Acne.org Products
3 minutes ago, Anish004 said:i guess every person here have scarsmaybe severe or not but spreaded on diff parts of face .. and not isolated at one place so how can a scarless healing product for wounds will help us
i am positive about scarless healing thing as it will help prevent scarring but today while i was looking my face closely aside of big scars i have many many tiny small scars which dont look up in normal lighting. and its not possible to cut our face and apply it all over
yes we can do it for larger scars but for small scars all over face a scarless healing thing with lasers or anything else will be better and for larger ones excision and scarless healing product may work better
These tiny holes are your pores. Stop stressing too much. Some people have large pores and oily skin which makes them prone to acne. Large pores are not scars. You can get laser treatments, they can tighten up the pores and shrink them.
1 hour ago, MyBeautifulScars said:These tiny holes are your pores. Stop stressing too much. Some people have large pores and oily skin which makes them prone to acne. Large pores are not scars. You can get laser treatments, they can tighten up the pores and shrink them.
they are not pores i have large pored all over my face bt many of them stretched and widened up like scars ...
and yes i have oily skin and extra large pores but that dont bother me
49 minutes ago, Anish004 said:they are not pores i have large pored all over my face bt many of them stretched and widened up like scars ...
and yes i have oily skin and extra large pores but that dont bother me
Drugs like fs2 work on a molecular level Anish. In tablet form it will break down all scar tissue even internal scarring so stop stressing. Like accuntane doesnt discriminate from your face or your back nor does fs2 tablet. But you will need to wait maybe 4 or 5 years for that.
anyways topical fs2 you dont need to cut anything open.
FS2contains a molecule known as kyrunenine. It acts on fibroblasts to stop over collagen production. Researchers have high hopes that this can become a new anti-scarring treatment.
When human skin is injured, fibroblasts rush to the injury and start laying down new collagen, this is known as fibrosis and the same process occurs in other human organs. The new tissue or collagen is called granulation tissue which fills almost every wound.
New collagen is layed down fast, overexpressed and does not mimic what was there before. Skin follicles, fat cells, pores and melanin producing cells are seldom repaired. Normal collagen however is aligned in random directions or in a criss-cross manner. We call this thebasket weave pattern.
Overexpression of collagen creates two types of scars: hypertrophic or keloids. This is considered abnormal healing. Deep wounds will always form a hypertrophic scar which over time becomes a fine line scar for most individuals. Movement greatly influencesthe thickness of the scar. if the injuryis located close to a joint, scarring will be more prominent due to tension.
Many are not so lucky and their bodies will not try to flatten hypertrophic scars over time. Keloids tend to go beyond the original injury creating thick hard lumps of collagen on different parts of the body over time. They are considered benign tumours because fibroblasts go out of control.
In burns, you get contracture scars. In humans, wounds heal by contraction. Fibrosis creates yet again huge lumps of collagen which are stretched due to movement. Contracture scars limit movement especially if they cover large areas over joints. They also lack pores which help regulate body temperature in extreme heat.
Stretchmarks are also scars created once more by tears inside the dermis due to tension, the end result are strecthed wrinkly lines on the surface of the skin.
Small cuts, donot have too much fibroblasts, so collagen isre-aligned in a basket weave pattern. The fibroblasts die off, become fat cells or adipocyte cells. This is due to the fact that hair follicles are not damaged and secrete BMPs which turn fibroblasts into fat cells.The skin regenerates and looks similar as before.
In bigger wounds, fibroblasts linger behind overproducingcollagen, the scars remain. Fibroblasts eventually die off but the skin lacks hair follicles so they are no BMPs to signal the fibroblasts to realign all this collagen into normal healthy skin again.
Researchers however at UCI found a way to reprogram fibroblasts into fat cells. The secret is to regenerate hair follicles into open wounds first. They obviously will not tell us how they managed to do that. The new regenerated hair follicles will secrete BMPs again and scarless healing is achieved.
