Acne.org Products
I'm guessing this is the product Tony Is talking about...
http://www.apligraf.com/patient/what_is_ap...d_apligraf.html
Really interesting post lamarr, thanks for that link. Although not explicitly expressed on their site, it would appear that this Apligraf product has the same approach as Acell's ECM when it comes to active wound healing. Their website indicates that Apligraf "delivers ingredients such as growth factors, cells, proteins to the wound directly"; which basically makes it almost like an extra cellular matrix, it's just strange they don't mention this.
Another point, they say Apligraf has active wound healing but target the product to the foot and leg sore market. Does this mean it is ineffective at preventing scar tissue formation? Some of those pre-care ulcer/sore photos are pretty exposed and explicit, if Apligraf can heal them back to normal skin health then why can't it work with excised scars?
And this product is also already out as well? Another thing to look into 
.
Thanks lamarr.
I'm guessing this is the product Tony Is talking about...
http://www.apligraf.com/patient/what_is_ap...d_apligraf.html
Really interesting post lamarr, thanks for that link. Although not explicitly expressed on their site, it would appear that this Apligraf product has the same approach as Acell's ECM when it comes to active wound healing. Their website indicates that Apligraf "delivers ingredients such as growth factors, cells, proteins to the wound directly"; which basically makes it almost like an extra cellular matrix, it's just strange they don't mention this.
Another point, they say Apligraf has active wound healing but target the product to the foot and leg sore market. Does this mean it is ineffective at preventing scar tissue formation? Some of those pre-care ulcer/sore photos are pretty exposed and explicit, if Apligraf can heal them back to normal skin health then why can't it work with excised scars?
And this product is also already out as well? Another thing to look into
Thanks lamarr.
No problemo, i think someone should email them and ask about potential acne scar revision using their products. I think you guys looking to use acell should try cutting out a small section of skin elsewhere on your body before you do anything on your face.
I am looking to try it in combination with agressive dermaroller, if required i would use a home roller daily to allow penetration of the product.
Those of you who have non sensitive skin (i have rosacea) should try acell in combo with a mild peel to remove the epidermis and then do some dermaroller. This should enable the product to be delivered effectively and will avoid potential further scarring. If needed the peel and the roller can be done on different days, just aslong as when you are healing from the dermaroller the epidermis is not present.
Since I have visible scar tissue, if I ever got hold of some Acell, my aim would be to remove about 0.5cm in length of the scar tissue with a scalpel and apply Acell to that area. Leaving the remaining scar tissue in tact would ensure the wound can heal with the need of stitches as the scar tissue acts almost as support.
My thinking is if you applied Acell like that it wouldn't work. It would regenerate the scar tissue that is near to it, because it regenerates what type of softer tissue is nearest to it (if scar it is scar, skin it is skin, heart it is heart etc.).
What I reckon you would get is skin from the skin side, and scar from the scar side, and you might reduce you wound by 0.25cm, instead of the 0.5cm. saying the ecm was allowed to regenerate with scar tissue.
Perhaps it would work in the long run if say you had a repetitive revision strategy... Where every time you revised 0.5cm you'd get 0.25cm scar and 0.25skin at a repetitive pattern interval or something until the scar side eventually reaches the skin side.
Thx Neca,
I will try the acell and fraxel repair mid-October. Dont worry i will make a log throughout my experience and update everyone who is interested. if i see noticeable improvement, i might try acell on excision and subcision. Right now seems like applying it after fraxel would be a good way of testing it.
What is a PS?
Where did you find a doctor willing to try ACell with your fraxel re:pair / how did you get ACell?
Are you using the powder or ECM?
I think the PS maybe a little bit right, I too worry that fraxel does not do enough to injure the skin so ACell may not work properly here. However, it certainly wouldn't hurt and I'd say there's a good chance it could help.
also i contacted a PS about the adding acell to the procedure and this was the response if anyone was curious. "....that treatment is "way overkill" as the Fraxelis not a full thickness injury which is what the ECM is designed for." let me know thoughts on this subject.
I don't see how it is way overkill.... Anything that speeds wound healing is going to be beneficial for collagen placement.
