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26 minutes ago, MyBeautifulScars said:I have read those papers in the past so you brought nothing new to the topic of scarless healing. Small wounds less than 2 mm do not scar anyways. Do you have a scar after getting blood taken with a needle? No.
I have deliberately brought nothing new to the conversation. You asked for some of my sources which show scar free healing and therefore end the argument that scar free healing is a problem of the future...
51 minutes ago, seabs135 said:I have deliberately brought nothing new to the conversation. You asked for some of my sources which show scar free healing and therefore end the argument that scar free healing is a problem of the future...
I am perplexed by your comment.I always said that scarless healing is possible however FS2 and OLX101 seem to be way ahead of all the other things that claim to be scarless currently.
Sunogel has been around for some time, there is no progress and maybe it's time we moved on. That's all I am saying. There has been many other things in the past that claimed to be scarless that failed and fooled us all. Then you claim these scientists have a burden but like I said they are accountable for what they say. Polarity is an example of a probable failure to come and the scientists behind it risk losing a lot more. So why lie?
You showed me papers of scarless healing but two involve Sunogel. They are not impartial. There are no other papers that back up your claim that scarless healing is possible way back from 1996. You corrected yourself and then said 1997. All I saw from Sunogel was a pic of a finger cut that healed which was under a cm. It healed without a scar after applying Sunogel.As I mentioned before, 2 mm wounds heal without scarring. What are we suppose to conclude from that?
The idea behind all this is that we don't know what FS2 will bring to the table. Let's wait for the results of the clinical trials before we start claiming that they are not scarless. They have taken a different approach from anyone else. They seem legit.
Scarless healing changes depending on perception as you mentioned before. Scarless healing and scar free healing are similar but mean different things. So if FS2 can attain 90% improvement and the scar is invisible to the human eye, why would that be an issue? After all, waiting for Sunogel for the last 2 years to start clinical trials has not brought us any closer to eliminating our scars.
Exactly. I cant see anyone turning up their nose even at 60% improvement because its better than what is now. Walk before running, we are not going to go from scar to regeneration over night...might be 20 years....god I hope not! I think Sunogel will be better than FS2. He claims scarless atleast. But as said, were looking at 2022 maybe?
3 hours ago, MyBeautifulScars said:I am perplexed by your comment.I always said that scarless healing is possible however FS2 and OLX101 seem to be way ahead of all the other things that claim to be scarless currently.
Sunogel has been around for some time, there is no progress and maybe it's time we moved on. That's all I am saying. There has been many other things in the past that claimed to be scarless that failed and fooled us all. Then you claim these scientists have a burden but like I said they are accountable for what they say. Polarity is an example of a probable failure to come and the scientists behind it risk losing a lot more. So why lie?
You showed me papers of scarless healing but two involve Sunogel. They are not impartial. There are no other papers that back up your claim that scarless healing is possible way back from 1996. You corrected yourself and then said 1997. All I saw from Sunogel was a pic of a finger cut that healed which was under a cm. It healed without a scar after applying Sunogel.As I mentioned before, 2 mm wounds heal without scarring. What are we suppose to conclude from that?
The idea behind all this is that we don't know what FS2 will bring to the table. Let's wait for the results of the clinical trials before we start claiming that they are not scarless. They have taken a different approach from anyone else. They seem legit.
Scarless healing changes depending on perception as you mentioned before. Scarless healing and scar free healing are similar but mean different things. So if FS2 can attain 90% improvement and the scar is invisible to the human eye, why would that be an issue? After all, waiting for Sunogel for the last 2 years to start clinical trials has not brought us any closer to eliminating our scars.
Scar free healing, or complete regeneration is the return of perfect tissue. I and others are only interested in scar free healing. The problem with percentage improvements is that 90% to you could be 10% to someone else and you cannot accurately measure what x% is. You also have the fact that peoples perceptions will change day by day. Example on one day someone may think the scar improvement is 10% then on day three they may think it is 70%, then on day 5 think it is 20%.
Sunogel has claimed complete regeneration in a paper... Moving on from Sunogel, as you want people to do, would be akin to creating or conditioning mass amnesia with regards to historical documents which show scar free healing... I also referenced you to sunogel papers that claimed complete regeneration. These papers are signed off, they are probative. The people who signed them off have burdened themselves. With regards to 2mm small wounds. Small wounds heal without scarring, I referenced you to the paper that scientifically proved it in 1997. You can conclude from that, that you can remove tissue, and the replacement tissue will not be scar. You can conclude from these references, scar free healing has been achieved.
