by the way...what isn't political.laws are a part of everything.the FDA is part of the govt.we elect the people to make our laws and form agencys like fema,homeland security.dept of transportation,health care,nasa.most private companys lobby washington to get things they want.most social spending are earmarks.web sites are controlled by laws made by our politicians.might be at the city,state or federal level...we can't get by a day without something that has a political implamation to it.if you want to be a dermatologist..you have to get a degree and be certified by the govt. or they will revolk your licence to practice medicine.if someone want to name something that doesnt pretain to politics...good luck....i am just telling facts....about the shape of todays economy...which blame should lie on almost all of us by spending money we dont have.unless acell comes up with a cheep product..like in the hundreds of dollars....i wont be able to afford it even if it were to work.and with the govt being 10 trillion in debt..i doubt if there will be much spending for anything....like stem cell research.

if i were to go about regeneration medicine..it would be a multi-national project.say......all the nations of the world could contribute money and scientist and meet at a location that the majority of nations agree on.it would be on the scale of the ....manhatten project...but then again the world has so many other problems like energy,food and the like..i doubt that regeneration medicine would be at our top of the list on problems to solve.maybe a private firm might come through with a major scientific breakthrough and it might come from a person that is extremely smart on a shoestring budget.did you ever see big blockbuster movies that over 100 million were spent only to be horrible but a movie like ''blairwitch'' which cost almost nothing be far superior to the blockbuster bomb.same goes for cds like i can remember a album by heart in the 70s called ''dreamboat annie'' and some ''ramones'' lps that were done on almost no budgets then some crap albums by micheal jackson and other big name artists tanked and were horrible with huge mega-budgets.just throwing money at a problem or project doesnt always mean better results.

After this I focus in on the individual scars in the area with autologous collagen and/or blood.

I was wondering if you could explain what you meant by

"I focus in on the individual scars in the area with autologous collagen"

thanks

I'm done with this thread. Sorry, but I'm taking my findings including my contacts somewhere else where there are less little shits to screw around with. Some people are just so unforgivably stubborn. Get over this FDA conspiracy theory already and realize that we have treatments out there at this moment that are FDA approved but not applied. Start promoting application of what's available or get a degree in medicine. I choose to do both. I'll check back once in a while but I already know I'll be skipping half of the posts from here on out. This means I won't be posting here. Good luck to all of you.

won won I hope to see you back.

Holdontohope, you are looking at everything microscopically, and if you look at everything that microscopic to make a judgement it all looks complex.

Think about this:

 

It will soon be cold, you have the materials to build a house. You have a builder and a geologist. You have two choices, 1. build that house now with the materials and examine what holds the brick together later with the geologist, or let the geologist micro analyise the brick before you can build the house, and you go many winters before he understands it?

And yet to date, not one cure for any physical problem has been found looking at a 3d detail like you do. However many physical problems in the human condition have been found, without the microscopic analyis. Though I'm sure in many years from now with CAD technology this will change.

Anyway scar free healing is here. And scar free healing that has already been achieved is with the application of factors that have not been micro anlyized. Factors that go the route of the regeneration pathway, that regenerate the local tissue, inhibit fibrosis and inflammation...

I also don't get why ECM would discriminate against a face wound over a body wound or an internal body wound. Saying it is a material our bodies is constantly using, and it is a material that regenerates tissues to the local host.

Wow, I disappear from this board from a few days and I come back to read this cluster fuck of messages. Haha.

Holdontohope and Kirk-

Hope, Kirk was mainly just trying to say you had a good idea, but he's convinced it's unnecessary, I didn't interpret anything to be meant with ill intent. Hope- Your idea is ambitious, but it should be in a new thread. I suppose Kirk is right in that we need to break this thing down a bit, since it gets all distracted. We need like three separate threads: Scarless Healing Research, Regenerative Medicine Funding Organization, and Politics/Economics of Medical Funding.

Won Won-

Do not leave, Nikkigirl is just insane. I loved the phrase FDA Conspiracy Theory, haha.

Nikkigirl-

Shut up. I'm so sick of hearing about the damn politics, it gets this thread no where to discuss why money isn't there and who's to blame. Your posts are just the most idiotic, inane things I've ever read. Head over to the Daily Show forums if you want some sympathy for Bush's folleys, I don't give a shit, it is what it is (I'm an Obama supporter, so this isn't a party thing for me). Quite frankly nikki, your distracting conversation is damaging to our cause of researching scarless healing issues and getting useful information.

