I caught wind of juvista many moons ago maybe around 2001. I don't have any faith in Renovo at all. Waited like everyone else for those 3 FDA required clinical phases to pass and now that it has. Well Marks promise on scar-less healing was a lie.

 

Then I caught wind of ACELL- long before it got on Oprah. No phases since ECM has been used for a long time now on rotator cuffs. FDA approved, Prescription only (That sucks!!!!!) Expensive (that also sucks) No powder suppliers- only sheets (super suck!)

 

So far no scar revision results worth a damn. Some hair guy playing camera games to make us think otherwise (thief!)

 

It regrows fingers, but that is something we could do as children so I only see that result as a reawakening of something we could already do, but lost because of the genetic changes we go through due to age.

 

It does however work well with scarless healing in animals, and healing wounds on the elderly with circulation issues. It also works well on rotator cuffs and hearts.

 

We need to see a "Skin Injury" specific version of this ECM, and we need easier access to it- More specifically the powder "pixie dust" version.

 

Anything can be harmful if it's misused. The FDA approves lots of things like the meat in my freezer. I didn't need a doctors note to get that.

 

ACELL we are talking about a billion dollar per year market here. You need to partner with Johnson and Johnson and make a salve/neosporin version of this and other "Over the counter" treatments for wounds that don't require a doctors consent to purchase, as well as a price drop.

 

Take if from a 9 + year searcher. This is something I believe the human race will sort out, but it sucks that some of you Companies are either ignoring us outright or making it to harder for us to get what you offer. Stop it! We have money. We want to give that money to someone who will help. Come get this money! Help us!

Hello and welcome to acne.org.

Here's an ECM which is skin injury specific:

http://www.teibio.com/PriMatrix.aspx

Haven't seen any results from its usage, though. And aren't the results from the 3rd Juvista trials going to be shown next year? But yeah...it doesn't seem like it's going to be able to do the trick judging by the outcome of the 2nd trials.

I caught wind of juvista many moons ago maybe around 2001. I don't have any faith in Renovo at all. Waited like everyone else for those 3 FDA required clinical phases to pass and now that it has. Well Marks promise on scar-less healing was a lie.

 

Then I caught wind of ACELL- long before it got on Oprah. No phases since ECM has been used for a long time now on rotator cuffs. FDA approved, Prescription only (That sucks!!!!!) Expensive (that also sucks) No powder suppliers- only sheets (super suck!)

 

So far no scar revision results worth a damn. Some hair guy playing camera games to make us think otherwise (thief!)

 

It regrows fingers, but that is something we could do as children so I only see that result as a reawakening of something we could already do, but lost because of the genetic changes we go through due to age.

 

It does however work well with scarless healing in animals, and healing wounds on the elderly with circulation issues. It also works well on rotator cuffs and hearts.

 

We need to see a "Skin Injury" specific version of this ECM, and we need easier access to it- More specifically the powder "pixie dust" version.

 

Anything can be harmful if it's misused. The FDA approves lots of things like the meat in my freezer. I didn't need a doctors note to get that.

 

ACELL we are talking about a billion dollar per year market here. You need to partner with Johnson and Johnson and make a salve/neosporin version of this and other "Over the counter" treatments for wounds that don't require a doctors consent to purchase, as well as a price drop.

 

Take if from a 9 + year searcher. This is something I believe the human race will sort out, but it sucks that some of you Companies are either ignoring us outright or making it to harder for us to get what you offer. Stop it! We have money. We want to give that money to someone who will help. Come get this money! Help us!

 

Hello and welcome to acne.org.

 

Here's an ECM which is skin injury specific:

 

http://www.teibio.com/PriMatrix.aspx

 

Haven't seen any results from its usage, though. And aren't the results from the 3rd Juvista trials going to be shown next year? But yeah...it doesn't seem like it's going to be able to do the trick judging by the outcome of the 2nd trials.

 

ECM is not biased to a tissue, it is basically the same stuff. What you find works on a reptile would work on a mammal. It is also neutral at any soft tissue site on the body, what will work on a heart will work on skin etc.

The key for ECM, as I keep saying, is denaturing. If it is not denatured by artificial chemicals, then the fibrils wont be blocked up, the intercellular cells will be able to travel through the ECM to create the sweat glands, the drainage systems and the perfect site specific tissue etc. IF it is denatured 10% (10% of the fibrils get blocked up) you will get 10% scarring, if it is denatured 20% you will get 20% scarring and so on.

All ECM is, is like an empty warehouse with non blocked walkways for cells to travel through.

Though I have just briefly looked at the site, I can see that this companies market is skin (specifically unhealing ulcers), and that is the reason they write up for use in skin. Their ECM can be used anywhere, and if it was non denatured you'd get site specific tissue.

Though I have just briefly looked at the site, I can see that this companies market is skin (specifically unhealing ulcers), and that is the reason they write up for use in skin. Their ECM can be used anywhere, and if it was non denatured you'd get site specific tissue.