We do know what FS2 brings to the table. We can deduce, FS2 will 'not' bring scar free healing to the table, it will bring percentage improvements. FS2 has never claimed to have brought scar free healing. They have not brought any paper out that shows they have brought scar free healing in anyway. The papers, the probative documents, do not show they have completely removed scarring... It is reasonable to state that it is a percentage improvement product.
4 hours ago, nikki_gargin said:The fact a wound 2mm heals without scar backs up what I said before. Its obviously small enough to recruit naibour healthy cells quickly. The hair bulb is important and Im not disputing what anyone is saying on this. All Im saying is we know X equals Y (hair bulb equals skin) but our bodies work by stimulus mechanisms and we dont know if FS2 equals Y yet. They havent said regeneration just stops scarring. So we still have no idea what that looks like.
Mate seriously there is a pic if you type in google birchbiomed fs2 of what it does on animal model...
Nikki, thank you for your comment. I do understand and have googled these things. (especially the model on the rabbit ear), but my concern lies that they did not put the cream on the rabbit ear until 3 days after injury....The picture of the ear and paper they wrote about it is impressive, but they stated in thepaper that it is only 80% improvement. For my particular goals with scarless healing is that I would like it to blend in with all of my surrounding skin. It doesn't need to have hair follicles, I just need it to be completely flat. So the fact that FS2 has an 80 percent improvement on a rabbit ear is great, but they also didn't apply the cream until 3 days after the wound. That means that FS2 could block all scarring, but I will not know until I see it in May with their results of their study.
33 minutes ago, seabs135 said:Scar free healing, or complete regeneration is the return of perfect tissue and is disruptive to percentage improvement, or scar improvement healing. I and others are only interested in scar free healing. The problem with percentage improvements is that 99% to you could be 10% to someone else and you cannot accurately measure what x% is.
Sunogel has claimed scar free heling in a paper... Moving on from Sunogel, as you want people to do, would be akin to creating or conditioning mass amnesia with regards to historical documents which show scar free healing.
I also referenced you to sunogel papers that claimed complete regeneration. These papers are signed off, they are probative. The people who signed them off have burdened themselves. With regards to 2mm small wounds. Small wounds heal without scarring, I referenced you to the paper that scientifically proved it in 1997. You can conclude from that, that you can remove tissue, and the replacement tissue will not be scar. You can conclude from these references, scar free healing is a fact, it has been done.
We do know what FS2 brings to the table. We can deduce, FS2 will 'not' bring scar free healing to the table, it will bring percentage improvements or scar improvement. FS2 has never claimed to have brought scar free healing. They have not brought any paper out that shows they have brought scar free healing in anyway. The papers, the probative documents, do not show they have completely removed scarring... We can see It is a percentage improvement product.
It seems we are on the same page however you are expecting something that will not happen anytime soon. Sunogel will take a long time before it launches, for now we got FS2, might be here in 5 years tops. I'll take the improvement for now and I believe most of us would then wait on Dr. Sun and his miracle product which may never launch. Hopefully, FS2 and OLX101 do not fail also.
17 minutes ago, MyBeautifulScars said:It seems we are on the same page however you are expecting something that will not happen anytime soon. Sunogel will take a long time before it launches, for now we got FS2, might be here in 5 years tops. I'll take the improvement for now and I believe most of us would then wait on Dr. Sun and his miracle product which may never launch.
We are partially on the same page. But Sunogel is a device. I once read medical devices take weeks to 4 years to come to market. Weeks for a class 1 device and 3 to 4 years for a class 3 device. It is a device that could also use a digestable material as a predicate, which would make an even faster track to market... There are plenty of digestable materials to predicate it with too. A predicate would mean the device would be classed as a class 2 device too. To boot it has also done it's animal testing. However for what ever reason, maybe they are walking on egg shells to not offend others, they have pencilled in the approved for market stage as 2021. FS2, as a percentage improvement product, I have no interest in it. However, you are clearly looking at many more years to market than a device, being that it is a drug and it has to go through 3 phases of trials.
52 minutes ago, seabs135 said:We are partially on the same page. But Sunogel is a device. I once read medical devices take weeks to 4 years to come to market. Weeks for a class 1 device and 3 to 4 years for a class 3 device. It is a device that could also use a digestable material as a predicate, which would make an even faster track to market... There are plenty of digestable materials to predicate it with too. A predicate would mean the device would be classed as a class 2 device too. To boot it has also done it's animal testing. However for what ever reason, maybe they are walking on egg shells to not offend others, they have pencilled in the approved for market stage as 2021. FS2, as a percentage improvement product, I have no interest in it. However, you are clearly looking at many more years to market than a device, being that it is a drug and it has to go through 3 phases of trials.
