Acne.org Products
Hey Iloveuk, I cant believe that derm was so insensitive but then again yea I CAN believe it! We give so much credit to doctors thinking that they have been through so many years of school and theyve seen it all. But not always when its something they havnt been trained to see. Its totally different when an idividual is actually experiencing it themselves and has done a ton of research on that one single issue. And they have been trained to throroughly back some of these products as they represent big $$$ to their livelyhood.I know that such side effects may be rare with retin-a but I doubt even if it were not rare that they would admit it could contribute to what we have experienced. Just look at the pharmaceutical industry and every new pill that comes out and all the lawsuits that follow many of them. I have had more side effects from medications that were even clearly listed as a side effect on the prescibers website. Alongside those side effects were other countless individuals who were suffering the exact same side effects and I have had most if not ALL doctors deny that the medication could do that! And they then love to insenuate that you are nuts.
People that decide to make such snap decisions agreeing with them because they are doctors have clearly not ran the full gambut of trying to get answers from the medical community... especially for a rare disorder! Most of them are taught to treat much more common skin disorders and usually give typical diagnosis with typical medications. Usually its that one rare doctor that has had extensive training in these areas and isnt as interested in getting a buck over really listening to the patient that will finally confirm that you are not going nuts.And in this day and age I feel doctors need to start realizing that with access to the computer and alot of time clients can sometimes come in with a better idea of what may be going on than they may think.The fact that he stated that scars dont appear out of nowhere shows he doesnt know anything about AMVC.All he needed to do was google it!
Its just so much easier for them to dismiss these things and go on to the next typical patient. I have also had these weird scarred pores and squiggly lines that connect to make weird shapes and patterns overnight but with no burning that preceded it. There may not be a ton of people that have this but there are clearly enough to warrant that its not in our freaking head! I wish Lammar was still on here also... please pass along anything helpful he tells you and Ill do the same if something works for me. But hang in there cause I know its hard enough having this go on with your skin and having other people trying to tell you your crazy...hey if your crazy then theres alot of nuts on this thread, including me, LOL !
Yep I hear you! I had a horrific reaction to an antibiotic a few years ago that took me over a year to recover from. I had the reaction after having taken only three pills so everyone told me I was nuts, that it couldn't happen, yet there I was going through it, experiencing every weird random side effect that apparently happens in less than 1% of the population. So I never trust doctors 100%.
With that said, I am seeing another derm on Wednesday as things are getting worse for me and my face feels tight and hurts constantly along with getting new scars. I would like to get blood work done to make sure that this isn't some type of scleroderma or something since my cheeks are getting thick and hard and also some patches between the scars are getting hard as well, making them stand out more.
Lamarr has been helpful, advising me to get on certain drugs and also avoiding the EFA's and vitamin a...I have to say with my adverse reactions to well, everything, I am terrified to try drugs right now but am looking to Wednesday and hopefully getting bloodwork done to determine what might be happening inside.
Keep me posted on what you are trying as is working for you and I will do the same
Back at the org after a short break. I am a little surprised to see this thread have so many pages, I didn't expect that when I started it.
The best person to talk to on this topic was unfortunately driven away from this site, despite only ever trying to help people. There are some absolute ***** here.
lamarr1986 is the man to speak to for anyone still suffering with this.
You are right, he's the man. I have been privately e-mail chatting with Lamarr for a couple of weeks and he has been very helpful. I still am posting here though because I'm curious as to how others are doing who have experienced this - if they've had improvements over time or what.
That's good, you won't go wrong talking to him, was also very helpful to me.
Goodlife, if you don't mind me asking, has your AMVC stopped? Have the scars diminished on their own or have you used any therapy to get rid of them (dermaroller, needling,etc.)? Just would like to know how your progress has been?
Of course I don't mind, no problem.
Yeah it stopped after I stopped taking the fish oil. I had fingernail like scars appear and they seem to have diminished somewhat on there own, I have not had any treatment. The good thing is that these scars are usually quite shallow and do respond well to treatment.
Awesome, I'm happy to hear that they diminished for you. Some that I have gotten already seem to have faded a bit, while others have actually grown over time. Most are pretty shallow but are irregularly shaped and really catch my eye, while others are a bit deeper. I'm looking to have needling done on them in the future - the hard part is living with them until then
Thank you.
Having discussed this with lamarr, I'm sure you have too, they respond very well to needling. You should be really positive about improving them, I have seen his before and after pics and he had amazing results.
Stick with talking to him, he really knows what he is talking about. I felt the same way you are now and he helped me through a tough time.
I have posted some recent pics of me here http://www.acne.org/messageboard/POST-PICS...&start=1540 , but unfortunately I don't have any pics of when these scars started appearing.
I'm so glad that you have gotten to the other side with this. You look good in your pictures. Thanks for sharing your experience, I really appreciate it
Back at the org after a short break. I am a little surprised to see this thread have so many pages, I didn't expect that when I started it.
The best person to talk to on this topic was unfortunately driven away from this site, despite only ever trying to help people. There are some absolute ***** here.
lamarr1986 is the man to speak to for anyone still suffering with this.
You are right, he's the man. I have been privately e-mail chatting with Lamarr for a couple of weeks and he has been very helpful. I still am posting here though because I'm curious as to how others are doing who have experienced this - if they've had improvements over time or what.
That's good, you won't go wrong talking to him, was also very helpful to me.
Goodlife, if you don't mind me asking, has your AMVC stopped? Have the scars diminished on their own or have you used any therapy to get rid of them (dermaroller, needling,etc.)? Just would like to know how your progress has been?
Of course I don't mind, no problem.
Yeah it stopped after I stopped taking the fish oil. I had fingernail like scars appear and they seem to have diminished somewhat on there own, I have not had any treatment. The good thing is that these scars are usually quite shallow and do respond well to treatment.
