Acne.org Products
3 hours ago, MyBeautifulScars said:Dr. Sun's major obstacle is finding a reputable pharmaceutical company willing to work with him as a partner. Without this, his product is toast. No company would ever invest without any concrete results until he proves that his product truly works. So let's not start throwing money away on something that we don't even know about.
BirchBiomed started at UBC and they are already testing their product, FS2 on people. They have funding from the university,are approved by both Health Canada and the FDA to conduct trials.
I believe Dr. Sun should have stayed at Gemstone. They had funding from John Hopkins. For this reason, I believe its time to throw the towel on Sunogel. BirchBiomedwill probably launch a product before Sunogel ever does.
Sunogel will however conduct trials as of 2019 according to their website so they might have found a company willing to work with Dr. Sun. Yet again, we only have a pic of a small finger cut that healed nicelyafter applying Sunogel. Small cuts heal with barely any scarringanyways. Dr. Sun never showed us any results for bigger wounds.
I have high hopes for FS2. We also have UCI researchers who have found a way to convert fibroblasts into fat cells to achieve scarless healing. We also have Olx101. Scientists are working hard to find something for scars.
However, weneed to wait probably another few years until a product comes out that truly addresses scarring. Giving away money to Dr. Sun for a unproven anti-scarring treatment will not speed up things.
I agree with you for the most part, but Sunogel does have two-three promising pictures of pig skin which is one of the only equivalents to human skin. I think FS2 will be a huge break through when it comes out in the next year or two years, but I don't think it heals all scarring in new scars (even though it claims to).
2 hours ago, surgical scar said:How do you know?
It claims to prevent all new scarring, Im just saying I havent seen any photos that convince me that it does. That is not to say it wont be an extremely effective product, I just havent seen definitive proof that it prevents ALL new scarring. Only time will tell when the phase 2 results come out in June!
12 hours ago, Lip121212 said:It claims to prevent all new scarring, Im just saying I havent seen any photos that convince me that it does. That is not to say it wont be an extremely effective product, I just havent seen definitive proof that it prevents ALL new scarring. Only time will tell when the phase 2 results come out in June!
They may release photos at some point from the burns trials. We have to bare in mind that burns, deep 2nd and deeper destroys stem cells in the skin and due to size of injury it is very hard for body to recruit naibouring stem cells from undamaged skin. Itsnot applicable really to acne scars or surgery scars. For scarless healing you need the recruitment from naibour healthy cells toinfiltrate the wound bed and fs2 will help this by blocking the scar pathway. Quite amazing really.
FS2 is not scarless healing, scar free healing, complete regeneration or whatever other term you want to use to describe what this board is ostensibly about. Plenty of other boards on this site get into these types of treatments.
I mean no offense to anyone. If youre happy with % improvements then it may just be your ticket. But if you want complete regeneration with appendages it isnt going to be the answer. The researchers have set our expectations and it doesnt include those things.
Not sure why we should throw in the towel on Sunogel. And @MyBeautifulScarsDr. Sun was never with Gemstone. He worked at JHU with Dr. Gerecht and left (his residency was over) for Columbia before the company was even founded.
Ive communicated with Dr. Sun off and on for a year. The most recent update he gave was that theyd gotten some VC money and were working with a pharma company to bring cosmetics to market that would further fund their research. That was a mere few months ago so things have moved forward for him (when I first spoke to him he had nothing).
Again, no disrespect to anyone if FS2 seems like your answer. But its be great if this board could be utilized to discuss scarless healing as intended.
57 minutes ago, golfpanther said:FS2 is not scarless healing, scar free healing, complete regeneration or whatever other term you want to use to describe what this board is ostensibly about. Plenty of other boards on this site get into these types of treatments.
I mean no offense to anyone. If youre happy with % improvements then it may just be your ticket. But if you want complete regeneration with appendages it isnt going to be the answer. The researchers have set our expectations and it doesnt include those things.
Not sure why we should throw in the towel on Sunogel. And @MyBeautifulScarsDr. Sun was never with Gemstone. He worked at JHU with Dr. Gerecht and left (his residency was over) for Columbia before the company was even founded.