I wonder why people don't believe in scar free come to this section ? at least, if you didn't believe it's your business but don't discourage those who believe it especially with the current scientific evidence. 50 years ago who would have thought that people would have the possibility to call with a wireless cell phone... things happen sooner than we think.just because the media doesn't report it doesn't mean there's no good progress in scar free.
correct scarfree healing is necessary ..
scar reduction has already done on many mammals even in humans remember Insulin - Claire linge
even true scarfree healing has achieved in many mammals but is there anything that has achieved true complete scarfree healing in humans and its still hanging in trials or ignored ?
3 hours ago, slave of jesus said:I wonder why people don't believe in scar free come to this section ? at least, if you didn't believe it's your business but don't discourage those who believe it especially with the current scientific evidence. 50 years ago who would have thought that people would have the possibility to call with a wireless cell phone... things happen sooner than we think.just because the media doesn't report it doesn't mean there's no good progress in scar free.
It is strange. It is like they are either wanting reassurance (which imo is probable), or, they, nefariously, are interested in diverting information in a certain way to suit a long term bias... I know if I did not believe the facts I have seen about scar free healing being a fact, I would not come on this board determined to explain to the many, 'it is x years away' every day - it would be like watching paint dry, imo. Repeatedly telling people it is not coming would be like watching paint dry, it would drive me mad...
7 hours ago, seabs135 said:It is strange. It is like they are either wanting reassurance (which imo is probable), or, they, nefariously, are interested in diverting information in a certain way to suit a long term bias... I know if I did not believe the facts I have seen about scar free healing being a fact, I would not come on this board determined to explain to the many, 'it is x years away' every day - it would be like watching paint dry, imo. Repeatedly telling people it is not coming would be like watching paint dry, it would drive me mad...
People need to be realistic and not believe everything they hear. Nobody said that scars won't be dealt with in a few years time but for now, nothing exists that makes them completely go away. That is a fact.
Unfortunately, you are the one coming here claiming that a certain product acheives scarless healing. You are the one claiming that Dr. Sun is not moving thingsforward. So how is that re-assuring?
If you believeSunogel truly works, then that is your business. You don't have to force everyone to believe it truly does. It seems you are doing the same of what you accuse others of.
Scarless healing has been attained probably numerous times but they probably won't release a drug or product at this time as lasers are dominating the market. Dermatologists will lose a lot.You said that yourself. On the contrary, plastic surgeons will be ecstatic. Also, the definition of scarless healing changes on perception which is something you state numerous times.
Your arguments don't holdand you need to stop dissemanating false information about other posters. At the end, everyone just wants the scars to go away. Any method is good but when you have others moving ahead doing clinical trials and others making bold claims doing nothing for the last 2years, it's a little strange.
Don't forget, manyhave made false statements and failed miserably. FS2 and OLX101 may fail also which I believe are scar free which is what they claim. Nobody said that everything is set in stone. However, it is reassuring that some scientists are moving forward.
People were once raving about Polarity. Almost all are gone, never to be seen again.
5 hours ago, MyBeautifulScars said:People need to be realistic and not believe everything they hear. Nobody said that scars won't be dealt with in a few years time but for now, nothing exists that makes them completely go away. That is a fact.
Unfortunately, you are the one coming here claiming that a certain product acheives scarless healing. You are the one claiming that Dr. Sun is not moving thingsforward. So how is that re-assuring?
If you believeSunogel truly works, then that is your business. You don't have to force everyone to believe it truly does. It seems you are doing the same of what you accuse others of.
Scarless healing has been attained probably numerous times but they probably won't release a drug or product at this time as lasers are dominating the market. Dermatologists will lose a lot.You said that yourself. On the contrary, plastic surgeons will be ecstatic. Also, the definition of scarless healing changes on perception which is something you state numerous times.
Your arguments don't holdand you need to stop dissemanating false information about other posters. At the end, everyone just wants the scars to go away. Any method is good but when you have others moving ahead doing clinical trials and others making bold claims doing nothing for the last 2years, it's a little strange.
Don't forget, manyhave made false statements and failed miserably. FS2 and OLX101 may fail also which I believe are scar free which is what they claim. Nobody said that everything is set in stone. However, it is reassuring that some scientists are moving forward.