Awesome, I'm happy to hear that they diminished for you. Some that I have gotten already seem to have faded a bit, while others have actually grown over time. Most are pretty shallow but are irregularly shaped and really catch my eye, while others are a bit deeper. I'm looking to have needling done on them in the future - the hard part is living with them until then
Thank you.
Having discussed this with lamarr, I'm sure you have too, they respond very well to needling. You should be really positive about improving them, I have seen his before and after pics and he had amazing results.
Stick with talking to him, he really knows what he is talking about. I felt the same way you are now and he helped me through a tough time.
I have posted some recent pics of me here http://www.acne.org/messageboard/POST-PICS...&start=1540 , but unfortunately I don't have any pics of when these scars started appearing.
I'm so glad that you have gotten to the other side with this. You look good in your pictures. Thanks for sharing your experience, I really appreciate it
Thank you and you are very welcome. You can get past this too, stick with lamarrs advice. These aren't like other scars, you will get improvement. Best wishes to you and everyone else.
Yep,I took an antibiotic called Levaquin ( just ONE pill too) and got sicker than I have EVER been in my feaking life with constant projectile puking (sorry,lol) for three days and massive sores that broke out all over my face.I had to be hospitalized for three days. Of course this antibiotic works fantastic for others but for me never again.Another one Ciprofloxacin which is widely used made me feel like I was going to flip my lid it made me so anxious. I think its the hydrofloroquinoline antibiotics (sp?) that are the roughest for more people. Im just way sensitive though I must admit. But my side effects from meds and topicals have ranged from the above to hair loss, weight gain,anxiety and newest on the horizon has been scars hhe. Even if it didnt come specifically from retin-a its kinda odd cause I was also taking fish oil at the time too and it has seemed to subside since I stopped. I would like to do needling on these new ones since their not icepicks and pretty shallow but since my AMVC like scars are so close to the ones that didnt respond well to needling before.... Im too chicken and fear making those old icepicks even worse again.I know the feeling about fearing taking anything else.Im paraniod as I can be but still on the quest hha! Are there any specific meds Lammar has suggested that worked for him? Also what does everybody think of aloe vera ( the real kind from the plant). Has anyone tried that and got any results...good or bad? Thanks (:
Yep,I took an antibiotic called Levaquin ( just ONE pill too) and got sicker than I have EVER been in my feaking life with constant projectile puking (sorry,lol) for three days and massive sores that broke out all over my face.I had to be hospitalized for three days. Of course this antibiotic works fantastic for others but for me never again.Another one Ciprofloxacin which is widely used made me feel like I was going to flip my lid it made me so anxious. I think its the hydrofloroquinoline antibiotics (sp?) that are the roughest for more people. Im just way sensitive though I must admit. But my side effects from meds and topicals have ranged from the above to hair loss, weight gain,anxiety and newest on the horizon has been scars hhe. Even if it didnt come specifically from retin-a its kinda odd cause I was also taking fish oil at the time too and it has seemed to subside since I stopped. I would like to do needling on these new ones since their not icepicks and pretty shallow but since my AMVC like scars are so close to the ones that didnt respond well to needling before.... Im too chicken and fear making those old icepicks even worse again.I know the feeling about fearing taking anything else.Im paraniod as I can be but still on the quest hha! Are there any specific meds Lammar has suggested that worked for him? Also what does everybody think of aloe vera ( the real kind from the plant). Has anyone tried that and got any results...good or bad? Thanks (:
No way! Yeah it was 3 Cipro pills that screwed me up for a year! I had central nervous system problems/damage and pretty much everything else a person can possibly get from that crap. Lets just say it almost killed me! Are you by chance a member at FAVC? If so, I am rawfoodsmama over there - I haven't been on there in over a year though since I healed myself from that pretty well (never thought I would get over it). SO we have probably been through the exact same thing with that! Wow this has gotten me thinking...
I know that part of the problem with those of us who react poorly to fluoroquinolones is that it activates an immune system over-reaction of some sort. I guess what I mean to say is that we may have a slight autoimmune issue to begin with and it sets it off big time. This is very similar to what happens when some people take accutane. So....for us the scarring may be our own immune system attacking the skin because we are already prone to autoimmune reactions. I think Lamarr has confirmed this is what happened in his case with accutane. The omega 3's and vitamin a do something to our immune systems that cause them to go into overdrive and attack our skin. Getting the immune system back in order will stop the scarring - it sounds like you have that under control, or are you continuing to scar??
The problem: most of the drugs that Lamarr has recommended to me to stop this scarring are actually related to the fluoroquinolones i.e. plaquenil. It is unclear if mepacrine is related to it, but looks like it might be. I will ask my derm on Wednesday. So, personally I have to wonder if I would be in a worse situation re-exposing myself to another quinolone derivative...
Aloe is good. it helps the immune system and also helps the skin from the inside out. I make Green Smoothies with greens, lemon, and stevia and throw fresh aloe from my garden in there. Topically it makes me itch and dries me out, although it is in my sunscreen and I seem to tolerate that fine. Knowing your background right now, my advice to you (along with all of the other stuff I have suggested) is to get on Chlorella. Reishi mushroom and milk thistle, too, along with MSM which I already mentioned. Our livers and immune systems need help - these things help. I know the raw vegan diet along with TONS of green superfoods like chlorella healed me from the FQ reaction which btw included extensive nerve damage. Not saying it's ideal for everyone, but it helped me alot.
Treating the scars: Obviously take a break from the topicals like retin-a. If you can find someone that does needling in your area with a tattoo gun, try that! They are usually permanent makeup artists. My opinion is that it is safer and more precise than picking at these lines yourself. Only my opinion. This is what I'm going to do - the problem is at this point they will be needling my entire face! Which I guess isn't a horrible thing anyway. It doesn't damage tissue like laser does. Use the LEDs afterward! Maybe try a good vitamin C serum if you HAVE to use something - Devita natural skincare puts out a good one that I might try eventually. I use there sunscreen and I trust their products.