Ive communicated with Dr. Sun off and on for a year. The most recent update he gave was that theyd gotten some VC money and were working with a pharma company to bring cosmetics to market that would further fund their research. That was a mere few months ago so things have moved forward for him (when I first spoke to him he had nothing).
Again, no disrespect to anyone if FS2 seems like your answer. But its be great if this board could be utilized to discuss scarless healing as intended.
Complete regeneration won't happen for a while. We are just starting to do face and hand transplants. In a few years leg transplants for sure. There is still no effective cure for AIDS or cancer, just treatments that prevent or slow down the progression.I believe these topics are well ahead for researchers to solve than scarless healing for the moment. We need to be realistic.
FS2 maynot be scarlessbut if it improves scars, it is a start. Nothing out there can claim to do that presentlyand it prevents scarring in new wounds as per its makers, so we can say that they are a scarless healing product for now, for new wounds anyways. They are ahead of anyone else presently along with OLX101. They are doing clinical trials and are careful with their wording. They seem prettylegit unlike Polarity that you were once a supporter of. Whatever happened to them? They seem like another scam if anything to me.
I am aware that Dr. Sun developed a hydrogel while at John Hopkins. It failed at first and he continued. He founded Sunogel, another company with a hydrogel he claims truly works.
Gemstone however hasa lot of researchers from John Hopkins who came together. Manyworked with Dr. Sun before. Gemstone beganafter Dr. Sun left John Hopkins. They have funding and a lot more opportunities to grow. Dr. Sun is looking for a company in order to conduct trials. Do you believe a company would invest in a product that we don't knowtruly works?
It seems that this hydrogel everybody is talkingabout is well behind of the competition for the moment. If Dr. Sun is unable to pitch effectively his product in 2019, I believe it would be time to forget about Sunogel for a while.
FS2 seems to be the closest thing to achieving scarless healing for now. Let's see what this product can do before we jump to conclusions so fast.
I dont know why everyone is hung up on hair and sweat glands for acne scars. Laser hair removal removes hair. Skin stays perfect. Ive got a 15cm by 20cm donor site from a burn that is scarred but contains hair. I think 1 technique is hair transplant to stimulate your skin to regenerate? Shown in science yes. But that stimulates your dna to do that. Fs2 turns on that pathway for you with no stimulus. Thats the only difference. You might not need that hair with fs2...we dont know yet so it could be scarless in new wounds as stated.
3 hours ago, nikki_gargin said:I dont know why everyone is hung up on hair and sweat glands for acne scars. Laser hair removal removes hair. Skin stays perfect. Ive got a 15cm by 20cm donor site from a burn that is scarred but contains hair. I think 1 technique is hair transplant to stimulate your skin to regenerate? Shown in science yes. But that stimulates your dna to do that. Fs2 turns on that pathway for you with no stimulus. Thats the only difference. You might not need that hair with fs2...we dont know yet so it could be scarless in new wounds as stated.
to a scar to look like normal skin hair isnt imp but pores are imp in it as ur full face has pores and if the regenrated area dont have it ..it look like scar still
On 12/21/2018 at 12:07 AM, MyBeautifulScars said:Complete regeneration won't happen for a while. We are just starting to do face and hand transplants. In a few years leg transplants for sure. There is still no effective cure for AIDS or cancer, just treatments that prevent or slow down the progression.I believe these topics are well ahead for researchers to solve than scarless healing for the moment. We need to be realistic.
FS2 maynot be scarlessbut if it improves scars, it is a start. Nothing out there can claim to do that presentlyand it prevents scarring in new wounds as per its makers, so we can say that they are a scarless healing product for now, for new wounds anyways. They are ahead of anyone else presently along with OLX101. They are doing clinical trials and are careful with their wording. They seem prettylegit unlike Polarity that you were once a supporter of. Whatever happened to them? They seem like another scam if anything to me.
I am aware that Dr. Sun developed a hydrogel while at John Hopkins. It failed at first and he continued. He founded Sunogel, another company with a hydrogel he claims truly works.