People were once raving about Polarity. Almost all are gone, never to be seen again.
I have not made any false statements anywhere.
My position is very simple and straight forward. Lets number my statements: and take a quick look:
1. 'Dr Sun, and John Hopkins have brought out papers that showed scar free healing.' He is a scientist with a burden. In no where have I twisted that information... 2. 'Scar free healing was proven in 1997, when it was shown small wounds do not scar, therefore it is not a future problem we can all day dream about.' In no where have a twisted that information. 3. 'FS2 is a percentage improvement/scar improvement drug. It does not bring scar free healing. No scientific paper has claimed complete regeneration. And as it is a drug it will have go through 3 phases of trials.' In no way have I twisted information anywhere.
You keep promoting this as if scar free healing is x years away. IMO, this shows you either want reassurance, or you persistently want to divert information long term for some bias. I know if I thought scar free healing was a future problem I would not be posting on this board every day telling people it is a future problem - I'd just be getting on with my life... Think about this last paragraph for one second.
2 hours ago, seabs135 said:I have not made any false statements anywhere.
My position is very simple and straight forward. Lets number my statements: and take a quick look:
1. 'Dr Sun, and John Hopkins have brought out papers that showed scar free healing.' He is a scientist with a burden. In no where have I twisted that information... 2. 'Scar free healing was proven in 1997, therefore it is not a future problem we can all day dream about.' In no where have a twisted that information. 3. 'FS2 is a percentage improvement/scar improvement drug. It does not bring scar free healing. No scientific paper has claimed complete regeneration. And as it is a drug it will have go through 3 phases of trials.' In no way have I twisted information anywhere.
You keep promoting this as if scar free healing is x years away. IMO, this shows you either want reassurance, or you persistently want to divert information long term for some bias. I know if I thought scar free healing was a future problem I would not be posting on this board every day telling people it is a future problem - I'd just be getting on with my life... Think about this last paragraph for one second.
What bias I'm a trying to promote and what re-assurance am I looking for? I don't understand. I'm criticizing Sunogel and Dr. Sun's procastanation. His inability to move things forward make me question many things.
If you are a poster boy of this product and you firmly believe it truly works, then that is your belief and you cannot change mine.
Needless to say, my opinions about something do not necessarily have to be accepted by everyone. However, it seems you want to impose your beliefs on others. Are you looking for re-assurance?
Anyways Elastagen seems to have developed something for acne scars and stretchmarks.
They were bought out by Allergan, the makers of Botox. Based on Elastagen's findings they also developed an injectable hydrogel which improves acne scarring in 21 out of 28 patients. See below:
1 hour ago, MyBeautifulScars said:What bias I'm a trying to promote and what re-assurance am I looking for? I don't understand. I'm criticizing Sunogel and Dr. Sun's procastanation. His inability to move things forward make me question many things.
If you are a poster boy of this product and you firmly believe it truly works, then that is your belief and you cannot change mine.
Needless to say, my opinions about something do not necessarily have to be accepted by everyone. However, it seems you want to impose your beliefs on others. Are you looking for re-assurance?
The ability to move things along is clearly not in Dr Suns control. Dr Sun has shown science that brings complete regeneration in the past with a paper... He has given himself a burden.
You are constantly promoting that scar free healing is a 'future problem' on an internet message board about 'scar free healing...' You are constantly trying to give an impression that this is hopeless. I know one thing here, if I thought this was 'hopeless', or this was a 'future problem,' I'd certainly not be wasting my time on the message board trying to get people to believe this is a 'future problem.' Personally, I'd rather watch paint dry. I'd move on for the next 10years...
1 hour ago, seabs135 said:The ability to move things along is clearly not in Dr Suns control. Dr Sun has shown science that brings complete regeneration in the past with a paper... He has given himself a burden.
You are constantly promoting that scar free healing is a 'future problem' on an internet message board about 'scar free healing...' You are constantly trying to give an impression that this is hopeless. I know one thing here, if I thought this was 'hopeless', or this was a 'future problem,' I'd certainly not be wasting my time on the message board trying to get people to believe this is a 'future problem.' Personally, I'd rather watch paint dry. I'd move on for the next 10years...
Nope, I never said it is a problem of the future. I just said we have to be realistic for now. FS2 promotes scar free healing according to its makers for new wounds and improvement of existing scars. It is in clinical trials unlike Sunogel. People behind FS2 might release a product in 2019, that's next year. You can see the second Youtube video posted this month where the company's representative suggests that. Sunogel is still searching for a partner.