Of course, take what I say as my experience/opinion and obviously not medical advice. However now knowing that we have this FQ reaction in common makes a TON of sense...
we cant simply say that accutane and substances like it, along with retin a and BP all either dry the skin or thin it temporarilly, making it more prone to scarring. this would be more in line with what most doctors and medical journals already say.
ive noticed im scarring on my forehead whilst on accutane (where i havent touched it) and im taking its a sign of too much dryness - even though my skin isnt showing signs of it.
i mean the argument our very immune systems are attacking ourselves seems a bit extreme and comments like that scare the hell out of me.
the idea we all have some terrible immune problem that is destroying our faces and no other parts of our body is a little extreme dont you think?
im not saying you are wrong...its just ive noticed a lot of people in here always seem to look for the most extreme answer to their problems when there are often simplier explanations out there.
we cant simply say that accutane and substances like it, along with retin a and BP all either dry the skin or thin it temporarilly, making it more prone to scarring. this would be more in line with what most doctors and medical journals already say.
ive noticed im scarring on my forehead whilst on accutane (where i havent touched it) and im taking its a sign of too much dryness - even though my skin isnt showing signs of it.
i mean the argument our very immune systems are attacking ourselves seems a bit extreme and comments like that scare the hell out of me.
the idea we all have some terrible immune problem that is destroying our faces and no other parts of our body is a little extreme dont you think?
im not saying you are wrong...its just ive noticed a lot of people in here always seem to look for the most extreme answer to their problems when there are often simplier explanations out there.
I'm in no mood to argue, but in my case I'm 100% sure that it is my immune system. And my face isn't dry - far from it. I completely agree with what Lamarr 1986 has hypothesized regarding the immune system/inflammation causing these scars because my experience has proven this to be correct. This may not be the case with all of us, but it is surely for some. I hope in your case that your face is just dry - the simple answers have not been working for me.
we cant simply say that accutane and substances like it, along with retin a and BP all either dry the skin or thin it temporarilly, making it more prone to scarring. this would be more in line with what most doctors and medical journals already say.
ive noticed im scarring on my forehead whilst on accutane (where i havent touched it) and im taking its a sign of too much dryness - even though my skin isnt showing signs of it.
i mean the argument our very immune systems are attacking ourselves seems a bit extreme and comments like that scare the hell out of me.
the idea we all have some terrible immune problem that is destroying our faces and no other parts of our body is a little extreme dont you think?
im not saying you are wrong...its just ive noticed a lot of people in here always seem to look for the most extreme answer to their problems when there are often simplier explanations out there.
Name a modern day health problem (i.e. diabetes, heart disease, depression etc etc) all have now been proven to be related to inflammation and the immune system. Our modern day diet and environment all contribute towards it, let alone a powerfull anti cancer drug such as accutane.
It isn't as extreme as you think, low level systemic inflammation is very common and can be initiated by many factors. Accutane is particularly good at it, however.
Yep,I took an antibiotic called Levaquin ( just ONE pill too) and got sicker than I have EVER been in my feaking life with constant projectile puking (sorry,lol) for three days and massive sores that broke out all over my face.I had to be hospitalized for three days. Of course this antibiotic works fantastic for others but for me never again.Another one Ciprofloxacin which is widely used made me feel like I was going to flip my lid it made me so anxious. I think its the hydrofloroquinoline antibiotics (sp?) that are the roughest for more people. Im just way sensitive though I must admit. But my side effects from meds and topicals have ranged from the above to hair loss, weight gain,anxiety and newest on the horizon has been scars hhe. Even if it didnt come specifically from retin-a its kinda odd cause I was also taking fish oil at the time too and it has seemed to subside since I stopped. I would like to do needling on these new ones since their not icepicks and pretty shallow but since my AMVC like scars are so close to the ones that didnt respond well to needling before.... Im too chicken and fear making those old icepicks even worse again.I know the feeling about fearing taking anything else.Im paraniod as I can be but still on the quest hha! Are there any specific meds Lammar has suggested that worked for him? Also what does everybody think of aloe vera ( the real kind from the plant). Has anyone tried that and got any results...good or bad? Thanks (:
No way! Yeah it was 3 Cipro pills that screwed me up for a year! I had central nervous system problems/damage and pretty much everything else a person can possibly get from that crap. Lets just say it almost killed me! Are you by chance a member at FAVC? If so, I am rawfoodsmama over there - I haven't been on there in over a year though since I healed myself from that pretty well (never thought I would get over it). SO we have probably been through the exact same thing with that! Wow this has gotten me thinking...
I know that part of the problem with those of us who react poorly to fluoroquinolones is that it activates an immune system over-reaction of some sort. I guess what I mean to say is that we may have a slight autoimmune issue to begin with and it sets it off big time. This is very similar to what happens when some people take accutane. So....for us the scarring may be our own immune system attacking the skin because we are already prone to autoimmune reactions. I think Lamarr has confirmed this is what happened in his case with accutane. The omega 3's and vitamin a do something to our immune systems that cause them to go into overdrive and attack our skin. Getting the immune system back in order will stop the scarring - it sounds like you have that under control, or are you continuing to scar??
The problem: most of the drugs that Lamarr has recommended to me to stop this scarring are actually related to the fluoroquinolones i.e. plaquenil. It is unclear if mepacrine is related to it, but looks like it might be. I will ask my derm on Wednesday. So, personally I have to wonder if I would be in a worse situation re-exposing myself to another quinolone derivative...
Aloe is good. it helps the immune system and also helps the skin from the inside out. I make Green Smoothies with greens, lemon, and stevia and throw fresh aloe from my garden in there. Topically it makes me itch and dries me out, although it is in my sunscreen and I seem to tolerate that fine. Knowing your background right now, my advice to you (along with all of the other stuff I have suggested) is to get on Chlorella. Reishi mushroom and milk thistle, too, along with MSM which I already mentioned. Our livers and immune systems need help - these things help. I know the raw vegan diet along with TONS of green superfoods like chlorella healed me from the FQ reaction which btw included extensive nerve damage. Not saying it's ideal for everyone, but it helped me alot.