Therefore, I do not believe FS2 can do anything about atrophic scars which lack collagen. Sometimes fibroblasts do not produce enough collagen and the scar results in a sunken appearance or what we call an atrophic scar. Acne and chicken pox tend to leave behind these type of facial scars. Most of us have these type of scars anyways. FS2 will not help us. I also do not believe it does anything about missing hair follicles and pores.
Recell got approved in the US few months back. Looks like a game changer for burn victims.
5 hours ago, MyBeautifulScars said:FS2contains a molecule known as kyrunenine. It acts on fibroblasts to stop over collagen production. Researchers have high hopes that this can become a new anti-scarring treatment.
When human skin is injured, fibroblasts rush to the injury and start laying down new collagen, this is known as fibrosis and the same process occurs in other human organs. The new tissue or collagen is called granulation tissue which fills almost every wound.
New collagen is layed down fast, overexpressed and does not mimic what was there before. Skin follicles, fat cells, pores and melanin producing cells are seldom repaired. Normal collagen however is aligned in random directions or in a criss-cross manner. We call this thebasket weave pattern.
Overexpression of collagen creates two types of scars: hypertrophic or keloids. This is considered abnormal healing. Deep wounds will always form a hypertrophic scar which over time becomes a fine line scar for most individuals. Movement greatly influencesthe thickness of the scar. if the injuryis located close to a joint, scarring will be more prominent due to tension.
Many are not so lucky and their bodies will not try to flatten hypertrophic scars over time. Keloids tend to go beyond the original injury creating thick hard lumps of collagen on different parts of the body over time. They are considered benign tumours because fibroblasts go out of control.
In burns, you get contracture scars. In humans, wounds heal by contraction. Fibrosis creates yet again huge lumps of collagen which are stretched due to movement. Contracture scars limit movement especially if they cover large areas over joints. They also lack pores which help regulate body temperature in extreme heat.
Stretchmarks are also scars created once more by tears inside the dermis due to tension, the end result are strecthed wrinkly lines on the surface of the skin.
Small cuts, donot have too much fibroblasts, so collagen isre-aligned in a basket weave pattern. The fibroblasts die off, become fat cells or adipocyte cells. This is due to the fact that hair follicles are not damaged and secrete BMPs which turn fibroblasts into fat cells.The skin regenerates and looks similar as before.
In bigger wounds, fibroblasts linger behind overproducingcollagen, the scars remain. Fibroblasts eventually die off but the skin lacks hair follicles so they are no BMPs to signal the fibroblasts to realign all this collagen into normal healthy skin again.
Researchers however at UCI found a way to reprogram fibroblasts into fat cells. The secret is to regenerate hair follicles into open wounds first. They obviously will not tell us how they managed to do that. The new regenerated hair follicles will secrete BMPs again and scarless healing is achieved.
Therefore, I do not believe FS2 can do anything about atrophic scars which lack collagen. Sometimes fibroblasts do not produce enough collagen and the scar results in a sunken appearance or what we call an atrophic scar. Acne and chicken pox tend to leave behind these type of facial scars. Most of us have these type of scars anyways. FS2 will not help us. I also do not believe it does anything about missing hair follicles and pores.
No there is no mention of hair follicles and pores your right. I dont think FS2 is 100% perfect skin. Never did. But maybe normal looking scars eg even you cant really tell its there.
3 hours ago, nikki_gargin said:No there is no mention of hair follicles and pores your right. I dont think FS2 is 100% perfect skin. Never did. But maybe normal looking scars eg even you cant really tell its there.
I have a lot of scars all over my shoulders, upper arms, back,face and other areasthat would love to get rid of one day.They are all caused by stupid stubborn acne that wouldn't go away.
I still battle minor breakouts even 20 years later.Now, I am plagued by another ailment,folliculitis, which probably is a consequence of all those acne fighting products I used over the years. For most of my life, my skin is irritated, inflamed with cysts and blackheads covering even my legs. Nothing ever worked apart of Accutane which I finally took a try last year. For the first time, my skin is clear and healed up.
