Acne.org Products
After the initial elimination of a pimple, especially when popped, it is natural for there to be somewhat of a depression. Many people probably haven't noticed it because it is very slight, but can be seen under harsh overhead lighting for a couple of weeks. This is caused by the excess natural cortisone released by your body to reduce the inflammation.This is often accompanied by hyperpigmentation. Glycolic acid and other weak acids can help remove this hyperpigmentation, and may give the illusion that it is reducing the indentation when really it is your body doing this naturally.
There are, however, some topicals that can help reduce acne scarring. TCA and retinoids are more powerful than most AHAs and have been proven for decades to have positive effects on acne scars.
LZOMG is correct that those articles are referring to hyperpigmentation as "acne scars" this is often the case when researching outside of scholarly journals.
I hope this helps.
There are, however, some topicals that can help reduce acne scarring. TCA and retinoids are more powerful than most AHAs and have been proven for decades to have positive effects on acne scars.
I agree with everything you said but strongly disagree that TCA peels & retinoids can provide any permanent improvement to medium to deep acne scars, especially an aged scar. You might experience temporary improvement, but using these methods, treatment must continue to maintain results.
Now, TCA Cross may provide permanent improvement after many treatments, but that's questionable as well.
There are, however, some topicals that can help reduce acne scarring. TCA and retinoids are more powerful than most AHAs and have been proven for decades to have positive effects on acne scars.
I agree with everything you said but strongly disagree that TCA peels & retinoids can provide any permanent improvement to medium to deep acne scars, especially an aged scar. You might experience temporary improvement, but using these methods, treatment must continue to maintain results.
Now, TCA Cross may provide permanent improvement after many treatments, but that's questionable as well.
A lot of it depends on the scar, and the age of the patient. There is 0 dispute among medical professionals that TCA and retinoids increase collagen production. It has been proven by many, many studies. I don't know if there are any free ones available online and it would be illegal for me to post them, but here is one from a quick search on our database.
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1831384
While most scars will experience benefits, some types will see more benefits than others. In fact, if a scar is bound down, this can possibly cause excess collagen production around the scar, even making the scar more visible after treatment stops. It is extremely unlikely that the excess collagen produced will separate the tissue holding down the scar. Scars that are not bound down will have permanent improvement until natural aging reduces the collagen throughout their skin, not just where the scars are located.
Sometimes doctors tell their patients that continued treatment is necessary because the simple fact is that MOST (not all) "acne scar treatments" are not "acne scar treatments" at all. They are reduced collagen treatments targeted towards those who are aging and it just so happens that it also improves acne scars. Just take a look at the fraxel.com main page and see who they are advertising for. The benefits from acne scar treatments are "permanent" in that you will naturally lose the collagen produced as you age naturally. If you are older, this will happen more quickly than if you were younger.
But no, I do not believe these topicals will provide squivi55 the results that she is looking for either.
There are, however, some topicals that can help reduce acne scarring. TCA and retinoids are more powerful than most AHAs and have been proven for decades to have positive effects on acne scars.
I agree with everything you said but strongly disagree that TCA peels & retinoids can provide any permanent improvement to medium to deep acne scars, especially an aged scar. You might experience temporary improvement, but using these methods, treatment must continue to maintain results.
Now, TCA Cross may provide permanent improvement after many treatments, but that's questionable as well.
A lot of it depends on the scar, and the age of the patient. There is 0 dispute among medical professionals that TCA and retinoids increase collagen production. It has been proven by many, many studies. I don't know if there are any free ones available online and it would be illegal for me to post them, but here is one from a quick search on our database.
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1831384
While most scars will experience benefits, some types will see more benefits than others. In fact, if a scar is bound down, this can possibly cause excess collagen production around the scar, even making the scar more visible after treatment stops. It is extremely unlikely that the excess collagen produced will separate the tissue holding down the scar. Scars that are not bound down will have permanent improvement until natural aging reduces the collagen throughout their skin, not just where the scars are located.