Gemstone however hasa lot of researchers from John Hopkins who came together. Manyworked with Dr. Sun before. Gemstone beganafter Dr. Sun left John Hopkins. They have funding and a lot more opportunities to grow. Dr. Sun is looking for a company in order to conduct trials. Do you believe a company would invest in a product that we don't knowtruly works?
It seems that this hydrogel everybody is talkingabout is well behind of the competition for the moment. If Dr. Sun is unable to pitch effectively his product in 2019, I believe it would be time to forget about Sunogel for a while.
FS2 seems to be the closest thing to achieving scarless healing for now. Let's see what this product can do before we jump to conclusions so fast.
Complete regeneration occurred in 2011 with a hydrogel... This is a fact... Dr Sun in testing also claimed complete regeneration in 2016 with another tunable hydrogel. He brought forward a paper for his disruption. This is a fact. (These are probative signed off documents...) Dr Sun is also a scientist/engineer with a burden. All scientists/engineers that state something burden themselves. When a scientist claims something, for the sake of progression, you should always keep him to the burden. This is a game of high stakes.
Dr Sun has 'not' been given funding for his disruption. This is a fact. Why? we do not know... You presume and hint that his lack of investment is because his product is poor? As if a lack of investment means therefore highlights the product is a waste of time... You seem keen to influence people to absorb this belief? Whereas I and maybe others are very suspicious that the lack of funding, and the procrastinating, is because it is too disruptive to people who may have invested a lot of opposing money elsewhere.
People have invested money and turf in percentage improvements... The idea of 'complete regeneration' is absolutely disruptive to the idea of 'percentage improvements'... Just like a lorry was absolutely disruptive to the horse and cart... FS2 has never got complete regeneration only percentage improvements... Not one scientific paper claims complete regeneration with regards to FS2. As Golfpanther has stated, I also have no doubt FS2 will have a use somewhere but this promises nothing I want. I have also read someone some one state 40%-90% going on what the human eye can see... This is very soft science and not good enough for me and many people, I bet, who read the scarless healing thread... Regarding myself, the statement 40 to 90% annoys me and insults me. Just to give you the subjectivity concept, If your wife or partner wanted 40% blue paint for your child's wall I bet her shade of 40% would be different to what you would think 40% was with your eye... What is 40% improvement to you may be 90% to someone else's subjectivity. Percentage improvement as an idea, going by the human eye is sloppy.
Then you have the human bias thing with money. Example, what would someone who invested money in a percentage improvement product be incentivised to do? IMO there would be a clear incentivisation for the entity to protect its investment and to centrally control or gate keep what information people get. Without being arsey to you, and I guess you are probably not, but for the sake of asking the question, are you gatekeeping? You see, using probative documents, we can see scar free healing was achieved in 2011 and 2016. (I could show something as far back as 1996 but I'll leave that for now.), You ignore these probative documents and you go on about FS2 as if it is the state of the art and the year is 2004 again... And as if we should all give and absorb that this is a fact... Quite a few times you have also slipped something in and tried to get people to forget about the hydrogel too... (No one in there right mind, who is scarred, would forget about something that has shown complete regeneration in scientific papers) I guess though, this is just harmless message board enthusiasm.
Anyway, so you are suggesting getting all the board forgo looking at something that has shown scar free treatment in the past(ignore the probative documents), loose this pushy supply and demand expectancy we have, that has built up over time; and then look long sighted to the future, for something that brings pointless 'percentage improvements'?
You seem to be suggesting people look at the shiny object of future 'percentage improvement' advancements and pretend scar free healing has never been observed in the past??? And then buy this expensive FS2 injection/cream at a later date with induced amnesia? Are you suggesting people stop looking at historical dates which highlight scar free healing occurred? (scar free healing occurred 2011 and other dates) Are you suggesting we keep pretending the scar war is ongoing in a 'jam tomorrow, never today' fashion and we must keep propagating 'percentage improvements', and more percentage improvements?
