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He hopes to publicise his findings within 18 months? That's very interesting. Let's hope we get some good news!18 months? Great. More wait. Though some news is better then no news, but I wouldn't get my hopes too high up.
There are numerous scientific reports which claim that scientists believe that we are close to finding out the secret of regeneration. Even before year 2000, there are already such reports. Thus, this new finding isn't really new. I won't be too excited seriously.
I thought other scientific reports said similar things but they always concluded with things that were kind of vague regarding when a cure would be real like "Ultimately, we'll get there" or something like that. Not "In 18 months you'll find out what we found". So I got a bit excited. But yeah, if they've been saying that for over 10 years then I understand your reaction.
I've seen cites from 1997 were they say without being vague scar free healing will be here in 5 years. It is just the use of white coat (who try not to declare their interests, but usually with a little bit of research you can elucidate their interests) authority in marketing (oldest trick in the book), propogating shit to get you sucked into what they want to sell.
A tip for you. Any expert that talks future tense 'its nearly here', check what company, check his motivations, question his motivations.
To me if anyone claims to be an expert and they say something will be here in 5 year, ignore them; they are trying to condition you, by aggresively using their authority, to accept their products.
Study marketing history. This future tense shit is retrospective bullshit, every three year it is three year, then, when the old group of scarred fucks have become apathetic waiting, in two year they tell the new group of misinformed scarred it is five year until it is here. Then before you know it you've bought all the shit and your money has been wasted, and you are in a care home.
The only thing you can go on is fact. Like the fact scar free healing has been done in the past - cited.
Thanks for shedding some light on all of that, seabs135. It's appreciated.
He hopes to publicise his findings within 18 months? That's very interesting. Let's hope we get some good news!18 months? Great. More wait. Though some news is better then no news, but I wouldn't get my hopes too high up.
There are numerous scientific reports which claim that scientists believe that we are close to finding out the secret of regeneration. Even before year 2000, there are already such reports. Thus, this new finding isn't really new. I won't be too excited seriously.
I thought other scientific reports said similar things but they always concluded with things that were kind of vague regarding when a cure would be real like "Ultimately, we'll get there" or something like that. Not "In 18 months you'll find out what we found". So I got a bit excited. But yeah, if they've been saying that for over 10 years then I understand your reaction.
I've seen cites from 1997 were they say without being vague scar free healing will be here in 5 years. It is just the use of white coat (who try not to declare their interests, but usually with a little bit of research you can elucidate their interests) authority in marketing (oldest trick in the book), propogating shit to get you sucked into what they want to sell.
A tip for you. Any expert that talks future tense 'its nearly here', check what company, check his motivations, question his motivations.
To me if anyone claims to be an expert and they say something will be here in 5 year, ignore them; they are trying to condition you, by aggresively using their authority, to accept their products.
Study marketing history. This future tense shit is retrospective bullshit, every three year it is three year, then, when the old group of scarred fucks have become apathetic waiting, in two year they tell the new group of misinformed scarred it is five year until it is here. Then before you know it you've bought all the shit and your money has been wasted, and you are in a care home.
The only thing you can go on is fact. Like the fact scar free healing has been done in the past - cited.
Thanks for shedding some light on all of that, seabs135. It's appreciated.
Its all bull shit.
michael24, i'm not trying to start an argument (maybe a debate though), but i don't think we should give up faith just yet. stem cell injection is acompletely different approach than scar prevention or abrasion, where the aim is to supress the natural formation of scar tissue.BRD has always claimed that he would like to see stem cell injection in conjunction with subcision or fraxel which would take advantage of the body's natural healing mechanisms to provide maximum results. however, i don't think just because acne scars are not open wounds does not necessarily mean stem cells would be ineffective. i think in the case of the severed finger, yes, i agree stem cells would only work immediately after in order to restore functioning, but in the case of acne scars, i think it would work even on the most aged scars. the reason i think that is this, at the scale of most acne scars, it would take only a minor wound to trigger the healing process, and what is an injection but a minor wound? the way i see it, stem cells would not do much to heal the epidermis, but would help rebuild sub-dermal tissue and build up the structure of the skin. the hope is that epidermal skin would eventually shed and allow healthy skin underneath to eventually show.
the fact of the matter is, we don't know, and it's not just magic we are banking on, but sound science.
i would also like to echo some of the previous post and encourage anyone who has had stem cell injections to document and share with us. thanks.