The way things are going, I believe a solution won't happen before another decade or more. My hopes are that FS2 can diminish or at leastfade most of my body scars. If they can enter the market by 2019, then I can at least buy the product over the counter and start usingit. Having clear skin scar free is quite liberating. The scars are white and raised with some pitts on my face.
Recell, TCA andskin resurfacing all seemed revolutionary ata time. They are costly and improvements are very minimal however. Inever did go for any of these treatmentsas I learned to accept my scars and moved on.
Let's just hope that Fzs2 is not another failure.
17 hours ago, Lip121212 said:I checked and the last post is from March, at least on sunogels page and they didnt have anything. Dr sun did say that they might be pairing up with a dermatology company to get it on the market faster
Oh, not Sunogel's, but Dr. Sun'spersonal page has a pic and a writeup of what they hope to achieve.
I was the one talking to Dr. Sun when he stated they might work with a derma company to create funding by bringing cosmetic products to the market. That was a bit ago so I'm not sure where that stands now.
2 hours ago, Lip121212 said:I know its not my place, but there has to be something we can do to speed up the process of sunogel. Dr. sun even stated that funding was the number one reason why it hasnt been moving as fast. Is there a go fund me page we could do? I know its a long shot but.
Dr. Sun's major obstacle is finding a reputable pharmaceutical company willing to work with him as a partner. Without this, his product is toast. No company would ever invest without any concrete results until he proves that his product truly works. So let's not start throwing money away on something that we don't even know about.
BirchBiomed started at UBC and they are already testing their product, FS2 on people. They have funding from the university,are approved by both Health Canada and the FDA to conduct trials.
I believe Dr. Sun should have stayed at Gemstone. They had funding from John Hopkins. For this reason, I believe its time to throw the towel on Sunogel. BirchBiomedwill probably launch a product before Sunogel ever does.
Sunogel will however conduct trials as of 2019 according to their website so they might have found a company willing to work with Dr. Sun. Yet again, we only have a pic of a small finger cut that healed nicelyafter applying Sunogel. Small cuts heal with barely any scarringanyways. Dr. Sun never showed us any results for bigger wounds.
I have high hopes for FS2. We also have UCI researchers who have found a way to convert fibroblasts into fat cells to achieve scarless healing. We also have Olx101. Scientists are working hard to find something for scars.
However, weneed to wait probably another few years until a product comes out that truly addresses scarring. Giving away money to Dr. Sun for a unproven anti-scarring treatment will not speed up things.
12 hours ago, Lip121212 said:It claims to prevent all new scarring, Im just saying I havent seen any photos that convince me that it does. That is not to say it wont be an extremely effective product, I just havent seen definitive proof that it prevents ALL new scarring. Only time will tell when the phase 2 results come out in June!
They may release photos at some point from the burns trials. We have to bare in mind that burns, deep 2nd and deeper destroys stem cells in the skin and due to size of injury it is very hard for body to recruit naibouring stem cells from undamaged skin. Itsnot applicable really to acne scars or surgery scars. For scarless healing you need the recruitment from naibour healthy cells toinfiltrate the wound bed and fs2 will help this by blocking the scar pathway. Quite amazing really.
FS2 is not scarless healing, scar free healing, complete regeneration or whatever other term you want to use to describe what this board is ostensibly about. Plenty of other boards on this site get into these types of treatments.
I mean no offense to anyone. If youre happy with % improvements then it may just be your ticket. But if you want complete regeneration with appendages it isnt going to be the answer. The researchers have set our expectations and it doesnt include those things.
Not sure why we should throw in the towel on Sunogel. And @MyBeautifulScarsDr. Sun was never with Gemstone. He worked at JHU with Dr. Gerecht and left (his residency was over) for Columbia before the company was even founded.
