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seabs135 - have your tried using Acell for your scars ?
Has anyone tried Acell ?
No, it is not available where I live.
I meant the other part of the article where it discusses the healing abilities of hands (regarding the acell photos of the mohs procedure to remove melanoma from a woman's hand) . Feet also have a similar ability.
So does every tissue on your body have a similar ability. The ECM is tyhe same in your feet as it is on your torso, heart or face.
I was talking about an earlier ECM that regenerated the skin on a face BTW.
The body doesn't heal the same everywhere. Some parts of the body heal better than others such as inside the mouth. Some people are prone to keloid formations yet these don't form in every location on the body, so there are differences.
The earlier ecm that regenerated the skin on a face (from a mohs procedure) was actually a product called Apligraf which I don't believe contains any ecm (edit: it does). I'm fairly certain it's created from foreskin tissue. As astounding as that appeared, I can send you a link where the same product was used to treat diabetic foot ulcers that although were able to heal, still formed scar tissue.
It would be very interesting to see a clinical trial, or at least some preliminary lab tests, where a product such as Acell also contained osteopontin antisense suppression, fetuin, histatin, tgfb regulation, edit: maybe even platelet rich plasma (a guy bitten by a snake had a hole the size of a softball in his stomach and autologous platelet rich plasma was used to treat the wound, still scarred but healed well, worth looking into) as well as bone marrow derived mesenchymal stem cells (im sure there are many others that I'm unaware of). Researchers at Johns Hopkins are currently experimenting with stem cell embedded sutures that enhance healing - they didn't say that it reduces scarring, but I would imagine quicker healing would do so. Human trials are 5 years away. There's no reason why they can't start human trials immediately, as they're using adult stem cells. I think a product like this would offer the best wound healing currently possible, and could be refined whenever another breakthrough is discovered until scar free healing is a reality.
seabs135 - have your tried using Acell for your scars ?
Has anyone tried Acell ?
No, it is not available where I live.
I meant the other part of the article where it discusses the healing abilities of hands (regarding the acell photos of the mohs procedure to remove melanoma from a woman's hand) . Feet also have a similar ability.
So does every tissue on your body have a similar ability. The ECM is tyhe same in your feet as it is on your torso, heart or face.
I was talking about an earlier ECM that regenerated the skin on a face BTW.
The body doesn't heal the same everywhere. Some parts of the body heal better than others such as inside the mouth. Some people are prone to keloid formations yet these don't form in every location on the body, so there are differences.
The earlier ecm that regenerated the skin on a face (from a mohs procedure) was actually a product called Apligraf which I don't believe contains any ecm. I'm fairly certain it's created from foreskin tissue. As astounding as that appeared, I can send you a link where the same product was used to treat diabetic foot ulcers that although were able to heal, still formed scar tissue.
I did not mention healing, I mentioned ECM is the same on every part of your body. The ECM can scar or regenerate. I also know that you do not scar in your mouth, your liver can regenerate. These tissues when injured (excluding the liver as you can get cirrosis if the injury is prolonged), do not produce excess collagen on the fibrils. Thus they do not scar. Also your unwounded adult tissues do not scar.
The way I know it is the scarring response is the same on every tissue which scars. That is over expression of collagen on the fibrils. BTW look at this cite below, ECM's decorin has stopped this problem.
Methods of preventing or reducing scarring with decorin or biglycanDecorin-treated wounds have been found to exhibit essentially no detectable scarring compared to control wounds not treated with decorin. The TGF-I-induced scarring process has been shown to be unique to adults and third trimester human fetuses, but is essentially absent in fetuses during the first two trimesters. The absence of scarring in fetal wounds has been correlated with the absence of TGFI in the wound bed. In contrast, the wound bed of adult tissue is heavily deposited with TGF-I and the fully healed wound is replaced by a reddened, furrowed scar containing extensively fibrous, collagenous matrix. The decorin-treated wounds were histologically normal and resembled fetal wounds in the first two trimesters.
The apligraf is a scaffold, a scaffold is something that degrades that allows the intercellular cells to grow through the fibrils (when the fibrils are slender). ECM is a scaffold that we produce that allows our intercellular cells to grow through the fibrils.
The way I understand it is, the scar free application of the appligaf happened because for some reason the intercellular cells could get through the fibrils. However this apligraf product is denatured, the fibrils are crosslinked, which makes it hard for intercellular cells to grow through the scaffold, when this happens your body rejects the scaffold in the places the intercellular cells cant get through and you get fibrotic encapsulation (scarring).
Erkki Ruoslahit has been researching the role of decorin (a tgf-b modulator) in wound healing for over 15 years. I think he is now affiliated with afirm and is working towards human clinical trials. There have been a lot of studies on decorin in wound healing on animals (rats, rabbits) with ostensibly successful results going back well into the mid 90s, but animals heal differently than humans - nevertheless it's still promising research that seems to be another part of the puzzle. There are also platelet derived growth factors, epidermal growth factors, and fibroblast growth factors that need to be factored in to the scarless healing equation. Hopefully everything comes together sooner than later.
