DMSO is basically a way to slam more of a substance through the skin artificially. If you're gonna use it then you'd better use it sparingly. And wash the area well before it goes on.
I'm not sure how it could screw up the process; I don't immediately think of any way that it could. But I also don't really understand the process well enough to make that call either.
The only thing that comes to mind is if it pushes the iodine through the skin faster than normal then it may cause the "reserve" iodine content on the surface of the skin (that has been slower to seep in) to be used up faster. Which suggests reapplying iodine a bit more often.
You could split the difference. Maybe iodine once a day with DMSO and a second time without it.
I think a clarification is in order.
The quotes that Hakuchibijin used in the above post refer to two different uses of iodine. Context is important and I'm going to clarify how I have used this substance in the past.
The first quote is a reference to a post I made regarding hypertrophic growths on the nose of an acne.org member called BumpsNLumps. I told him/her that there was research that showed that DMSO and iodine can help soften and potentially dissolve fibrous tissues. I also warned him about the danger of using DMSO improperly. Furthermore, DMSO and iodine together should NEVER be used on a large surface area. Using very minute quantities on a few bumps or scars for a short period of time may be beneficial, but I advise against long term use.
The second quote refers to using a little iodine (without DMSO) as a way to disinfect the skin. My first recommendation was to use ethyl alcohol. Anyway, I experimented on myself with what I called diluted iodine peels. I did this before having a colleague of mine perform PRP injections on my scars. I noted improved skin texture from the iodine. Nonetheless, I did this once every few months on four occasions and used two drops of iodine tincture.
I fear that most of you are not equipped with the knowledge and/or skills to properly use iodine. While I know of more than a few doctors, including Derry, who recommend it for small fibrous scars, the suggestion is always to use very small quantities on relatively small surface areas. Remember, even those elements naturally found in your body can be dangerous in large doses! For example, a few tenths of a gram of iodine in your blood can cause temporary problems with your thyroid. Go a little further than that and you could get iodine poisoning.
If you want my opinion for a relatively inexpensive, effective and maximally safe @home treatment plan that is more suitable for all of you, and likewise for treating the whole face, then I suggest you start daily LED therapy in conjunction with needling once every 6-8 weeks. You can complement this with daily (or once every few days) application of apple cider vinegar and a once a week application of pure, freshly squeezed lemon juice. Finally, if you can consume 3-6 different fruits and vegetables a day (apple, pear, tomato, carrot, lemon, kiwi, cabbage, etc) it will certainly speed up your body's ability to heal and regenerate after each successive treatment. Every morning I use a juicer machine to extract and combine the juice from all of the above mentioned fruits and vegetables into a single 400ml glass. It's a very healthy addition to my breakfast routine.
I fear that most of you are not equipped with the knowledge and/or skills to properly use iodine. While I know of more than a few doctors, including Derry, who recommend it for small fibrous scars, the suggestion is always to use very small quantities on relatively small surface areas. Remember, even those elements naturally found in your body can be dangerous in large doses! For example, a few tenths of a gram of iodine in your blood can cause temporary problems with your thyroid. Go a little further than that and you could get iodine poisoning.
I hope people take the time to educate themselves about iodine and do not succumb to misinformation. Here are some links to peruse. Please research iodine safety for yourself.
Iodine Deficiency
An Under-Recognized Epidemic
By David Brownstein, MD
http://www.vrp.com/articles.aspx?ProdID=2588
Iodine Deficiency- An Old Epidemic is Back
by Jacob Teitelbaum MD
http://www.ei-resource.org/expert-columns/...pidemic-is-back
Iodine: Its Role In Health and Disease
Some New Exciting Concepts
Michael B. Schachter, M.D.
http://www.mbschachter.com/iodine.htm
Iodine For Health
http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller20.html
Iodine Insufficiency and Cancer - Jorge D. Flechas, MD
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoMfg76gAUo
Iodine: the Next Vitamin D?
by Lara Pizzorno, MDiv, MA, LMT
Longevity Medicine Reveiw
http://www.lmreview.com/articles/Iodine_part1.html
IODINE IS VITAL FOR GOOD HEALTH
http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james37.htm
www.iodine4health.com
Orthoiodosupplementation: Iodine Sufficiency Of The Whole Human Body
http://www.optimox.com/pics/Iodine/IOD-02/IOD_02.htm
Why Does Iodine Get a Bad Rap?