We don't know what FS2can actuallydo just like we don't know what Sunogel will do. The hydrogel has yet to be tested on biggerwoundsso your affirmations of it being 100% scarless healing are pretentious. Two papers and apic of a small finger cutare not enough to state that it truly works.Sunogel doesn't work on existing scars at all. FS2 at least improves them. It prevents scars in new wounds, so it belongs on this forum just like all the other alternatives who claim to be as such.
Claiming Dr. Sun has a " burden", so this is the only reason why his hydrogel should work is completely outrageous.You cannot expect people to believe you when you makesuch statements. So just because a scientist has a burden when they say somethingwe should all conclude that their discovery is bulletproof. You don't make sense.
I'm a scientistmyselfand mistakes are part of life. How many times do recalls happen? How many scientists have done wrong and riskedit all. Again, I'll give you Polarity as an example. But again this goes back to what you said before. Not all scientists are impartial and jump on the cash when they see an opportunity. We are all humans after all and rotten apples are everywhere.
To achieve scar free healing with Sunogel you must excise the scar before applying it. Plastic surgeons are moving away from this practise and doctors rarely excise undiseasedskin nowadays for risk of infection.
Polarityused a similar approach. They were removing existing scars on patients while in clinical trials and applying SkinTE on top. The results that came out months later are not scarless. They always claimed they can regenerate skin with full appendages. Where are they now? Nobody talks about them anymoreand everyone who did is either gone or completely avoids the subject when they are questioned about it. You mentioned also Polarity had a burden. Well, they completely missed their chance or they just tried to scam people. I think the later is more plausible.
You must be involved with Sunogel because it seems I hit a sensitive spot everytime I mention it or try to criticize it. That's how I see things. I however am not involved with FS2. I'm impartial and realistic. Wether it works or not, I cannot say but Sunogel will definately get you a big fat 0% improvement on your current scar thats been around since you were a kid. Now,let that sink in for a moment.
Stop discrediting anything else that's not Sunogel. Also, you seem to have a big bias towards anything else that's not.
I also believe that everyone's interpretation of scarless healing is different which is also something you also agreed upon. So, anything that promotes scarless healing or improves the appearance of scars to make them invisible deserves to be discussed here.
And to end this pointless conversation, I hope you find what you are looking for one day. At the end, we all have been scarred to some degree to be here looking for alternatives.
3 hours ago, seabs135 said:The ability to move things along is clearly not in Dr Suns control. Dr Sun has shown science that brings complete regeneration in the past with a paper... He has given himself a burden.
You are constantly promoting that scar free healing is a 'future problem' on an internet message board about 'scar free healing...' You are constantly trying to give an impression that this is hopeless. I know one thing here, if I thought this was 'hopeless', or this was a 'future problem,' I'd certainly not be wasting my time on the message board trying to get people to believe this is a 'future problem.' Personally, I'd rather watch paint dry. I'd move on for the next 10years...
at the limit those who believe that scar free is in the distant future, that they come back here in 10 years, instead of hurting themselves for nothing to them and to others who have hope. they will be surprised that it could come much rather than expected
3 hours ago, MyBeautifulScars said:Nope, I never said it is a problem of the future. I just said we have to be realistic for now. FS2 promotes scar free healing according to its makers for new wounds and improvement of existing scars. It is in clinical trials unlike Sunogel. People behind FS2 might release a product in 2019, that's next year. You can see the second Youtube video posted this month where the company's representative suggests that. Sunogel is still searching for a partner.
We don't know what FS2can actuallydo just like we don't know what Sunogel will do. The hydrogel has yet to be tested on biggerwoundsso your affirmations of it being 100% scarless healing are pretentious. Two papers and apic of a small finger cutare not enough to state that it truly works.Sunogel doesn't work on existing scars at all. FS2 at least improves them. It prevents scars in new wounds, so it belongs on this forum just like all the other alternatives who claim to be as such.
Claiming Dr. Sun has a " burden", so this is the only reason why his hydrogel should work is completely outrageous.You cannot expect people to believe you when you makesuch statements. So just because a scientist has a burden when they say somethingwe should all conclude that their discovery is bulletproof. You don't make sense.
I'm a scientistmyselfand mistakes are part of life. How many times do recalls happen? How many scientists have done wrong and riskedit all. Again, I'll give you Polarity as an example. But again this goes back to what you said before. Not all scientists are impartial and jump on the cash when they see an opportunity. We are all humans after all and rotten apples are everywhere.
