Acne.org Products
Dr. Umar is out of the office until Monday.
I am still quite skeptical. A hairline blemish is still troubling, I would guess most people would prefer more natural acne scarring to multiple hairline blemishes. However, a single hairline blemish may be great for some people or if it truly is small enough may be interesting in my case of body scarring.
Were there marks from the sutures?
5-10 mm is actually pretty good sized, although I'd like to see it performed on a small mark, perhaps without sutures?
He mentioned no marks from the sutures. And in all honesty, a pigmented hairline can be faded, but a hypertrophic scar can't. Good news for us if it can remove em 
And he mentioned that areas in a more static region probably wouldn't need sutures.
But I think small excisions on tiny hypertrophic scars are very viable. Especially if the scar isn't that deep.
Thanks for the update, Zhou! I'll try not to get my hopes up and remain guardedly optimistic, but so far this is good news. By the way, did he happen to mention how far out the results are from treatment?
He said they were pretty along in it. He didn't mention an exact time frame (I should have asked -_-), but I guess not far enough that they think it is done healing if they think the pigment still needs to regenerate.
Well, I just had my appointment with my plastic surgeon that aoespecializesa in scar revision. I had high hopes for him, but turned out to be a large disappointment. From the start he started pushing lasers, not even new ones either, and tried to make me feel stupid by asking him about procedures like dermal grafts, excision, and subcision. After talking to him for 10 mins about excision he said he was will to do just one on me. Then I brought up Acell, and he said he didnat believe in the effects and walked out the door. Not only did this consultation waste my time but my money also. Why canat their be more open-minded plastic surgeons. I have one more consultation scheduled up, and hoping the same doesnat happen.
Let me know if anyone found a plastic surgeon that is willing to try Acell on scars, at this point I might as well just save up to travel as oppose to just wasting my money on consultations. Geez itas frustrating!
No doubt that this thing is really promising. But if the sutures were needed, then will it be alot different from punch excision? Hence they will both leave a fair line. And in both cases, it won't be practical to perform it on many places, coz u will end up with many lines.
My question is, can it b used without suturing?
Zhou you mentined that that is possible on static places, so will we be able to excise the scar and use it with out suturing it?
Yeah, that's a worry of mine as well. It's completely impractical for people with extensive scarring. Excisions are great for people with like surgical, injuries, or isolated acne scars. This would be too expensive or impossible for people with very extensive scarring (like me!). That's why I've been wanting to see how this would work with a deep dermabrasion.
To "unknown:" Mike Manning has mentioned using an ACell bandage instead of sutures for smaller wounds if I remember our conversations correctly.
Yeah, that's a worry of mine as well. It's completely impractical for people with extensive scarring. Excisions are great for people with like surgical, injuries, or isolated acne scars. This would be too expensive or impossible for people with very extensive scarring (like me!). That's why I've been wanting to see how this would work with a deep dermabrasion.
To "unknown:" Mike Manning has mentioned using an ACell bandage instead of sutures for smaller wounds if I remember our conversations correctly.
About excisions - The ps who did my scalpel excision said that he can do 50 punch excisions (using a punch tool) in an hour. Each one usually requires 1 or 2 stitches to close it up while it heals.
As far as having a fine linear scar, I think that ACell would help to heal it so that it blends in with the surrounding skin. If a laser can blend very fine scars in, just think what something like ACell or something similar could do!
I wonder if we could get Mike Manning to come onto the board to answer some of our questions...
Zhou, is it possible that Mike Manning uses me on his next clinical scar trial? Im really really very very fu*king sick of living like this.
A problem I have to address though, like what others had said above. My scarring is not isolated, it is is extensive. Theres now way to get rid of them by cutting bits and pieces out. To get rid, best possible way is to just remove the whole layer of skin on the cheek( and I mean like the whole face ). Will that be a concern? I mean this thing really has to prove it can regenerate like 99.99% for it to be effective.
Cant take any more delays, I dont want to live under a shell, I cant wait before finally I can act and be myself not someother else.
If acell could work that well, I really don't think the whole idea of doing excisions is that big a deal. Surgeons do complicated and time consuming procedures all the time. If they are patient and dedicated to working with the patient, I think doing single excisions and applying acell to the wound is not as difficult as people make it out to be. Yes, it's tedious, but it's not unheard of. Plus, the idea of a very deep dermabrasion followed by this treatment scares the hell out of me.