Dr. David Brownstein
http://www.drbrownstein.com/2009/10/i-have...-this-week.html
Halt on Salt Sparks Iodine Deficiency
Doctors say Cut back on the Salt But How Will We Obtain Our Iodine?
By William Davis, MD
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2009/oct200...ficiency_01.htm
Iodine Deficiency and Its Link to Diseases in the Body
http://www.naturalnews.com/023107_iodine_thyroid_cancer.html
Yes I agree, you should all educate yourselves. Then you will have the knowledge to judge who is misinformed.
Iodine deficiency can easily be tested for and corrected by healthy food choices. On the other hand, iodine poisoning from repeated multiple applications over large surface areas (especially with occlusion) for extended periods of time can lead to all kinds of systemic problems, even death.
Iodine is an essential element that is utilized by the body for all kinds of biochemical processes. We need it, there is no doubt about this. However, that does not mean that it won't do damage in large quantities. Anyway since scarcrash says I'm misinformed, it must be true and therefore you need not take my advice. Nonetheless I suggest you all read through the following link beginning to end:
http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/pharm/iodine.htm
guys, is anything supposed to happen when you apply lugols?ive only applied mine for 3 days but i hear people saying it gives them a stinging sensation or burning sensation for a short while. or that it causes their skin to peel or itch. anything along those lines.
personally it hasnt given me any of these things, so it gives me the impression that im doing something wrong or that my lugols solution isnt strong enough or somethig. i just paint the lugols on with a cotton wool ball and thats it, the staining fades but tends to stick with me all day more or less.
any thoughts/ideas?
With my experience it should sting the non scarred skin near the scar. My diluted oral Lugols did not sting as much as my 5% lugols.
thanks for the reply, anyone else any thoughts?
i dont get any stinging at all. not sure what to make of this at all. whether its just my skin that reacts differently or whether my lugols isnt strong enough.
thanks
I appreciate you taking the time to point out the very real dangers of abusing iodine, doc.
But with all due respect, I don't think normal health warnings are gonna influence us experimenters not to do this right now.
We're not focused on getting proper iodine levels in the body - we're crazy over the idea of visible scar reductions. If topical iodine actually does that, then we're gonna be messing with topical iodine even if it's risky to the body as a whole.
I appreciate you taking the time to point out the very real dangers of abusing iodine, doc.But with all due respect, I don't think normal health warnings are gonna influence us experimenters not to do this right now.
We're not focused on getting proper iodine levels in the body - we're crazy over the idea of visible scar reductions. If topical iodine actually does that, then we're gonna be messing with topical iodine even if it's risky to the body as a whole.
First of all, I fully understand your plight. I am an acne scar sufferer myself.
Second, I don't think you can speak for other people. If my advice doesn't influence you it doesn't mean it will not influence someone else.
Third, I obviously cannot stop you from trying this method, just as you cannot stop me from informing people of real dangers. My concern is that many people who are anxious to get rid of their scars will act in an obsessive and indeed compulsive manner when attempting to treat themselves. In other words, they may not use iodine rationally and therefore could unintentionally do harm to themselves. Do you want to see someone live with scars and a failing body? What if someone dies? What will you say then?
If anyone does decide to try this, then I suggest you first get some lab tests done to establish important physiological baselines regarding thyroid, kidney, liver, etc functions. Get follow-up tests at regular intervals after treatment has begun. Use the iodine on one small scar and observe whether it positively changes over a predetermined period of time. In other words, minimize your exposure to this element during the experimental phase. After all, you are essentially performing a trial and as such you are uncertain as to the results (positive or negative) either way. Therefore your actual return (benefit) is as of yet undetermined, while the risks are well documented. Said another way, your return/risk ratio is unknown (potentially unfavourable) and therefore it would be wise to gain empirical evidence for your hypothesis in the safest way possible. One more thing Lac, you call yourself an "experimenter" and thus you are alluding to your ability to pursue knowledge in a logical, hence scientific manner... In that case be aware that emotions must be minimized at all cost, regardless of how difficult it may be to do, so that you can remain impartial and objective when performing the required test(s) and consequently evaluating the results. If you are not willing to do this, then your pursuit of knowledge, and in this case your ability to help yourself, will be defective and severely compromised from the get-go.
On the other hand, iodine poisoning from repeated multiple applications over large surface areas (especially with occlusion) for extended periods of time can lead to all kinds of systemic problems, even death.