Treating the scars: Obviously take a break from the topicals like retin-a. If you can find someone that does needling in your area with a tattoo gun, try that! They are usually permanent makeup artists. My opinion is that it is safer and more precise than picking at these lines yourself. Only my opinion. This is what I'm going to do - the problem is at this point they will be needling my entire face! Which I guess isn't a horrible thing anyway. It doesn't damage tissue like laser does. Use the LEDs afterward! Maybe try a good vitamin C serum if you HAVE to use something - Devita natural skincare puts out a good one that I might try eventually. I use there sunscreen and I trust their products.
Of course, take what I say as my experience/opinion and obviously not medical advice. However now knowing that we have this FQ reaction in common makes a TON of sense...
Heh....i already knew about ciprofloxacin causing these things, it is almost as bad as accutane in some cases. Guess what? i took that crap about a month after i finished accutane, i do believe it had a hand in initiating some of my immune system problems. I haven't touched an anti biotic since (this was 3 years ago).
I can't be sure how much was caused by the ciprofloxacin but i do feel it played a role!
Anyway, mepacrin isn't closely related to these and mepacrin has been nothing but good to me!
I am interested to hear what you did in order to heal your body from the cipro? I was on that crap for ten days. My side effects are very persistant, considering i stopped tane (and cipro) 3 years ago now!
Sorry this post is so long but wow thats truly amazing that weve all had that experience from Cipro. Man I took just one pill of that stuff and was sitting there in a resteraunt with friends who were eating and making a few light noises with their forks and I felt like I was going to snatch that fork out of their hands and stuff it down each one of their throats! And that was not me at all, Im very easygoing usually. The rest of the night intense waves of anxiety, hostility, paranoia and shaking washed over my body and I had to take breaks to go pray for my sanity in the bathroom! Of course the next day when I called and told the doc hey I cant take this...or (no I wont take this was more like it) they still said well we really think you should! Of course I KNEW they were going to say that but I said look you dont understand this stuff WILL send me to the mental hospital if I take it and Im just not going to.Thankfully they called something else in and boy am I glad I only took one!
Im not a part of that group you were saying but I am pretty well into natural foods and herbs after all the hell Ive been through. Unfortunately due to my experiences Im most knowlegable about pharmaceuticals, hhe, sounds like alot of people on here are too. About five years ago I started seeing an all natural doc and he has been the only doc that has confirmed alot of what I have been through with medications and that no Im not crazy. Before he was a naturalist and chiropractor, he was in brain surgery so he knows his stuff. But he got out of that because of all the pill pushing and lack of education on total body healing from the ground up...not just a pill given to cover a symptom. Anyways I was trying to get off of several meds that docs had put me on for sciatica and scoliosis and was having a horrible time with it. Alot of people think chiros are quacks but at one point I couldnt even walk from my condition at times without limping and he is the only doc that after adjusting me for a year and nutrition has gotten me to where I have no problems at all anymore.Something that the mainstream docs told me was impossible.
I started on some of his vitamin blends that you drink throughout the day and at night that were amazing and I still drink them.Well they have alot of what you were saying you take. I should be the healthiest person on the planet hhe. It does have milk thistle in it, magnesium,L glutamine, taurine, tyrosine vit B's etc. I also take NAC, olive leaf and zinc. Then I put one whole lemon in green tea that mixes with the blends. I feel fantastic when following my protocol. He also reccomended people to consume extra virgin coconut oil and flax oil just for general health. But after reading about the EFC'S and AMVC I cut the flax out and feared the coconut too but may incorperate that soon again since youve said it works for you and isnt EFC'S I think, is that right? I read about the reishi mushroom and its tie to beta glucan and skin a while back and took it back when I was needling.
Im just kind of in the postion of not knowing what to choose over what ...and then you have the expense of it all.My house looks like a heath food store too,LOL! But I have heard really good things about Rieshi. Perhaps I have been so healthy with my supplements at times though that I could have overloaded something so Im trying to figure out whats best, stick to it and phase out the rest... but still kind of confused you know?Cause with us what typically works for others may completely do the opposite. Thats why Im glad I found this thread. Also Lammar I think I healed pretty quickly from the Cipro due to me stopping right away and then the blends that I drink do massive things for my hormones and anxiety.I also had a blood pressure med called clonidine for anxiety that was prescribed to me at the time and had to take that more than usual for a few days after. It worked for that time period but Im at a point now where Im doing away with all pharma's if I dont absolutely have to take them.Had I taken even one more pill or God forbid a whole script I dont think I would have faired as well. I really feel for you guys, that stuff was poison to me. I cant imagine what accutane must do!
I was told by my natural doc that if you need an antibiotic for healing even skin that if you take Olive leaf and combine it with Lactoferin its about 500 times stronger than most antibiotics that they even give you.He said that with that if he has a cut or abrasion it heals up in a couple days.Im planning on researching it a bit more though and Ill let you guys know. I havnt tried it with the Lactoferin yet but if Im ever sick and need an antibiotic again Ill try that first over the other anyday.I only go to my medical doc for one nowadays if its an absolute must.But I have to say that I used to get sick ALL the time and since beginning what Ive been doing I havnt even had the flu in years. One thing Im not real familiar with is Chrollella? What exactly is that and what does it do?I dont want to sound like an herb junky now,lol, I just want to start cutting things down to the most effective ones once I figure out what that is!
