Acne.org Products
again....this hasn't been used in acne scars yet.or has it?i just want to see results.i can't believe a private company wouldn't market this with all the burn patients,acne and surgical scar patients.my medical doctor would get me a rx if i told her who to contact.but i bet acell won't give there stuff out to just any md yet.kirk....i know you and others have made calls to mr manning and others,but if they never even try it in clinical trials how are they ever know it will work?i guess they don't wanna risk lawsuits if this stuff has side effects.thats my only reasoning for the hold up.like in the movie....i am legend.....the doctor that programs a virus to be helpful to the human body to cure cancer,runs amuck and destroys the whole human race.i doubt very much if it will ever happen with acell because its not a virus but it could lead to cancer souls like kirk out there who would take the risk....thanks kirk...!
I don't think it would be very hard for any MD to get a hold of ACell. From the impressions I've gathered, in dealing with Mike Manning, researching ACell, and circumstantial evidence, I think ACell really wants to make money and they are by no means a high grossing firm. Mike Manning is constantly the salesman; I think if your doctor asked, he or she would easily get access to it.
I would love to try ACell with an open minded doctor.
again....this hasn't been used in acne scars yet.or has it?i just want to see results.i can't believe a private company wouldn't market this with all the burn patients,acne and surgical scar patients.my medical doctor would get me a rx if i told her who to contact.but i bet acell won't give there stuff out to just any md yet.kirk....i know you and others have made calls to mr manning and others,but if they never even try it in clinical trials how are they ever know it will work?i guess they don't wanna risk lawsuits if this stuff has side effects.thats my only reasoning for the hold up.like in the movie....i am legend.....the doctor that programs a virus to be helpful to the human body to cure cancer,runs amuck and destroys the whole human race.i doubt very much if it will ever happen with acell because its not a virus but it could lead to cancer souls like kirk out there who would take the risk....thanks kirk...!
Nikkigirl, I wouldn't worry about rejection, Acell ECM is an acellular ECM, which means that the markers that cause an adverse inflammation immune response are removed, allowing an adoptive response to the ECM. Which enables the ECM bioscaffold to be degraded, absorbed by the body tissue to be replaced by the host tissue. And it is available.
Kirk, the results of the swiss scientitsts are really astounding. I see that this article is dated 2005. Its 3 years from now and im surprised we havent heard more from them. Do you know of any way to contact them?
Also for that mebo therapy, ive done some research findings and came up something eerily similar to that acell application.
http://www.life300.com/view.asp?newsid=103
Hey does anyone know if BioNuesis by histogen would be safe to apply on human skin. I have some of this stuff just sitting in the fridge but too scared to apply it after nikkigirl's virus example lol. I was just gonna experiment but prolly just toss it if their is even a chance of me catching a virus. Thanks and please respond to this stupid question lol.
Kirk, the results of the swiss scientitsts are really astounding. I see that this article is dated 2005. Its 3 years from now and im surprised we havent heard more from them. Do you know of any way to contact them?
Also for that mebo therapy, ive done some research findings and came up something eerily similar to that acell application.
I have never contacted them Tgan. But I bet his hospital or university has a webite.
Kirk, the results of the swiss scientitsts are really astounding. I see that this article is dated 2005. Its 3 years from now and im surprised we havent heard more from them. Do you know of any way to contact them?
Also for that mebo therapy, ive done some research findings and came up something eerily similar to that acell application.
I have never contacted them Tgan. But I bet his hospital or university has a webite.
I actually purchased the pdf of the clinical study on the children's burns treated with Fetal Stem Cells at the University of Lausanne Switzerland. They show photos of before during and 1 year follow-up after the burns. I also paid the $105 for the Burns Regenerative Medicine Therapy book which presents MEBO therapy. There are close-up photos of the healed skin (including one facial burn). Neither photos are that impressive as far as getting skin to look normal again. If anybody wants me to send them the Swiss study pdf or scans of a couple pages of photos from the Burn book, then PM me with your personal email.