Ive communicated with Dr. Sun off and on for a year. The most recent update he gave was that theyd gotten some VC money and were working with a pharma company to bring cosmetics to market that would further fund their research. That was a mere few months ago so things have moved forward for him (when I first spoke to him he had nothing).
Again, no disrespect to anyone if FS2 seems like your answer. But its be great if this board could be utilized to discuss scarless healing as intended.
57 minutes ago, golfpanther said:FS2 is not scarless healing, scar free healing, complete regeneration or whatever other term you want to use to describe what this board is ostensibly about. Plenty of other boards on this site get into these types of treatments.
I mean no offense to anyone. If youre happy with % improvements then it may just be your ticket. But if you want complete regeneration with appendages it isnt going to be the answer. The researchers have set our expectations and it doesnt include those things.
Not sure why we should throw in the towel on Sunogel. And @MyBeautifulScarsDr. Sun was never with Gemstone. He worked at JHU with Dr. Gerecht and left (his residency was over) for Columbia before the company was even founded.
Ive communicated with Dr. Sun off and on for a year. The most recent update he gave was that theyd gotten some VC money and were working with a pharma company to bring cosmetics to market that would further fund their research. That was a mere few months ago so things have moved forward for him (when I first spoke to him he had nothing).
Again, no disrespect to anyone if FS2 seems like your answer. But its be great if this board could be utilized to discuss scarless healing as intended.
Complete regeneration won't happen for a while. We are just starting to do face and hand transplants. In a few years leg transplants for sure. There is still no effective cure for AIDS or cancer, just treatments that prevent or slow down the progression.I believe these topics are well ahead for researchers to solve than scarless healing for the moment. We need to be realistic.
FS2 maynot be scarlessbut if it improves scars, it is a start. Nothing out there can claim to do that presentlyand it prevents scarring in new wounds as per its makers, so we can say that they are a scarless healing product for now, for new wounds anyways. They are ahead of anyone else presently along with OLX101. They are doing clinical trials and are careful with their wording. They seem prettylegit unlike Polarity that you were once a supporter of. Whatever happened to them? They seem like another scam if anything to me.
I am aware that Dr. Sun developed a hydrogel while at John Hopkins. It failed at first and he continued. He founded Sunogel, another company with a hydrogel he claims truly works.
Gemstone however hasa lot of researchers from John Hopkins who came together. Manyworked with Dr. Sun before. Gemstone beganafter Dr. Sun left John Hopkins. They have funding and a lot more opportunities to grow. Dr. Sun is looking for a company in order to conduct trials. Do you believe a company would invest in a product that we don't knowtruly works?
It seems that this hydrogel everybody is talkingabout is well behind of the competition for the moment. If Dr. Sun is unable to pitch effectively his product in 2019, I believe it would be time to forget about Sunogel for a while.
FS2 seems to be the closest thing to achieving scarless healing for now. Let's see what this product can do before we jump to conclusions so fast.
I dont know why everyone is hung up on hair and sweat glands for acne scars. Laser hair removal removes hair. Skin stays perfect. Ive got a 15cm by 20cm donor site from a burn that is scarred but contains hair. I think 1 technique is hair transplant to stimulate your skin to regenerate? Shown in science yes. But that stimulates your dna to do that. Fs2 turns on that pathway for you with no stimulus. Thats the only difference. You might not need that hair with fs2...we dont know yet so it could be scarless in new wounds as stated.
3 hours ago, nikki_gargin said:I dont know why everyone is hung up on hair and sweat glands for acne scars. Laser hair removal removes hair. Skin stays perfect. Ive got a 15cm by 20cm donor site from a burn that is scarred but contains hair. I think 1 technique is hair transplant to stimulate your skin to regenerate? Shown in science yes. But that stimulates your dna to do that. Fs2 turns on that pathway for you with no stimulus. Thats the only difference. You might not need that hair with fs2...we dont know yet so it could be scarless in new wounds as stated.
to a scar to look like normal skin hair isnt imp but pores are imp in it as ur full face has pores and if the regenrated area dont have it ..it look like scar still
On 12/21/2018 at 12:07 AM, MyBeautifulScars said:Complete regeneration won't happen for a while. We are just starting to do face and hand transplants. In a few years leg transplants for sure. There is still no effective cure for AIDS or cancer, just treatments that prevent or slow down the progression.I believe these topics are well ahead for researchers to solve than scarless healing for the moment. We need to be realistic.