For all of you who think skin will be the first organ that scientists will be able to regenerate:
http://www.news-medical.net/?id=42124
hmmm....
question for zhou: was the test you mentioned on a facial acne scar or another part of the body? don't want to be a party pooper, but the facial skin is far more complex, delicate, and elastic than other parts of the body.
nevertheless, thanks for sharing this great news
Elevate, this too is my concern about newly-regenerated skin. Facial skin is literally a dense forest of follicles that give it a unique texture and suppleness. I definitely do not want to be a party pooper either. I wonder if Acell can regenerate skin with follicles, and if not, I wonder what that newly regenerated skin looks like. My guess would be no, it does not regenerate follicles, as they are deeply complex little structures, but, again, we don't know. - I just want to see exactly what the regenerated facial skin looks like. What would be amazing is if they would start using it on open wounds of accident or burn victims - and if they've already done this, I'd like to know where we can find the results. I wonder if there are photos of the healed skin of the burned soldiers that Acell was used on...
Zhou, is it possible that Mike Manning uses me on his next clinical scar trial? Im really really very very fu*king sick of living like this.
A problem I have to address though, like what others had said above. My scarring is not isolated, it is is extensive. Theres now way to get rid of them by cutting bits and pieces out. To get rid, best possible way is to just remove the whole layer of skin on the cheek( and I mean like the whole face ). Will that be a concern? I mean this thing really has to prove it can regenerate like 99.99% for it to be effective.
Cant take any more delays, I dont want to live under a shell, I cant wait before finally I can act and be myself not someother else.
1.) Tgan, as Bulgarian Derm mentioned a few months ago, removing a large piece of skin would be very, very risky and could result in more severe disfiguring scarring. Now, there may be some tests out there that have already used Acell on open wounds, that I just don't know of, and I welcome being shown those. But at this time, with a large open wound on the face, we simply do not know what the outcome would be. It could be horrific. Indeed it would be a dream if Acell could regenerate a large portion of excised facial skin, say 10 cm x 10 cm with near-perfect fidelity, but we just don't know.
2.) One more important thing to consider is this question: CAN ACELL REGENERATE SUBCUTANEOUS TISSUE? The reason I ask this is because oftentimes acne scarring reaches into the subcuti, as that is how deeply sebaceous follicles reach in the face. Many depressed scars are due to not only missing skin, but missing areas of subcutaneous tissue.
3.) Also, I think Acell is one piece of the regeneration puzzle and it'd be helpful to use it in combination with a few other things to ensure the least amount of scarring possible: gene therapy (there is currently none available for the public, but there are studies being conducted - I don't know?) to turn off scarring genes and turn on regeneration response, as well as perhaps an artificial blastema to further encourage regeneration and create a moist wound environment, as suggested by Bulgarian Derm, and also application of Low Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) throughout the healing process to accelerate healing and discourage scar tissue formation. There is even an example on the Acell website of healing a dolphin's badly torn dorsal fin using Acell in combination with LLLT. The wound, which was 8 cm x 2 cm, healed with only a tiny scar at the base.
4.) Tgan, I guarantee you there is not one surgeon out there who would be willing to excise large portions of skin from your face and then leave them as an open wound with only Acell to cover it. No doctor is willing to hang his reputation on trying something so extreme that has not been tested on humans with large open wounds. This is one of the more important aspects of our cause - we have to find a way to test the effectiveness of these regenerative materials like Acell on a variety of wounds and scar excisions, but who is willing to go first? Who is willing to take the risk? We need a focused effort dedicated to implementing the very new regenerative materials (like Acell) and combining them with the surgical artistry of a skilled plastic surgeon who gives a damn.
question for zhou: was the test you mentioned on a facial acne scar or another part of the body? don't want to be a party pooper, but the facial skin is far more complex, delicate, and elastic than other parts of the body.
nevertheless, thanks for sharing this great news
Elevate, this too is my concern about newly-regenerated skin. Facial skin is literally a dense forest of follicles that give it a unique texture and suppleness. I definitely do not want to be a party pooper either. I wonder if Acell can regenerate skin with follicles, and if not, I wonder what that newly regenerated skin looks like. My guess would be no, it does not regenerate follicles, as they are deeply complex little structures, but, again, we don't know. - I just want to see exactly what the regenerated facial skin looks like. What would be amazing is if they would start using it on open wounds of accident or burn victims - and if they've already done this, I'd like to know where we can find the results. I wonder if there are photos of the healed skin of the burned soldiers that Acell was used on...
Zhou, is it possible that Mike Manning uses me on his next clinical scar trial? Im really really very very fu*king sick of living like this.
A problem I have to address though, like what others had said above. My scarring is not isolated, it is is extensive. Theres now way to get rid of them by cutting bits and pieces out. To get rid, best possible way is to just remove the whole layer of skin on the cheek( and I mean like the whole face ). Will that be a concern? I mean this thing really has to prove it can regenerate like 99.99% for it to be effective.
Cant take any more delays, I dont want to live under a shell, I cant wait before finally I can act and be myself not someother else.