21 hours ago, nikki_gargin said:I dont know why everyone is hung up on hair and sweat glands for acne scars. Laser hair removal removes hair. Skin stays perfect. Ive got a 15cm by 20cm donor site from a burn that is scarred but contains hair. I think 1 technique is hair transplant to stimulate your skin to regenerate? Shown in science yes. But that stimulates your dna to do that. Fs2 turns on that pathway for you with no stimulus. Thats the only difference. You might not need that hair with fs2...we dont know yet so it could be scarless in new wounds as stated.
From all the research I've read in regards to wound healing and the prospects of regeneration, hair follicles seem to be hugely important. Specifically, the follicle bulb, which laser hair removal doesn't remove. The research indicates that it serves to recruit stem cells and other cell niches that promote regeneration over scarring. Of course, maybe someone could find a way to get around this, but hair follicles (and sweat glands) seem to provide the needed things for skin to be healthy and scar free.
FS2 may get there, but I'm skeptical because of their wording on their site. One second they say that it prevents scarring (note, this doesn't not mean complete regeneration to me) but then just a few items down they write "Radicallyimproveshealing outcomes for burn survivors." Those two things... don't really sync up for me.
Again, if improvements will make you happy, I think that's great! Go for FS2. It just doesn't seem to be what this board has come to be about.
2 hours ago, seabs135 said:Complete regeneration occurred in 2011 with a hydrogel... This is a fact... Dr Sun in testing also claimed complete regeneration in 2016 with another tunable hydrogel. He brought forward a paper for his disruption. This is a fact. (These are probative signed off documents...) Dr Sun is also a scientist/engineer with a burden. All scientists/engineers that state something burden themselves. When a scientist claims something, for the sake of progression, you should always keep him to the burden. This is a game of high stakes.
Dr Sun has 'not' been getting funding for his disruption. This is a fact. Why? we do not know... You presume and hint that his lack of investment is because his product is poor? As if a lack of investment means therefore highlights the product is a waste of time... You seem keen to influence people to absorb this belief? Whereas I and maybe others are very suspicious that the lack of funding, and the procrastinating, is because it is too disruptive to people who may have invested a lot of opposing money elsewhere.
People have invested money and turf in percentage improvements... The idea of 'complete regeneration' is absolutely disruptive to the idea of 'percentage improvements'... Just like a lorry was absolutely disruptive to the horse and cart... FS2 has never got complete regeneration only percentage improvements... Not one scientific paper claims complete regeneration with regards to FS2. As Golfpanther has stated, I also have no doubt FS2 will have a use somewhere but this promises nothing I want. I have also read someone some one state 40%-90% going on what the human eye can see... This is very soft science and not good enough for me and many people, I bet, who read the scarless healing thread... Regarding myself, the statement 40 to 90% annoys me and insults me. Just to give you the subjectivity concept, If your wife or partner wanted 40% blue paint for your child's wall I bet her shade of 40% would be different to what you would think 40% was with your eye... What is 40% improvement to you may be 90% to someone else's subjectivity. Percentage improvement as an idea, going by the human eye is sloppy.
Then you have the human bias thing with money. Example, what would someone who invested money in a percentage improvement product be incentivised to do? IMO there would be a clear incentivisation for the entity to protect its investment and to centrally control or gate keep what information people get. Without being arsey to you, and I guess you are probably not, but for the sake of asking the question, are you gatekeeping? You see, using probative documents, we can see scar free healing was achieved in 2011 and 2016. (I could show something as far back as 1996 but I'll leave that for now.), You ignore these probative documents and you go on about FS2 as if it is the state of the art and the year is 2004 again... And as if we should all give and absorb that this is a fact... Quite a few times you have also slipped something in and tried to get people to forget about the hydrogel too... (No one in there right mind, who is scarred, would forget about something that has shown complete regeneration in scientific papers) I guess though, this is just harmless message board enthusiasm.
Anyway, so you are suggesting getting all the board forgo looking at something that has shown scar free treatment in the past(ignore the probative documents), loose this pushy supply and demand expectancy we have, that has built up over time; and then look long sighted to the future, for something that brings pointless 'percentage improvements'?