I TOO AGREE WITH YOU..BECAUSE THE STEM CELLS ARE NATURALLY ATTRACTED TO THE WOUND SITE...I DO THINK SOMETHING LIKE NEEDLING/DERMAROLLING WOULD DEFINETLY HELP THICKEN THE EPIDERMIS WHILE THE STEM CELLS BEGIN REPAIR UNDERNEATH...
michael24, i'm not trying to start an argument (maybe a debate though), but i don't think we should give up faith just yet. stem cell injection is acompletely different approach than scar prevention or abrasion, where the aim is to supress the natural formation of scar tissue.BRD has always claimed that he would like to see stem cell injection in conjunction with subcision or fraxel which would take advantage of the body's natural healing mechanisms to provide maximum results. however, i don't think just because acne scars are not open wounds does not necessarily mean stem cells would be ineffective. i think in the case of the severed finger, yes, i agree stem cells would only work immediately after in order to restore functioning, but in the case of acne scars, i think it would work even on the most aged scars. the reason i think that is this, at the scale of most acne scars, it would take only a minor wound to trigger the healing process, and what is an injection but a minor wound? the way i see it, stem cells would not do much to heal the epidermis, but would help rebuild sub-dermal tissue and build up the structure of the skin. the hope is that epidermal skin would eventually shed and allow healthy skin underneath to eventually show.
the fact of the matter is, we don't know, and it's not just magic we are banking on, but sound science.
well;
I am getting sceptical about this thread, does anyone have answers to the questions:
1-dont you think the stem cells will heal the wound only(from subcision or fraxel)without adding thickness to the skin?
2-If it adds volume to the wound how we can control this increase in volume?(wouldn't there be a hypertrophic scar)?
i would also like to echo some of the previous post and encourage anyone who has had stem cell injections to document and share with us. thanks.
I TOO AGREE WITH YOU..BECAUSE THE STEM CELLS ARE NATURALLY ATTRACTED TO THE WOUND SITE...I DO THINK SOMETHING LIKE NEEDLING/DERMAROLLING WOULD DEFINETLY HELP THICKEN THE EPIDERMIS WHILE THE STEM CELLS BEGIN REPAIR UNDERNEATH...
well
I am getting sceptical about this thread, does anyone have answers to the questions:
1-dont you think the stem cells will heal the wound only(from subcision or fraxel)without adding thickness to the skin?
2-If it adds volume to the wound how we can control this increase in volume?(wouldn't there be a hypertrophic scar)?
After reading various posts on this topic, I decided to make my own post with my own journey using Stem Cell treatment for scarring on my nose.
You can follow my post at acne.org here:
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Experienc...Tr-t260545.html
Within this post, there is the link to my blog that shows pictures.
I will be showing before & after pictures if you are interested!
I thought other scientific reports said similar things but they always concluded with things that were kind of vague regarding when a cure would be real like "Ultimately, we'll get there" or something like that. Not "In 18 months you'll find out what we found". So I got a bit excited. But yeah, if they've been saying that for over 10 years then I understand your reaction.
Yeah they had the same effect of "ultimately we will get there" or something along that line. Like for example, in 1999 it was discovered that mammals (specifically the MRI mouse can heal a complete hole through the ear without any trace of scarring). Then back in 1994, I saw a report on an earlier ECM with very remarkable healing ability. were you here 3 years ago when we were talking about Acell? Everyone here thought the release date of acell would mean we would have flawless skin by now. It didn't. I wouldn't deny Acell has very remarkable healing abilities but obviously we are still scarred right now if not we wouldn't be here. Then we had Dr Jones trying Acell on a scalp patient, everyone thought that after that experiment again we would be able to prove scarless healing. But it didn't turn out our way. Then how about Juvista earlier on? Everyone was also talking about it like it was scarless healing when juvista is obviously no way scarless healing. It is common for people like us to get "excited" on every single piece of news. Even more recently, there was a report that we are able to create a blastema already. Which theoretically mean we should have scarless healing already. Edit: Seabs, maybe you were right that earlier reports were marketing propaganda. But Juvista and other new innovations are basically treated like scarless healing by our people. Anything that is new, its going to be scarless healing. How many of you believed that Fraxel gives 90% improvement back then? Then again, using the marketing propaganda theory, this Kiwi doctor might just be claiming that he is close to the secret of regeneration just to get attention to himself. Its like there are worldwide claims of cure of AIDs by various people in the world, would you drink their secret potion or try any of their healing techniques if you really had AIDs (you probably would because you are desperate but what are the chances it will work?). You might think I sound extremely skeptical, but after what i've seen posted through this years I really won't really get excited until there's concrete proof rather then "I think im on too something" claim.