1.) Tgan, as Bulgarian Derm mentioned a few months ago, removing a large piece of skin would be very, very risky and could result in more severe disfiguring scarring. Now, there may be some tests out there that have already used Acell on open wounds, that I just don't know of, and I welcome being shown those. But at this time, with a large open wound on the face, we simply do not know what the outcome would be. It could be horrific. Indeed it would be a dream if Acell could regenerate a large portion of excised facial skin, say 10 cm x 10 cm with near-perfect fidelity, but we just don't know.
2.) One more important thing to consider is this question: CAN ACELL REGENERATE SUBCUTANEOUS TISSUE? The reason I ask this is because oftentimes acne scarring reaches into the subcuti, as that is how deeply sebaceous follicles reach in the face. Many depressed scars are due to not only missing skin, but missing areas of subcutaneous tissue.
3.) Also, I think Acell is one piece of the regeneration puzzle and it'd be helpful to use it in combination with a few other things to ensure the least amount of scarring possible: gene therapy (there is currently none available for the public, but there are studies being conducted - I don't know?) to turn off scarring genes and turn on regeneration response, as well as perhaps an artificial blastema to further encourage regeneration and create a moist wound environment, as suggested by Bulgarian Derm, and also application of Low Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) throughout the healing process to accelerate healing and discourage scar tissue formation. There is even an example on the Acell website of healing a dolphin's badly torn dorsal fin using Acell in combination with LLLT. The wound, which was 8 cm x 2 cm, healed with only a tiny scar at the base.
4.) Tgan, I guarantee you there is not one surgeon out there who would be willing to excise large portions of skin from your face and then leave them as an open wound with only Acell to cover it. No doctor is willing to hang his reputation on trying something so extreme that has not been tested on humans with large open wounds. This is one of the more important aspects of our cause - we have to find a way to test the effectiveness of these regenerative materials like Acell on a variety of wounds and scar excisions, but who is willing to go first? Who is willing to take the risk? We need a focused effort dedicated to implementing the very new regenerative materials (like Acell) and combining them with the surgical artistry of a skilled plastic surgeon who gives a damn.
It seems to me that acell would not work on acne scars if that is true. I mean, how many people have acne scars that are isolated? Most are bad enough to overlapped each other over an area, OR cause the skin surrounding it to also be damaged.
If it only works for isolated scars it would really be dissapointing.
it's been a common theme on this thread to speculate on whether acell would work for this or that, but the fact of the matter is, it's only speculation without an expert source or citation. saying that acell would only work on isolated scars is a case in point. i think zhou has been the only person in a while to give factual evidence of its efficacy of acell, which is why i asked for further specifics.
please don't take this as a personal attack on anyone, everyone has a lot of hope for this product and is full of questions, i can understand that, but let's not turn gossip into fact again. too often the speculation has spun out of control, making it hard to sift through gossip in order to find the facts.
everyone is entitled to their opinions of course, and i am not in the position to moderate this thread, but i request as a matter of courtesy, to make clear opinions as opinions and facts as facts. thanks 
I think some of you are getting way too hung up on the technicalities of how acell will be applied. If this stuff does turn out to be able to repair scars and regenerate facial skin seamlessly, surgeons will find a way to make it work, whether that be excisions, multiple light dermabrasions, whatever.... I think the much bigger issue is whether it will it work, not how.
Datura, it is absolutely our business to discuss the details of how Acell will be applied. I mean this as no offense to legitimate doctors out there who take pride in their work, but there are a multitude of ignorant, pig-headed, stubborn doctors and surgeons who could be rightfully schooled by some of us on the board. We continually are reading posts by individuals who spend a good amount of money on a consultation with a PS, only to find that they don't even know about the latest trends in tissue regeneration and are toting all the old, ineffective, but highly profitable procedures like CO2 and fraxel. Many board members have trusted enough derms & surgeons only to be royally **cked over by them - some have actually *ruined * peoples' lives with their shoddy workmanship. There is a grotesque shortage of doctors who are truly dedicated to their craft - who treat it as a merging of art and science - who are dedicated to ending suffering and facilitating innovation in their field rather than making a quick buck.
It is absolutely our business on this board to discuss things down to the last detail. We are an important part of the puzzle in getting the word out there - we ask doctors and surgeons, or rather, educate them, about these products, and eventually, they get around to using them. Jesus, I'm getting pissed off just by writing this, thinking about all the nincompoop "medical" professionals out there.
2.) One more important thing to consider is this question: CAN ACELL REGENERATE SUBCUTANEOUS TISSUE? The reason I ask this is because oftentimes acne scarring reaches into the subcuti, as that is how deeply sebaceous follicles reach in the face. Many depressed scars are due to not only missing skin, but missing areas of subcutaneous tissue.