I saw Dr Chu this evening for an emergency consultation, he is such a busy man now but it is good to see someone so pasionate. He was working till 8pm this evening.... He is the person to talk to for anyone in the UK looking to try the Acell....
Lamar-
Don't give us the teaser! What did Dr. Chu say about ACell?
Didn't you read the emails I posted on the previous page from Dr Chu? He only learned of its existence this week! So I doubt he has much on an opinion yet! But he is the man!, if Acell is any good I'm sure he'll be the first to use it on acne scars in the UK.
I hope Acell will be available over here in the UK soon!
Just another interesting bit in the vein of skin regeneration. Apparantly the Chinese have a method of regenerating skin after deep second (reaching the deep dermis) and superficial third degree (just into the subcutaneous tissue) burns with no scarring. Crazy.
http://books.google.com/books?id=PsF2IUL-S...3&ct=result
Lamar-
Don't give us the teaser! What did Dr. Chu say about ACell?
Didn't you read the emails I posted on the previous page from Dr Chu? He only learned of its existence this week! So I doubt he has much on an opinion yet! But he is the man!, if Acell is any good I'm sure he'll be the first to use it on acne scars in the UK.
I hope Acell will be available over here in the UK soon!
Yeah what 'crappyskin' said!!
I just love the fact i was there at 7:30 in the evening and he was still rushing about dermarolling two people in the minor procedures room. I get to see him every 2 months and know that when acell is in use (or something similar) i will be able to have it used on me by one of the most experienced there is.... I always relay any information i find so don't worry if i hear anything i will let everyone know!!
I saw an excellent programme on the history of plastic surgery. After all these years of research and treatment, it joined up all the loose ends for me. 
I think the bottom line is this, all the approaches we have at the moment to treat damaged skin have been refined as much as they can be. The next leap for plastic surgery is the leap to cell regeneration (think ear on mouse) coupled with scarless healing for the transplant.
Thats the bottom line and its so simple. Normally the truth is. I just don't know what the time frame will be before you can walk into a dermatologists office and hes going to recommend you have your face skin cells regenerated and subsequently grafted in place of the scars with scarless healing technology. For the perfect correction. Maybe 10 years time, maybe 100.
So I apologise to those on this thread who I originally branded fantasists and dreamers. cell regeneration is definitely what plastic surgery is currently aiming for. Sure, profiteers will still be looking at producing today a money spin latest filler. But this is just a time filler, until the next leap in technology makes all these methods outdated. Fillers will one day be seen as old technology.
Several examples were given in this programme of the fact that we are merely refining old techniques at the present. Hot paraffin wax was once the latest filler, just as restylane is today. And 100 years ago they were looking for the 'perfect filler', and well, we are still looking for it now. Its likely than no non-autologous object will ever be a 'perfect filler'.
The best example though was of correction of serious burns. Only relatively small advances/modifications have been made in treating these people since plastic surgery really took off in the Second World War, correctly pilots with terrible avaiation fuel burns. Thats why when you see somebody who has undergone 50 operations today to correct serious burns by the world's most respected surgeons, the person still looks very disfigured. Thats the reality. All the surgeons know what the next advance has got to be - cell regeneration.
I find it very comforting to now feel that I know everything there is to know about the present state of play, in correcting skin. I know the limitations and likely benefits. I think its key to keep expectations only as realistic as the treatments we have at the moment. One day, treating scars will be a perfect procedure due to the new/different approach. Maybe thats in our lifetime, maybe its not. But we are alive today, not tomorrow, and its important to live for today.
I saw an excellent programme on the history of plastic surgery. After all these years of research and treatment, it joined up all the loose ends for me.
Thats the bottom line and its so simple. Normally the truth is. I just don't know what the time frame will be before you can walk into a dermatologists office and hes going to recommend you have your face skin cells regenerated and subsequently grafted in place of the scars with scarless healing technology. For the perfect correction. Maybe 10 years time, maybe 100.