i can't remember who, but this is the first time a member of the forum has claimed to have had significant results from this procedure. i think even claiming to be without scars anymore, hence the excitement. personally, i have no great hope, nor am i completely skeptical. i would just like to see some photographed results from the people on this forum. whether there's 100% or 0% improvement makes no difference to me. i would just like to be able to put this mystery and debate to rest.
i can't remember who, but this is the first time a member of the forum has claimed to have had significant results from this procedure. i think even claiming to be without scars anymore, hence the excitement. personally, i have no great hope, nor am i completely skeptical. i would just like to see some photographed results from the people on this forum. whether there's 100% or 0% improvement makes no difference to me. i would just like to be able to put this mystery and debate to rest.
There are claims that through needling alone someone removed their scars 100%. Care to try? I mean i don't want to be a skeptic, i would be the happiest person in the world if scars can be removed. But at least show photo proof the very least.
Though, click on the video below: (Which shows a person healing a dent in his jaw) through stem cells. Seems very remarkable, how would this translate to scars though? http://www.nathannewmanmd.com/
Found this on wikipedia regarding about stem cells on wound healing: "In one experimental method in regenerative medicine, stem cells are used to stimulate the growth of human tissues. In an adult, wounded tissue is most often replaced by scar tissue, which is characterized in the skin by disorganized collagen structure, loss of hair follicles and irregular vascular structure. In the case of wounded fetal tissue, however, wounded tissue is replaced with normal tissue through the activity of stem cells.[25] A possible method for tissue regeneration in adults is to place adult stem cell "seeds" inside a tissue bed "soil" in a wound bed and allow the stem cells to stimulate differentiation in the tissue bed cells. This method elicits a regenerative response more similar to fetal wound-healing than adult scar tissue formation.[25] Researchers are still investigating different aspects of the "soil" tissue that are conducive to regeneration.[25]"
Seems like stem cell has the potential, but there are unknown aspects that we do not know to induce full scarless healing.
I thought other scientific reports said similar things but they always concluded with things that were kind of vague regarding when a cure would be real like "Ultimately, we'll get there" or something like that. Not "In 18 months you'll find out what we found". So I got a bit excited. But yeah, if they've been saying that for over 10 years then I understand your reaction.
How about this two reports "I do not have acne", and you will see why im not too overly excited on the kiwi doctor's claim:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/990039.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/590983.stm This two report are back in 2000. THat is 10 years ago! And both claim that scars can be removed, or something similar to that effect. Will you be very excited if this happened to you 10 years ago? Yes I believe so, but you will be dissapointed if you find out that there are people here still having scars 10 years later. The only reason I can think of is that the "gel" and the "scaffold" does assist in healing but is not completely scarless healing as claimed.
I thought other scientific reports said similar things but they always concluded with things that were kind of vague regarding when a cure would be real like "Ultimately, we'll get there" or something like that. Not "In 18 months you'll find out what we found". So I got a bit excited. But yeah, if they've been saying that for over 10 years then I understand your reaction.How about this two reports "I do not have acne", and you will see why im not too overly excited on the kiwi doctor's claim:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/990039.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/590983.stm This two report are back in 2000. THat is 10 years ago! And both claim that scars can be removed, or something similar to that effect. Will you be very excited if this happened to you 10 years ago? Yes I believe so, but you will be dissapointed if you find out that there are people here still having scars 10 years later. The only reason I can think of is that the "gel" and the "scaffold" does assist in healing but is not completely scarless healing as claimed.
