On 3/1/2020 at 1:19 PM, lehran said:Don't want to be the party pooper, but there's been literally no positive sign that sunogel will bring anything to the table: no big investors working with them, no scientists recognized by their peers, no real theory as to how they'r going to procede, 0 news since years, barely any information available.
like, the only thing we know about sunogel is that it''s about pro-regenerative hydrogel, but there are no patents, no viable published results so far, and so on...
Don't count on it too much, most clinical trial companies end up being disappointments.
If you're interested in proper tissue regeneration/scar healing companies, the only really promising companies so far seem to be elastagen (tropoelastin) or direct biologics (exosomes), for all the reasons that were mentioned beforehand.
Sunogel's been working on it for ten years it says on their website where they also say that they've actually achieved full skin restoration in their pre-clinical phase. If they're lying then that's psychopathic/sociopathic/whatever which isn't outside of the realm of possibility but I don't think they're frauds.
Maybe some of things you brought up are bad signs but I'm still interested in them. Of course you've gotta avoid getting too excited too soon. That's true but I've seen Mr. Sun in a video where he addressed an audience and he really didn't seem to be talking out of his ass.
9 hours ago, AlexZ77 said:Yeah its possible that elastagen will do that but lets be real most people here if not all wont be satisfied until they get 100% improvement
Alright, got Ya. I don't know though, like for stuff like big hypertrophic scars I would totally want something like a 100% treatment because they are very visible, but stretch marks are often relatively discrete once they faded. Imo 80-90% diminution would probably be enough for me.
55 minutes ago, Scarcure said:I had enough with this 70% to 90% improvement talk , we want complete regeneration ....
and let's say you have to wait 20 years for your scars/stretch marks/acne scars to get 100% deleted? You have the option to get a 80-90% reduction in a couple years but you won't because it's not 100%? This doesn't make any sense does it...
I had my scars reducted by like 40% by 7 treatments with co2+prp and its great and all but I would personally never do them again. Most people had some kind of improvement here but we just understood that its not worth the time. I wont get any treatment done unless it will give me perfect scarless skin and I feel others here also think alike
You guys are relying way too much on numbers, that's not how you should look at it:
is the reduction going to be the same from one technique to the other? No, not at all. Some techniques involve tissue regeneration, some involve skin tightening yada yada yada...and the results will vary a lot from one technique to the other.
For instance (yes, elastagen again, sorry), for atrophic scars, acne scars and stretch marks tropoelastin skin implants would be about the "volume", since you're filling the skin lesions with synthetic skin. What it would mean in that case, is that if the treatment works, the synthethic skin will fill the lesion up to 80-90%. So essentially the void left will be drastically repaired, and instead of the alien scarring tissue look, you'll have the original skin look back, but the void won't be 100% filled, but 80-90%;
Do you get the difference? It does't mean that the overall look will be 80-90% better in this case, it means that the void left by atrophic scars won't be 100% filled by new skin. The truth is that it's going to be significantly difficult for anyone, including yourself, to notice a difference anymore.
You can't compare the current technics for skin lesions, which don't regenerate shit for the most part, to future ones. The main thing that was lacking so far was to obtain proper tissue regeneration was elastogenesis (re-creation of elastin fibers), and we're getting there.
So, again, this isn't a 80-90% improvement based on the current standars, but on the new ones.
NB: I'm not making up anything, this is basically how it works.
On 3/2/2020 at 2:19 PM, lehran said:Main concern is the price as well. If you're something like 20-40 years old, it's good, as you'll indeed still be relatively young to enjoy stuff (especially with how drastically longer life will be in the future with biotechnology).
I'm just hoping elastagen can give improvement in acne scar besides rolling scars. Those seem ideal to have something injected under them to add volume. For boxcar and ice pick scars I'm a little more hesitant to believe that the technology will give normal looking skin, just only 80% filled in. We will see with time I suppose.
2 hours ago, goblue1996 said:I'm just hoping elastagen can give improvement in acne scar besides rolling scars. Those seem ideal to have something injected under them to add volume. For boxcar and ice pick scars I'm a little more hesitant to believe that the technology will give normal looking skin, just only 80% filled in. We will see with time I suppose.
The thing is that rolling scars are in need of improved options too. Filler isn't a permanent solution. It's costly, sometimes comes in uneven, and requires subcision. Rolling scars and boxcar scars are often more noticeable at distance than ice pick scars. Plus, ice pick scars have available options too. TCA cross typically is a great treatment option. Tretinoin and 0.3% adapalene even make a difference on ice pick scars. There was a recent peer-reviewed study done using 0.3% adapalene, and it found that using adapalene was particularly effective in treating ice pick scars. The difference from 0.1% adapalene wasn't statistically significant.
21 hours ago, voulzeyes said:and let's say you have to wait 20 years for your scars/stretch marks/acne scars to get 100% deleted? You have the option to get a 80-90% reduction in a couple years but you won't because it's not 100%? This doesn't make any sense does it...
It ain't going to be that long.