FS2 maynot be scarlessbut if it improves scars, it is a start. Nothing out there can claim to do that presentlyand it prevents scarring in new wounds as per its makers, so we can say that they are a scarless healing product for now, for new wounds anyways. They are ahead of anyone else presently along with OLX101. They are doing clinical trials and are careful with their wording. They seem prettylegit unlike Polarity that you were once a supporter of. Whatever happened to them? They seem like another scam if anything to me.
I am aware that Dr. Sun developed a hydrogel while at John Hopkins. It failed at first and he continued. He founded Sunogel, another company with a hydrogel he claims truly works.
Gemstone however hasa lot of researchers from John Hopkins who came together. Manyworked with Dr. Sun before. Gemstone beganafter Dr. Sun left John Hopkins. They have funding and a lot more opportunities to grow. Dr. Sun is looking for a company in order to conduct trials. Do you believe a company would invest in a product that we don't knowtruly works?
It seems that this hydrogel everybody is talkingabout is well behind of the competition for the moment. If Dr. Sun is unable to pitch effectively his product in 2019, I believe it would be time to forget about Sunogel for a while.
FS2 seems to be the closest thing to achieving scarless healing for now. Let's see what this product can do before we jump to conclusions so fast.
Complete regeneration occurred in 2011 with a hydrogel... This is a fact... Dr Sun in testing also claimed complete regeneration in 2016 with another tunable hydrogel. He brought forward a paper for his disruption. This is a fact. (These are probative signed off documents...) Dr Sun is also a scientist/engineer with a burden. All scientists/engineers that state something burden themselves. When a scientist claims something, for the sake of progression, you should always keep him to the burden. This is a game of high stakes.
Dr Sun has 'not' been given funding for his disruption. This is a fact. Why? we do not know... You presume and hint that his lack of investment is because his product is poor? As if a lack of investment means therefore highlights the product is a waste of time... You seem keen to influence people to absorb this belief? Whereas I and maybe others are very suspicious that the lack of funding, and the procrastinating, is because it is too disruptive to people who may have invested a lot of opposing money elsewhere.
People have invested money and turf in percentage improvements... The idea of 'complete regeneration' is absolutely disruptive to the idea of 'percentage improvements'... Just like a lorry was absolutely disruptive to the horse and cart... FS2 has never got complete regeneration only percentage improvements... Not one scientific paper claims complete regeneration with regards to FS2. As Golfpanther has stated, I also have no doubt FS2 will have a use somewhere but this promises nothing I want. I have also read someone some one state 40%-90% going on what the human eye can see... This is very soft science and not good enough for me and many people, I bet, who read the scarless healing thread... Regarding myself, the statement 40 to 90% annoys me and insults me. Just to give you the subjectivity concept, If your wife or partner wanted 40% blue paint for your child's wall I bet her shade of 40% would be different to what you would think 40% was with your eye... What is 40% improvement to you may be 90% to someone else's subjectivity. Percentage improvement as an idea, going by the human eye is sloppy.
Then you have the human bias thing with money. Example, what would someone who invested money in a percentage improvement product be incentivised to do? IMO there would be a clear incentivisation for the entity to protect its investment and to centrally control or gate keep what information people get. Without being arsey to you, and I guess you are probably not, but for the sake of asking the question, are you gatekeeping? You see, using probative documents, we can see scar free healing was achieved in 2011 and 2016. (I could show something as far back as 1996 but I'll leave that for now.), You ignore these probative documents and you go on about FS2 as if it is the state of the art and the year is 2004 again... And as if we should all give and absorb that this is a fact... Quite a few times you have also slipped something in and tried to get people to forget about the hydrogel too... (No one in there right mind, who is scarred, would forget about something that has shown complete regeneration in scientific papers) I guess though, this is just harmless message board enthusiasm.