Scar free healing is cited. The stuff we all usually talk about in the main are products (sold mainly on the illusive '90% cure'), sold by people using retrospective sales BS.
Back onto scarring, scarring is the fibroblasts over expressing collagen on the collagen fibrils on any soft tissue that is wounded.
This over expression can range from clumps and lumps of scar, from tiny over expressions that block the fibrils (crosslink, denature) to block regeneration, to massive overexpressions that also block the fibrils but leave keloids. In our non wounded tissues we have something that stops this over expression of collagen, which enables our stemcells and intercellular cells to crawl through the tissues. That stuff is decorin.
Decorin is immediately absent in every wound. In every wound we scar. However, decorin at 100 to 200nM keeps the fibroblast proliferation static, this stops the over expression of collagen (i.e. scar)
Continuing the debate about medical treatments and scarring... Do any of you believe that stem cell treatment can improve and even eradicate scars?
I am having my treatment on March 20th and I am taking before and after pictures. I believe that this will be a break through in technology for scarring.
Yeah they had the same effect of "ultimately we will get there" or something along that line. Like for example, in 1999 it was discovered that mammals (specifically the MRI mouse can heal a complete hole through the ear without any trace of scarring). Then back in 1994, I saw a report on an earlier ECM with very remarkable healing ability. were you here 3 years ago when we were talking about Acell? Everyone here thought the release date of acell would mean we would have flawless skin by now. It didn't. I wouldn't deny Acell has very remarkable healing abilities but obviously we are still scarred right now if not we wouldn't be here. Then we had Dr Jones trying Acell on a scalp patient, everyone thought that after that experiment again we would be able to prove scarless healing. But it didn't turn out our way. Then how about Juvista earlier on? Everyone was also talking about it like it was scarless healing when juvista is obviously no way scarless healing. It is common for people like us to get "excited" on every single piece of news. Even more recently, there was a report that we are able to create a blastema already. Which theoretically mean we should have scarless healing already. Edit: Seabs, maybe you were right that earlier reports were marketing propaganda. But Juvista and other new innovations are basically treated like scarless healing by our people. Anything that is new, its going to be scarless healing. How many of you believed that Fraxel gives 90% improvement back then? Then again, using the marketing propaganda theory, this Kiwi doctor might just be claiming that he is close to the secret of regeneration just to get attention to himself. Its like there are worldwide claims of cure of AIDs by various people in the world, would you drink their secret potion or try any of their healing techniques if you really had AIDs (you probably would because you are desperate but what are the chances it will work?). You might think I sound extremely skeptical, but after what i've seen posted through this years I really won't really get excited until there's concrete proof rather then "I think im on too something" claim.
How about this two reports "I do not have acne", and you will see why im not too overly excited on the kiwi doctor's claim:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/990039.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/590983.stm This two report are back in 2000. THat is 10 years ago! And both claim that scars can be removed, or something similar to that effect. Will you be very excited if this happened to you 10 years ago? Yes I believe so, but you will be dissapointed if you find out that there are people here still having scars 10 years later. The only reason I can think of is that the "gel" and the "scaffold" does assist in healing but is not completely scarless healing as claimed.
Yes, it's very weird to me that they've been talking about it for over a decade and it's still not here. You'd think they'd be smart enough to have figured it out at this point, seeing that they seem to already have been so knowledgeable about the whole thing in the 1990s! Very weird. 🙁
Scar free healing is cited. The stuff we all usually talk about in the main are products (sold mainly on the illusive '90% cure'), sold by people using retrospective sales BS.Back onto scarring, scarring is the fibroblasts over expressing collagen on the collagen fibrils on any soft tissue that is wounded.
This over expression can range from clumps and lumps of scar, from tiny over expressions that block the fibrils (crosslink, denature) to block regeneration, to massive overexpressions that also block the fibrils but leave keloids. In our non wounded tissues we have something that stops this over expression of collagen, which enables our stemcells and intercellular cells to crawl through the tissues. That stuff is decorin.
