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3 hours ago, Scarsmakemewanttodie said:I was wondering if anyone has any information on the mouse, pig or human verteporfin trials. As was wondering what kinda dosages are expected and how if they say to inject into wound edges is that still applicable to large scale burns.
For verteporfin, we only have the mouse study. I dont think the dosage from the mouse study would be a goodreference. I wish the pig study would have been published by now so we would have a clear picture.
I dont know if the wound edges would be applicable to large scale burns but Longaker said he hopes to use this treatment for burns also.
I found this inside of the April paper by Dr Longaker, and if I'm not mistaken it works out to 0.03mg per wound which to me seems massively insignificant. Let me know if anyone else gets anything else from this.
I've sat and done some maths for approximate pricing for verteporfin injection in order to see its financial viability for myself and you guys.
So to start the ratio of drug to solvent is 1:1000, therefore for every 1mg of verteporfin you will need 0.999ml of solvent (phosphate buffer saline) and that will provide you 0.001ml of verteporfin.
As stated above they injected 30uL of verteporfin in to each scar of 20mm diameter and that works out to be 30ml of solution injected and 30mg of verteporfin. So the first expense would be the price of injection and due to such a large quantity this would have to be a staggered process with multiple days of injection within the 30 days of healing. And not to frighten you but the cost of a professional injector or a dermatologist is in the region of a 100 dollars a trip and your looking at roughly 15 trips! Totalling 1500 dollars as the fixed costs.
The variable cost of the drug is 20 dollars per mg and you need 30mg for 2cm. So the price of a 2cm scar for just the drug is $600 dollars. Which works out at $30 per mm of scaring and I don't even want to work out the price for a potential full face application for deep full ablation laser.
So in the case of myself who was 5cm worth of excisable scars, I am looking at roughly $3000 dollars and in the grand scheme of things that doesn't sound to bad. But I can see the price of the drug rising once approval happens.
Also this has been 20mins work so please correct me if you notice any errors or glaring oversights!
A thought on the verteporfin and FAK inhibitors. These drugs are said to work by reducing mechanical tension, or chemically modifying the skin so itacts likemechanical tension isn't being exerted onto it. If that is the key, then shouldn't scarless healing be attainable without any drugs? A person can create a small area on their skin without tension by pulling the surrounding skin toward the center of that area. The surrounding skin will have significant tension, but the place of wound healing will not.
skin pulled to the right (tension)--> wound area (tensionless)<-- skin pulled to the left (tension)
Am I missing something about this?
1 hour ago, ScarfromtheLionKing said:A thought on the verteporfin and FAK inhibitors. These drugs are said to work by reducing mechanical tension, or chemically modifying the skin so itacts likemechanical tension isn't being exerted onto it. If that is the key, then shouldn't scarless healing be attainable without any drugs? A person can create a small area on their skin without tension by pulling the surrounding skin toward the center of that area. The surrounding skin will have significant tension, but the place of wound healing will not.
skin pulled to the right (tension)--> wound area (tensionless)<-- skin pulled to the left (tension)
Am I missing something about this?
Yes but no, as although you can reduce tension you cant make it absolute zero and through the use of the drugs you can deactivate the mechanical stress sensor
I wonder if anyone here has done microcoring already? It was available in a few places in 2021. I would love to hear about the results it's given people.
8 hours ago, NagarNikku_ said:
Does anybody have full access to the pdf?
11 minutes ago, Scarsmakemewanttodie said:Does anybody have full access to the pdf?
I do, but it doesnt let me send the pdf through my phone.
Join the telegram about verteporfin:
On 1/21/2022 at 6:14 PM, Scarsmakemewanttodie said:I've sat and done some maths for approximate pricing for verteporfin injection in order to see its financial viability for myself and you guys.
So to start the ratio of drug to solvent is 1:1000, therefore for every 1mg of verteporfin you will need 0.999ml of solvent (phosphate buffer saline) and that will provide you 0.001ml of verteporfin.
