Acne.org Products
1 hour ago, MyBeautifulScars said:There has been many claims that scarless healing has been achieved numerous times. I can think of Avotermin, Recell, Juvista and recently Polarity. When you make such bold statements, you need to back yourself up. Many researchers behind these projects who tried to fool people.
If you can present us with those papers you claim you have from way back in 1996, 2011 and 2016, it would give a sense of hope for everyone. However, you make such statements without any concrete evidence of any sorts.
As for scars, everyone has them. Some have bigger more horrendous scars than others. Everyone will benefit from a scarless healing product. You said it yourself that Dr. Sun is taking an incredible amount of time to market this "miracle" product. As for FS2, they claim it stops scarring in new wounds andimproves existing scars.
I am not a poster boy of FS2 but they seem quite legit. As for those who believe they can achieve scarless healing in 2 years, I've got bad news for them. It's called being realistic and setting expectations.
FS2 is a start. In a few years, scars mightbe a thing of the past. But for now, if FS2truly works even if it is 50% improvement, I believe people should be quite enthusiastic. It can help people and for those who can't settle for that, then I believe they have other issues that scarless healing would never achieve anyways.
The thing is scientists/engineers can try to fool people all they want, as scientists they understand they live and die by the 'burden.' There was a famous case a few year back were a scientist did lie, and this brought tragic consequences, people lost their status as scientists. And sadly one scientist even took his life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimulus-triggered_acquisition_of_pluripotency
Btw you frame it that Avotermin, Juvista as once stating 'complete regeneration.' They never done anything of the sort. They caught the imagination with slick brochures but they never claimed complete regeneration. Renovo was a company that was built on people believing scar free healing was the future. The products that Renovo brought out were products that talked up things like 'percentage improvements' or things like 'scar improvement'. They had a massive time wasting pipeline. I can remember once reading that beyond the drugs they were trialling, they had something like 20+ 'percentage improvement' products in line. Imagine waiting for an entity to fulfil 20 percentage improvements. Therefor you can clearly deduce they had no intention of bringing out 'complete regeneration' in our life time. Their schtick was to make everyone believe in percentage improvements and get you to buy the percentage improvements going on their impressive sounding bombast. You can clearly deduce their whole operation depended on me and you and others thinking this is the future. Btw juvista 'was tested for 5% improvement using the human eye. It failed a phase two trial. And it failed its phase three trial. It was tested against sailine.
Recell has never claimed to bring regeneration to full thickness wounds.
You mention Polarity. These guys have been given a burden. They have shown slick brochures. They have also, over time changed what they mean by the term 'complete regeneration.' None the less they have a burden.
You are using a very broad brush and unfairly restricting Dr Sun who himself is burdened, and is not accountable for any mistakes or whatever was done by others with no connection to himself, if they happened to have made mistakes.
FS2 is a percentage improvement product. You are wasting your life away wanting wish fulfilment from percentage improvements.
21 minutes ago, seabs135 said:The thing is scientists/engineers can try to fool people all they want, as scientists they understand they live and die by the 'burden.' There was a famous case a few year back were a scientist did lie, and this brought tragic consequences, people lost their status as scientists. And sadly one scientist even took his life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimulus-triggered_acquisition_of_pluripotency
Btw you frame it that Avotermin, Juvista as once stating 'complete regeneration.' They never done anything of the sort. They caught the imagination with slick brochures but they never claimed complete regeneration. Renovo was a company that was built on people believing scar free healing was the future. The products that Renovo brought out were products that talked up things like 'percentage improvements' or things like 'scar improvement'. They had a massive time wasting pipeline. I can remember once reading that beyond the drugs they were trialling, they had something like 20+ 'percentage improvement' products in line. Imagine waiting for an entity to fulfil 20 percentage improvements. Therefor you can clearly deduce they had no intention of bringing out 'complete regeneration' in our life time. Their schtick was to make everyone believe in percentage improvements and get you to buy the percentage improvements going on their impressive sounding bombast. You can clearly deduce their whole operation depended on me and you and others thinking this is the future. Btw juvista 'was tested for 5% improvement using the human eye. It failed a phase two trial. And it failed its phase three trial. It was tested against sailine.
Recell has never claimed to bring full thickness wounds.
You mention Polarity. These guys have been given a burden. They have shown slick brochures. They have also, over time changed what they mean by the term 'complete regeneration.' None the less they have a burden.
You are using a very broad brush and unfairly restricting Dr Sun who himself is burdened, and is not accountable for any mistakes or whatever was done by others with no connection to himself, if they happened to have made mistakes.