You seem to be suggesting people look at the shiny object of future 'percentage improvement' advancements and pretend scar free healing has never been observed in the past??? And then buy this expensive FS2 injection/cream at a later date with induced amnesia? Are you suggesting people stop looking at historical dates which highlight scar free healing occurred? (scar free healing occurred 2011 and other dates) Are you suggesting we keep pretending the scar war is ongoing in a 'jam tomorrow, never today' fashion and we must keep propagating 'percentage improvements', and more percentage improvements?
fs2 is good for those who want to be satisfied with a percentage healing, but for those like me, who want a real scar free it is not the solution. I respect that people can love fs2, but they must also respect people like us who expect a real skin regeneration and not want to demoralize us, knowing that science shows that scar free is possible.the title of the section is scarless Healing and not healing in percentage. they must respect the section
3 hours ago, seabs135 said:Complete regeneration occurred in 2011 with a hydrogel... This is a fact... Dr Sun in testing also claimed complete regeneration in 2016 with another tunable hydrogel. He brought forward a paper for his disruption. This is a fact. (These are probative signed off documents...) Dr Sun is also a scientist/engineer with a burden. All scientists/engineers that state something burden themselves. When a scientist claims something, for the sake of progression, you should always keep him to the burden. This is a game of high stakes.
Dr Sun has 'not' been getting funding for his disruption. This is a fact. Why? we do not know... You presume and hint that his lack of investment is because his product is poor? As if a lack of investment means therefore highlights the product is a waste of time... You seem keen to influence people to absorb this belief? Whereas I and maybe others are very suspicious that the lack of funding, and the procrastinating, is because it is too disruptive to people who may have invested a lot of opposing money elsewhere.
People have invested money and turf in percentage improvements... The idea of 'complete regeneration' is absolutely disruptive to the idea of 'percentage improvements'... Just like a lorry was absolutely disruptive to the horse and cart... FS2 has never got complete regeneration only percentage improvements... Not one scientific paper claims complete regeneration with regards to FS2. As Golfpanther has stated, I also have no doubt FS2 will have a use somewhere but this promises nothing I want. I have also read someone some one state 40%-90% going on what the human eye can see... This is very soft science and not good enough for me and many people, I bet, who read the scarless healing thread... Regarding myself, the statement 40 to 90% annoys me and insults me. Just to give you the subjectivity concept, If your wife or partner wanted 40% blue paint for your child's wall I bet her shade of 40% would be different to what you would think 40% was with your eye... What is 40% improvement to you may be 90% to someone else's subjectivity. Percentage improvement as an idea, going by the human eye is sloppy.
Then you have the human bias thing with money. Example, what would someone who invested money in a percentage improvement product be incentivised to do? IMO there would be a clear incentivisation for the entity to protect its investment and to centrally control or gate keep what information people get. Without being arsey to you, and I guess you are probably not, but for the sake of asking the question, are you gatekeeping? You see, using probative documents, we can see scar free healing was achieved in 2011 and 2016. (I could show something as far back as 1996 but I'll leave that for now.), You ignore these probative documents and you go on about FS2 as if it is the state of the art and the year is 2004 again... And as if we should all give and absorb that this is a fact... Quite a few times you have also slipped something in and tried to get people to forget about the hydrogel too... (No one in there right mind, who is scarred, would forget about something that has shown complete regeneration in scientific papers) I guess though, this is just harmless message board enthusiasm.
Anyway, so you are suggesting getting all the board forgo looking at something that has shown scar free treatment in the past(ignore the probative documents), loose this pushy supply and demand expectancy we have, that has built up over time; and then look long sighted to the future, for something that brings pointless 'percentage improvements'?
You seem to be suggesting people look at the shiny object of future 'percentage improvement' advancements and pretend scar free healing has never been observed in the past??? And then buy this expensive FS2 injection/cream at a later date with induced amnesia? Are you suggesting people stop looking at historical dates which highlight scar free healing occurred? (scar free healing occurred 2011 and other dates) Are you suggesting we keep pretending the scar war is ongoing in a 'jam tomorrow, never today' fashion and we must keep propagating 'percentage improvements', and more percentage improvements?
There has been many claims that scarless healing has been achieved numerous times. I can think of Avotermin, Recell, Juvista and recently Polarity. When you make such bold statements, you need to back yourself up. Many researchers behind these projects tried to fool people.