To achieve scar free healing with Sunogel you must excise the scar before applying it. Plastic surgeons are moving away from this practise and doctors rarely excise undiseasedskin nowadays for risk of infection.
Polarityused a similar approach. They were removing existing scars on patients while in clinical trials and applying SkinTE on top. The results that came out months later are not scarless. They always claimed they can regenerate skin with full appendages. Where are they now? Nobody talks about them anymoreand everyone who did is either gone or completely avoids the subject when they are questioned about it. You mentioned also Polarity had a burden. Well, they completely missed their chance or they just tried to scam people. I think the later is more plausible.
You must be involved with Sunogel because it seems I hit a sensitive spot everytime I mention it or try to criticize it. That's how I see things. I however am not involved with FS2. I'm impartial and realistic. Wether it works or not, I cannot say but Sunogel will definately get you a big fat 0% improvement on your current scar thats been around since you were a kid. Now,let that sink in for a moment.
Stop discrediting anything else that's not Sunogel. Also, you seem to have a big bias towards anything else that's not.
I also believe that everyone's interpretation of scarless healing is different which is also something you also agreed upon. So, anything that promotes scarless healing or improves the appearance of scars to make them invisible deserves to be discussed here.
And to end this pointless conversation, I hope you find what you are looking for one day. At the end, we all have been scarred to some degree to be here looking for alternatives.
FS2 does not bring scar free healing. There is no scientific document that show it brings scar free healing... No matter how many times you say it might, it really doesn't bring scar free healing in its papers. It has set its own standard. Without being rude to you, this argument with regards to FS2, is silly. I have not discredited FS2, I have, if you like, described what is written on the tin. Believe you and me, if the science stated 'complete regeneration,' or 'scarless healing,' or 'scar free healing,' I'd be stating this scientific paper claimed 'scar free healing.'
Sunogel claimed in a scientific paper,' it got 'complete regeneration.' Therefor it has set its own standard of scar free healing. Without being rude to you again, this argument is also silly.
Sunogel is a 'device.' Not a drug. Devices take months to get approved. Drugs, on the other hand take roughly 12 year for approval.
I'm not involved with anyone. I will proportionally criticise Sunogel, like anything else, if it fails with its scar free healing 'burden' it has given itself. In the mean time I will be referencing its burden.
The interpretation for 'scar free healing,' or 'complete regeneration' is, 'perfect tissue;' not 'nearly scar free healing,' but unambiguous complete tissue.
2 hours ago, seabs135 said:FS2 does not bring scar free healing. There is no scientific document that show it brings scar free healing... No matter how many times you say it might, it really doesn't bring scar free healing in its papers. It has set its own standard. Without being rude to you, this argument with regards to FS2, is silly. I have not discredited FS2, I have, if you like, described what is written on the tin. Believe you and me, if the science stated 'complete regeneration,' or 'scarless healing,' or 'scar free healing,' I'd be stating this scientific paper claimed 'scar free healing.'
Sunogel claimed in a scientific paper,' it got 'complete regeneration.' Therefor it has set its own standard of scar free healing. Without being rude to you again, this argument is also silly.
Sunogel is a 'device.' Not a drug. Devices take months to get approved. Drugs, on the other hand take roughly 12 year for approval.
I'm not involved with anyone. I will proportionally criticise Sunogel, like anything else, if it fails with its scar free healing 'burden' it has given itself. In the mean time I will be referencing its burden.
The interpretation for 'scar free healing,' or 'complete regeneration' is, 'perfect tissue;' not 'nearly scar free healing,' but unambiguous complete tissue.
Ok,let's see before we jump to conclusions then. We simply don't know what these drugs or devices can or cannot do. Only clinical trials can tell us that.
To the people saying that devices are approved quickly -- that's not always true. Medical devices encompass everything from bandages to IV tubes to implants. A bandage can be approved very quickly. Something like Sunogel will no doubt take several years of testing as it is very invasive, although it would no doubt be faster than a medicine.
I just wish that we were allowed to try out experimental medical treatments. We don't even have free healthcare from the government in America, so why do they have a right to tell us what we can and can't do. I mean think of all the animals that are killed every year in experimental testing. Why is it ok to kill a non consenting animal but its unethical to test on a consenting human? I think that scarless healing exists and can be reproducible in humans, however our slow medical process will take at least a decade. I saw a recent article about electric bandages that sped up wound healing four times as fast in rats and the pictures were very impressive, close to perfect regeneration I would say, but the creators of the study admitted that it wouldn't be worth it for them to pursue testing in humans and to try to get it FDA approved because of how long of a process it is.