Well, I just sent them an e-mail to ask about the denaturing... They probably won't say anything, though. Just like the oh so customer friendly CorMatrix.

As expected, no e-mail from the PriMatrix people, yet. I might try to call them on the phone later. Could be interesting. lol Ring, ring, ring, banana phone! hahaha O Lord, what am I saying? lol..

I called the PriMatrix people a few days back. The best way to get it is to speak with your GP and send him to the site and have him contact them. Both this and ACELL are prescription only. See a derm- see a doctor or a plastic surgeon and print out a few pages from the website. ACELL will send you an email containing the exact contact info for your doctor if you call and ask them for it. I keep hearing the "denatured" line. Are we suggesting that this is why we have not seen results from users here who have experimented with it or that leg pulling hair dude. How does one mess up and nature it? I'm confused. I know you cant use latex gloves (nitrile might be ok) and the skin/wound has to be cleaned, but not with something like rubbing alcohol, and the sheet has to remain wet with a saline patch or something like that.

I called the PriMatrix people a few days back. The best way to get it is to speak with your GP and send him to the site and have him contact them. Both this and ACELL are prescription only. See a derm- see a doctor or a plastic surgeon and print out a few pages from the website. ACELL will send you an email containing the exact contact info for your doctor if you call and ask them for it. I keep hearing the "denatured" line. Are we suggesting that this is why we have not seen results from users here who have experimented with it or that leg pulling hair dude. How does one mess up and nature it? I'm confused. I know you cant use latex gloves (nitrile might be ok) and the skin/wound has to be cleaned, but not with something like rubbing alcohol, and the sheet has to remain wet with a saline patch or something like that.

Yeah whether or not it's denatured seems to play a role. Seabs135 has explained this a number of times in the thread in detail. Just read through the last few pages and you'll find his explanation.

Here's an ECM which apparently is non-denatured but it's only allowed to be used for R&D.

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/Produc..._KEY&F=SPEC

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/etc/medialib/d...mp/e0282dat.pdf

Excerpt: Produced in vitro, MaxGel human extracellular matrix (ECM) provides a rich three-dimensional environment to promote cellular proliferation. MaxGel ECM contains human extracellular matrix components including collagens, laminin, fibronectin, tenascin, elastin, and a number of proteoglycans and glycosaminoglycans. The cell culture derived human basement membrane extract (BME) effectively reproduces the cooperative interaction of epithelia and mesenchyme during development and in organotypic cell culture of skin. It promotes cell growth and migration, and has been shown to support the proliferation of many cell types, including human embryonic stem cells, neural stem cells, neurons, glia, astrocytes, fibroblasts, hepatocytes, and keratinocytes.

This cell culture derived human BME is not denatured nor chloroform sterilized. It provides for a more tissuelike environment, due to the non-denatured acid-soluble collagens, which form fibrils through a self-assembly process at neutral pH. MaxGel extracellular matrix is supplied as a ~1 mg/ml solution in Dulbecco's Modified Eagle's Medium (DMEM) and is compatible with all

culture media.

As expected, no e-mail from the PriMatrix people, yet. I might try to call them on the phone later. Could be interesting. lol Ring, ring, ring, banana phone! hahaha O Lord, what am I saying? lol..

heh, heh

I called the PriMatrix people a few days back. The best way to get it is to speak with your GP and send him to the site and have him contact them. Both this and ACELL are prescription only. See a derm- see a doctor or a plastic surgeon and print out a few pages from the website. ACELL will send you an email containing the exact contact info for your doctor if you call and ask them for it. I keep hearing the "denatured" line. Are we suggesting that this is why we have not seen results from users here who have experimented with it or that leg pulling hair dude. How does one mess up and nature it? I'm confused. I know you cant use latex gloves (nitrile might be ok) and the skin/wound has to be cleaned, but not with something like rubbing alcohol, and the sheet has to remain wet with a saline patch or something like that.

 

Yeah whether or not it's denatured seems to play a role. Seabs135 has explained this a number of times in the thread in detail. Just read through the last few pages and you'll find his explanation.

 

Here's an ECM which apparently is non-denatured but it's only allowed to be used for R&D.

 

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/Produc..._KEY&F=SPEC

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/etc/medialib/d...mp/e0282dat.pdf

 

Excerpt: Produced in vitro, MaxGel human extracellular matrix (ECM) provides a rich three-dimensional environment to promote cellular proliferation. MaxGel ECM contains human extracellular matrix components including collagens, laminin, fibronectin, tenascin, elastin, and a number of proteoglycans and glycosaminoglycans. The cell culture derived human basement membrane extract (BME) effectively reproduces the cooperative interaction of epithelia and mesenchyme during development and in organotypic cell culture of skin. It promotes cell growth and migration, and has been shown to support the proliferation of many cell types, including human embryonic stem cells, neural stem cells, neurons, glia, astrocytes, fibroblasts, hepatocytes, and keratinocytes.