Erkki Ruoslahit has been researching the role of decorin (a tgf-b modulator) in wound healing for over 15 years. I think he is now affiliated with afirm and is working towards human clinical trials. There have been a lot of studies on decorin in wound healing on animals (rats, rabbits) with ostensibly successful results going back well into the mid 90s, but animals heal differently than humans - nevertheless it's still promising research that seems to be another part of the puzzle. There are also platelet derived growth factors, epidermal growth factors, and fibroblast growth factors that need to be factored in to the scarless healing equation. Hopefully everything comes together sooner than later.
BTW this is a component of ECM, it keep the fibrils slender, stops the fibrils from over expressing collagen.
so basically no one has tried this stuff .... 87 pages of talk ...
Not just talking a lot of facts have been layed down but newcomers come and go and do not digest them.
mike manning emailed me saying they dont plan on doing any trails with acell for atrophic scaring .... my aunt who is a dermatologist did agree to do test it out on my scars but i think ill wait a few years for this acell stuff to actually work properly .. seabs you mentioned in a pm that i could still scar even when acell has been applied ? why is this ?
mike manning emailed me saying they dont plan on doing any trails with acell for atrophic scaring .... my aunt who is a dermatologist did agree to do test it out on my scars but i think ill wait a few years for this acell stuff to actually work properly .. seabs you mentioned in a pm that i could still scar even when acell has been applied ? why is this ?
ECM can either scar or regenerate, e.g. you are scarred because the collagen on your body crosslinked to build a scar wall. If it is denatured a lot fibrils encapsulated inside will be crosslinked, this means the intercellular cells can not crawl through the micro pores in the scaffold, the body rejects it were the encapsulation is, which brings fibrotic encapsulation, (collagen over expressed of the fibrils). If the pores remain open the intercellular cells can make site specific tissue because there is no scar wall. It all depends on the batch you were given, the way it has been handled and your protocol.
mike manning emailed me saying they dont plan on doing any trails with acell for atrophic scaring .... my aunt who is a dermatologist did agree to do test it out on my scars but i think ill wait a few years for this acell stuff to actually work properly .. seabs you mentioned in a pm that i could still scar even when acell has been applied ? why is this ?
v_singh,
As I understand it, the reason acell may not 100% regenerate skin tissue is if a) the powder was denatured in some way and / or b) the wound was not properly cared for during treatment. If either scenario happens to prove true, the opportunity to regenerate tissue where scarring exists is not lost. Acell can be tried numerous times should the tissue not regenerate properly.
Why donat you test Acell on one relatively small scar on an inconspicuous part of your body, if it would give you more confidence to try the product? This way, should the product not regenerate perfectly normal skin where scarring had existed during your first trial of Acell, you have minimized your losses. Once you have determined that the Acell obtained by your aunt is not denatured and the treatment protocol is done correctly, you can proceed to treat the rest of your scars.
The earlier ecm that regenerated the skin on a face (from a mohs procedure) was actually a product called Apligraf which I don't believe contains any ecm (edit: it does). I'm fairly certain it's created from foreskin tissue. As astounding as that appeared, I can send you a link where the same product was used to treat diabetic foot ulcers that although were able to heal, still formed scar tissue.
On closer examination, the nose skin excision that appeared to regenerate skin did in fact produce scar tissue. Shit.
The earlier ecm that regenerated the skin on a face (from a mohs procedure) was actually a product called Apligraf which I don't believe contains any ecm (edit: it does). I'm fairly certain it's created from foreskin tissue. As astounding as that appeared, I can send you a link where the same product was used to treat diabetic foot ulcers that although were able to heal, still formed scar tissue.
On closer examination, the nose skin excision that appeared to regenerate skin did in fact produce scar tissue. Shit.
Where?
There is no scar whats so ever.
If you had've been handed the unscarred picture (without telling you what it was and that there was two others coming) and I asked you to describe the picture: first you would link it is a person in the x age bracket. And then if I asked you to name were there is a scar and nudged you in the direction of say the cheek, you would find a scar in the cheek.
That is 100% scar free healing.
The earlier ecm that regenerated the skin on a face (from a mohs procedure) was actually a product called Apligraf which I don't believe contains any ecm (edit: it does). I'm fairly certain it's created from foreskin tissue. As astounding as that appeared, I can send you a link where the same product was used to treat diabetic foot ulcers that although were able to heal, still formed scar tissue.
On closer examination, the nose skin excision that appeared to regenerate skin did in fact produce scar tissue. Shit.
Where?
There is no scar whats so ever.
If you had've been handed the unscarred picture (without telling you what it was and that there was two others coming) and I asked you to describe the picture: first you would link it is a person in the x age bracket. And then if I asked you to name were there is a scar and nudged you in the direction of say the cheek, you would find a scar in the cheek.
That is 100% scar free healing.
Follow the edges of the excision, it may only look like scar free healing because the picture quality isn't that great and it appears the patient suffers from Rosacea or something (cheeks are red), which blends in with the nose. Also compare the nose to the forehead. That's scar tissue eagle eye. The case study also makes no mention of scarless healing, which they absolutely would have.