Decorin is immediately absent in every wound. In every wound we scar. However, decorin at 100 to 200nM keeps the fibroblast proliferation static, this stops the over expression of collagen (i.e. scar)
If it is so that scarless healing can be done at this point, then why is BRD struggling to figure out the "scarless healing puzzle"? Like he says in this thread from '08?
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Growth-Fa...06#entry2365906
I'm not saying you're wrong, seabs135, nor am I attacking you. I just think it's surprising.
In any case, I'm gonna do some more research, guys. Starting with reading the scarless healing thread. I might talk to some local surgeons and see what they think about this whole thing. If I do, I'll of course let you know what they said.
Yeah they had the same effect of "ultimately we will get there" or something along that line. Like for example, in 1999 it was discovered that mammals (specifically the MRI mouse can heal a complete hole through the ear without any trace of scarring). Then back in 1994, I saw a report on an earlier ECM with very remarkable healing ability. were you here 3 years ago when we were talking about Acell? Everyone here thought the release date of acell would mean we would have flawless skin by now. It didn't. I wouldn't deny Acell has very remarkable healing abilities but obviously we are still scarred right now if not we wouldn't be here. Then we had Dr Jones trying Acell on a scalp patient, everyone thought that after that experiment again we would be able to prove scarless healing. But it didn't turn out our way. Then how about Juvista earlier on? Everyone was also talking about it like it was scarless healing when juvista is obviously no way scarless healing. It is common for people like us to get "excited" on every single piece of news. Even more recently, there was a report that we are able to create a blastema already. Which theoretically mean we should have scarless healing already. Edit: Seabs, maybe you were right that earlier reports were marketing propaganda. But Juvista and other new innovations are basically treated like scarless healing by our people. Anything that is new, its going to be scarless healing. How many of you believed that Fraxel gives 90% improvement back then? Then again, using the marketing propaganda theory, this Kiwi doctor might just be claiming that he is close to the secret of regeneration just to get attention to himself. Its like there are worldwide claims of cure of AIDs by various people in the world, would you drink their secret potion or try any of their healing techniques if you really had AIDs (you probably would because you are desperate but what are the chances it will work?). You might think I sound extremely skeptical, but after what i've seen posted through this years I really won't really get excited until there's concrete proof rather then "I think im on too something" claim.
How about this two reports "I do not have acne", and you will see why im not too overly excited on the kiwi doctor's claim:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/990039.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/590983.stm This two report are back in 2000. THat is 10 years ago! And both claim that scars can be removed, or something similar to that effect. Will you be very excited if this happened to you 10 years ago? Yes I believe so, but you will be dissapointed if you find out that there are people here still having scars 10 years later. The only reason I can think of is that the "gel" and the "scaffold" does assist in healing but is not completely scarless healing as claimed.
Yes, it's very weird to me that they've been talking about it for over a decade and it's still not here. You'd think they'd be smart enough to have figured it out at this point, seeing that they seem to already have been so knowledgeable about the whole thing in the 1990s! Very weird. 🙁
Scar free healing is cited. The stuff we all usually talk about in the main are products (sold mainly on the illusive '90% cure'), sold by people using retrospective sales BS.Back onto scarring, scarring is the fibroblasts over expressing collagen on the collagen fibrils on any soft tissue that is wounded.
This over expression can range from clumps and lumps of scar, from tiny over expressions that block the fibrils (crosslink, denature) to block regeneration, to massive overexpressions that also block the fibrils but leave keloids. In our non wounded tissues we have something that stops this over expression of collagen, which enables our stemcells and intercellular cells to crawl through the tissues. That stuff is decorin.
Decorin is immediately absent in every wound. In every wound we scar. However, decorin at 100 to 200nM keeps the fibroblast proliferation static, this stops the over expression of collagen (i.e. scar)
If it is so that scarless healing can be done at this point, then why is BRD struggling to figure out the "the scarless healing puzzle"? Like he says in this thread from way back in '08?
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Growth-Fa...06#entry2365906
I'm not saying you're wrong, seabs135, nor am I attacking you. I just think it's surprising.
In any case, I'm gonna do some more research, guys. Starting with reading the scarless healing thread. I might talk to some local surgeons and see what they think about this whole thing. If I do, I'll of course let you know what they said.