FS2 is a percentage improvement product. You are wasting your life away wanting wish fulfilment from percentage improvements.
You just restate what I say in different wording. I would like to see those papers stating scarless healing in 1996, 2011 and 2016 by the way which I am asking from you for a second time.
You seem to acknowledge that scientists have made mistakes and have changed their wording numerous times about a particular product for scarring. It just reinforceswhat I have been claiming. All these scientists have one thing in mind, to make a lot of cash hoping to figure out a way to prevent scarring. Theburden if anything is to become wealthy entrepreneurs. When they make bold statements, they are accountable and liable. However, many of these statements are not true as you confirmed yourself.
I live my life with my acnescars and come here time to time to see what's the next big thing in scarless healing advancement. I would like for my acne scars to disappear one day but many of us just accept them and move on. This forum has been opened for 10 years, many of us have simply given up.
If you feel that looking for improvements is a waste of time, then you will live your whole life looking for perfection which is not realistic. Your whole life will pass you by before you know it.
30 minutes ago, MyBeautifulScars said:You just restate what I say in different wording. I would like to see those papers stating scarless healing in 1996, 2011 and 2016 by the way. You seem to acknowledge that scientists have made mistakes and have changed their wording numerous times about a particular product for scarring. It just reinforceswhat I have been claiming.
I live my life with my acnescars and come here time to time to see what's the next big thing in scarless healing advancement. I would like for my acne scars to disappear one day but many of us just accept them and move on. Claiming I'm wasting my life away doesn't bring anything to the conversation.
I have not restated or reinforced anything you have said in different wording. I said if say, Polarity have done something, then that has no bearing on Dr Sun, who has absolutely nothing to do with Polarity. Just like you have nothing to do with your a neighbours business. I also mentioned Polarity have changed what they mean by scar free healing as time went by, which is true. Polarityte tried to change the meaning of complete regeneration. However complete regeneration to everyone else, means perfect tissue.
You are literally wishing your life away waiting for a pipeline with percentage improvements to be fulfilled.
Btw, here are the papers:
The above paper, come out in 1997(when I said 1996 I meant 1997) and highlights small wounds to do scar in tissues that scar:
Cass DL, Sylvester KG, Yang EY, Crombleholme TM, Adzick NS. Myofibroblast persistence in fetal sheep wounds is associated with scar formation.J Pediatr Surg. 1997;32(7):1017-1021; discussion 1021-1022.
The next paper is the dextran hydrogel:
Dextran hydrogel scaffolds enhance angiogenic responses and promote complete skin regeneration during burn wound healing
The next paper is Dr Sun's 2017 paper, though Dr Sun has brought out a few papers that you can see on the sunogel website:
ProRegenerative Hydrogel Restores Scarless Skin during Cutaneous Wound Healing, September 2017 Advanced Healthcare Materials, Guoming Sun
6 minutes ago, Lip121212 said:One last question: Although FS2 can't do complete generation (regeneration of hair follicles), could it make scars complete lever with your skin?
Yes that's its intention. It's mostly targeted for hypertrophic or keloid scars. I have stated that before. These are the raised scars that result from over-expression of collagen from fibroblasts.
18 hours ago, seabs135 said:I have not restated or reinforced anything you have said in different wording. I said if say, Polarity have done something, then that has no bearing on Dr Sun, who has absolutely nothing to do with Polarity. Just like you have nothing to do with your a neighbours business. I also mentioned Polarity have changed what they mean by scar free healing as time went by, which is true. Polarityte tried to change the meaning of complete regeneration. However complete regeneration to everyone else, means perfect tissue.
You are literally wishing your life away waiting for a pipeline with percentage improvements to be fulfilled.
Btw, here are the papers:
The above paper, come out in 1997(when I said 1996 I meant 1997) and highlights small wounds to do scar in tissues that scar:
Cass DL, Sylvester KG, Yang EY, Crombleholme TM, Adzick NS. Myofibroblast persistence in fetal sheep wounds is associated with scar formation.J Pediatr Surg. 1997;32(7):1017-1021; discussion 1021-1022.
The next paper is the dextran hydrogel:
Dextran hydrogel scaffolds enhance angiogenic responses and promote complete skin regeneration during burn wound healing
The next paper is Dr Sun's 2017 paper, though Dr Sun has brought out a few papers that you can see on the sunogel website:
ProRegenerative Hydrogel Restores Scarless Skin during Cutaneous Wound Healing, September 2017 Advanced Healthcare Materials, Guoming Sun
I have read those papers in the past so you brought nothing new to the topic of scarless healing. Small wounds less than 2 mm do not scar anyways. Do you have a scar after getting blood taken with a needle? No.