As stated above they injected 30uL of verteporfin in to each scar of 20mm diameter and that works out to be 30ml of solution injected and 30mg of verteporfin. So the first expense would be the price of injection and due to such a large quantity this would have to be a staggered process with multiple days of injection within the 30 days of healing. And not to frighten you but the cost of a professional injector or a dermatologist is in the region of a 100 dollars a trip and your looking at roughly 15 trips! Totalling 1500 dollars as the fixed costs.
The variable cost of the drug is 20 dollars per mg and you need 30mg for 2cm. So the price of a 2cm scar for just the drug is $600 dollars. Which works out at $30 per mm of scaring and I don't even want to work out the price for a potential full face application for deep full ablation laser.
So in the case of myself who was 5cm worth of excisable scars, I am looking at roughly $3000 dollars and in the grand scheme of things that doesn't sound to bad. But I can see the price of the drug rising once approval happens.
Also this has been 20mins work so please correct me if you notice any errors or glaring oversights!
They have used 30 L of a solution of 1 mg/mL of Verteporfin for a wound of 20 mm.
This means that they have used 0.030 mg of Verteporfin for 20 mm of wound.
One vial of Visudyne has 15 mg of Verteporfin and it costs ~$2,000 (in Europe 1,000-1,500).
We can divide 15 mg by 0.030 mg to see how many 20 mm wounds we can treat with a dosage of 0.030 mg per 20 mm per Visudyne vial and we have 500 as a result. This translates in 10,000 mm of wounds per vial of Visudyne, 10,000 mm = 1,000 cm = 100 dm = 10 m.
The study does not specify wether they have used PBS as a solvent, they say they have used PBS for the control group.
In the telegram group I have uploaded the full text of the last Verteporfin mouse study.
23 hours ago, anon001 said:They have used 30 L of a solution of 1 mg/mL of Verteporfin for a wound of 20 mm.
This means that they have used 0.030 mg of Verteporfin for 20 mm of wound.
One vial of Visudyne has 15 mg of Verteporfin and it costs ~$2,000 (in Europe 1,000-1,500).
We can divide 15 mg by 0.030 mg to see how many 20 mm wounds we can treat with a dosage of 0.030 mg per 20 mm per Visudyne vial and we have 500 as a result. This translates in 10,000 mm of wounds per vial of Visudyne, 10,000 mm = 1,000 cm = 100 dm = 10 m.
The study does not specify wether they have used PBS as a solvent, they say they have used PBS for the control group.
In the telegram group I have uploaded the full text of the last Verteporfin mouse study.
Isnt 1mg = 0.001 ml
and you have 30ul of vert which is 0.03ml, therefore you need 30mg to get 30ul of vert for a single dosage at 20mm and after reading the study they also got best results per unit of vert at 2 dosages therefore 60mg of vert per 20mm wound.
1 hour ago, Scarsmakemewanttodie said:Isnt 1mg = 0.001 ml
and you have 30ul of vert which is 0.03ml, therefore you need 30mg to get 30ul of vert for a single dosage at 20mm and after reading the study they also got best results per unit of vert at 2 dosages therefore 60mg of vert per 20mm wound.
That's not true, if a solution has a concentration of 1 mg/mL it means that in 1 mL of solution there is 1 mg of solute.
Frogs regrow lost legs in new scientific breakthrough. If a frog can regrow a limb, I sure scars can be removed.
10 hours ago, AI3forever said:Frogs regrow lost legs in new scientific breakthrough. If a frog can regrow a limb, I sure scars can be removed.
Yes it will all come in future , in 70-80 years scars can be improved 90 % , Why not
Been a long time since I came here fellas:
About Elastagen: the reason you're not hearing about anything is because of a NDA. Elastagen was first acquired by Allergan (a big pharmaceutical company) which was afterwards acquired by Abbvie (one of the biggest pharmaceutical companies in the world)...sooooo basically yes, it is in the pipeline obviously, they're working on it in their labs, but you're not going to hear about anything regarding it until Abbvie chooses to do so.
It's good news...but it's frustrating: it's good in the sense that it's really going to happen, but it's frustrating in the sense that we have very little ways to find out anything else about it.