Kirk-

I always look forward to reading your posts, because you are the most optimistic in here and among the brightest. However, you have provided a lot of evidence, but nothing has shown us real results yet. Are you saying ACell is the answer and it's just not being used properly yet? Where have you seen 95% regeneration of a scar or wound? I want to see it and I want to see it look right. Point me in the right direction and I'll start digging for information.

BY THE WAY:

Not everyone has scars on their face

Hoursafter - I appreciate your diplomacy and level-headedness. Please keep it up. Also, if you are interested in devoting any time or talents to setting up this foundation I've mentioned, PM me.

Won-won - I understand your frustration with the scattered, disorganized nature of this thread, and some of the wacky, non-sensical posts we see. This thread is a good start. But I think you are right in wanting to take personal action. I think I can be a mover and a shaker in the regard of setting up a foundation. If you don't want to donate some of your talents, then let us all at least keep in touch so our efforts don't get scattered to the wind. We can make more difference giving a collective effort than trying to change something ourselves.

Nikkigirl - I've had to wade through one too many of your bizarrely incoherent, badly written posts that boil down to nothing more than just a bunch of whining and complaining. You have proven time and time again that you have nothing to offer when it comes to helping our cause, and are now just polluting the board. Your posts are an inconvenience and a distraction. I second hoursafter. Please do us all a favor and refrain from posting in this thread.

Kirk - I think your suggestion on streamlining this thread is excellent. I too nominate you to be the one for the task. I'm going to devote my energies to setting up a foundation to raise funding that will go specifically towards fine-tuning existing and developing new skin regeneration technologies and therapies.

It makes sense to create another thread for funding, etc. I will not mention the foundation again on this thread. I'll start another thread when I get a little more momentum behind it.

did i mention either candidate that is running for president?huh?but everything has a political implacation.i live in a rural very conservative central pennsylvania area.guess what?people think you are screwed in the head if you mention anything that has to do with acne or acne scars.won won and the other guys here would definitely be deemed a homosexual or a cry-baby sissy boy.so before you start trashing me..you better check out your base.i am just telling you facts.either the private sector with the republican party favors or the government sector which the democrats favor everything has something to do with politics.this has to do with who we elect as our lawmakers.but....again this thead is all talk and no action....no clinical trials...and no one person here has gotten ahold of acell and tried it out.in the end you are just desparate acne scarred people like me that are hoping til the day you die on something that works.won won,kirk and other cry babys here that whine about acne scars..in the words of hulk hogan...MAN UP!

AND THATS A PRETTY REPUBLICAN HARD RIGHT ON YOU WIMPS CRYIN' ABOUT YOUR ACNE SCARS!

you are a bunch of dipshits!i didn't say anything about a FDA conspiracy!before a drug or treatment is used on the general public it has to be approved by the FDA.THE FEDERAL DRUG ADMINISTRATION.HOURSAFTER....go back in under your hole you...rock face...im sure no woman would like u..with or without scars...you disfigured ass-wipe!

And all that lashing out did what?... Better the thread...no...Make you feel superior...probably...Prove everyone's point that you are detracting from the goal of the thread...definitely.

Anyways, has anyone gotten any info or feedback from the "test" doctors who were running Acell on strip scars? I was gonna try to find stuff out on my own, but life has been really busy with my 3 jobs ... i know, i know hahaha. I figured it has been a few weeks, so someone must be seeing SOME sort of results by now?

The last thing we need to do is all turn on each other. Acne scaring is evil for everyone, we all know that. And no matter where your politics lies the point is that we are all in this together. Yes, one might be more pro science than the other, but we should leave it at that.

I've posted a few negative things about Acell (and other stuff) on this thread, and I've come to realize that it achieves nothing, not to me or others, and it just gets everybody else down.

From now on you'll see me commenting on the positive side of things, without me been over the top unrealistic.

Zhou-

I tried calling Dr. Umar two weeks ago and his receptionist pointed me to his website to setup an online information session to ask the questions. Obviously, this wasn't going to work. So I'm going to call back at a different time and see if I can't get a hold of a receptionist that knows a little bit more and maybe can put me in contact directly with Dr. Umar. You are correct that information should be out there by now.

As for the Toronto doctor, I forget his name, I'm on his mailing list though. He was always a little bit less accessible. It may be worth putting some pressure on him for information. I think it was Dr. Robert Johnson. Don't hold me to that though.