So I apologise to those on this thread who I originally branded fantasists and dreamers. cell regeneration is definitely what plastic surgery is currently aiming for. Sure, profiteers will still be looking at producing today a money spin latest filler. But this is just a time filler, until the next leap in technology makes all these methods outdated. Fillers will one day be seen as old technology.
Several examples were given in this programme of the fact that we are merely refining old techniques at the present. Hot paraffin wax was once the latest filler, just as restylane is today. And 100 years ago they were looking for the 'perfect filler', and well, we are still looking for it now. Its likely than no non-autologous object will ever be a 'perfect filler'.
The best example though was of correction of serious burns. Only relatively small advances/modifications have been made in treating these people since plastic surgery really took off in the Second World War, correctly pilots with terrible avaiation fuel burns. Thats why when you see somebody who has undergone 50 operations today to correct serious burns by the world's most respected surgeons, the person still looks very disfigured. Thats the reality. All the surgeons know what the next advance has got to be - cell regeneration.
I find it very comforting to now feel that I know everything there is to know about the present state of play, in correcting skin. I know the limitations and likely benefits. I think its key to keep expectations only as realistic as the treatments we have at the moment. One day, treating scars will be a perfect procedure due to the new/different approach. Maybe thats in our lifetime, maybe its not. But we are alive today, not tomorrow, and its important to live for today.
Hey rupert look at these photos:
Apparently done with a lesser ECM. As you can see near 100% regeneration.
We are in an exciting period here with Acell. In the coming months Acell will either take off or fail completely. And even if it doesn't take off we should be asking about the ECM that person had.
Rupert, I dont know about your lifetime. But im VERY sure that in my lifetime scars CAN and WILL be removed.
Ive seen a documentary called 2054, by that period of time in years, Humans will have a mastery of replacing every body parts and organs( except the brain maybe ). Have a failed heart? Change a newly grown one right out from your own stem cells. Have a failed kidney or loss of your right arm? Same thing.
In fact it might even be closer. in 2006, Ellen heber katz predicted that heart regeneration is around the corner. Shes right. She predicted that in 5-10 years time( from 2006 ) that we will be able to replace fingers. And a few more years after that, limb regeneration.
Also, EVERY expert agreed that scarless healing is not an impossible goal, that says something. Its all a matter of time, research and money. This gives me an optimistic view as I believe to be able to reach a goal, you have to believe in it. Thus, in my mind, its already a done deal that they will get something done.
On the last note, look at how FAST advancements are going around these days. What people fail to realise is that we are living in a period of exponential development. In this 21st century, we are living in a period where Humans has gained hold of the mastery of science and technology.
Okay, this may be bothering to the realm of science fiction/fantasy. But there are many respected scientists( Ray Kurzweil and Aubrey De Grey ) who have predicted that humans will actually be able to radically extend their lifespan this century( and I mean RADICALLY, like hundreds of years ). What does that mean? Anti-aging. So if they could even stop aging, what more some skin defects?
As you said it all boils down to a matter of time. But im sure its within my lifetime.
Rupert, I dont know about your lifetime. But im VERY sure that in my lifetime scars CAN and WILL be removed.
Ive seen a documentary called 2054, by that period of time in years, Humans will have a mastery of replacing every body parts and organs( except the brain maybe ). Have a failed heart? Change a newly grown one right out from your own stem cells. Have a failed kidney or loss of your right arm? Same thing.
In fact it might even be closer. in 2006, Ellen heber katz predicted that heart regeneration is around the corner. Shes right. She predicted that in 5-10 years time( from 2006 ) that we will be able to replace fingers. And a few more years after that, limb regeneration.
Also, EVERY expert agreed that scarless healing is not an impossible goal, that says something. Its all a matter of time, research and money. This gives me an optimistic view as I believe to be able to reach a goal, you have to believe in it. Thus, in my mind, its already a done deal that they will get something done.
On the last note, look at how FAST advancements are going around these days. What people fail to realise is that we are living in a period of exponential development. In this 21st century, we are living in a period where Humans has gained hold of the mastery of science and technology.