The fact a wound 2mm heals without scar backs up what I said before. Its obviously small enough to recruit naibour healthy cells quickly. The hair bulb is important and Im not disputing what anyone is saying on this. All Im saying is we know X equals Y (hair bulb equals skin) but our bodies work by stimulus mechanisms and we dont know if FS2 equals Y yet. They havent said regeneration just stops scarring. So we still have no idea what that looks like.
7 minutes ago, Lip121212 said:i mean level like completely flat?
Mate seriously there is a pic if you type in google birchbiomed fs2 of what it does on animal model...
26 minutes ago, MyBeautifulScars said:I have read those papers in the past so you brought nothing new to the topic of scarless healing. Small wounds less than 2 mm do not scar anyways. Do you have a scar after getting blood taken with a needle? No.
I have deliberately brought nothing new to the conversation. You asked for some of my sources which show scar free healing and therefore end the argument that scar free healing is a problem of the future...
51 minutes ago, seabs135 said:I have deliberately brought nothing new to the conversation. You asked for some of my sources which show scar free healing and therefore end the argument that scar free healing is a problem of the future...
I am perplexed by your comment.I always said that scarless healing is possible however FS2 and OLX101 seem to be way ahead of all the other things that claim to be scarless currently.
Sunogel has been around for some time, there is no progress and maybe it's time we moved on. That's all I am saying. There has been many other things in the past that claimed to be scarless that failed and fooled us all. Then you claim these scientists have a burden but like I said they are accountable for what they say. Polarity is an example of a probable failure to come and the scientists behind it risk losing a lot more. So why lie?
You showed me papers of scarless healing but two involve Sunogel. They are not impartial. There are no other papers that back up your claim that scarless healing is possible way back from 1996. You corrected yourself and then said 1997. All I saw from Sunogel was a pic of a finger cut that healed which was under a cm. It healed without a scar after applying Sunogel.As I mentioned before, 2 mm wounds heal without scarring. What are we suppose to conclude from that?
The idea behind all this is that we don't know what FS2 will bring to the table. Let's wait for the results of the clinical trials before we start claiming that they are not scarless. They have taken a different approach from anyone else. They seem legit.
Scarless healing changes depending on perception as you mentioned before. Scarless healing and scar free healing are similar but mean different things. So if FS2 can attain 90% improvement and the scar is invisible to the human eye, why would that be an issue? After all, waiting for Sunogel for the last 2 years to start clinical trials has not brought us any closer to eliminating our scars.
Exactly. I cant see anyone turning up their nose even at 60% improvement because its better than what is now. Walk before running, we are not going to go from scar to regeneration over night...might be 20 years....god I hope not! I think Sunogel will be better than FS2. He claims scarless atleast. But as said, were looking at 2022 maybe?
3 hours ago, MyBeautifulScars said:I am perplexed by your comment.I always said that scarless healing is possible however FS2 and OLX101 seem to be way ahead of all the other things that claim to be scarless currently.
Sunogel has been around for some time, there is no progress and maybe it's time we moved on. That's all I am saying. There has been many other things in the past that claimed to be scarless that failed and fooled us all. Then you claim these scientists have a burden but like I said they are accountable for what they say. Polarity is an example of a probable failure to come and the scientists behind it risk losing a lot more. So why lie?
You showed me papers of scarless healing but two involve Sunogel. They are not impartial. There are no other papers that back up your claim that scarless healing is possible way back from 1996. You corrected yourself and then said 1997. All I saw from Sunogel was a pic of a finger cut that healed which was under a cm. It healed without a scar after applying Sunogel.As I mentioned before, 2 mm wounds heal without scarring. What are we suppose to conclude from that?
The idea behind all this is that we don't know what FS2 will bring to the table. Let's wait for the results of the clinical trials before we start claiming that they are not scarless. They have taken a different approach from anyone else. They seem legit.
Scarless healing changes depending on perception as you mentioned before. Scarless healing and scar free healing are similar but mean different things. So if FS2 can attain 90% improvement and the scar is invisible to the human eye, why would that be an issue? After all, waiting for Sunogel for the last 2 years to start clinical trials has not brought us any closer to eliminating our scars.