ECM is the central player in regenerating every tissue (no tissue, or animal, is a special discriminated case). I've also been in contact with someone whop has recently been in contact with acell, who told me that wghen the ecm application is applied on deep trauma, it attempts regenerate the bone perfectly (though bone is harder to regenerate than soft tissues) and then regenerates all the way to the softer tissues like the skin, it follows the genetic instructions, and knits all the layered tissues if you like. If I remember correctly I'm sure this person even mentioned the subcutaneous tissue when discussing the softer tissues.
Sebaceous follicles, if you research laminin, you will see it is a component of ECM, and I've read the latest thinking is some type of Laminin (laminin 511?)is the protein responsible for har growth, my thinking is that sebaceous follicles will be the result...
Hopeseed, I watched a poptech talk by baydlak last friday, in discussing regenerating tissues, if I remember correctly, he called skin and bladder tissue 'easy,' and soon they hope to regeneate a heart etc.
I'm just saying that if acell is as promising for scars as scientists say, then there will be doctors who will utilize it. I am skeptical of doctors sometimes, too, and I've had my share of pointless consults, but I do believe there are some doctors who want to help rather than pushing useless, expensive procedures. Anyway, people can discuss what they'd like, but personally I'd like to see whether this regenerates facial skin properly, before getting concerned with application and whether doctors will use it and things like that.
ECM is the central player in regenerating every tissue (no tissue, or animal, is a special discriminated case). I've also been in contact with someone whop has recently been in contact with acell, who told me that wghen the ecm application is applied on deep trauma, it attempts regenerate the bone perfectly (though bone is harder to regenerate than soft tissues) and then regenerates all the way to the softer tissues like the skin, it follows the genetic instructions, and knits all the layered tissues if you like. If I remember correctly I'm sure this person even mentioned the subcutaneous tissue when discussing the softer tissues.
Sebaceous follicles, if you research laminin, you will see it is a component of ECM, and I've read the latest thinking is some type of Laminin (laminin 511?)is the protein responsible for har growth, my thinking is that sebaceous follicles will be the result...
Hopeseed, I watched a poptech talk by baydlak last friday, in discussing regenerating tissues, if I remember correctly, he called skin and bladder tissue 'easy,' and soon they hope to regeneate a heart etc.
Just FYI, bone heals very quickly compared to other body tissue.
^ how come? :Sa wound in the skin will take days to heal.. but a broken bone will take months !
You guys, we're getting off topic. Not to be a nag. Let's just stay focused. Bones can regenerate back to near-perfect function, but healed bone is under the skin and none of us give a damn if there's an imperfection in its healed appearance or not. For us, this is all about aesthetics. Even relatively pitted or scarred skin can heal back enough to function as a protective covering that secretes oil and sweat....but for all of us on this thread, we're concerned more with form. Ya dig?
2.) One more important thing to consider is this question: CAN ACELL REGENERATE SUBCUTANEOUS TISSUE? The reason I ask this is because oftentimes acne scarring reaches into the subcuti, as that is how deeply sebaceous follicles reach in the face. Many depressed scars are due to not only missing skin, but missing areas of subcutaneous tissue.
Honestly ... I don't think it is important IF Acell can not regenerate subcutaneous tissue. Yes it would be extremely helpful if it can ...but if it can not it is no worry as long as it can regenerate the other tissues needed. I say this because since subcutaneous tissue is hidden underneath the top layers of skin and you can't see it with your eye you can essentially transplant it, with other subq tissue, fat, or even artificial fillers. If you can get the top to look normal you can fill in what is missing below. Hopefully this point is moot and Acell works by and regenerating all tissues including subq.
2.) One more important thing to consider is this question: CAN ACELL REGENERATE SUBCUTANEOUS TISSUE? The reason I ask this is because oftentimes acne scarring reaches into the subcuti, as that is how deeply sebaceous follicles reach in the face. Many depressed scars are due to not only missing skin, but missing areas of subcutaneous tissue.
Honestly ... I don't think it is important IF Acell can not regenerate subcutaneous tissue. Yes it would be extremely helpful if it can ...but if it can not it is no worry as long as it can regenerate the other tissues needed. I say this because since subcutaneous tissue is hidden underneath the top layers of skin and you can't see it with your eye you can essentially transplant it, with other subq tissue, fat, or even artificial fillers. If you can get the top to look normal you can fill in what is missing below. Hopefully this point is moot and Acell works by and regenerating all tissues including subq.
From what i've read from various posts and links regarding ecm, it seems odd that Acell would ignore regenerating subcutaneous tissue and just go straight to the top layers of skin.
From the plastic surgeons i've talked to about scarring most people who have depressed scarring have some form of fat or muscle tissue that has been lost so it is very important that it can be regenerated as fillers do not work perfectly. However as I said before I don't see why Acell would for some reason ignore regenerating subcutaneous tissue in the first place.