Sometimes doctors tell their patients that continued treatment is necessary because the simple fact is that MOST (not all) "acne scar treatments" are not "acne scar treatments" at all. They are reduced collagen treatments targeted towards those who are aging and it just so happens that it also improves acne scars. Just take a look at the fraxel.com main page and see who they are advertising for. The benefits from acne scar treatments are "permanent" in that you will naturally lose the collagen produced as you age naturally. If you are older, this will happen more quickly than if you were younger.
I agree that retinoids increase collagen production. There's no denying that. However, based on my experience, feedback from doctors on realself, and derms/plastic surgeons I've spoken with, they offer little improvement to acne scars. They don't penetrate deep enough to cause reconstruction of scar tissue.
I understand the aging aspect as well.
There are, however, some topicals that can help reduce acne scarring. TCA and retinoids are more powerful than most AHAs and have been proven for decades to have positive effects on acne scars.
I agree with everything you said but strongly disagree that TCA peels & retinoids can provide any permanent improvement to medium to deep acne scars, especially an aged scar. You might experience temporary improvement, but using these methods, treatment must continue to maintain results.
Now, TCA Cross may provide permanent improvement after many treatments, but that's questionable as well.
A lot of it depends on the scar, and the age of the patient. There is 0 dispute among medical professionals that TCA and retinoids increase collagen production. It has been proven by many, many studies. I don't know if there are any free ones available online and it would be illegal for me to post them, but here is one from a quick search on our database.
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1831384
While most scars will experience benefits, some types will see more benefits than others. In fact, if a scar is bound down, this can possibly cause excess collagen production around the scar, even making the scar more visible after treatment stops. It is extremely unlikely that the excess collagen produced will separate the tissue holding down the scar. Scars that are not bound down will have permanent improvement until natural aging reduces the collagen throughout their skin, not just where the scars are located.
Sometimes doctors tell their patients that continued treatment is necessary because the simple fact is that MOST (not all) "acne scar treatments" are not "acne scar treatments" at all. They are reduced collagen treatments targeted towards those who are aging and it just so happens that it also improves acne scars. Just take a look at the fraxel.com main page and see who they are advertising for. The benefits from acne scar treatments are "permanent" in that you will naturally lose the collagen produced as you age naturally. If you are older, this will happen more quickly than if you were younger.
I agree that retinoids increase collagen production. There's no denying that. However, based on my experience, feedback from doctors on realself, and derms/plastic surgeons I've spoken with, they offer little improvement to acne scars. They don't penetrate deep enough to cause reconstruction of scar tissue.
I understand the aging aspect as well.
At least they were being honest 
. It is true they do not provide the improvement that most people are looking for.
Is there an article I can read that you can show me then? Do you remember what products your father used? Did a derm give you a specific product to use and if so is it working for you?
This is what I'm trying to TELL you. There is NO topical treatment that'll treat deep acne scars. Period. Not even freaking stem cells can heal deep acne scars, at least not on their own.
Some techniques which have been demonstrated to have some measure of efficacy on acne scars: TCA cross, needling, subcision, punch excision/grafting, dermabrasion, laser resurfacing. All of these procedures cost money and require an extensive amount of thought before committing to them. There is no easy answer like putting some lemon juice on your scars for a couple of months and hoping it gets better. Life is not that easy.
Obviously, my message wasn't clear enough. I've just removed another post. Bullying/harassing will not be tolerated. You may disagree with people, you can't harass them, no matter how much you disagree. If you can't do that, then don't bother replying. Either that, or face the consequences.
Wow, this topic definitely got heated. Thank you all for giving both sides of your arguments, I've read them and considered everything. I feel happy that you all care that I get the help I need. You're all wonderful.
I had to take a hiatus from the board because I was truly bummed out about my skin. However, now I feel much much better about my skin. The reason for this is that I have a new regimen that works very well:
Morning:
- Wash face with sandalwood bar soap (as I'm of Indian origin, my family and I use a lot of ayurvedic products. Sandalwood is very good for the skin, esp acne-prone skin)
- Apply a pea size amount of Tamanu Oil to my face
- Apply a 2-3 drops of Silkia Camellia Oil to my face
- When the oils have absorbed (takes 5 minutes), I pat Sandalwood powder on my face.