Hi guys!
Ive been following this thread for some time and i have a question for you guys. How long until therewill be a product that can completly regenerate skin ? Will it happen within next 10 years?
Im asking couse I have giant scar on my back from surgery and laser didnt do shit even though i had 4 treatments with it
12 hours ago, AlexaderZ77 said:Hi guys!
Ive been following this thread for some time and i have a question for you guys. How long until therewill be a product that can completly regenerate skin ? Will it happen within next 10 years?
Im asking couse I have giant scar on my back from surgery and laser didnt do shit even though i had 4 treatments with it
I don't want to letyou and others down, I don't see this happening anytime soon.However, you got two products currently in clinical trials that might help, FS2 and OLX101. They don'tdo scarless healing but they improve existing scars according to the developers.We need to wait until next year for the outcomeof the trials. FS2 claims scar free healing in fresh wounds, not the same as scarless healing. OLX101 is focused on raised scars or what we call hypertrophic scars as well as thick out of control scars known as keloids. FS2 also seems to be targeting these type of scars too.
Also, Polarity or their product SkinTE is also in clinical trials currently. They were promoting complete skin regeneration back in 2016 with full appendages, this however has yet to be proven and they have fallen out of favor. They are continuing to promote scarless healing as per their website but most of us are starting to realize it might not be the case. They have published results on their website. You can judge them on your our own. I don't want to create an unnecessary debate about Polarity here.They were recently adopted by a hospital in Cleveland as a standard treatment for chronic wounds.
Sunogel or its maker, Dr. Sun, claim they have found a way to promote scarless healing with application of a hydrogel on fresh wounds. They have yet to do clinical trials and they are looking for funding.
In early Jan.2017, a paper came out from researchers at UCI claiming to have figured out a way to change scar tissue into normal looking tissue, doesn't necessarily mean scarless just scar free I guess.They have yet to launch a product or do any clinical trials. However, they were awarded recently 3.3 million US dollars over 5 years to expandtheirresearch.
You have Gemstone that has developed scaffolds of skin engineered in a labfrom your ownskin cells that can be applied on fresh wounds thus reducing scarring. They might be using the technology in hospitals currently but they have yet to announce any clinical trials of any sorts.
Continuing on, reserchers in China developed a hydrogel which promotes pore regeneration in fresh wounds, thus eliminating scarring. You can read the contenthere:
http://english.cas.cn/newsroom/research_news/201809/t20180907_197144.shtml
It seems many others are developing hydrogels which promote scarless healing so the more Sunogel waits to launch, the more competition they might have in the next years to follow.
Furthermore,a company known as Elastagen recently bought by Allergan, the makers of Botox, have developed a material known as tropoelastin which also improves scarring or so they claimed. We haven't heard much from them ever since they were bought out except that their parent company has now developed an injectable filler which improves acne scars, scars in general and stretch marks. Their researchwas published back in Sep. of this year. They are conducting clinical trials but they haven't announced it publically is my guess.
The future looks bright and all these devices, mechanisms and drugs in development need to go through years of extensive testing before approval to test their safety and effectiveness. Given that there is still limited data or early stage clinical trials,I cannot giveyouan answer of when a product will come out to improve or eliminatescars in the near future.
Current methods offer minimal tono improvement. Some dermatologists or plastic surgeons can do wonders however. You have to do your own research to find good professionals specializing in scar revision.
13 hours ago, AlexaderZ77 said:Hi guys!
Ive been following this thread for some time and i have a question for you guys. How long until therewill be a product that can completly regenerate skin ? Will it happen within next 10 years?
Im asking couse I have giant scar on my back from surgery and laser didnt do shit even though i had 4 treatments with it
This thread is really the wrong place to ask this question at the minute and it has been for a long time... If you look at the thread carefully the thread has two or more topics going simultaneously... One topic is scar free healing and the other topic is 'percentage improvements/' or future percentage improvements. So if you look at the thread, one topic is the discussion of scar free healing/complete regeneration/scarless healing, (all used interchangeably) hence perfect regeneration; and the other topic is future scar improvement products or percentage improvements, which has nothing to do with cited scar free healing. IMO things ;like percentage improvement products should really have their own topic. The topic scar free healing cannot be accurately discussed whilst people keep talking about percentage improvement products. It is that simple.