If you can present us with those papers you claim you have from way back in 1996, 2011 and 2016, it would give a sense of hope for everyone. However, you make such statements without any concrete evidence of any sorts.
As for scars, everyone has them. Some have bigger more horrendous scars than others. Everyone will benefit from a scarless healing product. You said it yourself that Dr. Sun is taking an incredible amount of time to market this "miracle" product. As for FS2, they claim it stops scarring in new wounds andimproves existing scars.
I am not a poster boy of FS2 but they seem quite legit. As for those who believe they can achieve scarless healing in 2 years, I've got bad news for them. It's called being realistic and setting expectations.
FS2 is a start. In a few years, scars mightbe a thing of the past. But for now, if FS2truly works even if it is 50% improvement, I believe people should be quite enthusiastic. It can help people and for those who can't settle for that, then I believe they have other issues that scarless healing would never achieve anyways.
1 hour ago, golfpanther said:From all the research I've read in regards to wound healing and the prospects of regeneration, hair follicles seem to be hugely important. Specifically, the follicle bulb, which laser hair removal doesn't remove. The research indicates that it serves to recruit stem cells and other cell niches that promote regeneration over scarring. Of course, maybe someone could find a way to get around this, but hair follicles (and sweat glands) seem to provide the needed things for skin to be healthy and scar free.
FS2 may get there, but I'm skeptical because of their wording on their site. One second they say that it prevents scarring (note, this doesn't not mean complete regeneration to me) but then just a few items down they write "Radicallyimproveshealing outcomes for burn survivors." Those two things... don't really sync up for me.
Again, if improvements will make you happy, I think that's great! Go for FS2. It just doesn't seem to be what this board has come to be about.
Regenerating hair follicles is the most important part in scarless healing. The researchers at UCI with Dr. Cotsarelis found a way to do that back in 2017.However, the method used is probably awaiting a patent in order for them to continue. They were recently awarded 3.3 million US to continue their study. Hair follicles secrete a substance known as BMPs and in turn, these signal fibroblasts to turn into fat cells in a openhealing wound. Fibroblasts lay down collagen in an open wound quite hastily and when hair follicles are damaged, BMPs are not secreted to re-align all this collagen into the random pattern of healthy uninjured skin, so regeneration does not happen.
1 hour ago, MyBeautifulScars said:There has been many claims that scarless healing has been achieved numerous times. I can think of Avotermin, Recell, Juvista and recently Polarity. When you make such bold statements, you need to back yourself up. Many researchers behind these projects who tried to fool people.
If you can present us with those papers you claim you have from way back in 1996, 2011 and 2016, it would give a sense of hope for everyone. However, you make such statements without any concrete evidence of any sorts.
As for scars, everyone has them. Some have bigger more horrendous scars than others. Everyone will benefit from a scarless healing product. You said it yourself that Dr. Sun is taking an incredible amount of time to market this "miracle" product. As for FS2, they claim it stops scarring in new wounds andimproves existing scars.
I am not a poster boy of FS2 but they seem quite legit. As for those who believe they can achieve scarless healing in 2 years, I've got bad news for them. It's called being realistic and setting expectations.
FS2 is a start. In a few years, scars mightbe a thing of the past. But for now, if FS2truly works even if it is 50% improvement, I believe people should be quite enthusiastic. It can help people and for those who can't settle for that, then I believe they have other issues that scarless healing would never achieve anyways.
The thing is scientists/engineers can try to fool people all they want, as scientists they understand they live and die by the 'burden.' There was a famous case a few year back were a scientist did lie, and this brought tragic consequences, people lost their status as scientists. And sadly one scientist even took his life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimulus-triggered_acquisition_of_pluripotency
Btw you frame it that Avotermin, Juvista as once stating 'complete regeneration.' They never done anything of the sort. They caught the imagination with slick brochures but they never claimed complete regeneration. Renovo was a company that was built on people believing scar free healing was the future. The products that Renovo brought out were products that talked up things like 'percentage improvements' or things like 'scar improvement'. They had a massive time wasting pipeline. I can remember once reading that beyond the drugs they were trialling, they had something like 20+ 'percentage improvement' products in line. Imagine waiting for an entity to fulfil 20 percentage improvements. Therefor you can clearly deduce they had no intention of bringing out 'complete regeneration' in our life time. Their schtick was to make everyone believe in percentage improvements and get you to buy the percentage improvements going on their impressive sounding bombast. You can clearly deduce their whole operation depended on me and you and others thinking this is the future. Btw juvista 'was tested for 5% improvement using the human eye. It failed a phase two trial. And it failed its phase three trial. It was tested against sailine.