Well, obviously one must exercise some common sense with all that they do, including using iodine. Certainly one should not paint there entire face every day with iodine.
I would recommend that if someone wanted to experiment with this, to use it on the worst (one or two) of their scars. Iodine overdose, although highly unlikely in my opinion from topical use (due to evaporation and also due to the general insufficiency that most have) is unlikely.
Well, we can probably all agree that painting the whole face & neck with a potent lugol's solution for weeks on end would be a very risky thing to do.
Iodine overexposure is indeed a bad thing even if you started out deficient in it before you started the treatments. And in the first place, the basic efficacy of this idea is nowhere near demonstrated yet in any capacity. No sense wrecking your body trying to find out a question that could be easily settled with a smaller risk first.
Even if this treatment did indeed turn out to work in some capacity, I suspect it would probably still need to be carefully metered out over time just to be safe with it.
If you've got a large area of scarring and/or higher iodine levels to start with, then I see no other way to keep the iodine intake at reasonable levels at any given time throughout the treatment.
How many people on here are actually using this for depressed acne scars? None of you are talking about this and this is the most common form of acne scarring? I have a hard time believing all of you have only hypertrophic scars??!!
Also, why are some spending $24 for a bottle of Lugols when you can find Iodine Tincture at your local pharmacy for only $5?? Both contain potassium iodide! Does the solution need to have some elemental iodine to be effective?
These are BIG unanswered questions, so somebody please be a straight shooter and give me the facts.
For what it's worth I was never on the website for acne scars in the first place. The specifics of male pattern baldness sometimes have an overlap with acne issues, and that is why I'm here.
$24 versus $5? I'd rather pay the $24 the first time just to take the extra variable out of the equation.
If it actually works and if it actually calls for long term usage, then I'll start thinking about creative ways to cheapen the formula.
guys, is anything supposed to happen when you apply lugols?ive only applied mine for 3 days but i hear people saying it gives them a stinging sensation or burning sensation for a short while. or that it causes their skin to peel or itch. anything along those lines.
personally it hasnt given me any of these things, so it gives me the impression that im doing something wrong or that my lugols solution isnt strong enough or somethig. i just paint the lugols on with a cotton wool ball and thats it, the staining fades but tends to stick with me all day more or less.
any thoughts/ideas?
With my experience it should sting the non scarred skin near the scar. My diluted oral Lugols did not sting as much as my 5% lugols.
thanks for the reply, anyone else any thoughts?
i dont get any stinging at all. not sure what to make of this at all. whether its just my skin that reacts differently or whether my lugols isnt strong enough.
thanks
could anybody share their experience as to whether lugols causes them to sting or peel etc?
i think its important that we are all reading from the same page here.
BRDI thought you were clear about the dangers in using DMSO in a wrong way in the original quotes, and therefore it would be ok to copy them in. I can see I made a mistake. I'm sorry. Anyhow, I wanted your opinion about using it together with Lugol's, because your words kind of carry some large weight with me, and I got it. Thank you.
I Never used Lugol's + DMSO, full face. I only tried this on the one scar I started out with.
1 drop of Lugol's, or less is actually enough for me to cover chin + cheeks + upper lip. I paint it on very quickly with a make up brush. Do you still think that this might be hazardous in a long term daily application?
I have tried LEDs and good nutrition, so far it's done nothing for me.
If anyone does decide to try this, then I suggest you first get some lab tests done to establish important physiological baselines regarding thyroid, kidney, liver, etc functions.I get all this checked out once or twice a year (sometimes even three times a year) because of another medication I'm on, and know that all my values is not only good, but excellent.
Do you want to see someone live with scars and a failing body? What if someone dies? What will you say then?I am actually so unhappy because of my scarring that I don't care if my body fails if I can't get rid of them. I couldn't care less about scientific method right now either. I am social recluse because of all this. Getting rid of the scarring and then have a body that fails, and all would have been in vain though.
Hi Hakuchibijin,
No need to apologize. I simply wanted to clarify a few things.
I ask that you use your common sense when doing any kind of therapy because I don't want you to end up worse off than when you started. Believe me, you don't want a failing body, but rather a healthy one that's equipped to handle scar revisions, cellular treatments, etc...
My current goal is to make acne scars a thing of the past. I think I'm close to achieving this, although I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to give someone porcelain (airbrush quality) skin. What I am finding is that with some innovation it's possible to improve atrophic scars to the point that the overall quality of facial skin is considered normal. I think it's safe to say that this is what most of us desire... Anyway, the strides we're making in regenerative medicine will change your life sooner than you are capable of believing at this point of time. I know it isn't easy but keep you head up. We're in this battle together, and together we shall win.