Scar free healing, or complete regeneration is the return of perfect tissue. I and others are only interested in scar free healing. The problem with percentage improvements is that 90% to you could be 10% to someone else and you cannot accurately measure what x% is. You also have the fact that peoples perceptions will change day by day. Example on one day someone may think the scar improvement is 10% then on day three they may think it is 70%, then on day 5 think it is 20%.
Sunogel has claimed complete regeneration in a paper... Moving on from Sunogel, as you want people to do, would be akin to creating or conditioning mass amnesia with regards to historical documents which show scar free healing... I also referenced you to sunogel papers that claimed complete regeneration. These papers are signed off, they are probative. The people who signed them off have burdened themselves. With regards to 2mm small wounds. Small wounds heal without scarring, I referenced you to the paper that scientifically proved it in 1997. You can conclude from that, that you can remove tissue, and the replacement tissue will not be scar. You can conclude from these references, scar free healing has been achieved.
We do know what FS2 brings to the table. We can deduce, FS2 will 'not' bring scar free healing to the table, it will bring percentage improvements. FS2 has never claimed to have brought scar free healing. They have not brought any paper out that shows they have brought scar free healing in anyway. The papers, the probative documents, do not show they have completely removed scarring... It is reasonable to state that it is a percentage improvement product.
33 minutes ago, seabs135 said:Scar free healing, or complete regeneration is the return of perfect tissue and is disruptive to percentage improvement, or scar improvement healing. I and others are only interested in scar free healing. The problem with percentage improvements is that 99% to you could be 10% to someone else and you cannot accurately measure what x% is.
Sunogel has claimed scar free heling in a paper... Moving on from Sunogel, as you want people to do, would be akin to creating or conditioning mass amnesia with regards to historical documents which show scar free healing.
I also referenced you to sunogel papers that claimed complete regeneration. These papers are signed off, they are probative. The people who signed them off have burdened themselves. With regards to 2mm small wounds. Small wounds heal without scarring, I referenced you to the paper that scientifically proved it in 1997. You can conclude from that, that you can remove tissue, and the replacement tissue will not be scar. You can conclude from these references, scar free healing is a fact, it has been done.
We do know what FS2 brings to the table. We can deduce, FS2 will 'not' bring scar free healing to the table, it will bring percentage improvements or scar improvement. FS2 has never claimed to have brought scar free healing. They have not brought any paper out that shows they have brought scar free healing in anyway. The papers, the probative documents, do not show they have completely removed scarring... We can see It is a percentage improvement product.
It seems we are on the same page however you are expecting something that will not happen anytime soon. Sunogel will take a long time before it launches, for now we got FS2, might be here in 5 years tops. I'll take the improvement for now and I believe most of us would then wait on Dr. Sun and his miracle product which may never launch. Hopefully, FS2 and OLX101 do not fail also.
17 minutes ago, MyBeautifulScars said:It seems we are on the same page however you are expecting something that will not happen anytime soon. Sunogel will take a long time before it launches, for now we got FS2, might be here in 5 years tops. I'll take the improvement for now and I believe most of us would then wait on Dr. Sun and his miracle product which may never launch.
We are partially on the same page. But Sunogel is a device. I once read medical devices take weeks to 4 years to come to market. Weeks for a class 1 device and 3 to 4 years for a class 3 device. It is a device that could also use a digestable material as a predicate, which would make an even faster track to market... There are plenty of digestable materials to predicate it with too. A predicate would mean the device would be classed as a class 2 device too. To boot it has also done it's animal testing. However for what ever reason, maybe they are walking on egg shells to not offend others, they have pencilled in the approved for market stage as 2021. FS2, as a percentage improvement product, I have no interest in it. However, you are clearly looking at many more years to market than a device, being that it is a drug and it has to go through 3 phases of trials.
52 minutes ago, seabs135 said:We are partially on the same page. But Sunogel is a device. I once read medical devices take weeks to 4 years to come to market. Weeks for a class 1 device and 3 to 4 years for a class 3 device. It is a device that could also use a digestable material as a predicate, which would make an even faster track to market... There are plenty of digestable materials to predicate it with too. A predicate would mean the device would be classed as a class 2 device too. To boot it has also done it's animal testing. However for what ever reason, maybe they are walking on egg shells to not offend others, they have pencilled in the approved for market stage as 2021. FS2, as a percentage improvement product, I have no interest in it. However, you are clearly looking at many more years to market than a device, being that it is a drug and it has to go through 3 phases of trials.