Recell has never claimed to bring regeneration to full thickness wounds.
You mention Polarity. These guys have been given a burden. They have shown slick brochures. They have also, over time changed what they mean by the term 'complete regeneration.' None the less they have a burden.
You are using a very broad brush and unfairly restricting Dr Sun who himself is burdened, and is not accountable for any mistakes or whatever was done by others with no connection to himself, if they happened to have made mistakes.
FS2 is a percentage improvement product. You are wasting your life away wanting wish fulfilment from percentage improvements.
21 minutes ago, seabs135 said:The thing is scientists/engineers can try to fool people all they want, as scientists they understand they live and die by the 'burden.' There was a famous case a few year back were a scientist did lie, and this brought tragic consequences, people lost their status as scientists. And sadly one scientist even took his life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimulus-triggered_acquisition_of_pluripotency
Btw you frame it that Avotermin, Juvista as once stating 'complete regeneration.' They never done anything of the sort. They caught the imagination with slick brochures but they never claimed complete regeneration. Renovo was a company that was built on people believing scar free healing was the future. The products that Renovo brought out were products that talked up things like 'percentage improvements' or things like 'scar improvement'. They had a massive time wasting pipeline. I can remember once reading that beyond the drugs they were trialling, they had something like 20+ 'percentage improvement' products in line. Imagine waiting for an entity to fulfil 20 percentage improvements. Therefor you can clearly deduce they had no intention of bringing out 'complete regeneration' in our life time. Their schtick was to make everyone believe in percentage improvements and get you to buy the percentage improvements going on their impressive sounding bombast. You can clearly deduce their whole operation depended on me and you and others thinking this is the future. Btw juvista 'was tested for 5% improvement using the human eye. It failed a phase two trial. And it failed its phase three trial. It was tested against sailine.
Recell has never claimed to bring full thickness wounds.
You mention Polarity. These guys have been given a burden. They have shown slick brochures. They have also, over time changed what they mean by the term 'complete regeneration.' None the less they have a burden.
You are using a very broad brush and unfairly restricting Dr Sun who himself is burdened, and is not accountable for any mistakes or whatever was done by others with no connection to himself, if they happened to have made mistakes.
FS2 is a percentage improvement product. You are wasting your life away wanting wish fulfilment from percentage improvements.
You just restate what I say in different wording. I would like to see those papers stating scarless healing in 1996, 2011 and 2016 by the way which I am asking from you for a second time.
You seem to acknowledge that scientists have made mistakes and have changed their wording numerous times about a particular product for scarring. It just reinforceswhat I have been claiming. All these scientists have one thing in mind, to make a lot of cash hoping to figure out a way to prevent scarring. Theburden if anything is to become wealthy entrepreneurs. When they make bold statements, they are accountable and liable. However, many of these statements are not true as you confirmed yourself.
I live my life with my acnescars and come here time to time to see what's the next big thing in scarless healing advancement. I would like for my acne scars to disappear one day but many of us just accept them and move on. This forum has been opened for 10 years, many of us have simply given up.
If you feel that looking for improvements is a waste of time, then you will live your whole life looking for perfection which is not realistic. Your whole life will pass you by before you know it.
30 minutes ago, MyBeautifulScars said:You just restate what I say in different wording. I would like to see those papers stating scarless healing in 1996, 2011 and 2016 by the way. You seem to acknowledge that scientists have made mistakes and have changed their wording numerous times about a particular product for scarring. It just reinforceswhat I have been claiming.
I live my life with my acnescars and come here time to time to see what's the next big thing in scarless healing advancement. I would like for my acne scars to disappear one day but many of us just accept them and move on. Claiming I'm wasting my life away doesn't bring anything to the conversation.