Probably the best bet is to call Mike Manning and see where ACell is leaning in the process of scar research. They have obviously taken notice of our onslaught of calls.

I remember someone posted a link to human ECM and someone got that but was afraid to try it? That was in a liquid form correct? Maybe you should try scraping somewhere you don't care about and seeing how it works if you apply and seal it in. Or is it meant as an injectable?

Finger-pointing is useless. The people whom you criticize have the same problems with you. We scar sufferers already have so many stresses and cannot live with more of them.

Some people think that scarless healing has already been possible, while some think it is not. We should let both sides to express their opinions and findings.

Personally, I think that partial scar prevention is possible, while completely scarless healing, or prevent scars for up to 90% is still under research. As for research, politics has a role because it influences the funding.

To Nikkigirl

The government will have an extra $10 billion a month for domestic purposes if it pulls out the troops in Iraq.

Indeed, Obama has promised to dramatically funding for the National Institute of Health. He also supports double the funding for basic scientific research.

Back to acell, if I can obtain it, I will use it with aggressive microdermabrasion to see if it works. If scarless healing is not possible within 3 years, I will go mad.

I'm sure this was discussed somewhere in this thread, but I don't feel like digging it up. But here is a quote from this website http://www.avlar.com/news.134.htm about clinical trials being done on acne scar patients with Vavelta.

 

We are also investigating the use of VAVELTA in acne scarring in a study being conducted by Dr David Eccleston; all 10 subjects have received their first treatment with 5 having received the second of the 2 planned treatments. The remaining 5 will have their second treatment in January. We expect to announce preliminary 12 week data on all subjects and some 24 week data by the end of March 2008.

 

 

Anyway, does anyone happen to have the results on these trials? If they were released. I know some of y'all are more on top of this than I am, so hopefully someone has this info.

A second Phase II trial for the use of VAVELTA‚® in acne (body and facial) scarring was completed by Dr David Eccleston MB ChB at the MediZen clinic, Birmingham. Six months post-treatment, the average satisfaction scores, were 6.8 and 6.3 respectively.

No serious adverse events were observed and VAVELTA‚® was well tolerated in both Phase II trials. Treatment has commenced in a third Phase II trial investigating the use of VAVELTA‚® in burns scars (including contractures).

http://www.medizen.co.uk/News/Display.asp?ID=357

I don't have time to read the article at this moment fox, but is this good or bad news? 6.8 out of 10? It's hard to really understand what that number means and I'm not exactly sure what vavelta is. If it says for body scarring though I would be very interested! I'll read up when I'm done with work.

I urge all people who want to erase their scars to vote for and to convince your family members to vote for Barack Obama.

Here is an extract from http://www.barackobama.com/issues/technology/

Invest in the Sciences:

Barack Obama and Joe Biden support doubling federal funding for basic research over ten years, changing the posture of our federal government from being one of the most anti-science administrations in American history to one that embraces science and technology. This will foster home-grown innovation, help ensure the competitiveness of US technology-based businesses, and ensure that 21st century jobs can and will grow in America.

Advance the Biomedical Research Field:

As a result of biomedical research the prevention, early detection and treatment of diseases such as cancer and heart disease is better today than any other time in history. Obama strongly supports investments in biomedical research, as well as medical education and training in health-related fields. As president, Obama will strengthen funding for biomedical research, and better improve the efficiency of that research by improving coordination both within government and across government/private/non-profit partnerships. An Obama administration will ensure that we translate scientific progress into improved approaches to disease prevention, early detection and therapy that is available for all Americans.

Advance Stem Cell Research:

Despite recent advances pointing to alternatives like adult stem cell and cord blood, embryonic stem cells remain unmatched in their potential for treatment of a wide variety of diseases and health conditions. Barack Obama has been a long-term supporter of increased stem cell research. He introduced legislation while a member of the Illinois Senate that would allow embryonic stem cell research in Illinois. Obama has cosponsored legislation to allow greater federal government funding on a wider array of stem cell lines. Obama believes we need high ethical standards that allow for research on stem cells derived from embryos produced for in vitro fertilization, embryos that would otherwise be needlessly destroyed.

Isoflous, Hey, thanks! I am definitely voting for Obama and praying that he gets in.