 

This cell culture derived human BME is not denatured nor chloroform sterilized. It provides for a more tissuelike environment, due to the non-denatured acid-soluble collagens, which form fibrils through a self-assembly process at neutral pH. MaxGel extracellular matrix is supplied as a ~1 mg/ml solution in Dulbecco's Modified Eagle's Medium (DMEM) and is compatible with all

culture media.

 

Is it a marketing non denatured? or truely non denatured that will bring scar free healing, like the ECM your body creates to regenerate your tissues?

Is it a marketing non denatured? or truely non denatured that will bring scar free healing, like the ECM your body creates to regenerate your tissues?

I don't think it's a marketing term in this case seeing the nature of the company is what it is:

Sigma-Aldrich is a leading Life Science and High Technology company. Our chemical and biochemical products and kits are used in scientific research, including genomic and proteomic research, biotechnology, pharmaceutical development, the diagnosis of disease and as key components in pharmaceutical, diagnostic and other high technology manufacturing.

So my guess would be that it's an actual non-denatured ECM.

well, since i didnt get the sheets to work the way they should, i ordered the powder.

and i ordered it here (i even sent them an email whether they really sell the powdered version and they said yes)

www gosouthernmd.com/store/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=35415

(the 3 w's are important or the link doesnt work)

and it arrived yesterday. but customs wont hand it out so i cant get my hands on it to experiment.

maybe someone else will do the job.

^^^ What does it mean that "customs wouldn't give it to you"????

well, they regard the powder as a pharmaceutical, which is forbidden to import internationally (from outside europe) by law in my country. god knows why they didnt confiscate the sheets too

well, they regard the powder as a pharmaceutical, which is forbidden to import internationally (from outside europe) by law in my country. god knows why they didnt confiscate the sheets too

So could I get it in the USA?

yes im pretty sure about that (since when you order something nationally, customs wont check) and click on image 2 on the site. it shows the powder!

Is it a marketing non denatured? or truely non denatured that will bring scar free healing, like the ECM your body creates to regenerate your tissues?

 

I don't think it's a marketing term in this case seeing the nature of the company is what it is:

 

Sigma-Aldrich is a leading Life Science and High Technology company. Our chemical and biochemical products and kits are used in scientific research, including genomic and proteomic research, biotechnology, pharmaceutical development, the diagnosis of disease and as key components in pharmaceutical, diagnostic and other high technology manufacturing.

 

So my guess would be that it's an actual non-denatured ECM.

 

There is a simple test to see if it is markting or not.

If you put it on your wound and your wound turns completely scar free (like your non wounded tissues which which regenerate with your bodies non denatured ECM) then it is non denatured.

If it scars then it is denatured.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11601578

http://www.latest-science-articles.com/Med...-Skin-4804.html

http://woundsinternational.com/article.php...=163&page=1

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9696898

http://www.jpedsurg.org/article/S0022-3468...0629-1/abstract

http://ajp.amjpathol.org/cgi/content/full/165/3/753

Hey I noticed you updated your photo series of the ACell trial with a new picture, solo_premium. Looks a bit better again, doesn't it? And you're only about halfway through the 3 month period that Dr. Cooley recommended! So it's still very interesting to me. Other people may have given up on ACell completely but I'm still following your photo series with great interest.

/

Btw, there was this guy on a surgeon's website who asked what he thought of Juvista's potential. But the surgeon said he had never heard of it... So I wrote a bit after which the surgeon thanked me for the helpful info. haha I couldn't believe the surgeon who's expertise was scar revision etc. had never heard of Juvista!

There is a simple test to see if it is markting or not.

 

If you put it on your wound and your wound turns completely scar free (like your non wounded tissues which which regenerate with your bodies non denatured ECM) then it is non denatured.

 

If it scars then it is denatured.

I'd bet you $1000 that it is non-denatured. It would be hard if not impossible to get a proper researcher/surgeon like e.g. Esther Middelkoop to use it on you, though. At least that's what I think.

yes im pretty sure about that (since when you order something nationally, customs wont check) and click on image 2 on the site. it shows the powder!

$39 to $69 for the powder? That's pretty affordable!

I said before, the tip of the fingers, including the bone, sometimes can regenerate by it self (only the tip)

I never saw a photo of acell regenerating normal skin in the body, (and there were many tests)

Here is an experiment of a year ago back with acell, dr jones met strictly with the method of use of acell (although some now say they do not use the corresponding method).

However, if i have seen in photo an excellent result with the use of another matrix, called apligraf (which, certainly in this forum nobody takes into account).

I said before, the tip of the fingers, including the bone, sometimes can regenerate by it self (only the tip)

i gotta admit, personal experience, some years ago i accidentally cut away a tiny top of my thumb (above the nail) with a bread cutter,it bled a lot, i did absolutely nothing, and it regenerated. if that happened on my forearm, i would have a scar.

Here is an experiment of a year ago back with acell, dr jones met strictly with the method of use of acell (although some now say they do not use the corresponding method).

wasnt it mentioned already that he messed up? as in, he let it dry out -> scab. the instructions say its essential to keep it moist.

drrobertjones.com/acell.html