I actually purchased the pdf of the clinical study on the children's burns treated with Fetal Stem Cells at the University of Lausanne Switzerland. They show photos of before during and 1 year follow-up after the burns. I also paid the $105 for the Burns Regenerative Medicine Therapy book which presents MEBO therapy. There are close-up photos of the healed skin (including one facial burn). Neither photos are that impressive as far as getting skin to look normal again. If anybody wants me to send them the Swiss study pdf or scans of a couple pages of photos from the Burn book, then PM me with your personal email.
Really interesting. From the other article about the children treated with fetal skin cells, we would thought that scarless healing is achieved as they state the appearance of the skin after treatment look more or less nornal, with no scarring and contraction. Did they use the same exact method?
Hello all. Raise your hand if you are tired of wondering when scarless healing and tissue regeneration will "happen." Raise your hand if you are tired of wishing and hoping.
I raise my hand to all of the above.
I'll just come right out and say it. I want to start a foundation which garners funding from various sources around the globe (i.e. biotech billionaire investors, wealthy parents of scar sufferers, etc) that is dedicated SOLELY to achieving scarless skin regeneration that is totally and completely aesthetically acceptable. None of this 20% improvement bullshit. And here's the thing - I want all of you to help me. In fact, I'd dare say that many of you are morally obligated to help this effort. But that's an argument for another day. Anyways, before you rattle off a list of the challenges and hurdles we face, please stop right there. I know full well that this is not going to be as easy as sitting around and complaining and holing up in my apartment on a Friday night. I know that.
Even if skin regeneration really is a possibility, the solution/solutions could be several decades away if we simply sit on our asses and wait. But I am telling you now that we can be part of the solution, and we can bring it here faster. We can make a difference in the outcome and how long it takes to get here. It will take focused action combined with strategy, and of course, passion for the cause. Thankfully we're not lacking in that. There are many efforts currently in full swing, but they are scattered and quite honestly, I would be willing to bet that most of those scientists and researchers don't have a personal stake in the outcome. Look, even if it took 15 years, think about it - most of us will be entering middle age by then. I've seen plenty of hot 50 year olds with lovely skin - so what if they have a few wrinkles. I'd rather have this solution when I'm 42 (I'm 27 now) than when I'm 82. And honestly, even if I do not directly benefit from this (although it is my intention to do so) then at least when my life is over, I can say I contributed something of true value to decrease human suffering in this world.
I currently run a boutique marketing company with some family members, and would devote the following skills:
Kick-A$$ graphic design, copywriting, I've got a killer phone voice, negotiation and sales skills... and of course I have charm and my feminine wiles on my side. I may not have perfect skin, but I'm still pretty smokin' and charismatic to boot.
Ylem, tgan, hoursafter.... all of you. Are you going to do what you can to make this happen or are you going to continue spending your life lamenting the bad hand you've been dealt? I don't mean that as an attack. Not in the least. I have the deepest of empathy for our situation. Many of our hearts have been deeply broken over our skin issues, and I will never mock that. But I want to put that pain to good use. I want to make it fuel for a fire. I want to live an extraordinary life, and I urge all of you who read this who believe in the future possibility of true skin regeneration, to contact me and we'll put our heads together. I have some very cool, innovative ideas for attracting funding sources.
If I get some feedback, I might start a separate thread on this...but quite honestly, this is more on-topic than a lot of posts I see in this thread. It's the thing that will bring us closer to the reality of scarless healing and true skin regeneration.
Best,
holdontohope
I'm sure this was discussed somewhere in this thread, but I don't feel like digging it up. But here is a quote from this website http://www.avlar.com/news.134.htm about clinical trials being done on acne scar patients with Vavelta.
We are also investigating the use of VAVELTA in acne scarring in a study being conducted by Dr David Eccleston; all 10 subjects have received their first treatment with 5 having received the second of the 2 planned treatments. The remaining 5 will have their second treatment in January. We expect to announce preliminary 12 week data on all subjects and some 24 week data by the end of March 2008.