To look at the topic of scar free healing you have to look at things historically and cite progression without distraction... An example of information for you to cite would be: in 2011 scar free healing was highlighted with a hydrogel from John Hopkins university. Or you could talk about the fact that small wounds do not scar. Or you could discus Sunogel, which has brought forward a paper about complete regeneration in 2016. Sunogel is a class 2 device, a biodegradable material, not a drug and therefore has a very agile route to market. https://www.sunogel.com/pipeline/
Unfortunately when you talk about scar free healing on this thread it tends to be drowned out by diversions. You tend to be given information about percentage improvement products, or diversions about 'the future.' This maybe because people are looking for reassurance... However sadly, these discussions tend to knock the topic off-topic.
1 hour ago, seabs135 said:This thread is really the wrong place to ask this question at the minute and it has been for a long time... If you look at the thread carefully the thread has two or more topics going simultaneously... One topic is scar free healing and the other topic is 'percentage improvements/' or future percentage improvements. So if you look at the thread, one topic is the discussion of scar free healing/complete regeneration/scarless healing, (all used interchangeably) hence perfect regeneration; and the other topic is future scar improvement products or percentage improvements, which has nothing to do with cited scar free healing. IMO things ;like percentage improvement products should really have their own topic. The topic scar free healing cannot be accurately discussed whilst people keep talking about percentage improvement products. It is that simple.
To look at the topic of scar free healing you have to look at things historically and cite progression without distraction... An example of information for you to cite would be: in 2011 scar free healing was highlighted with a hydrogel from John Hopkins university. Or you could talk about the fact that small wounds do not scar. Or you could discus Sunogel, which has brought forward a paper about complete regeneration in 2016. Sunogel is a class 2 device, a biodegradable material, not a drug and therefore has a very agile route to market. https://www.sunogel.com/pipeline/
Unfortunately when you talk about scar free healing on this thread it tends to be drowned out by diversions. You tend to be given information about percentage improvement products, or diversions about 'the future.' This maybe because people are looking for reassurance... However sadly, these discussions tend to knock the topic off-topic.
Nobody is looking for re-assurance. I've have mentioned thisbefore,you cannot say anything about Sunogel until clinical trials are underway and we truly see its potential. Stop re-igniting an old debate which you clearly lost.
It seems the only person looking for re-assurance isonly you unfortunately. You aretrying to promote a product which states scarless healing in theory only but has yet to be tested or proven. Stop assuming or claiming false information without facts. A few published papers by its maker, Dr. Sun, and a pic of a finger cut that is less than a cm are not enough to prove the effectiveness of the product itself without real results. Facts, I have mentioned more than once by the way.
You are no better than all the other posters who were once talking about Polarity, Recell, etc. and how revolutionary they were. Stop giving out false hopes. If you feel like discrediting other posters by claiming they are looking for re-assurance, I've got news for you, you make yourself look bad. Also, claiming that the product should work because the scientist behind it has a burden does not hold.
I do not wish to argue with you any further regarding this topic. You can assume many things but at the end, we both just want our acne scars to be eliminated. Unfortunately, you want back the baby skin you were born with and that you will never achieve even with scarless healing.
Also, Sunogel does nothing on existing scars, only fresh wounds. You failed to provide me with an answer here. This is the second time around I have mentioned this. With Sunogel, you have to excise scar tissue and many medical professionals are moving away from the practise.
1 hour ago, Anish004 said:Mybeautifulscars
not against u but for scar reduction why u r waiting ? there are already many things out which reduces scar in fresh wounds eg - Scar gels , EGF etc
Unfortunately, current methods provide little to no improvement on existing scars. Fresh wounds can be treated and reduce scarring unfortunately my acne scars are too old. Dishing out money to make things worse with no guarantees of improvement is not enough for me to go for all these laser resurfacing techniques and the likes.The question I would ask would be the same foryou. You claim to have many acne scars and dilated pores, so why don't you try to get improvements with current methods?
4 minutes ago, MyBeautifulScars said:Unfortunately, current methods provide little to no improvement on existing scars. Fresh wounds can be treated and reduce scarring unfortunately my acne scars are too old. Dishing out money to make things worse with no guarantees of improvement is not enough for me to go for all these laser resurfacing techniques and the likes.The question I would ask would be the same foryou. You claim to have many acne scars and dilated pores, so why don't you try to get improvements with current methods?
no money to waste on percentage improvements