Acne.org Products
another method researchers are currently tinkering with:
oligo decoys as natural therapeutics for inhibition of tissue fibrosis and scarring
Wound healing is a very complex procedure and involves both inflammatory responses and the mechanical environment.
The drugs you mentioned target only inflammatory responses and do not influence the mechanical environment and so will not lead to completely scarless healing.
You can refer to this news report: http://stanmed.stanford.edu/2007fall/scar-wars.html
Or you can search PLoS Medicine for hypertrophic scar formation following burns and trauma:new approached to treatment to see the article written by the team.
well...the united states will probably never lead the way in research.i think the chinese are learning fast and will surpass us in the medical field.even if we find a treatment..with the current state of the economy..few will even be able to afford it.most people cant even afford the hugh costs of going to college today.
Currently the bulk of regenerative medicine research and development is occurring in the US. However as stated previously, the European Union member states, China, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Russia, India and many others are harvesting portions of their intellectual/business potential by incubating similarly oriented bio-tech companies. Indeed just in the last five years, research into such things as scarless healing has more then octupled. The driver of such exponential growth in directly related R&D budgets is not only based on ethical and moral considerations, but also on capitalist aspirations. Any mass produced/patented therapy that can produce scarless healing/tissue regeneration (external and internal) would give rise to a new industry that some analysts predict will be worth more than 50 billion dollars in its infancy alone. So we're viewing the rise of the regenerative bio-tech industry just as some may have witnessed the PC and semiconductor industry hit a similar phase of development in the early to mid 80s. From here on in the advancements (aka: evolutionary steps of product development) along with some revolutionary strides will be coming ever faster than what anyone has thought possible thus far. One of the reasons for this is that various disciplines and indeed knowledge 'trajectories' stemming from all sorts of corporate and academic research are converging. For example genetic engineering (gene up/down regulation) coupled to histological studies focused on protein signalling (growth factors, interleukins, etc) is producing some interesting potentialities for scarless tissue regeneration.
Anyway, to brighten everyone's day, I will give you the link to yet another company called Histogen Inc that is developing products that can lead to scarless healing. Its researchers are developing ECM pads similar to those produced by Acell, but also an injectable ECM liquid that stimulates intradermal regeneration. This product not only holds the potential of maximally treating acne scars, but also could allow the formation of new hair follicles where scar tissue has formed. Histogen's ECM is however different from the xenogeneic Acell product, in that it is derived from human tissues. Thereby it is actually an hECM (human extracellular matrix) based technology. Furthermore Histogen's hECM is derived from foetal fibroblasts, which means it is composed of the GFs, ILs and other structural components that makeup the embryonic tissues. This suggests that the proper scarless regeneration histological signals are embedded in Histogen's ECM product(s) and thus will foster scarless regeneration in adult skin.
Here's the link and enjoy the read: http://www.histogeninc.com/
Whats pharmacys have acell stocked?my doctor could rx the stuff if i told her who had it.i think i know rupert from another forum.i went to tijuana for about 40ccs of precise injections.
Nikki, strangely Acell is not currently available in any US pharmacy but it IS available for purchase directly from the company; just go to acell.com and either email them or telephone them and they will explain what you are required to do. All I know is that you need the delivery address to be in the United States and that your doctor has to provide a prescription to Acell. As long as your doctor is fully recognised by the Mexican health authorities I'm sure Acell will supply the ECM to you.
That said I have yet to read about anybody actually getting hold of the stuff so clearly it is not as easy as indicated.
On the matter of Acell I would love to know what is the status of those US soldiers that have been using Acell since July on their wounds/burns. It's a real shame Acell is not efficient with updating its website.
***Have you guys read about a product called BioNuesis (manufactured by Histogen) - A Human Extracellular Matrix for Stem Cell Culture Applications:
http://www.bionuesis.com/product-info.htm
Despite not being directly targeted as a skin regeneration, this product is similar to Acell in that it is an Extracellular Matrix, however it is derived from human elements rather than pig bladder. Nevertheless, the underlying theory states that human ECM should be as effective as animal ECM; it's posited that the reason our intestines don't scar is mainly due to the large supply of ECM in that region. The human intestines are one of the fewest regions of the body to keep their ECM capabilities after childhood.