Night:
- A honey mask for 20 minutes
- Rinse off, apply Tamanu and Camellia Oil (like I do in the morning)
- Pat Sandalwood powder
This is a very simple routine that has done wonders for my skin. My acne is virtually gone, as is my hyper pigmentation. My pitted scars are still there, but I believe the oils I use have diminished them or made them less obvious. I hope I'm not seeing things, but I feel 100x better about my skin that I don't wear makeup anymore! I've been wearing thick foundation since I was 15 to cover up my acne, but now? NOTHING! Even my scars don't bother me (much) anymore.
I also eat whatever I want - junk food and dairy. I avoided these two groups like the plague in the past, but I started incorporating them in my diet when I couldn't deprive myself any longer. I found the secret: TO NOT THINK ABOUT MY SKIN. I realized that for me personally, my acne was related to how crappy I felt about myself which stressed me out. I was so worried about how people would 'stare' at me and I was scared to go outside, to eat the food I love and to walk outside without makeup. The minute I stopped worrying about all these things, my acne started to die down. Now I get an occasional small pimple at around that time of the month, but I handle it quite well.
So not obsessing about my skin, honey mask, tamanu and camellia oils and the sandalwood products have made me a happy camper. People compliment me on my skin now, despite the scars. I know I'll never have perfectly smooth skin- the scars will always remain but I hope that with the prolonged use of the products I use, time and the way I feel now, they'll diminish to the point where I don't see them. If not, that's okay.
I hope the products that I mentioned in my routine will help any of you. The Camellia oil is exceptional, I'm so glad I made the purchase.
If you have any questions, let me know. Thank you all again for your help and advice!
LOL @ all the people fighting over whatever bout some lemons and sugar!!
Squivi what do those oils do? Like are they for moisturizing or something? Every single oil I use broke me out. Also is sandal wood gentle? Because my skin is very, very sensitive. I will def give them a shot, since my skin routine sucks. The uhm cleanser, benzoyl peroxide and moisturizing steps are very helpful for acne, but other than that ehhh. I still have too many scars, dry and dull skin etc.
Unfortunately I don't have the money for multiple sessions of laser resurfacing. Plus I still have active pimples (yet very small) on my cheeks. Either way, I don't think I'm a good candidate. I'm considering dermarolling though, since I can do it myself or I can go to a professional, both being much cheaper than laser. Obviously I know that the scars will never fully go away, but I'm fine if they get a bit shallower, enough so they don't detract attention from the rest of my face. Does anyone think dermarolling/skin needling will help?
I've been told by family that they are not as bad as they seem and they continue to advise me to either accept them and love myself or to use home remedies to lighten them. It's hard to do either because these scars are all I see when I look in the mirror and I'm so tired of hating what I see. 11 years of my acne ridden misery and counting... *sigh*
One home remedy that worked wonders for me was lemon juice and sugar. I'd squeeze out half of a natural lemon and mix that with maybe a teaspoon of sugar and massage all over my face in gentle circular motions twice a day, then rinsed with lukewarm water. If your skin is sensitive i would suggest doing that once a day. Didnt even take long to notice results, maybe 3 or 4 days to see that it was working for me! Great results! Also, shea butter is awesome and works very well also. Some people say it clogs their skin, not mine though, but to be on the safe side if i were you i'd start with the lemon/sugar scrub and see how that goes for you.
Hmm I 'm really curious about your method with using lemon and sugar. What kind of results did you see? Like did it help with Dark/ Red marks or the actual physical scarring, or both? Willing to give this a shot!
Sugar can be used as a natural exfoliant, like how the salt in beach water NATURALLY exfoliates your skin. Honestly, do some research into why lemon and sugar have benefits for your skin. It's called Glycolic Acid which is an AHA. Which is the stuff found in chemical peels. Chemical peels are what derms use to resurface your skin. Resurfacing is done to remove your dead skin cells thereby also removing dark spots, a.k.a acne scars. 1+1=2, Citrus fruits have it and grapefruits and lemons/lime have very high concentrations of it. What it does is go deep into the layers of your skin to promote cell turnover. Cell turnover is when your old cells die and are replaced by new ones, a.k.a healing. Like you know when you cut yourself with a sharp object and red stuff comes out. And a few days later it starts to disappear and go back to normal and it doesn't hurt anymore. It has healed itself. People have been using this method for thousands of years. BTW try googling it yourself, there are over 2 MILLION results of articles and people who have used this method long before you were even born.