Jan31

God dammit. Won won was right, I'm done with this fucking forum. I tried to ignore the problem and lead the conversation on another track, but it went the wrong way. I hope all you are proud of yourselves for disenfranchising so many people with the same cause as you. We all support fighting scars, a large portion of us do not support affiliating politics in this thread. I'm done, anything I find or dig up will be mine and mine alone. Thank iso, january, and nikki for this loss of information (which has proven quite important in the past, in fact, no one would know what doctors are currently using acell if it wasn't for me) congrats to your ignorance as a group!

Won won, please contact me so we can start something else up away from this ship of fools.

God dammit. Won won was right, I'm done with this fucking forum. I tried to ignore the problem and lead the conversation on another track, but it went the wrong way. I hope all you are proud of yourselves for disenfranchising so many people with the same cause as you. We all support fighting scars, a large portion of us do not support affiliating politics in this thread. I'm done, anything I find or dig up will be mine and mine alone. Thank iso, january, and nikki for this loss of information (which has proven quite important in the past, in fact, no one would know what doctors are currently using acell if it wasn't for me) congrats to your ignorance as a group!

 

Won won, please contact me so we can start something else up away from this ship of fools.

No offence hoursafter, but I believe this statement is immature. One doesn't have to agree with what others say or do in order to contribute to a cause in a positive manner. I find threats of leaving and not helping others far more inappropriate than comments about America's political landscape in relation to biomedical research. I think you are a valuable member here and you should reconsider your stance. You should also do your best to disregard the insults thrown your way... Everyone here is emotional and it is pointless being upset or offended with those who are dealing with so much stress on a daily basis.

Hoursafter and won won I always enjoy reading your posts, please reconsider leaving. You guys along with kirk and bulgarian derm are the driving force behind this topic. There is a new thread for people who want to post political discussions about scarless healing so people can choose what they want to view. Hoping you'll return for the benefit of many.

Tom

Sometimes people just start writing about something as part of their post to further a point they are trying to make. No one here should assume that they have the right to monitor postings and to decide what is and is not proper according to their own opinions. That's kind of narcissistic.

No more updates on acell? Like what has happened when it was used on the strip scars?

No more updates on acell? Like what has happened when it was used on the strip scars?

Just got off the phone with Mike Manning from Acell. All the things I hear about him being a great guy are true. I really can't believe he actually picked up haha.

Anyways, I have news...

They HAVE treated a scar. It is currently their only scar revision trial. It was a 5-10 mm scar that went under 2 prior revisions before Acell which failed. The scar was cut out, Acell was put in the wound and sutured up. The patient also applied a bit to the suture as it healed. He [Manning] said he would have preferred the sheets be incorporated into the suture, but the scar is progressing wonderfully and the patient is estatic. He said the most recent picture he received had a good amount of glare (so it was hard to tell), but up until then it seemed the only thing currently remaining is a hairline blemish, which they BELIEVE is just pigmentation not yet regenerated.

This is very good news in my mind.

In the case of doctor Umar, he said that one of his guys was supposed to meet with him last week Friday? I think? But there was a scheduling conflict. He said last he heard Dr. Umar was awaiting the pictures to send to Acell. He also stated that hair regrowth also takes longer than simple skin regrowth as once the skin is in place it takes a few more weeks for follicles and stuff to regenerate.

One thing they are unsure of as of now, though, is what would happen if you only cut out half the scar. He says your body should genetically regenerate what's SUPPOSED to be their, but they don't know if that will pull from the surrounding scar tissue or not. As when they did the scar revision they cut out the whole thing.

He said that as they accumulate more cases and studies, pictures will be posted announcing successes under their Human Medical Solutions page.

Also, I remember someone saying that the Adipose or fatty tissue of deep wounds would be unable to regenerate, but he says he fully believes it will. He said in clinical trials with animals, damage to the bone was fully regenerated all the way through, in some cases with just one application. He then joked that animals heal way better than humans though.

Now, I am skeptical of everything, and probably won't truly believe in it till my own scars are gone haha. BUT... this was a strong push for me to instill a little hope into this thing...

Dr. Umar is out of the office until Monday.

I am still quite skeptical. A hairline blemish is still troubling, I would guess most people would prefer more natural acne scarring to multiple hairline blemishes. However, a single hairline blemish may be great for some people or if it truly is small enough may be interesting in my case of body scarring.

Were there marks from the sutures?

5-10 mm is actually pretty good sized, although I'd like to see it performed on a small mark, perhaps without sutures?

Thanks for the update, Zhou! I'll try not to get my hopes up and remain guardedly optimistic, but so far this is good news. By the way, did he happen to mention how far out the results are from treatment?