Just an FYI I've dreamt of scar free healing for the last 10 years. My body is approximately 50% scar tissue and has in many ways ruined my life. I don't want to give people false hope. There's no reason for anyone to say that scar free healing exists when there isn't even a clinical trial to prove it.
Just an FYI I've dreamt of scar free healing for the last 10 years. My body is approximately 50% scar tissue and has in many ways ruined my life. I don't want to give people false hope. There's no reason for anyone to say that scar free healing exists when there isn't even a clinical trial to prove it.
I'm scarred too. I'm not going to argue with you, I'm only using cites (I want to keep a premise short, backed up by a cite that matched the premise).
BTW I still cannot see any scar whatso ever in that picture.
mike manning emailed me saying they dont plan on doing any trails with acell for atrophic scaring .... my aunt who is a dermatologist did agree to do test it out on my scars but i think ill wait a few years for this acell stuff to actually work properly .. seabs you mentioned in a pm that i could still scar even when acell has been applied ? why is this ?
v_singh,
As I understand it, the reason acell may not 100% regenerate skin tissue is if a) the powder was denatured in some way and / or b) the wound was not properly cared for during treatment. If either scenario happens to prove true, the opportunity to regenerate tissue where scarring exists is not lost. Acell can be tried numerous times should the tissue not regenerate properly.
Why donat you test Acell on one relatively small scar on an inconspicuous part of your body, if it would give you more confidence to try the product? This way, should the product not regenerate perfectly normal skin where scarring had existed during your first trial of Acell, you have minimized your losses. Once you have determined that the Acell obtained by your aunt is not denatured and the treatment protocol is done correctly, you can proceed to treat the rest of your scars.
Hi FT, is there any info you good link me to, which gives the best procedure/protocol to work with Acell so that scar free healing can occur. as in how to check if it is non -denatured and treatment protocol. if i get all the information needed to make this procedure worthwhile then i will deff do it. i was thinking about testing it out on a small mole on my back but does the skin on the body respond to differnelty then the face. ive had quite alot of acne on my chest and back but no scars at all. only have scars on face
thanks
mike manning emailed me saying they dont plan on doing any trails with acell for atrophic scaring .... my aunt who is a dermatologist did agree to do test it out on my scars but i think ill wait a few years for this acell stuff to actually work properly .. seabs you mentioned in a pm that i could still scar even when acell has been applied ? why is this ?
v_singh,
As I understand it, the reason acell may not 100% regenerate skin tissue is if a) the powder was denatured in some way and / or b) the wound was not properly cared for during treatment. If either scenario happens to prove true, the opportunity to regenerate tissue where scarring exists is not lost. Acell can be tried numerous times should the tissue not regenerate properly.
Why donat you test Acell on one relatively small scar on an inconspicuous part of your body, if it would give you more confidence to try the product? This way, should the product not regenerate perfectly normal skin where scarring had existed during your first trial of Acell, you have minimized your losses. Once you have determined that the Acell obtained by your aunt is not denatured and the treatment protocol is done correctly, you can proceed to treat the rest of your scars.
Hi FT, is there any info you good link me to, which gives the best procedure/protocol to work with Acell so that scar free healing can occur. as in how to check if it is non -denatured and treatment protocol. if i get all the information needed to make this procedure worthwhile then i will deff do it. i was thinking about testing it out on a small mole on my back but does the skin on the body respond to differnelty then the face. ive had quite alot of acne on my chest and back but no scars at all. only have scars on face
thanks
If your aunt calls Mike Manning at Acell, he will provide all the info needed.
Fetal repair is fundamentally different from adult repair. Adult skin wounds heal by scar formation, whereas fetal skin wounds heal by regeneration with restoration of normal skin architecture. This transition from scarless fetal repair to adult-type healing with scar occurs at specific times during gestation. The mechanism for scarless fetal repair is unknown, but it does not require systemic factors such as the fetal immune system, fetal serum, or amniotic fluid. Isolated human fetal skin transplanted into adult athymic mice can heal without scar. Thus the capability for scarless repair is inherent to fetal skin itself.
Isn't that fascinating?! So, since the fetus is able to regenerate and would regenerate its graft, what harm would it do to harvest the tissue and then propogate the cells in a lab for transplantation onto scarred skin? I would guess the fetus would need to be a tissue match or the risk for rejection would be raised, but I still think this this is very interesting.
I'm probably wrong, but I'm not sure if many researchers have ever thoroughly studied human fetal tissue specifically for skin regenerative purposes. I doubt you could transplant anything onto scarred skin - but you could definitely extract the fetal fibroblasts, multiply them, and inject them into a wound - at the very least, there's probably more you could do with it. I don't think rejection would be a problem.
http://www.physorg.com/news158478984.html
Interesting article about stem cells completely restoring scarred corneas in eyes back to normal. The scientists indicated that there was no difference between non treated healthy corneas vs. the fixed corneas through stem cells. No signs of damage. They also said that generally, cornea scarring was considered permanent. Now that's no longer the case.
I really hope this is the same for skin. We all have been waiting for too long!