Here's many links of information that support what I posted earlier.
http://www.makeupall...rand/Treatments
http://www.livestron...-home-remedies/
http://adultacnetrea...ars-lemon-water
http://marykit.hubpa...e-Scars-Be-Gone
http://www.removingacnescars.us/
http://answers.yahoo...13195321AAexyPM
Uhm...glycolic acid does NOT help with scars. It helps with cell turnover, yes, which in turn helps with hyperpigmentation (which is inherently temporary) but it is in no way promoting collagen growth to fill in scars. Moreover, the percentages of glycolic acid found in home remedies, such as lemon mixtures and whatnot, do not even approach the percentages you find in laboratory formulations of glycolic acid (10% vs. 20-70%), and even those higher percentages do nothing for scars.
Using sugar as a natural exfoliant is asinine for several reasons:
1. It is WELL-documented that sugar exacerbates skin conditions such as acne, rosacea, and rashes for a variety of reasons.
2. "Natural exfoliation" is detrimental to sensitive skin and can actual lead to further scarring and rough skin texture if done incorrectly.
3. You can't even exfoliate with sugar in a solution because it's no longer in a crystalline structure, you're just inviting bacteria to feed off of it.
All of the articles you cited either refer to either how glycolic acids can help remove hyperpigmentation or they're just half-baked and spouting nonsense. Finding two millions results on Google only demonstrates that it's a widespread misconception, not to mention that your search parameters were extremely non-specific. I mean, you can find around 1.5 million results for "emu oil" on Google as well, doesn't mean that emu oil does anything at all.
The only home remedies which have SOME sort of track record for acne scarring are TCA Cross procedures and needling, and both are very tricky and have tenuously verifiable results.
I'm sorry, but you've been duped with advice made by people who either want to take advantage of gullibility or from people who were so desperate that they were willing to believe that anything works. You either didn't really have acne scars in the first place or you're suffering from a placebo effect. Either way, just putting some lemon juice with sugar on indented acne scars isn't going to do jack, you're wasting your time.
I would appreciate it if you didn't spread misinformation around on these forums, there's enough false information convincing the gullible, I would prefer we abstain from that.
EDIT: In fact, do you have any before/after pictures of your scars? I'm interested to know what your scars actually looked like in the first place.
What do you have to say about Retin-A though. Do they even work? What kind of scarring does retin-a work on? (describe the scarring, shallow, deep, icepick) As in how deep or severe until the retin -a has no effect? Dermatologists prescribes them.
What do you have to say about Retin-A though. Do they even work? What kind of scarring does retin-a work on? (describe the scarring, shallow, deep, icepick) As in how deep or severe until the retin -a has no effect? Dermatologists prescribes them.
Retin-A has no effect on any scars that are worth really calling "scars." They may have the slightest effect on scars that are so shallow that you can't even feel them or see shadows or them in harsh light, but they otherwise won't do very much.
The reason is that Retin-A simply promotes faster cell turnover. There is no way for your body to specifically target scars with a natural response and make them go away, otherwise the scars wouldn't be there in the first place. Retin-A doesn't identify the scarred portions as scars to your body, it just tells your body to turn over the cells there faster.
On 12/20/2012 at 8:26 PM, mrSuitnTie said:LOL @ all the people fighting over whatever bout some lemons and sugar!!
Squivi what do those oils do? Like are they for moisturizing or something? Every single oil I use broke me out. Also is sandal wood gentle? Because my skin is very, very sensitive. I will def give them a shot, since my skin routine sucks. The uhm cleanser, benzoyl peroxide and moisturizing steps are very helpful for acne, but other than that ehhh. I still have too many scars, dry and dull skin etc.