The sites states:
BioNuesis contains natural human extracellular matrix proteins including laminin, collagen IV and fibronectin. Full characterization of BioNuesis has not yet been completed. BioNuesis is intended for the adherence and expansion of cells in culture, including stem and progenitor cells, such as human ES cells. Many other cell types which require the ECM proteins laminin, fibronectin or collagen type IV can also be cultured with BioNuesis.
It's available for purchase and the company is giving away a free sample on each first order. The catch is that they state their ECM is for "research" purposes only and not therapeutic, but I'm wondering why this is stated. I'd like to know what actual harm would be done if their ECM was used on human skin.
Nevertheless, the substance does sound promising. Post back what you think.
Its researchers are developing ECM pads similar to those produced by Acell, but also an injectable ECM liquid that stimulates intradermal regeneration. This product not only holds the potential of maximally treating acne scars, but also could allow the formation of new hair follicles where scar tissue has formed.
Hey there Bulgarian Derm, could you provide an opinion??? Regarding tiny pitted scars - How would you surmise this histogen product would fair on "filling in" excisions with a diameter of 1-1.5mm (these excisions may reach down into the subcuti in order to excise the whole follicle)? Let's say we use everything at our disposal - LLLT + filling the wound with injectable Histogen and giving subsequent injections until it's done healing ----- Do you think that we currently have the technology to completely regenerate such a small portion of missing tissue? Just starting small.......
Thanks!!!
HoldOntoHope
Histogen has been discussed a lot on this thread if you dig back a few pages.
As for the recent article I posted not attacking the "second" way scars form and therefore not being able to acheive true scarless healing I say BAH. I've already posted info supporting a debunking of the mechanical stress theory to scarring.
Adult skin grafted onto a fetus that is in the womb (in a mechanical stress free enviornment) still scars.
It is possible that more mechanical stress leads to more inflammation which leads to more chance of a scar ....however if you are able to suppress that inflammation the wound shouldn't scar.
Hey there Bulgarian Derm, could you provide an opinion??? Regarding tiny pitted scars - How would you surmise this histogen product would fair on "filling in" excisions with a diameter of 1-1.5mm (these excisions may reach down into the subcuti in order to excise the whole follicle)? Let's say we use everything at our disposal - LLLT + filling the wound with injectable Histogen and giving subsequent injections until it's done healing ----- Do you think that we currently have the technology to completely regenerate such a small portion of missing tissue? Just starting small.......
Thanks!!!
HoldOntoHope
Hi HoldOntoHope,
I believe we currently have the technology to fully flatten acne scars. This can be done even without a product such as Histogen's Regenica. However, what Regenica and other such products will likely be able to do goes above and beyond the simple flattening of hypotrophic scars. Such products will likely be viable for treating recent severely injured skin, such as in the case of direct tissue loss from mechanical (tearing, friction, cut etc) accidents and or third degree burns. The whole concept of utilizing foetal cells in order to develop the hECM that is structurally identical to that of an embryo in the first trimester will really give us the kind of regenerative powers we can only dream of right now. That said, I don't know if Histogen's foetal fibroblasts are taken in the first three moths of embryonic development. Anyway, couple this technology to MMP9 gene upregulation, and an artificial blastema and we'll likely be able to treat skin that's even more damaged than what we acne scar sufferers have dealt with.
Hey, Bulgarian Derm, also could you tell us more about what MMP9 gene upregulation is?
Also, do you think we'll get to the point where we'll be able to someday soon regenerate not only the epidermis and dermis, but some superficially damaged subcutaneous tissue as well as is the case with third degree burns?
And another thing - many people on this forum have not hypertrophic scars, but depressed scars due to missing tissue. I think it's far easier to dissolve excess scar tissue than regenerate missing tissues..... What are your thoughts on that?