1 hour ago, Skin Pessimist said:The thing is that rolling scars are in need of improved options too. Filler isn't a permanent solution. It's costly, sometimes comes in uneven, and requires subcision. Rolling scars and boxcar scars are often more noticeable at distance than ice pick scars. Plus, ice pick scars have available options too. TCA cross typically is a great treatment option. Tretinoin and 0.3% adapalene even make a difference on ice pick scars. There was a recent peer-reviewed study done using 0.3% adapalene, and it found that using adapalene was particularly effective in treating ice pick scars. The difference from 0.1% adapalene wasn't statistically significant.
Yeah for sure rolling scars needbetter treatments too. Just hoping that it'll also help out other types. Hopefully since tropoelastin is a natural substance that the results would be permanent.
1 hour ago, Scarcure said:It ain't going to be that long.
No one knows how long this would be. 100% = perfection. That's damn hard to achieve, if even possible.
I can't stress this enough though: stop focusing on percentages, and start to take a look at the methods which will be used to treat the aforementioned skin lesions. That's what truly matters.
12 hours ago, lehran said:No one knows how long this would be. 100% = perfection. That's damn hard to achieve, if even possible.
I can't stress this enough though: stop focusing on percentages, and start to take a look at the methods which will be used to treat the aforementioned skin lesions. That's what truly matters.
Hang on a minute , you a user on this thread are making implications that it may not be possible to achieve complete regeneration of skin , yet we have some of the smartest scientist in the world saying it is , and the question being time , it's the question of when , not if and when is coming sooner than you think.
He's kinda right numbers-wise. Perfection means 100%, and nothing gets treated to 100% usually, you always have, even if it's incredibly small, some remain of a previous wound/lesion or sthg. Even if we get to 99.9%, it's not perfect: you'll need a microscope, but it won't be perfect.
5 minutes ago, voulzeyes said:He's kinda right numbers-wise. Perfection means 100%, and nothing gets treated to 100% usually, you always have, even if it's incredibly small, some remain of a previous wound/lesion or sthg. Even if we get to 99.9%, it's not perfect: you'll need a microscope, but it won't be perfect.
Regeneration = regenerated hair follicles , sweat glands , oil glands , skin texture etc .... this is what would be considered complete regeneration ..... what you are talking about isn't regeneration
4 minutes ago, Scarcure said:Regeneration = regenerated hair follicles , sweat glands , oil glands , skin texture etc .... this is what would be considered complete regeneration ..... what you are talking about isn't regeneration
why wouldn't it be? Did I even mention something different from regeneration? Reg doesn't equal 100% disparition of any previous lesion.
If perfect scarless healing happens, it's not gonna happen before decades imo. We don't need perfection, we need techniques which will make all these skin problems to be so diminished that they will be undetectable for a normal human eye (so yeah, close to 100%, but not quite).
The difference between close-perfection to perfection is enormous, the higher you get, the harder it is to get there.
10 hours ago, voulzeyes said:why wouldn't it be? Did I even mention something different from regeneration? Reg doesn't equal 100% disparition of any previous lesion.
Because the idea of prefect would imply something that is restored to it's original state before the acne , scarring is essentially fibrosis tissue that has replaced normal functioning skin , so this whole 90% argument goes against what this thread is about , shouldn't improvement discussions be on a different thread ?.
Scarcure, I'm new to the forum, but seems to me like you're so insecure, desperate or obsessed about your scars that you came to a point where you won't take anything but absolute disparition. You'd really have to have insanely big scars for 90% not to be enough AS a starting point man.
Chill man, what you're asking for may not happen before deaces. The treatments that are coming are going to be super good already, be happy for that, we're going to have great options in a couple years with stuff like elastagen. If you're chasing perfection and only perfection in general (and that's not just about scars) you're going to be really sad in your life, trust me.
6 hours ago, Williamtill said:Scarcure, I'm new to the forum, but seems to me like you're so insecure, desperate or obsessed about your scars that you came to a point where you won't take anything but absolute disparition. You'd really have to have insanely big scars for 90% not to be enough AS a starting point man.
Chill man, what you're asking for may not happen before deaces. The treatments that are coming are going to be super good already, be happy for that, we're going to have great options in a couple years with stuff like elastagen. If you're chasing perfection and only perfection in general (and that's not just about scars) you're going to be really sad in your life, trust me.
Yeah i am desperate , insecure and depressed about the facial scarring on my face , as most on this forum are , And scarless healing isn't just for acne scarring , it's for people that have suffered severe burns that destroyed their lives ..... Also i would like to know where this decades until scarless healing has come from ?.
You seem like a reasonable man/woman , this isn't just on an looks level , my face feels dry because the scarring that was caused by not only acne , but laser done by an incompetent woman that had no business performing laser surgery , i have had scars since 18 years old , i tried to end my life because of them , i am 31 in under 2 weeks , so yes you are right i am desperate mate.
Looks like there is a reddit discussion going on about elastagen right now:
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One of the people who responded linked the patent for the technology:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20190062405A1/en
It's a long read with a bunch of repetitive science jargon. But it sort of explains how the tropoelastin helps wound healing and there's some early study results in pig models in there. Kinda interesting if anyone want more information on the product.