Tamanu oil is for moisturizing and is also anti-bacterial, which helps fight burns, acne, scars, rashes, etc. Camellia oil works pretty much the same way and supposedly works well on wrinkles. I did a lot of research prior to buying them because I have very sensitive skin too and other oils that I tried broke me out. Makeupalley is really helpful too because you have a range of reviews on both products. I was pretty desperate and I'm glad I bought them. I started using them in September and by December my skin cleared up pretty nicely.
Sandalwood soap and powder have been extremely helpful in clearing me up to. Sandalwood products are the staple in the Indian beauty regime, which is why everyone (including the men in my family) swear by it. It's quite gentle for me and natural.
I've also started rinsing my face at night with 100% pure coconut water. On my recent trip to India, all my relatives were doing this, so now I started.
Benzoyl peroxide and salicylic acid were DISASTROUS for my skin. If anything they made it so much worse. These natural products work like a charm for me and I'm not looking back at all.
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I hope my tips help you. 
Happy new year!
Hi everyone!
I just wanted to post some updated pictures of how my skin looks now. I don't know about all of you, but I definitely feel that the pitting has improved, compared to the pictures I posted last April. By no means is my skin perfect or my ideal way, but I can tell it has improved because it was somewhat hard to find the scars in various harsh lighting positions.
I still do not have the financial means to afford laser, TCA cross, derma roller or any other options, so I'll keep going the way I'm going with the Tamanu Oil, Camellia Oil and honey mask regime.
Like I already said, my skin isn't perfect by a long shot, nor do I expect it to ever be. However, these slight improvements have given me hope that they'll be reduced enough to the point where they absolutely 100% don't bother me. I know I said previously that I feel much better about my skin and confidence, which is definitely true - I feel a lot better about my skin. However, I do get jilted when I see the scars in harsh lighting (i.e. in Walmart or Home Depot). Then I feel like my skin is absolute crap.
Nevertheless, these 'I feel like crap' moments are fewer nowadays than those moments that I feel better about my skin. I don't wear makeup anymore, even though there is still some redness surrounding the scars, and I feel freer. I'm just hoping that my uphill battle with these scars continues to show improvements.
I had the same problem as you. I started washing my face with Clearasil for Sensitive Skin 2-3 times a week, and I exfoliate with Neutrogena Gentle Scrub twice a week ($6-7 at local big box store, orange and white bottle). Also, I started getting microdermabrasion facial treatments whenever I can. Let me tell you, what a difference! Most of my scars are gone, my complexion looks great, and my deep pitting is long gone. I've had three treatments so far (usually 3 weeks or more apart). I paid $89 for 3 microdermabrasion sessions (a deal from Groupon). Definitely join, Groupon and Living Social for their wonderful deals. Even if that is too much money for you, you can sometimes find one session for $30-40, which is a steal! I have to drive 25 minutes, but it's worth spending $130 at the local place that does the same treatment.
Good luck! Also, your face looks great!
A lemon juice and surgar scrub will remove some flakey dead skin. It's very messy and the lemon juice can sting the skin and is just plain irritating at times. It can brighten you complexion.
I've tried that concoction many times for a year with no results. I was trying to get rid of hyper pigmentation and make my skin less dull looking. It didn't work for me but that doesn't mean it won't help someone else. Lemon juice won't help with deep scarring like ice picks or boxscars. It also won't help with raised scarring either.
What helps with hyperpigmentation is just giving it time to go away on its own or you can have chemical peels done. There are fruit enzyme peels, lactic acid peels, glycolic peels and the jessner peel. These help with splotchy complexion but you have to find the right chemical peel for YOU.
For actuall scarring there are TCA peels in different strengths. TCA peels can help with boxscars and other shallow indented scars. If you're able to see inprovement when you stretch your scars( stretch your skin surrounding the scar) you can benefit from a TCA chemical peel. There is another peel called phenol that will help with acne scarring too.
Derma rolling may work but it takes time to see results, like months and maybe years. I tried it for 3 months but I used a very small .5 roller. I didn't see any inprovement in skins texture. I only used it for 3 months so I couldn't have seen much results anyways.