Yep,I took an antibiotic called Levaquin ( just ONE pill too) and got sicker than I have EVER been in my feaking life with constant projectile puking (sorry,lol) for three days and massive sores that broke out all over my face.I had to be hospitalized for three days. Of course this antibiotic works fantastic for others but for me never again.Another one Ciprofloxacin which is widely used made me feel like I was going to flip my lid it made me so anxious. I think its the hydrofloroquinoline antibiotics (sp?) that are the roughest for more people. Im just way sensitive though I must admit. But my side effects from meds and topicals have ranged from the above to hair loss, weight gain,anxiety and newest on the horizon has been scars hhe. Even if it didnt come specifically from retin-a its kinda odd cause I was also taking fish oil at the time too and it has seemed to subside since I stopped. I would like to do needling on these new ones since their not icepicks and pretty shallow but since my AMVC like scars are so close to the ones that didnt respond well to needling before.... Im too chicken and fear making those old icepicks even worse again.I know the feeling about fearing taking anything else.Im paraniod as I can be but still on the quest hha! Are there any specific meds Lammar has suggested that worked for him? Also what does everybody think of aloe vera ( the real kind from the plant). Has anyone tried that and got any results...good or bad? Thanks (:
No way! Yeah it was 3 Cipro pills that screwed me up for a year! I had central nervous system problems/damage and pretty much everything else a person can possibly get from that crap. Lets just say it almost killed me! Are you by chance a member at FAVC? If so, I am rawfoodsmama over there - I haven't been on there in over a year though since I healed myself from that pretty well (never thought I would get over it). SO we have probably been through the exact same thing with that! Wow this has gotten me thinking...
I know that part of the problem with those of us who react poorly to fluoroquinolones is that it activates an immune system over-reaction of some sort. I guess what I mean to say is that we may have a slight autoimmune issue to begin with and it sets it off big time. This is very similar to what happens when some people take accutane. So....for us the scarring may be our own immune system attacking the skin because we are already prone to autoimmune reactions. I think Lamarr has confirmed this is what happened in his case with accutane. The omega 3's and vitamin a do something to our immune systems that cause them to go into overdrive and attack our skin. Getting the immune system back in order will stop the scarring - it sounds like you have that under control, or are you continuing to scar??
The problem: most of the drugs that Lamarr has recommended to me to stop this scarring are actually related to the fluoroquinolones i.e. plaquenil. It is unclear if mepacrine is related to it, but looks like it might be. I will ask my derm on Wednesday. So, personally I have to wonder if I would be in a worse situation re-exposing myself to another quinolone derivative...
Aloe is good. it helps the immune system and also helps the skin from the inside out. I make Green Smoothies with greens, lemon, and stevia and throw fresh aloe from my garden in there. Topically it makes me itch and dries me out, although it is in my sunscreen and I seem to tolerate that fine. Knowing your background right now, my advice to you (along with all of the other stuff I have suggested) is to get on Chlorella. Reishi mushroom and milk thistle, too, along with MSM which I already mentioned. Our livers and immune systems need help - these things help. I know the raw vegan diet along with TONS of green superfoods like chlorella healed me from the FQ reaction which btw included extensive nerve damage. Not saying it's ideal for everyone, but it helped me alot.
Treating the scars: Obviously take a break from the topicals like retin-a. If you can find someone that does needling in your area with a tattoo gun, try that! They are usually permanent makeup artists. My opinion is that it is safer and more precise than picking at these lines yourself. Only my opinion. This is what I'm going to do - the problem is at this point they will be needling my entire face! Which I guess isn't a horrible thing anyway. It doesn't damage tissue like laser does. Use the LEDs afterward! Maybe try a good vitamin C serum if you HAVE to use something - Devita natural skincare puts out a good one that I might try eventually. I use there sunscreen and I trust their products.
Of course, take what I say as my experience/opinion and obviously not medical advice. However now knowing that we have this FQ reaction in common makes a TON of sense...
Heh....i already knew about ciprofloxacin causing these things, it is almost as bad as accutane in some cases. Guess what? i took that crap about a month after i finished accutane, i do believe it had a hand in initiating some of my immune system problems. I haven't touched an anti biotic since (this was 3 years ago).
I can't be sure how much was caused by the ciprofloxacin but i do feel it played a role!
Anyway, mepacrin isn't closely related to these and mepacrin has been nothing but good to me!
I am interested to hear what you did in order to heal your body from the cipro? I was on that crap for ten days. My side effects are very persistant, considering i stopped tane (and cipro) 3 years ago now!
Wow, and the plot thickens!
Hey Lamarr, it's crazy to see that you had a bad reaction to Cipro (and accutane) and had this inflammation of the immune system/scarring afterward. It has to be more than coincidental. Can you tell me what your persistent side effects are from Cipro?? I know that Cipro tweaked my immune system for awhile, thankfully everything I experienced with that diminished and gradually just disappeared within a year's time. The weird thing? After I stopped taking the vitamin a some of the first signs of trouble I had were that some of my Cipro symptoms returned - my skin felt all tingly weird in my face, I had burning nerve pain coming back all throughout my body, joint pain, and when I would try to fall asleep I would get this strange jolt in my chest that would awaken me suddenly and prevent me from getting any sleep at all. This was nearly identical to what happened when I took Cipro. I had no idea why the symptoms had returned again after nearly three years off of it. Then, of course, this scarring started. The other symptoms have stopped but the skin inflammation persists.
It is GREAT to know that mepacrine is not related to the fluoroquinolones in anyway. I had trouble finding a clear answer on this, but I know that plaquenil is a 'cousin' to these drugs and has caused similar side effects as the quinolones in those who are sensitive to them. It is good to know that mepacrine is safe and tolerated by someone else who had a bad reaction to a fq...
As far as how I healed myself...to be honest it is hard to pinpoint one thing but things didn't turn around for me until I started a raw vegan diet. I know this isn't desirable for many and I would never push anyone into it, but it worked for me and actually improved my health above and beyond how I had ever felt before. I believe it calmed my immune system to the point where I could heal. Perhaps animal proteins were overstimulating or irritating my immune system - there is also the theory that cooked foods actually stimulate an immune response in the body that is undesirable - hard to say as I am no longer the raw foods 'zealot' that I used to be but I can say that there seems to be a truth in it. I took in lots of greens in the form of juices, green smoothies, chlorella, spirulina, and took supplements like MSM. I was 100% raw vegan for almost a year and a half. At the time of this vitamin a incident I had gotten off of raw foods almost completely except for green juice in the morning because I had become complacent and desired a change (and a hamburger) so perhaps my immune system had already started to become compromised - I just don't know. I am trying to do 100% raw vegan again but finding it difficult with my state of mind right now.