Anyway, so you are suggesting getting all the board forgo looking at something that has shown scar free treatment in the past(ignore the probative documents), loose this pushy supply and demand expectancy we have, that has built up over time; and then look long sighted to the future, for something that brings pointless 'percentage improvements'?
You seem to be suggesting people look at the shiny object of future 'percentage improvement' advancements and pretend scar free healing has never been observed in the past??? And then buy this expensive FS2 injection/cream at a later date with induced amnesia? Are you suggesting people stop looking at historical dates which highlight scar free healing occurred? (scar free healing occurred 2011 and other dates) Are you suggesting we keep pretending the scar war is ongoing in a 'jam tomorrow, never today' fashion and we must keep propagating 'percentage improvements', and more percentage improvements?
21 hours ago, nikki_gargin said:I dont know why everyone is hung up on hair and sweat glands for acne scars. Laser hair removal removes hair. Skin stays perfect. Ive got a 15cm by 20cm donor site from a burn that is scarred but contains hair. I think 1 technique is hair transplant to stimulate your skin to regenerate? Shown in science yes. But that stimulates your dna to do that. Fs2 turns on that pathway for you with no stimulus. Thats the only difference. You might not need that hair with fs2...we dont know yet so it could be scarless in new wounds as stated.
From all the research I've read in regards to wound healing and the prospects of regeneration, hair follicles seem to be hugely important. Specifically, the follicle bulb, which laser hair removal doesn't remove. The research indicates that it serves to recruit stem cells and other cell niches that promote regeneration over scarring. Of course, maybe someone could find a way to get around this, but hair follicles (and sweat glands) seem to provide the needed things for skin to be healthy and scar free.
FS2 may get there, but I'm skeptical because of their wording on their site. One second they say that it prevents scarring (note, this doesn't not mean complete regeneration to me) but then just a few items down they write "Radicallyimproveshealing outcomes for burn survivors." Those two things... don't really sync up for me.
Again, if improvements will make you happy, I think that's great! Go for FS2. It just doesn't seem to be what this board has come to be about.
2 hours ago, seabs135 said:Complete regeneration occurred in 2011 with a hydrogel... This is a fact... Dr Sun in testing also claimed complete regeneration in 2016 with another tunable hydrogel. He brought forward a paper for his disruption. This is a fact. (These are probative signed off documents...) Dr Sun is also a scientist/engineer with a burden. All scientists/engineers that state something burden themselves. When a scientist claims something, for the sake of progression, you should always keep him to the burden. This is a game of high stakes.
Dr Sun has 'not' been getting funding for his disruption. This is a fact. Why? we do not know... You presume and hint that his lack of investment is because his product is poor? As if a lack of investment means therefore highlights the product is a waste of time... You seem keen to influence people to absorb this belief? Whereas I and maybe others are very suspicious that the lack of funding, and the procrastinating, is because it is too disruptive to people who may have invested a lot of opposing money elsewhere.
People have invested money and turf in percentage improvements... The idea of 'complete regeneration' is absolutely disruptive to the idea of 'percentage improvements'... Just like a lorry was absolutely disruptive to the horse and cart... FS2 has never got complete regeneration only percentage improvements... Not one scientific paper claims complete regeneration with regards to FS2. As Golfpanther has stated, I also have no doubt FS2 will have a use somewhere but this promises nothing I want. I have also read someone some one state 40%-90% going on what the human eye can see... This is very soft science and not good enough for me and many people, I bet, who read the scarless healing thread... Regarding myself, the statement 40 to 90% annoys me and insults me. Just to give you the subjectivity concept, If your wife or partner wanted 40% blue paint for your child's wall I bet her shade of 40% would be different to what you would think 40% was with your eye... What is 40% improvement to you may be 90% to someone else's subjectivity. Percentage improvement as an idea, going by the human eye is sloppy.