With regard to your current treatments, do you do daily LED therapy (@ 4J/cm2) along with needling once every few months? BTW if you don't mind me asking, what type of scars do you have?
My current goal is to make acne scars a thing of the past. I think I'm close to achieving this... What I am finding is that with some innovation it's possible to improve atrophic scars to the point that the overall quality of facial skin is considered normal.
What is the innovation that remodels atrophic scars into normal skin? You said that you are finding that this is possible. So, you yourself have witnessed deep atrophic scarring transform into normal skin? Is this something that you have witnessed or is this a theory?
Anyway, the strides we're making in regenerative medicine will change your life sooner than you are capable of believing at this point of time.
Unfortunately, that is what people have been thinking for the past 30+ years. People always tend to think that science is just one step away from solving all of our problems. There were researchers back in the 60's who thought that scarring would be solved by the 70's. Scientists in the 70's were sure that scarring would be a thing of the past by the 80's, and so on.
I truly hope that you are right BRD, but the promise of technology and the "salvation" that it brings always seems like a carrot dangling in front of our faces.
Billions and billions of dollars invested in cancer research every year and yet cancer rates continue to be on the rise.
With technology, it seems like we are always on the cusp, but we never actually arrive. It actually seems like the more we rely on technology to rescue us from of all our problems, the more problems we create for ourselves.
Anyways, I hope you're right. I just can't hold my breath that long...
daily LED therapy (@ 4J/cm2) along with needling
BRD, may I ask what LED device that you recommend? Have you tested many different units and found some to be more effective for scarring than others?
Also, what dermaroller do you recommend?
Thanks
Here is something from Dr. Derry himself. Enjoy!
http://wellnessbeach.ca/2009/11/21/david-d...cerous-lesions/
Here is something from Dr. Derry himself. Enjoy!
http://wellnessbeach.ca/2009/11/21/david-d...cerous-lesions/
so how are things going for everyone?
any updates? hows the lugols treatment going?
ive been using lugols for over a week now and so far nothing. no change, no stinging, no regenate material, no dry skin, no signs of regeneration or shrinkage of scars.
i know its early days but dr derry did say regeneration starts within 2-3 days. i wasnt expecting alot at all, after all ive learnt to lower my expectations over the years, but i did think i would see something no matter how small.
ill carry on going for now as its not like theres anything else that can help. interested to hear how others are going along...
Hey everybody,
I reached the one month treatment-mark with the lugols solution (undiluted). I'm treating one boxcar scar with it, which i have since ten years. Till now I can not recognize any changes in the appeareance of the scar. No redness, no difference in size or deepness. I apply the iodine 2x per day. Since two weeks I also treat another scar with a different form of iodine, which is called Povidone-iodine (Here in Germany they sell a Povidone-iodine-compound which is called "Betaisodona"). Povidone-iodine does much more stain the skin so I'm only able to wear this kind of iodine by night. I don't know if this is only imagination, but the scar seems to be smaller in size. Dr. Derry mentioned the the stain on the skin is very importend for the regeneration process and maybe the deeper colored povidone iodine is the better form of iodine.
The only way to find it out is to try both forms of iodine. So I will continue the treatment and let you which scar responded better/faster to the treatment. Cheers!
Hey everybody,I reached the one month treatment-mark with the lugols solution (undiluted). I'm treating one boxcar scar with it, which i have since ten years. Till now I can not recognize any changes in the appeareance of the scar. No redness, no difference in size or deepness. I apply the iodine 2x per day. Since two weeks I also treat another scar with a different form of iodine, which is called Povidone-iodine (Here in Germany they sell a Povidone-iodine-compound which is called "Betaisodona"). Povidone-iodine does much more stain the skin so I'm only able to wear this kind of iodine by night. I don't know if this is only imagination, but the scar seems to be smaller in size. Dr. Derry mentioned the the stain on the skin is very importend for the regeneration process and maybe the deeper colored povidone iodine is the better form of iodine.
The only way to find it out is to try both forms of iodine. So I will continue the treatment and let you which scar responded better/faster to the treatment. Cheers!
please keep the treatment and if you can takes photos before and after the treatment .as all we can see from a optimum viewpoint the results, thanks