Anyway, does anyone happen to have the results on these trials? If they were released. I know some of y'all are more on top of this than I am, so hopefully someone has this info. 
I dont raise my hand to any of it. I lookat the fact that ubm ecm will regenerate my tissues to 95%+...
I expect scar free healing is months not years away.
HAH! You always read my mind.
Get some funding if you want, but only to invest it in ACell. GET THAT SHIT TO THE MAINSTREAM!
It's truly encouraging. 
There have already been 7 years of lost research after Bush rejected federal funding for embryonic research.
Hope the US will elect a president who will heavily invest in these iPS cells. We scars sufferers cannot afford another 4 years of lost research.
When it comes to basic research, government funding is crucial, because it focuses on long-term results, rather than on short-term stock prices of a company.
bulgarin derm...i have a question?why is it when you scrap you knee or something like that it almost all the time doesnt lead to scarring?is it because the would isnt deep enough?when you dermabrate the top layers of skin...the scarred skin just doesnt have the ability to regenerate into healthy skin?what do you think are the odds on ever finding something that will work?
Hi nikkigirl,
The scraped knee you described probably does have scar tissue, although one may not be able to see it on a casual glance. However, under the right light conditions, angle and proximity to the eye, it may become apparent that the knee has after all developed scar tissue which would be deemed unacceptable should it be on the face. Another factor to consider is that sometimes scars are simply not visible to the naked eye per se, but exist on a histological level nonetheless. Finally skin in different areas of the body tends to heal differently. For example, many of my patients have had hypotrophic scarring on their faces, yet hypertrophic scarring on their necks. The cause for both scars was one and the same, acne.
Anyway, facial skin is in my opinion exceptionally delicate and smooth to begin with, so any scarring, no matter how small, can become noticeable to the detail oriented observer. The skin on our faces also overlies important bony contours that in general define our level of attractiveness. These contours are biologically designed to reflect light in certain ways as to define important communicative and/or expression oriented features such as our eyes. Think about how cheekbones are defined by light (regardless of the angle) and how they in turn sculpt the mid to lower portions of your face. This reflection of light acts as a kind of natural makeup, that we humans have learned to enhance using cosmetics. Unfortunately for many of us scar sufferers, the naturally smooth lines of reflected light from these facial contours have been broken up by uneven/atrophied skin. In that sense, rather than light being a friend that helps us look our best, it instead makes us look worse. It's akin to having blotchy makeup on your face versus makeup that flows in gentle shades of colour from light to dark and in delicate lines that form geometrically balanced mirroring patterns on either side of the face...
Thus it's no surprise I always tell my patients that the easiest way to improve their appearance is to fix the acne scars that lay on the defining contoured areas of the face. First and foremost, I focus on smoothing out the acne scars on the cheeks using autologous fat in order to bulk them up in specific proportions. I think of this procedure as being similar to how a classical sculptor chisels his Greek God marble statue. After this I focus in on the individual scars in the area with autologous collagen and/or blood. I emphasize the importance of the cheeks because they are in my opinion the overwhelming determinant of beauty. I think that anyone can be considered attractive if they have the right/smooth cheek shape which both complements and indeed enhances their unique facial features. Next on the 'order of importance' list are scars on the nose (these are rare) and finally I get rid of scars in and around the jaw line and the corner edges of the mouth. The temples, though important are in my opinion not the key to superior beauty.
I diplomatically call my acne scar revision method, "the contour enhancing procedure"... That's really what it is...
What we should share is not defined by you. Nikkigirl and I am not off topic. Everybody have the right to share what they know about scarless healing.
Please keep the board a friendly place, as stated by the board rules.
isoflous, being righteously indignant doesn't help.
They are both welcome on this thread. However I can see were Won won is coming from here. This thread is about scar free healing, not politics which removes us from the momentum of our discussion.
I have known other boards where if the subject goes off topic the moderator will remove the discussion and put it in another thread. That is the action I think Won won would have done here.
I also get the impression he is annoyed at the fact that what information we have researched and discussed on this thread could be lost. As we dont have a skeleton of what we have found.