Then you have the human bias thing with money. Example, what would someone who invested money in a percentage improvement product be incentivised to do? IMO there would be a clear incentivisation for the entity to protect its investment and to centrally control or gate keep what information people get. Without being arsey to you, and I guess you are probably not, but for the sake of asking the question, are you gatekeeping? You see, using probative documents, we can see scar free healing was achieved in 2011 and 2016. (I could show something as far back as 1996 but I'll leave that for now.), You ignore these probative documents and you go on about FS2 as if it is the state of the art and the year is 2004 again... And as if we should all give and absorb that this is a fact... Quite a few times you have also slipped something in and tried to get people to forget about the hydrogel too... (No one in there right mind, who is scarred, would forget about something that has shown complete regeneration in scientific papers) I guess though, this is just harmless message board enthusiasm.
Anyway, so you are suggesting getting all the board forgo looking at something that has shown scar free treatment in the past(ignore the probative documents), loose this pushy supply and demand expectancy we have, that has built up over time; and then look long sighted to the future, for something that brings pointless 'percentage improvements'?
You seem to be suggesting people look at the shiny object of future 'percentage improvement' advancements and pretend scar free healing has never been observed in the past??? And then buy this expensive FS2 injection/cream at a later date with induced amnesia? Are you suggesting people stop looking at historical dates which highlight scar free healing occurred? (scar free healing occurred 2011 and other dates) Are you suggesting we keep pretending the scar war is ongoing in a 'jam tomorrow, never today' fashion and we must keep propagating 'percentage improvements', and more percentage improvements?
fs2 is good for those who want to be satisfied with a percentage healing, but for those like me, who want a real scar free it is not the solution. I respect that people can love fs2, but they must also respect people like us who expect a real skin regeneration and not want to demoralize us, knowing that science shows that scar free is possible.the title of the section is scarless Healing and not healing in percentage. they must respect the section
3 hours ago, seabs135 said:Complete regeneration occurred in 2011 with a hydrogel... This is a fact... Dr Sun in testing also claimed complete regeneration in 2016 with another tunable hydrogel. He brought forward a paper for his disruption. This is a fact. (These are probative signed off documents...) Dr Sun is also a scientist/engineer with a burden. All scientists/engineers that state something burden themselves. When a scientist claims something, for the sake of progression, you should always keep him to the burden. This is a game of high stakes.
Dr Sun has 'not' been getting funding for his disruption. This is a fact. Why? we do not know... You presume and hint that his lack of investment is because his product is poor? As if a lack of investment means therefore highlights the product is a waste of time... You seem keen to influence people to absorb this belief? Whereas I and maybe others are very suspicious that the lack of funding, and the procrastinating, is because it is too disruptive to people who may have invested a lot of opposing money elsewhere.
People have invested money and turf in percentage improvements... The idea of 'complete regeneration' is absolutely disruptive to the idea of 'percentage improvements'... Just like a lorry was absolutely disruptive to the horse and cart... FS2 has never got complete regeneration only percentage improvements... Not one scientific paper claims complete regeneration with regards to FS2. As Golfpanther has stated, I also have no doubt FS2 will have a use somewhere but this promises nothing I want. I have also read someone some one state 40%-90% going on what the human eye can see... This is very soft science and not good enough for me and many people, I bet, who read the scarless healing thread... Regarding myself, the statement 40 to 90% annoys me and insults me. Just to give you the subjectivity concept, If your wife or partner wanted 40% blue paint for your child's wall I bet her shade of 40% would be different to what you would think 40% was with your eye... What is 40% improvement to you may be 90% to someone else's subjectivity. Percentage improvement as an idea, going by the human eye is sloppy.