I have not restated or reinforced anything you have said in different wording. I said if say, Polarity have done something, then that has no bearing on Dr Sun, who has absolutely nothing to do with Polarity. Just like you have nothing to do with your a neighbours business. I also mentioned Polarity have changed what they mean by scar free healing as time went by, which is true. Polarityte tried to change the meaning of complete regeneration. However complete regeneration to everyone else, means perfect tissue.
You are literally wishing your life away waiting for a pipeline with percentage improvements to be fulfilled.
Btw, here are the papers:
The above paper, come out in 1997(when I said 1996 I meant 1997) and highlights small wounds to do scar in tissues that scar:
Cass DL, Sylvester KG, Yang EY, Crombleholme TM, Adzick NS. Myofibroblast persistence in fetal sheep wounds is associated with scar formation.J Pediatr Surg. 1997;32(7):1017-1021; discussion 1021-1022.
The next paper is the dextran hydrogel:
Dextran hydrogel scaffolds enhance angiogenic responses and promote complete skin regeneration during burn wound healing
The next paper is Dr Sun's 2017 paper, though Dr Sun has brought out a few papers that you can see on the sunogel website:
ProRegenerative Hydrogel Restores Scarless Skin during Cutaneous Wound Healing, September 2017 Advanced Healthcare Materials, Guoming Sun
On 12/20/2018 at 7:05 PM, Lapis lazuli said:Cool. Looking forward to it. The people from Birch biomed seem genuine to me. They seem to really have something that has a worthwhile effect.
One last question: Although FS2 can't do complete generation (regeneration of hair follicles), could it make scars complete lever with your skin?
6 minutes ago, Lip121212 said:One last question: Although FS2 can't do complete generation (regeneration of hair follicles), could it make scars complete lever with your skin?
Yes that's its intention. It's mostly targeted for hypertrophic or keloid scars. I have stated that before. These are the raised scars that result from over-expression of collagen from fibroblasts.
18 hours ago, seabs135 said:I have not restated or reinforced anything you have said in different wording. I said if say, Polarity have done something, then that has no bearing on Dr Sun, who has absolutely nothing to do with Polarity. Just like you have nothing to do with your a neighbours business. I also mentioned Polarity have changed what they mean by scar free healing as time went by, which is true. Polarityte tried to change the meaning of complete regeneration. However complete regeneration to everyone else, means perfect tissue.
You are literally wishing your life away waiting for a pipeline with percentage improvements to be fulfilled.
Btw, here are the papers:
The above paper, come out in 1997(when I said 1996 I meant 1997) and highlights small wounds to do scar in tissues that scar:
Cass DL, Sylvester KG, Yang EY, Crombleholme TM, Adzick NS. Myofibroblast persistence in fetal sheep wounds is associated with scar formation.J Pediatr Surg. 1997;32(7):1017-1021; discussion 1021-1022.
The next paper is the dextran hydrogel:
Dextran hydrogel scaffolds enhance angiogenic responses and promote complete skin regeneration during burn wound healing
The next paper is Dr Sun's 2017 paper, though Dr Sun has brought out a few papers that you can see on the sunogel website:
ProRegenerative Hydrogel Restores Scarless Skin during Cutaneous Wound Healing, September 2017 Advanced Healthcare Materials, Guoming Sun
I have read those papers in the past so you brought nothing new to the topic of scarless healing. Small wounds less than 2 mm do not scar anyways. Do you have a scar after getting blood taken with a needle? No.
The fact a wound 2mm heals without scar backs up what I said before. Its obviously small enough to recruit naibour healthy cells quickly. The hair bulb is important and Im not disputing what anyone is saying on this. All Im saying is we know X equals Y (hair bulb equals skin) but our bodies work by stimulus mechanisms and we dont know if FS2 equals Y yet. They havent said regeneration just stops scarring. So we still have no idea what that looks like.
7 minutes ago, Lip121212 said:i mean level like completely flat?
Mate seriously there is a pic if you type in google birchbiomed fs2 of what it does on animal model...