I wonder why people don't believe in scar free come to this section ? at least, if you didn't believe it's your business but don't discourage those who believe it especially with the current scientific evidence. 50 years ago who would have thought that people would have the possibility to call with a wireless cell phone... things happen sooner than we think.just because the media doesn't report it doesn't mean there's no good progress in scar free.
correct scarfree healing is necessary ..
scar reduction has already done on many mammals even in humans remember Insulin - Claire linge
even true scarfree healing has achieved in many mammals but is there anything that has achieved true complete scarfree healing in humans and its still hanging in trials or ignored ?
3 hours ago, slave of jesus said:I wonder why people don't believe in scar free come to this section ? at least, if you didn't believe it's your business but don't discourage those who believe it especially with the current scientific evidence. 50 years ago who would have thought that people would have the possibility to call with a wireless cell phone... things happen sooner than we think.just because the media doesn't report it doesn't mean there's no good progress in scar free.
It is strange. It is like they are either wanting reassurance (which imo is probable), or, they, nefariously, are interested in diverting information in a certain way to suit a long term bias... I know if I did not believe the facts I have seen about scar free healing being a fact, I would not come on this board determined to explain to the many, 'it is x years away' every day - it would be like watching paint dry, imo. Repeatedly telling people it is not coming would be like watching paint dry, it would drive me mad...
7 hours ago, seabs135 said:It is strange. It is like they are either wanting reassurance (which imo is probable), or, they, nefariously, are interested in diverting information in a certain way to suit a long term bias... I know if I did not believe the facts I have seen about scar free healing being a fact, I would not come on this board determined to explain to the many, 'it is x years away' every day - it would be like watching paint dry, imo. Repeatedly telling people it is not coming would be like watching paint dry, it would drive me mad...
People need to be realistic and not believe everything they hear. Nobody said that scars won't be dealt with in a few years time but for now, nothing exists that makes them completely go away. That is a fact.
Unfortunately, you are the one coming here claiming that a certain product acheives scarless healing. You are the one claiming that Dr. Sun is not moving thingsforward. So how is that re-assuring?
If you believeSunogel truly works, then that is your business. You don't have to force everyone to believe it truly does. It seems you are doing the same of what you accuse others of.
Scarless healing has been attained probably numerous times but they probably won't release a drug or product at this time as lasers are dominating the market. Dermatologists will lose a lot.You said that yourself. On the contrary, plastic surgeons will be ecstatic. Also, the definition of scarless healing changes on perception which is something you state numerous times.
Your arguments don't holdand you need to stop dissemanating false information about other posters. At the end, everyone just wants the scars to go away. Any method is good but when you have others moving ahead doing clinical trials and others making bold claims doing nothing for the last 2years, it's a little strange.
Don't forget, manyhave made false statements and failed miserably. FS2 and OLX101 may fail also which I believe are scar free which is what they claim. Nobody said that everything is set in stone. However, it is reassuring that some scientists are moving forward.
People were once raving about Polarity. Almost all are gone, never to be seen again.
5 hours ago, MyBeautifulScars said:People need to be realistic and not believe everything they hear. Nobody said that scars won't be dealt with in a few years time but for now, nothing exists that makes them completely go away. That is a fact.
Unfortunately, you are the one coming here claiming that a certain product acheives scarless healing. You are the one claiming that Dr. Sun is not moving thingsforward. So how is that re-assuring?
If you believeSunogel truly works, then that is your business. You don't have to force everyone to believe it truly does. It seems you are doing the same of what you accuse others of.
Scarless healing has been attained probably numerous times but they probably won't release a drug or product at this time as lasers are dominating the market. Dermatologists will lose a lot.You said that yourself. On the contrary, plastic surgeons will be ecstatic. Also, the definition of scarless healing changes on perception which is something you state numerous times.
Your arguments don't holdand you need to stop dissemanating false information about other posters. At the end, everyone just wants the scars to go away. Any method is good but when you have others moving ahead doing clinical trials and others making bold claims doing nothing for the last 2years, it's a little strange.
Don't forget, manyhave made false statements and failed miserably. FS2 and OLX101 may fail also which I believe are scar free which is what they claim. Nobody said that everything is set in stone. However, it is reassuring that some scientists are moving forward.
People were once raving about Polarity. Almost all are gone, never to be seen again.
I have not made any false statements anywhere.