That is all I can really say about that...Just writing this I feel extremely sad that I ever became complacent with things because I now realize that I had really healed immensely from a very difficult trauma in my life and was actually given a second lease on life and I pretty much destroyed it with vitamin a.
Sorry this post is so long but wow thats truly amazing that weve all had that experience from Cipro. Man I took just one pill of that stuff and was sitting there in a resteraunt with friends who were eating and making a few light noises with their forks and I felt like I was going to snatch that fork out of their hands and stuff it down each one of their throats! And that was not me at all, Im very easygoing usually. The rest of the night intense waves of anxiety, hostility, paranoia and shaking washed over my body and I had to take breaks to go pray for my sanity in the bathroom! Of course the next day when I called and told the doc hey I cant take this...or (no I wont take this was more like it) they still said well we really think you should! Of course I KNEW they were going to say that but I said look you dont understand this stuff WILL send me to the mental hospital if I take it and Im just not going to.Thankfully they called something else in and boy am I glad I only took one!
Im not a part of that group you were saying but I am pretty well into natural foods and herbs after all the hell Ive been through. Unfortunately due to my experiences Im most knowlegable about pharmaceuticals, hhe, sounds like alot of people on here are too. About five years ago I started seeing an all natural doc and he has been the only doc that has confirmed alot of what I have been through with medications and that no Im not crazy. Before he was a naturalist and chiropractor, he was in brain surgery so he knows his stuff. But he got out of that because of all the pill pushing and lack of education on total body healing from the ground up...not just a pill given to cover a symptom. Anyways I was trying to get off of several meds that docs had put me on for sciatica and scoliosis and was having a horrible time with it. Alot of people think chiros are quacks but at one point I couldnt even walk from my condition at times without limping and he is the only doc that after adjusting me for a year and nutrition has gotten me to where I have no problems at all anymore.Something that the mainstream docs told me was impossible.
I started on some of his vitamin blends that you drink throughout the day and at night that were amazing and I still drink them.Well they have alot of what you were saying you take. I should be the healthiest person on the planet hhe. It does have milk thistle in it, magnesium,L glutamine, taurine, tyrosine vit B's etc. I also take NAC, olive leaf and zinc. Then I put one whole lemon in green tea that mixes with the blends. I feel fantastic when following my protocol. He also reccomended people to consume extra virgin coconut oil and flax oil just for general health. But after reading about the EFC'S and AMVC I cut the flax out and feared the coconut too but may incorperate that soon again since youve said it works for you and isnt EFC'S I think, is that right? I read about the reishi mushroom and its tie to beta glucan and skin a while back and took it back when I was needling.
Im just kind of in the postion of not knowing what to choose over what ...and then you have the expense of it all.My house looks like a heath food store too,LOL! But I have heard really good things about Rieshi. Perhaps I have been so healthy with my supplements at times though that I could have overloaded something so Im trying to figure out whats best, stick to it and phase out the rest... but still kind of confused you know?Cause with us what typically works for others may completely do the opposite. Thats why Im glad I found this thread. Also Lammar I think I healed pretty quickly from the Cipro due to me stopping right away and then the blends that I drink do massive things for my hormones and anxiety.I also had a blood pressure med called clonidine for anxiety that was prescribed to me at the time and had to take that more than usual for a few days after. It worked for that time period but Im at a point now where Im doing away with all pharma's if I dont absolutely have to take them.Had I taken even one more pill or God forbid a whole script I dont think I would have faired as well. I really feel for you guys, that stuff was poison to me. I cant imagine what accutane must do!
I was told by my natural doc that if you need an antibiotic for healing even skin that if you take Olive leaf and combine it with Lactoferin its about 500 times stronger than most antibiotics that they even give you.He said that with that if he has a cut or abrasion it heals up in a couple days.Im planning on researching it a bit more though and Ill let you guys know. I havnt tried it with the Lactoferin yet but if Im ever sick and need an antibiotic again Ill try that first over the other anyday.I only go to my medical doc for one nowadays if its an absolute must.But I have to say that I used to get sick ALL the time and since beginning what Ive been doing I havnt even had the flu in years. One thing Im not real familiar with is Chrollella? What exactly is that and what does it do?I dont want to sound like an herb junky now,lol, I just want to start cutting things down to the most effective ones once I figure out what that is!
Chlorella is a green algae superfood. It is a strong detoxifier and is able to chelate and pull heavy metals and other toxins out of the body. It also nourishes the liver, contains a full array of vitamins and minerals, and contains growth factors. It also helps normalize immune function. I recommend it because of its wide range of effects and because I saw an improvement in my health when taking it after my bad reaction to Cipro.
I agree, I will never take an antibiotic again, I probably didn't even have to take Cipro but I was too weak to get to the store to buy herbs and my mom was chastising me for never going to a proper doctor and taking what the doctor prescribed. SO, I caved and it got me in trouble. I like olive leaf, I also like GSE, Oil of Oregano, and even plain garlic. I got my skin super clear while taking a ton of garlic last year - of course I smelled really bad which is why I stopped.
My head is spinning so I think I need to cut his post short. In the back of my head I have known that Cipro had a hand in this skin issue and I always felt it would rear its ugly head again and now I am pretty much certain it stacked the deck in favor of what is happening now. Kinda makes me feel really, really sick
Thanks for answering my question iloveuk.That Chlorella sounds like some great stuff. But something you just wrote in the above posting really caught my attention. I took the Cipro about eight months ago and it was only one pill so Im having a hard time thinking all this could have somehow been related to my case BUT...when you said you would wake up with a feeling in your chest with a jolt or something before you fell asleep that really shocked me! I too have had this exact same thing happen to me right before I am beginning to fall asleep, since taking Cipro. I will be right on the verge of falling asleep and I jerk myself awake really hard and theres this intense feeling of anxiety and fear that wells up right in the center of my chest that prevents me from sleeping. It would happen over and over again all through the night. I just had this happen to me really bad about a week ago and it still happens. I did some research on the computer and I think its definately tied in with medications in some way.
