealer.

Hi, tried googling this, but failed.

So I 2mm'd myself all over my face. Went fairly well. Been peeling a little. I looked up washing my face after. I can only find people talking about washing with gentle cleansers 8 hours after, not extented after care advice. I did see some people saying not to touch the peeling skin at all.

So, my question is, when can I wash my face properly? It's been about 5 days and I've only been splashing my face with water and dabbing a moisturizer on my skin. Can I lightly rub my skin with a simple soap? Cause my skin feels disgusting and dirty right now.

Thanks

@BooperHi there, I can try to help, please expect 24-hrs between my responses as I help many people a day with some of the worst acne scar issues. Ok so I am a bit confused, this is the Derminator thread / talking about microneedling. 2mm you did all over your face. OK. This is not necessary as new data shows only .75mm to 1.5mm is enough, and too deep or to much can also be harmful.

You leave the blood on your face for several hrs, then you can just wash it off with water.

I don't get the peeling part, ... we do not peel while we microneedle. These are done on separate months. You need to heal, ... peeling and microneedling can damage the skin.

Wash your face properly, from what a peel or microneedling. If it's microneedling as I said use water several hrs after to clean off the blood, you don't even need soap. The channels stay open for 24-hrs. Be very careful what you put on your face then as you can cause issues. Less is more. You don't need moisturizer after microneedling. No you don't rub your skin with soap, just water.

You can wear sunscreen after microneedling... but, no products for 24-hrs, then you can start your normal routine.

IF you need aftercare for a acid peel, see the post for acid peels at the top of the scar treatments sub, ... instructions are in there.

45 minutes ago, beautifulambition said:

@BooperHi there, I can try to help, please expect 24-hrs between my responses as I help many people a day with some of the worst acne scar issues. Ok so I am a bit confused, this is the Derminator thread / talking about microneedling. 2mm you did all over your face. OK. This is not necessary as new data shows only .75mm to 1.5mm is enough, and too deep or to much can also be harmful.

You leave the blood on your face for several hrs, then you can just wash it off with water.

I don't get the peeling part, ... we do not peel while we microneedle. These are done on separate months. You need to heal, ... peeling and microneedling can damage the skin.

Wash your face properly, from what a peel or microneedling. If it's microneedling as I said use water several hrs after to clean off the blood, you don't even need soap. The channels stay open for 24-hrs. Be very careful what you put on your face then as you can cause issues. Less is more. You don't need moisturizer after microneedling. No you don't rub your skin with soap, just water.

You can wear sunscreen after microneedling... but, no products for 24-hrs, then you can start your normal routine.

IF you need aftercare for a acid peel, see the post for acid peels at the top of the scar treatments sub, ... instructions are in there.

Basically my skin is slightly shedding from using the derminator, that's what I meant by peeling, which can happen with microneedling(as I'm sure you know).

I mainly just wanted to know how many days I have to wait after using the derminator to resume my normal skin care routine. As I mentioned, other places I've read that you shouldn't even touch the areas that are shedding. I mean, okay but how are you supposed to keep the skin clean if you're only splashing water over the face. Doesn't seem super hygienic.

Thanks