And lastly, do you think we'll ever be able to regenerate a fully-functioning epidermis on top of a newly generated dermis...and/or skin with follicles (so the texture looks normal)....???
THANKS!
Hi again,
Well the MMP9 gene is thought to foster better regeneration. Some call it the scarless regeneration gene. There are actually other genes that have also been identified for this purpose and there are all sorts of experiments currently being conducted throughout the world wherein gene engineers are utilizing any means available to up and down regulate genes that express either favourable or unfavourable cellular functionalities specifically related to tissue regeneration. Basically some genes help scarless healing and others counter it, so one wants to up-regulate (stimulate) those that are favourable and down-regulate (suppress) the rest.
I also do think that one day we'll be able to regenerate anything and everything. I truly believe that there will come a day when the word scar and/or the phrase "amputated tissue/limb" will not be utilized in the common lexicon. We know this is all possible, and it's really a matter of time. In fact there is nothing out there that tells me humankind will not be able to acquire the technological capability to make injured tissue as good as new, or an elderly body as healthy and attractive as that of a young adult alpha specimen.
So in the future even if a person has all their skin burned (dermis and subcutaneous tissues included), we'll be able to not only save their life, but also regenerate the afflicted skin (normal follicles, healthy texture etc) and have this human being go back to his/her normal life looking just as beautiful as ever, if not more so, within a few short days of accelerated genetic treatment. However, even in the very near future we'll likely achieve great success with the slower and indeed more rudimentary combination treatments I mentioned above.
As I say, we're in the midst of a new technological revolution that is simply a product of technological convergence that takes advantage of exponentially increased computing power, inter-lab communication, inter-disciplinary coordination, capital creation potentials for commercial realizations of related product lines and of course the fact that now we have bio-tech R&D happening all over the world and not just in a few wealthy countries. In other words, we're utilizing a lot more brainpower and innovation oriented ressources then we ever have in the history of mankind.
Adult skin grafted onto a fetus that is in the womb (in a mechanical stress free enviornment) still scars.
It is possible that more mechanical stress leads to more inflammation which leads to more chance of a scar ....however if you are able to suppress that inflammation the wound shouldn't scar.
Again IMO it all leads back to the ECM factor, I've read some where (wish I'd tagged it for a cite) more or so like this:
that in the first three months of pregnancy the embryo tissue is differentiating and the ECM turnover production is exponently increased compared to an adult tissue that has a general maintenance turnover level.
This to me would suggest the Adult tissue, which has a lesser level of turn over with regards to ECM, when attatched to the embryo, will bring a response similar to adult tissues that do not turnover ECM, and as such you get scar in the embryo,
Also my further hypothesis bit here would be: the scar would be roughly 50% less of the of the scarring response youad get in an adult tissue, due to the fact that the adult tissue with low turnover ECM which scars, comes into contact with the embryonic tissue with high turnover ECM which does not scar... etc.
Unfortunately I donat have a garden shed with a lab facility and a pregnant mammal at hand, or rules on ethicsa
So is histogen available for consumers to order or is a prescription required? I have a meeting with my dermatologist this Thursday and would like to know what would be the best way to use acell or histogen so I can try to get him on board with it. Should I get fraxel repair, excisions, needling, subcision, and so on. Iam kinda confused on how to actually utilize the product once itas acquired. Any comments and opinions would be appreciated thanks.
Wound healing is a very complex procedure and involves both inflammatory responses and the mechanical environment.
The drugs you mentioned target only inflammatory responses and do not influence the mechanical environment and so will not lead to completely scarless healing.
You can refer to this news report: http://stanmed.stanford.edu/2007fall/scar-wars.html
Or you can search PLoS Medicine for hypertrophic scar formation following burns and trauma:new approached to treatment to see the article written by the team.
When you look at anything microscopically everything looks very complex.
We are not at the stage where we can develop a micro machine that replicates what ECM can do etc.