My position is very simple and straight forward. Lets number my statements: and take a quick look:
1. 'Dr Sun, and John Hopkins have brought out papers that showed scar free healing.' He is a scientist with a burden. In no where have I twisted that information... 2. 'Scar free healing was proven in 1997, when it was shown small wounds do not scar, therefore it is not a future problem we can all day dream about.' In no where have a twisted that information. 3. 'FS2 is a percentage improvement/scar improvement drug. It does not bring scar free healing. No scientific paper has claimed complete regeneration. And as it is a drug it will have go through 3 phases of trials.' In no way have I twisted information anywhere.
You keep promoting this as if scar free healing is x years away. IMO, this shows you either want reassurance, or you persistently want to divert information long term for some bias. I know if I thought scar free healing was a future problem I would not be posting on this board every day telling people it is a future problem - I'd just be getting on with my life... Think about this last paragraph for one second.
2 hours ago, seabs135 said:I have not made any false statements anywhere.
My position is very simple and straight forward. Lets number my statements: and take a quick look:
1. 'Dr Sun, and John Hopkins have brought out papers that showed scar free healing.' He is a scientist with a burden. In no where have I twisted that information... 2. 'Scar free healing was proven in 1997, therefore it is not a future problem we can all day dream about.' In no where have a twisted that information. 3. 'FS2 is a percentage improvement/scar improvement drug. It does not bring scar free healing. No scientific paper has claimed complete regeneration. And as it is a drug it will have go through 3 phases of trials.' In no way have I twisted information anywhere.
You keep promoting this as if scar free healing is x years away. IMO, this shows you either want reassurance, or you persistently want to divert information long term for some bias. I know if I thought scar free healing was a future problem I would not be posting on this board every day telling people it is a future problem - I'd just be getting on with my life... Think about this last paragraph for one second.
What bias I'm a trying to promote and what re-assurance am I looking for? I don't understand. I'm criticizing Sunogel and Dr. Sun's procastanation. His inability to move things forward make me question many things.
If you are a poster boy of this product and you firmly believe it truly works, then that is your belief and you cannot change mine.
Needless to say, my opinions about something do not necessarily have to be accepted by everyone. However, it seems you want to impose your beliefs on others. Are you looking for re-assurance?
Anyways Elastagen seems to have developed something for acne scars and stretchmarks.
They were bought out by Allergan, the makers of Botox. Based on Elastagen's findings they also developed an injectable hydrogel which improves acne scarring in 21 out of 28 patients. See below:
1 hour ago, MyBeautifulScars said:What bias I'm a trying to promote and what re-assurance am I looking for? I don't understand. I'm criticizing Sunogel and Dr. Sun's procastanation. His inability to move things forward make me question many things.
If you are a poster boy of this product and you firmly believe it truly works, then that is your belief and you cannot change mine.
Needless to say, my opinions about something do not necessarily have to be accepted by everyone. However, it seems you want to impose your beliefs on others. Are you looking for re-assurance?
The ability to move things along is clearly not in Dr Suns control. Dr Sun has shown science that brings complete regeneration in the past with a paper... He has given himself a burden.
You are constantly promoting that scar free healing is a 'future problem' on an internet message board about 'scar free healing...' You are constantly trying to give an impression that this is hopeless. I know one thing here, if I thought this was 'hopeless', or this was a 'future problem,' I'd certainly not be wasting my time on the message board trying to get people to believe this is a 'future problem.' Personally, I'd rather watch paint dry. I'd move on for the next 10years...
1 hour ago, seabs135 said:The ability to move things along is clearly not in Dr Suns control. Dr Sun has shown science that brings complete regeneration in the past with a paper... He has given himself a burden.
You are constantly promoting that scar free healing is a 'future problem' on an internet message board about 'scar free healing...' You are constantly trying to give an impression that this is hopeless. I know one thing here, if I thought this was 'hopeless', or this was a 'future problem,' I'd certainly not be wasting my time on the message board trying to get people to believe this is a 'future problem.' Personally, I'd rather watch paint dry. I'd move on for the next 10years...
Nope, I never said it is a problem of the future. I just said we have to be realistic for now. FS2 promotes scar free healing according to its makers for new wounds and improvement of existing scars. It is in clinical trials unlike Sunogel. People behind FS2 might release a product in 2019, that's next year. You can see the second Youtube video posted this month where the company's representative suggests that. Sunogel is still searching for a partner.
We don't know what FS2can actuallydo just like we don't know what Sunogel will do. The hydrogel has yet to be tested on biggerwoundsso your affirmations of it being 100% scarless healing are pretentious. Two papers and apic of a small finger cutare not enough to state that it truly works.Sunogel doesn't work on existing scars at all. FS2 at least improves them. It prevents scars in new wounds, so it belongs on this forum just like all the other alternatives who claim to be as such.