Then you have the human bias thing with money. Example, what would someone who invested money in a percentage improvement product be incentivised to do? IMO there would be a clear incentivisation for the entity to protect its investment and to centrally control or gate keep what information people get. Without being arsey to you, and I guess you are probably not, but for the sake of asking the question, are you gatekeeping? You see, using probative documents, we can see scar free healing was achieved in 2011 and 2016. (I could show something as far back as 1996 but I'll leave that for now.), You ignore these probative documents and you go on about FS2 as if it is the state of the art and the year is 2004 again... And as if we should all give and absorb that this is a fact... Quite a few times you have also slipped something in and tried to get people to forget about the hydrogel too... (No one in there right mind, who is scarred, would forget about something that has shown complete regeneration in scientific papers) I guess though, this is just harmless message board enthusiasm.
Anyway, so you are suggesting getting all the board forgo looking at something that has shown scar free treatment in the past(ignore the probative documents), loose this pushy supply and demand expectancy we have, that has built up over time; and then look long sighted to the future, for something that brings pointless 'percentage improvements'?
You seem to be suggesting people look at the shiny object of future 'percentage improvement' advancements and pretend scar free healing has never been observed in the past??? And then buy this expensive FS2 injection/cream at a later date with induced amnesia? Are you suggesting people stop looking at historical dates which highlight scar free healing occurred? (scar free healing occurred 2011 and other dates) Are you suggesting we keep pretending the scar war is ongoing in a 'jam tomorrow, never today' fashion and we must keep propagating 'percentage improvements', and more percentage improvements?
There has been many claims that scarless healing has been achieved numerous times. I can think of Avotermin, Recell, Juvista and recently Polarity. When you make such bold statements, you need to back yourself up. Many researchers behind these projects tried to fool people.
If you can present us with those papers you claim you have from way back in 1996, 2011 and 2016, it would give a sense of hope for everyone. However, you make such statements without any concrete evidence of any sorts.
As for scars, everyone has them. Some have bigger more horrendous scars than others. Everyone will benefit from a scarless healing product. You said it yourself that Dr. Sun is taking an incredible amount of time to market this "miracle" product. As for FS2, they claim it stops scarring in new wounds andimproves existing scars.
I am not a poster boy of FS2 but they seem quite legit. As for those who believe they can achieve scarless healing in 2 years, I've got bad news for them. It's called being realistic and setting expectations.
FS2 is a start. In a few years, scars mightbe a thing of the past. But for now, if FS2truly works even if it is 50% improvement, I believe people should be quite enthusiastic. It can help people and for those who can't settle for that, then I believe they have other issues that scarless healing would never achieve anyways.
1 hour ago, golfpanther said:From all the research I've read in regards to wound healing and the prospects of regeneration, hair follicles seem to be hugely important. Specifically, the follicle bulb, which laser hair removal doesn't remove. The research indicates that it serves to recruit stem cells and other cell niches that promote regeneration over scarring. Of course, maybe someone could find a way to get around this, but hair follicles (and sweat glands) seem to provide the needed things for skin to be healthy and scar free.
FS2 may get there, but I'm skeptical because of their wording on their site. One second they say that it prevents scarring (note, this doesn't not mean complete regeneration to me) but then just a few items down they write "Radicallyimproveshealing outcomes for burn survivors." Those two things... don't really sync up for me.
Again, if improvements will make you happy, I think that's great! Go for FS2. It just doesn't seem to be what this board has come to be about.
Regenerating hair follicles is the most important part in scarless healing. The researchers at UCI with Dr. Cotsarelis found a way to do that back in 2017.However, the method used is probably awaiting a patent in order for them to continue. They were recently awarded 3.3 million US to continue their study. Hair follicles secrete a substance known as BMPs and in turn, these signal fibroblasts to turn into fat cells in a openhealing wound. Fibroblasts lay down collagen in an open wound quite hastily and when hair follicles are damaged, BMPs are not secreted to re-align all this collagen into the random pattern of healthy uninjured skin, so regeneration does not happen.