Okay, this may be bothering to the realm of science fiction/fantasy. But there are many respected scientists( Ray Kurzweil and Aubrey De Grey ) who have predicted that humans will actually be able to radically extend their lifespan this century( and I mean RADICALLY, like hundreds of years ). What does that mean? Anti-aging. So if they could even stop aging, what more some skin defects?
As you said it all boils down to a matter of time. But im sure its within my lifetime.
Very true tgan... Well said!
PS: The bi-monthly 24-28 joule/cm2 hyperdose using LED photobiomodulation seems to be working very well as an addition to the 4-8 joule/cm2 daily doses.
thanks for posting tgan.
I was just looking at your profile and it was you who posted that excellent quote I am going to use on Wednesday if this PS starts recommending c02 laser resurfacing.
You call lasers the "gold standard" of acne scarring treatment? WTF??? Thats like calling a wooden hut a five star hotel...
thats pure class. I recently saw a PS as I was wanting maybe dermal graft or fat injection or evolence. Instead this grumpy doc leaned back in his chair, yawned and went,
"the gold standard treatment of acne scarring is resurfacing with cos2 laser"
He didn't like it all when i turned round and went "can't have that, met a few people with permanent waxy skin after that and pigmentation problems" - lol that shut him up. He assumed I knew nothing of scar procedures.
As for what you and bulgarian dermatolgist were saying, I too obviously hope that perfect skin correction will come as soon as possible. However, I am not going to put my life/scar treatments on hold waiting for it. My concern is that priority will go to those with serious anatomical needs, heart, kidney etc. I wonder how long it will take before you get docs ACTUALLY doing it for acne scars, something considered cosmetic. but lets hope its soon. keep the faith.
Here's an article from back in 2005 on fetal stem cells healing severe burns (including 3rd degree burns which go to the subcutaneous layer) in children with NO scarring:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/18/science/18burn.html
Here's an article from back in 2005 on fetal stem cells healing severe burns (including 3rd degree burns which go to the subcutaneous layer) in children with NO scarring:
Are you sure they said NO scarring? Because I only read they were impressed. If its true they should start using this method even if it means using aborted fetuses. If a fetus is already dead, why not help others?
if you read one article on the subject, you might see that it says they're impressed, but different reporters write from different angles and some of the reports of this said the skin was very much near normal if not totally normal with completely normal pigmentation.
Also, did you guys read the post I made on MEBO/MEBT Burns Regenerative Therapy? Look it up on google. The chinese have found a way to treat deep second degree and superficial third degree (just into the subcutaneous layer with little to NO scarring.
if you read one article on the subject, you might see that it says they're impressed, but different reporters write from different angles and some of the reports of this said the skin was very much near normal if not totally normal with completely normal pigmentation.
Also, did you guys read the post I made on MEBO/MEBT Burns Regenerative Therapy? Look it up on google. The chinese have found a way to treat deep second degree and superficial third degree (just into the subcutaneous layer with little to NO scarring.
This is why we need a wiki.
Over the past 18month, we have come across stuff that stops inflammation; we elber-katz and other stuff ontop of Acell... Then over time people come to this thread that has 54 pages, and discuss the stuff that is more widely known and miss out on stuff like that.
We don't know if it even does that. The problem is that we just don't know. Is it "significant improvement" on par with fraxel? Because that's not ahead of the curve and definitely not worth it. But if it really does help out a lot, I definitely agree, a way more effective (but not perfect) treatment is still much more desirable than what we have.
kim said:Hi FranklinCan you also email me the name of the doctor who uses the acell on surgical scars? Does anyone know if any docs are using it on surgical scars? my email is [removed]
Dr. Umar is looking for appropriate patients to use it on. You can find his site online and email him your photos.
first of all a question?how do the chinese govt. have on restrictions on stem cell reseach?if they have none then i think they will pass the united states in the field of medicine very soon.if we would quit spending billions in iraq we might have some money for research but at least acell did come about as a project to see if the us military could grow back limbs on service members who lost them in iraq.second...whats pharmacys have acell stocked?my doctor could rx the stuff if i told her who had it.i think i know rupert from another forum.i went to tijuana for about 40ccs of precise injections.