Claiming Dr. Sun has a " burden", so this is the only reason why his hydrogel should work is completely outrageous.You cannot expect people to believe you when you makesuch statements. So just because a scientist has a burden when they say somethingwe should all conclude that their discovery is bulletproof. You don't make sense.
I'm a scientistmyselfand mistakes are part of life. How many times do recalls happen? How many scientists have done wrong and riskedit all. Again, I'll give you Polarity as an example. But again this goes back to what you said before. Not all scientists are impartial and jump on the cash when they see an opportunity. We are all humans after all and rotten apples are everywhere.
To achieve scar free healing with Sunogel you must excise the scar before applying it. Plastic surgeons are moving away from this practise and doctors rarely excise undiseasedskin nowadays for risk of infection.
Polarityused a similar approach. They were removing existing scars on patients while in clinical trials and applying SkinTE on top. The results that came out months later are not scarless. They always claimed they can regenerate skin with full appendages. Where are they now? Nobody talks about them anymoreand everyone who did is either gone or completely avoids the subject when they are questioned about it. You mentioned also Polarity had a burden. Well, they completely missed their chance or they just tried to scam people. I think the later is more plausible.
You must be involved with Sunogel because it seems I hit a sensitive spot everytime I mention it or try to criticize it. That's how I see things. I however am not involved with FS2. I'm impartial and realistic. Wether it works or not, I cannot say but Sunogel will definately get you a big fat 0% improvement on your current scar thats been around since you were a kid. Now,let that sink in for a moment.
Stop discrediting anything else that's not Sunogel. Also, you seem to have a big bias towards anything else that's not.
I also believe that everyone's interpretation of scarless healing is different which is also something you also agreed upon. So, anything that promotes scarless healing or improves the appearance of scars to make them invisible deserves to be discussed here.
And to end this pointless conversation, I hope you find what you are looking for one day. At the end, we all have been scarred to some degree to be here looking for alternatives.
3 hours ago, seabs135 said:The ability to move things along is clearly not in Dr Suns control. Dr Sun has shown science that brings complete regeneration in the past with a paper... He has given himself a burden.
You are constantly promoting that scar free healing is a 'future problem' on an internet message board about 'scar free healing...' You are constantly trying to give an impression that this is hopeless. I know one thing here, if I thought this was 'hopeless', or this was a 'future problem,' I'd certainly not be wasting my time on the message board trying to get people to believe this is a 'future problem.' Personally, I'd rather watch paint dry. I'd move on for the next 10years...
at the limit those who believe that scar free is in the distant future, that they come back here in 10 years, instead of hurting themselves for nothing to them and to others who have hope. they will be surprised that it could come much rather than expected
3 hours ago, MyBeautifulScars said:Nope, I never said it is a problem of the future. I just said we have to be realistic for now. FS2 promotes scar free healing according to its makers for new wounds and improvement of existing scars. It is in clinical trials unlike Sunogel. People behind FS2 might release a product in 2019, that's next year. You can see the second Youtube video posted this month where the company's representative suggests that. Sunogel is still searching for a partner.
We don't know what FS2can actuallydo just like we don't know what Sunogel will do. The hydrogel has yet to be tested on biggerwoundsso your affirmations of it being 100% scarless healing are pretentious. Two papers and apic of a small finger cutare not enough to state that it truly works.Sunogel doesn't work on existing scars at all. FS2 at least improves them. It prevents scars in new wounds, so it belongs on this forum just like all the other alternatives who claim to be as such.
Claiming Dr. Sun has a " burden", so this is the only reason why his hydrogel should work is completely outrageous.You cannot expect people to believe you when you makesuch statements. So just because a scientist has a burden when they say somethingwe should all conclude that their discovery is bulletproof. You don't make sense.
I'm a scientistmyselfand mistakes are part of life. How many times do recalls happen? How many scientists have done wrong and riskedit all. Again, I'll give you Polarity as an example. But again this goes back to what you said before. Not all scientists are impartial and jump on the cash when they see an opportunity. We are all humans after all and rotten apples are everywhere.
To achieve scar free healing with Sunogel you must excise the scar before applying it. Plastic surgeons are moving away from this practise and doctors rarely excise undiseasedskin nowadays for risk of infection.