But as you can imagine, with ECM regenerating local tissue that also inhibits the inflammation response. Can you imagine how much local tissue would be available by stopping the inflammatory response. I mean lets say you are cut, and have to wait 24hours for a delivery of ECM, but this stuff is available etc... 24hours later there would still be the preferred tissue for the ECM to regenerate.
There is currently one product in the market that controls the mechanical environment and thus reducing scarring: the botulinum toxin which we use for wrinkles.
The site is as follows: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/200...c-bth080806.php
It has 62% improvement (a=10-7.1=2.9; b=10-8.9=1.1; (a-b)/a*100%=62.069%)
This is better than Juvista, which gives only 50% of improvement.
If Botox is used in combination with Juvista in scar revision, I believe that scars can have a 80%+ improvement.
I wonder why public hospitals arnt using anything to prevent bad scarring
from what I know they dont, atleat not in Europe. a relative to me is having surgery in some months, and I wounder if there is anything on the maket which could improve Here scaring
my feeling is that is all hype. but if there really is a clinical product on the market then I would really like to know. sorry for going little out topic. interesting thread
Well im thinking about ordering histogen, so how would i apply the product? use it as a filler, after excisions, subcision, or needling? im asking for an opinion, i know most here aren't qualified to know. My doctor agreed to contact A-cell, so i think im gonna do fraxel re-pair during December so i have a month to heal before going back to grad school.
Please someone get some answers on acell or give advice on these other things. These new scarless healing techniques are about all i have left for hope. Every doctor I see now tells me there is absolutely nothing he can do to help me, the man I had a consultation with today told me to wear a tshirt, have a drink, and live my life. I want to go swimming.
I advise you to put off the surgery if it's not urgent until there is finally something on the market to prevent scarring.
Otherwise, I'm afraid you will regret.
Please someone get some answers on acell or give advice on these other things. These new scarless healing techniques are about all i have left for hope. Every doctor I see now tells me there is absolutely nothing he can do to help me, the man I had a consultation with today told me to wear a tshirt, have a drink, and live my life. I want to go swimming.
The reason why we don't have any answers for acell is pretty simple. Most doctors are indifferent. I've been trying to find at least one caring soul in a doctor since I last posted I don't know how long ago now, and I can't get one (out of maybe 20 attempts) to agree to have a consultation with me without 100-200 dollars in their hand to begin with. This business (cosmetology) is such a rank joke to me. They aren't real doctors in these fields. There is no heart out there and to think that if only for a sum of money there may be a little mental closure, it kind proves this whole process to be just a little bit disingenuous.
If anyone wants to sponsor a poor college student to actually see a local (South Bay, California) doctor, message me. I know just what to say to these people; however, they could care less unless the green opens it's mouth first.
We need to basically wait for a new generation of doctors. The older dermatologists are unwilling to change their habits because they make money doing what they're doing. The new generation will see that there is money in actually giving us what we want. I would pay a lot of money for a cure, I do mean a lot. If they had a procedure for $50-100k that was 100% effective, I would definitely consider it. Doctors are bad at being adaptable, they spend 7 years in college learning the same thing that change seems impractical after such a great investment.
Ok, so I have not been on this board in quite some time and am wondering how this will help depressed acne scars. Like most, after spending lots of $$ on dermabrasion, fraxel, excisions, silicone microdroplet, etc.. I have given up. The good news about having given up is that I have finally been able to get my credit card balances down, which were horrendous when I was at the height of my depression over this. Unfortunately, after all of the procedures, my scars still look pretty much the same.
If there is anything worth pursuing that is more effective, then please let me know.
FYI...there is an interesting story about a male model who was able to go from 5'10 to 6'2 with leg lengthening surgery, and come out of it functioning compleletly normal in only 6 months time. Yes, folks, you heard it from me, you can buy a pair of long legs, but cannot buy scarless skin. If they can grow bones, then why can't we take care of such a nothing little problem like depressed acne scars??!!