I asked my doctor about it and he said that it sounded like it had something to do with my dopamine/serotonin systems going off at the wrong times. Its good to have in the morning to get you up and out( without the anxiety though) but for some reason or imbalance its setting off at night.Although dopamine is usually related to pleasure I know that excessive dopamine surges can have an effect on the nervous system actually causing anxiety especially at night. So the Cipro could very well be tied in or some imbalance or medication may be.I have also done research about Cipro and its can indeed cause nerve damage like a few of you have said to have experienced. And I dont think its as uncommon as people may think. Just look on "askapatients" website and see others experiences, its all over the internet. So maybe we are onto something and I am being a bit nieve to think that even one pill couldnt cause that with me too. I know this will be deleted soon but heres a couple pages about that sleep anxiety that I found that you may be interested in.Its really wild but it seems theres way to many similarities going on here to ignore!
http://www.healthboards.com/boards/archive...hp/t-94787.html
Thanks for answering my question iloveuk.That Chlorella sounds like some great stuff. But something you just wrote in the above posting really caught my attention. I took the Cipro about eight months ago and it was only one pill so Im having a hard time thinking all this could have somehow been related to my case BUT...when you said you would wake up with a feeling in your chest with a jolt or something before you fell asleep that really shocked me! I too have had this exact same thing happen to me right before I am beginning to fall asleep, since taking Cipro. I will be right on the verge of falling asleep and I jerk myself awake really hard and theres this intense feeling of anxiety and fear that wells up right in the center of my chest that prevents me from sleeping. It would happen over and over again all through the night. I just had this happen to me really bad about a week ago and it still happens. I did some research on the computer and I think its definately tied in with medications in some way.
I asked my doctor about it and he said that it sounded like it had something to do with my dopamine/serotonin systems going off at the wrong times. Its good to have in the morning to get you up and out( without the anxiety though) but for some reason or imbalance its setting off at night.Although dopamine is usually related to pleasure I know that excessive dopamine surges can have an effect on the nervous system actually causing anxiety especially at night. So the Cipro could very well be tied in or some imbalance or medication may be.I have also done research about Cipro and its can indeed cause nerve damage like a few of you have said to have experienced. And I dont think its as uncommon as people may think. Just look on "askapatients" website and see others experiences, its all over the internet. So maybe we are onto something and I am being a bit nieve to think that even one pill couldnt cause that with me too. I know this will be deleted soon but heres a couple pages about that sleep anxiety that I found that you may be interested in.Its really wild but it seems theres way to many similarities going on here to ignore!
http://www.healthboards.com/boards/archive...hp/t-94787.html
Yep, the sleep/jolting awake thing is definitely related to the Cipro. It felt like a weird contraction or jolt in my chest area and then I would wake with a pounding heart and feeling of terror. I literally could not sleep at all because of it. It lasted for about a month or two when I first took Cipro and then went away. With the Vitamin A it started about a week and a half after I stopped taking it and only lasted for a week and then it straightened out. It may very well have to do with neurotransmitters like dopamine and serotonin. In my case it seems to happen whenever something severely irritates my nervous system. Luckily, that symptom is gone for me right now - it is one of the first to disappear when these things happen to me.
And sadly, adverse reactions are extremely common with these drugs, even after one pill, and the reactions last a very long time, probably affecting us for life. I read through each post on askapatient when it first happened to me and was blown away. This is why I am extremely cautious to take anything anymore.
OK, this thread has really taken a turn in an odd direction, but also wanted to add for carolina rain and lamarr1986...you will continue to have symptoms of fq reaction if you are exposed to them in any form because you have become sensitized...which means you have to watch what you are eating, especially with meats. Most animals are fed fq's or fq derivatives as prophylactic antibiotics and the residues do make it into the meat and they will cause a relapse or increase in symptoms i.e. jolting awake while falling asleep, anxiety, nerve issues, etc. I kept wondering why I would partially recover and then end up nearly convulsing after Thanksgiving, Christmas, and one other occasion, it was turkey that I had eaten, and that is one of the worst offenders, even "free range". Shrimp and farm-raised fish are also implicated. If you go to a restaurant and eat meat, watch out as well. If you eat meat, go organic for sure. Just a word of caution. This is probably one of the reasons why I recovered so well on a vegan diet.
Yea you hit it right when you said something that irritates your nervous system cause thats when it still happens to me.You must be sensitive to anxiety too. It sounds like youve done your research on these kinds of things. My doc I was talking about also warns about the hormones and antibiotics that make it into our meat and even milk. The chlorella and spirinula Im going to look into since it seems so many have had such good results with them. But yea these threads can turn quick ,lol. Let me try to get it back on topic by asking how long your planning on waiting to go back to the Led's? Also Lammar, I saw some before and after pics of your skin a while back and its amazing what youve been able to do for your skin! How long before you saw results with the Led's? Theres a thread on here somewhere isnt there that goes into your protocol I think iloveuk was telling me....
Yea you hit it right when you said something that irritates your nervous system cause thats when it still happens to me.You must be sensitive to anxiety too. It sounds like youve done your research on these kinds of things. My doc I was talking about also warns about the hormones and antibiotics that make it into our meat and even milk. The chlorella and spirinula Im going to look into since it seems so many have had such good results with them. But yea these threads can turn quick ,lol. Let me try to get it back on topic by asking how long your planning on waiting to go back to the Led's? Also Lammar, I saw some before and after pics of your skin a while back and its amazing what youve been able to do for your skin! How long before you saw results with the Led's? Theres a thread on here somewhere isnt there that goes into your protocol I think iloveuk was telling me....