Polarityused a similar approach. They were removing existing scars on patients while in clinical trials and applying SkinTE on top. The results that came out months later are not scarless. They always claimed they can regenerate skin with full appendages. Where are they now? Nobody talks about them anymoreand everyone who did is either gone or completely avoids the subject when they are questioned about it. You mentioned also Polarity had a burden. Well, they completely missed their chance or they just tried to scam people. I think the later is more plausible.
You must be involved with Sunogel because it seems I hit a sensitive spot everytime I mention it or try to criticize it. That's how I see things. I however am not involved with FS2. I'm impartial and realistic. Wether it works or not, I cannot say but Sunogel will definately get you a big fat 0% improvement on your current scar thats been around since you were a kid. Now,let that sink in for a moment.
Stop discrediting anything else that's not Sunogel. Also, you seem to have a big bias towards anything else that's not.
I also believe that everyone's interpretation of scarless healing is different which is also something you also agreed upon. So, anything that promotes scarless healing or improves the appearance of scars to make them invisible deserves to be discussed here.
And to end this pointless conversation, I hope you find what you are looking for one day. At the end, we all have been scarred to some degree to be here looking for alternatives.
FS2 does not bring scar free healing. There is no scientific document that show it brings scar free healing... No matter how many times you say it might, it really doesn't bring scar free healing in its papers. It has set its own standard. Without being rude to you, this argument with regards to FS2, is silly. I have not discredited FS2, I have, if you like, described what is written on the tin. Believe you and me, if the science stated 'complete regeneration,' or 'scarless healing,' or 'scar free healing,' I'd be stating this scientific paper claimed 'scar free healing.'
Sunogel claimed in a scientific paper,' it got 'complete regeneration.' Therefor it has set its own standard of scar free healing. Without being rude to you again, this argument is also silly.
Sunogel is a 'device.' Not a drug. Devices take months to get approved. Drugs, on the other hand take roughly 12 year for approval.
I'm not involved with anyone. I will proportionally criticise Sunogel, like anything else, if it fails with its scar free healing 'burden' it has given itself. In the mean time I will be referencing its burden.
The interpretation for 'scar free healing,' or 'complete regeneration' is, 'perfect tissue;' not 'nearly scar free healing,' but unambiguous complete tissue.
2 hours ago, seabs135 said:FS2 does not bring scar free healing. There is no scientific document that show it brings scar free healing... No matter how many times you say it might, it really doesn't bring scar free healing in its papers. It has set its own standard. Without being rude to you, this argument with regards to FS2, is silly. I have not discredited FS2, I have, if you like, described what is written on the tin. Believe you and me, if the science stated 'complete regeneration,' or 'scarless healing,' or 'scar free healing,' I'd be stating this scientific paper claimed 'scar free healing.'
Sunogel claimed in a scientific paper,' it got 'complete regeneration.' Therefor it has set its own standard of scar free healing. Without being rude to you again, this argument is also silly.
Sunogel is a 'device.' Not a drug. Devices take months to get approved. Drugs, on the other hand take roughly 12 year for approval.
I'm not involved with anyone. I will proportionally criticise Sunogel, like anything else, if it fails with its scar free healing 'burden' it has given itself. In the mean time I will be referencing its burden.
The interpretation for 'scar free healing,' or 'complete regeneration' is, 'perfect tissue;' not 'nearly scar free healing,' but unambiguous complete tissue.
Ok,let's see before we jump to conclusions then. We simply don't know what these drugs or devices can or cannot do. Only clinical trials can tell us that.
To the people saying that devices are approved quickly -- that's not always true. Medical devices encompass everything from bandages to IV tubes to implants. A bandage can be approved very quickly. Something like Sunogel will no doubt take several years of testing as it is very invasive, although it would no doubt be faster than a medicine.
I just wish that we were allowed to try out experimental medical treatments. We don't even have free healthcare from the government in America, so why do they have a right to tell us what we can and can't do. I mean think of all the animals that are killed every year in experimental testing. Why is it ok to kill a non consenting animal but its unethical to test on a consenting human? I think that scarless healing exists and can be reproducible in humans, however our slow medical process will take at least a decade. I saw a recent article about electric bandages that sped up wound healing four times as fast in rats and the pictures were very impressive, close to perfect regeneration I would say, but the creators of the study admitted that it wouldn't be worth it for them to pursue testing in humans and to try to get it FDA approved because of how long of a process it is.
Hi guys!
Ive been following this thread for some time and i have a question for you guys. How long until therewill be a product that can completly regenerate skin ? Will it happen within next 10 years?
Im asking couse I have giant scar on my back from surgery and laser didnt do shit even though i had 4 treatments with it