I sincerely want you to question everything. I also can not see any ad hominem attacks on me here.
BTW if you did attack me, you are not really attacking me; the cites are not my work and you'd be attacking the messenger.
Anyway back on to scar free healing.
Its cited past tense.
Scarring is the result of fibroblast proliferation over expressing collagen over a period of time. This over expression of collagen blocks off the fibrils, when the fibrils are blocked off with scar, the stem cells and intercellular cells cannot fit through and nit site specific tissue through the collagen. The thing you have to do to stop scarring is stop the fibroblast proliferation on the fibrils, hence keep the proliferation of fibroblasts static. This has been done with decorin at 100nM 200nM cited. Decorin added to a wound has also resulted in complete scar free healing, cited. Decorin is absent in wounds cited.
This post should give many here more than hope. It's spelling out what's to come.BRD, you hit the nail on the head when you said " sometimes an extension of religious perspectives " in regards to why certain countries haven't advanced in the area of stem cell research.
America has just gone through one of the worst periods in our history under the fascist leadership of Bush/Cheney, along with their christofascist supporters. We lived through a period where, pharmacutical companies, conspired with government officials as well as physicians themselves to drain the wallets of average citizens. Ignorance reigned king here for eight long years.
Within days we will be heading in a totally new direction under president Barack Obama. With it, will come advances in many areas where we have fallen behind.
The information you listed here is very promising. I look forward to hearing more about it.
I think a clear example of Fascism would be taking over banks, auto manufactures and our health care system. The previous Administration supported and funded adult stem cell research which is responsible for this treatment as well as many other treatments. Whereas embryonic has only given us cancer in lab animals. Billions of dollars have been wasted on embryonic stem cell research because leftist traitors have pushed it in order to try to legitimise abortion. These billions could have been used to advance adult stem cell research. How far have we been setback by these traitors not to mention how much grant money will now dry up because of the destruction of our economy that is currently under way. Everyone should look up Cloward-Pivens to see what the traitor in chief has planed for us.
This post should give many here more than hope. It's spelling out what's to come.BRD, you hit the nail on the head when you said " sometimes an extension of religious perspectives " in regards to why certain countries haven't advanced in the area of stem cell research.
America has just gone through one of the worst periods in our history under the fascist leadership of Bush/Cheney, along with their christofascist supporters. We lived through a period where, pharmacutical companies, conspired with government officials as well as physicians themselves to drain the wallets of average citizens. Ignorance reigned king here for eight long years.
Within days we will be heading in a totally new direction under president Barack Obama. With it, will come advances in many areas where we have fallen behind.
The information you listed here is very promising. I look forward to hearing more about it.
I think a clear example of Fascism would be taking over banks, auto manufactures and our health care system. The previous Administration supported and funded adult stem cell research which is responsible for this treatment as well as many other treatments. Whereas embryonic has only given us cancer in lab animals. Billions of dollars have been wasted on embryonic stem cell research because leftist traitors have pushed it in order to try to legitimise abortion. These billions could have been used to advance adult stem cell research. How far have we been setback by these traitors not to mention how much grant money will now dry up because of the destruction of our economy that is currently under way. Everyone should look up Cloward-Pivens to see what the traitor in chief has planed for us.
lol
/shakes head
came across this article here. Thought it was an interesting read:
http://www.usnews.com/science/articles/201...p-you-heal.html
and here's an article/video on using prp to grow hair.
http://www.wtsp.com/news/mostpop/story.asp...mp;provider=top
Im not sure whether to get this treatment or not. I'm still confused on whether the stem cells actually gets rid of the scar tissue and damaged skin then rebuilds the skin ... or if this is just some expensive filler. BRD said he will send me his patients before and after in June which would be over a year after he preformed the treatment on his patients.
I'm still confused on whether the stem cells actually gets rid of the scar tissue and damaged skin then rebuilds the skin ... or if this is just some expensive filler.
It's basically the latter. It doesn't rebuild your skin 100% at all. It does seem to fix something but whatever that is (it's kind of fague to me too) is underneath the skin/scars. It's basically lipofilling, if you ask me.