I started back on the LED's last night, but for a very short amount of time and with the lights far away from my face. I think the key for me is to take it really slow with the light therapy...
I finally saw a decent derm on Wedsnesday who saw exactly what I am concerned about. He said it is definitely a problem, not in my head, and he feels that the vitamin a triggered some kind of autoimmune reaction in my body, or if not autoimmune, some kind of imflammatory process. I didn't even bring this up - he brought it up on his own. I am now being tested for every autoimmune disease imaginable, although the likely diagnosis is some kind of porphyria, in which case light therapy is out of the question for me. And here I was wondering why my face felt burned and seemed to scar more after using the LED's for just a brief time. I will update when I hear more
Iloveuk, please tell how your test results end up! I have been dealing with these amvc scars since the end of Januari, and they still keep on coming! I have gotten like 23 scars that you can see quite well, and maybe 13 that you must look very closely. As you can understand Im very depressed at the moment, nothing seems to work. I recently saw a dermatologist at the top hospital here in Gothenburg, and she had never heard about it and she actually came with a piece of papper that she had printed from pubmed, a page I already had read 100 times. She had nothing no to say...
Im pretty fucked...I have tried everything,,Mirtazipine, taking diclofenac a few days, led lights(made things worse, maybe perhaps the best is to only have the red light turned on, not the infrared or yellow), not eating fish, not eating my multivitamin...I have tried everything..I might try plaqenil here soon maybe, dont know...Im pretty fed up with life at this point. Like I had almost gotten rid of my bad acne scars thanks to mostly restylane and then this shit comes up..I got this amvc scarring after my last dermarolling, so beware of dermarolling!!! Needling is a better choice and tca cross....
Iloveuk, please tell how your test results end up! I have been dealing with these amvc scars since the end of Januari, and they still keep on coming! I have gotten like 23 scars that you can see quite well, and maybe 13 that you must look very closely. As you can understand Im very depressed at the moment, nothing seems to work. I recently saw a dermatologist at the top hospital here in Gothenburg, and she had never heard about it and she actually came with a piece of papper that she had printed from pubmed, a page I already had read 100 times. She had nothing no to say...
Im pretty fucked...I have tried everything,,Mirtazipine, taking diclofenac a few days, led lights(made things worse, maybe perhaps the best is to only have the red light turned on, not the infrared or yellow), not eating fish, not eating my multivitamin...I have tried everything..I might try plaqenil here soon maybe, dont know...Im pretty fed up with life at this point. Like I had almost gotten rid of my bad acne scars thanks to mostly restylane and then this shit comes up..I got this amvc scarring after my last dermarolling, so beware of dermarolling!!! Needling is a better choice and tca cross....
I will let you know. I'm so sorry to hear that nothing has worked for you! Do you have any other physical symptoms? The usual precautions haven't worked for me either, so I feel your pain.
I strongly feel that my diagnosis is porphyria, as I seem to be extremely light sensitive and my face constantly feels like it is burning and then I get the scars. If you look at pictures of porphyria, the scarring that they experience is similar to AMVC and it shows up spontaneously after exposure to light. After I used the LED's I started noticing the burning and scarring increase, although I wanted to believe it was unrelated because it initially made my skin look less irritated, it most definitely is related. My skin also has lots of redness and generally looks burned.
I am going to hold off on any dermarolling and am getting the needling done professionally. I'm not sure how long I can wait because every time I look in the mirror and see more scars I break down completely. I just want them gone.
praisethelord, I also wanted to ask if you get a burning or irritated sensation before the scars show up? Also is your skin easily irritated by topicals? How did the LED's worsen your condition - did new scars show up right away or what? Did they seem to improve the condition of your skin at all? Sorry for all of the questions, but if your happen to read this it would be great if you could answer them. It might help to put this puzzle together for us. It just seems like the usual things haven't helped us. I saw your pictures and your scarring looks similar to mine, and I have a combination of long deep scars on my cheeks and ones so small I wouldn't worry about them too much. Pretty much all of the scarring is on my cheeks, with smaller ones scattered on my face. Thanks for your input
Yes my face is also very light sensitive..If i'm out in the sun and its very warm my face gets very easily red especially around my eyes...Iike when I concetrate hard or get embarrased I get quite red..Like the times when I have been at the different doctors office I usually get very red because i get so upset talking about the amvc.
The best recomendation I gave give you is to only wash your face with water, anything else makes the amvc worse..But if you must use make up, I guess a facial wash with non omega 3 ingredients schould be used.
Yes my face react very much to topicals! Well my face doesn't feel like its constantly burning only when I get really upset about something or get really embarrased.
Its hard to tell if I always get scars after I have had those burning sensation, but yes there seems to be a connection. Like I do a lot of weight lifting and especially when I do squats and go hardcore with i; I get really red in my face, I tend to scar the next day..So these days I never go full power on my weight lifting sessions. Also if I eat salmon I tend to scar. And if I use terproline a collagen promoting topical I will scar definetly a few days after usage..Many of my worst scars actually come after using terproline, and the few days I used leds...The yellow leds was the worst for the amvc..I used the yellow leds around my eyes for about a minute for like 2 days after that I got 3 linear scars around my eyes! So yes the leds equals scars for us:(..Its to bad like otherwise my face really glowed when I did the leds!
(
So to be on the safe side to not get the scars follow these steps:
- No fish
- No topicals
- Wash face with water
- Try not to flush to much
-No leds
- No alcohole(not sure about this one)
-Maybe try to get a hold of mertazpine to make this time easier for you
With the help of these I now only tend to scar once a month!
I have read now a little about porphyria and I have a hard time connecting this to our condition? Where have you read about the scars?
Otherwise i'm pretty healthy. The only problem I have these days is that I tend to need to pee in the middle of the night and sometimes in the nights my hands can fall a sleeo!
Look forward to hear from you...