I mean there is somenuggets of information on this thread that a newcomer would never believe was here if he read the post of Nikkigirl here.
He will find it annoying that people who come to this thread will read the first page that has no summary of what we know, then they will visit the last thread on the latest thread they will have a lottery of what information will be found.
Three Proposals for the topic
My first proposal is: add a skeleton of what has been found, add thread rules, add links to threads for political discussions, this thread should be a sticky as it is an important topic.
My second proposal is this thread should be locked and we should start a scar free healing thread 2, which should be a sticky thread that has a summary of what we have found in this thread.
The thread should also have ground rules, like no political discussions outside the line of the discussion, though it should have a link to a political discussion thread.
My third proposal is, we should have an acne.org/wiki with a scar free healing article. In the main making proposals one and two redundant.
Sorry for the language last night. I was super tired and pretty pissed off at what I was reading yet again. I agree with kirk's post above and I appreciate the collectiveness he brings to this discussion. I nominate him to summarize our findings on the ecm's we have been discussing.
Even though I am a bit miffed that Kirk would not support my proposed effort towards helping our cause, I still like that he's level-headed and on top of this thread. I appreciate that. I second the nomination. : )
Kirk: Regarding my last impassioned post - Why would you want to thwart any effort towards skin regeneration? I'm on your side and want it just as badly as you, and my suggestion to raise funding would only help.
Also, I do not feel that UBM ECM is the *complete* answer. Here's something we haven't really discussed at length on this board: Many people with acne scarring have scarring that reaches into the subcutaneous tissues (afterall, sebaceous follicles in the face are rooted in the subcuti, not in the dermis...). So we need something that can regenerate perhaps the superficial top layer of the subcutaneous tissues as well as the epidermis and dermis, and do so in a way that the skin has an appealing texture to it and blends well with surrounding skin. As far as I know UBM ECM does not regenerate subcutaneous tissue. It can regenerate bone and skin, but not the fatty tissue underneath. But if you look at those photos on Acell's site showing before and after pics of animals, animals that had "to-the-bone" injuries did not regenerate the fatty layer, but were able to grow skin to close the wound. The stem cells that differentiate into adipocytes (fat cells) are different from the ones that differentiate into skin. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong on this.
Another important point: facial skin has a unique texture different from that of skin on any other part of the body. This is due to the huge number of sebaceous follicles (follicles with a very tiny vellus hair and large sebaceous glands at the bottom of the follicle root) on the face. The face has literally 10,000 follicles, and we might be able to regenerate skin, but regenerating a follicle - which is a very complex little structure - is much more difficult. You might be able to regenerate SKIN, but it will not have any follicles, and so will look different. Many of us are also not taking into account that if we've had acne, follicles and underlying subcutaneous tissue maybe be damaged and if you remove the skin down to the deepest layers, you may reveal mottled areas of subcutaneous tissue. If skin grows over that tissue, it will have that same mottled texture. In very serious cases of nodular cystic acne, literal tunnels exist in the subcutaneous tissues. These are called "sinus tracts" and can be "unroofed" during deep dermabrasion, causing disfiguring scarring. I don't know how many of us need to worry about that aspect, but we need to consider that.
Anyways, I hope I'm being somewhat coherent. I just wanted to get all this out and see what people have to say about this.
Also, I do not feel that UBM ECM is the *complete* answer. Here's something we haven't really discussed at length on this board: Many people with acne scarring have scarring that reaches into the subcutaneous tissues (afterall, sebaceous follicles in the face are rooted in the subcuti, not in the dermis...). So we need something that can regenerate perhaps the superficial top layer of the subcutaneous tissues as well as the epidermis and dermis, and do so in a way that the skin has an appealing texture to it and blends well with surrounding skin. As far as I know UBM ECM does not regenerate subcutaneous tissue. It can regenerate bone and skin, but not the fatty tissue underneath.
So essentially are you saying that deeper scarring couldn't be helped by skin regenerating technology?