Acne.org Products
52 minutes ago, Delto said:Lol. Why is everyone in this thread assuming that they have any inkling of how this product will be used? Everyone seems to have very unqualified and arbitrary opinions on whether this can be used for cosmetic purposes. What a pointless discussion.
It's not my opinion. It's the doctor's opinion. You are welcome to keep your hopes up in vain.
8 hours ago, Anish004 said:PolarityTe said on their website in a article that skinTe is being used for burns . wounds.skin grafts . scar revisions...so what they mean by scar revision...be hopeful guyz
in burns the word 'scar' can refer to a matured skin graft as well as an ungrafted burn scar. Its confusing as fuck.
Yeh scars are damage to the dermis and also the layer between the epidermis and dermis where new epidermal cells are made. The dermis doesnt renew like the epidermis does.
Stretch marks is a break in the dermis which heals with scar tissue but intact epidermis so with this as an example. Would a Dr treat this with skinte? Without breaking the 'do no harm' code of conduct...i dont see how it would be possible.
Sunogel looks amazing!!
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That finger tested with Sunogel looks perfect. But that looks like a superficial wound. Such a tiny wound might have disappeared on its own too. Wish at least they said how long it took for the wound to heal.
It shouldn't be hard to find bigger deeper wounds to try it on. I wonder what's holding them back if they have such a revolutionary gel at their hands.
11 hours ago, nikki_gargin said:in burns the word 'scar' can refer to a matured skin graft as well as an ungrafted burn scar. Its confusing as fuck.Yeh scars are damage to the dermis and also the layer between the epidermis and dermis where new epidermal cells are made. The dermis doesnt renew like the epidermis does.
Stretch marks is a break in the dermis which heals with scar tissue but intact epidermis so with this as an example. Would a Dr treat this with skinte? Without breaking the 'do no harm' code of conduct...i dont see how it would be possible.
Sunogel looks amazing!!
Actually you can take comfort in knowing that regardless of what type of scar revisions they're referring to, you can still achieve regeneration for acne or stretch marks alike if they can do it for burns. They need the dermis to regenerate. The real problem doesn't present itself until the Dermis is damaged which you know of course. It is also up to the providers and not PolarityTE to determine whether or not they will use SkinTE on a patient depending on their stand points. Dr. Swanson stated that it can be used on old scars and other scars not relating to skin grafts if the patient and provider decided they wanted to do so. Dermatologists specializing in skin would probably be up for it or a plastic surgeon.
For those that can't handle such an invasive procedure, they have derivative products in the works right now to address the broader scar market such as acne scars and pointed out specifically that they were working with hypertrophic scars back when I had my phone conversation with him. So yes doctors will treat stretch marks and any other purely cosmetic skin defects as long as you can obtain an improved cosmetic appearance because plastic surgery has been a thing for a long time. The Dermis actually contributes to Epidermal regeneration so if the Dermis can be regenerated then you are in a pretty good spot. What many aren't realizing is that PolarityTE can succeed in the burn market but fail in the broader scar market because more than half of it is purely cosmetic which would mean it would fail for the acne sufferers and pretty much everyone in here since this forum seeks out a purely cosmetic result.
16 minutes ago, Tano1 said:What many aren't realizing is that PolarityTE can succeed in the burn market but fail in the broader scar market because more than half of it is purely cosmetic which would mean it would fail for the acne sufferers and pretty much everyone in here since this forum seeks out a purely cosmetic result.
Can you elaborate on this? I'm not getting what line of thought led to this sentence, unless you mean if SkinTE fails in regenerating the dermis, or fails at marketing in the cosmetic market.
7 minutes ago, RickeyDog1989 said:27 minutes ago, Tano1 said:What many aren't realizing is that PolarityTE can succeed in the burn market but fail in the broader scar market because more than half of it is purely cosmetic which would mean it would fail for the acne sufferers and pretty much everyone in here since this forum seeks out a purely cosmetic result.Can you elaborate on this? I'm not getting what line of thought led to this sentence, unless you mean if SkinTE fails in regenerating the dermis, or fails at marketing in the cosmetic market.
Sure. It can still regenerate the dermis, but this more-so concerns the margins. The truth is that we don't know how visible the margins will be yet and that for anyone in the cosmetic department will be an issue. Burn victims don't just suffer psychologically, but their injuries can be physically impairing. This could easily be a success in the burn market if they restore not just the skin (excluding possible noticeable margins), but mainly its functionality because that is a big improvement over the current standard of treatment for burn victims. They said this was "nearly scarless healing" and Dr. Swanson did say it was a virtually seamless margin, but that pertained to the swine studies. So if a margin is noticeable enough, it won't be a satisfactory result for people with cosmetic defects. If the margin is indistinguishable from the skin (flush with its surroundings and repigmented to resemble the surrounding skin), then this will be a satisfactory cosmetic outcome for our acne sufferers and anyone else.
15 hours ago, Tano1 said:It can still regenerate the dermis, but this more-so concerns the margins. The truth is that we don't know how visible the margins will be yet and that for anyone in the cosmetic department will be an issue. So if a margin is noticeable enough, it won't be a satisfactory result for people with cosmetic defects. If the margin is indistinguishable from the skin (flush with its surroundings and repigmented to resemble the surrounding skin), then this will be a satisfactory cosmetic outcome for our acne sufferers and anyone else.
So, you expect the paste to turn into indistinguishable skin? I was told the scar can get bigger while the contraction can get reduced. Meaning, not only the margins but the excised area may not regenerate 100% skin without fibrosis.
For the people with severe body scars, RenovaCare may be the best solution.
Less invasive and probably will be available before SkinTE for treating acne scars
% of improvement seems like 80% or even more sometimes, so for body scars it's perfect...look at the pic in this link.....
https://renovacareinc.com/2018/02/renovacare-secures-patent-victory-continues-bolster-ip-portfolio/
3 hours ago, SimpleMutton said:For the people with severe body scars, RenovaCare may be the best solution.
Less invasive and probably will be available before SkinTE for treating acne scars% of improvement seems like 80% or even more sometimes, so for body scars it's perfect...look at the pic in this link.....
https://renovacareinc.com/2018/02/renovacare-secures-patent-victory-continues-bolster-ip-portfolio/
Interesting. Where is it available?
I really do not think
On 3/25/2018 at 11:05 AM, Tano1 said:Sure. It can still regenerate the dermis, but this more-so concerns the margins. The truth is that we don't know how visible the margins will be yet and that for anyone in the cosmetic department will be an issue. Burn victims don't just suffer psychologically, but their injuries can be physically impairing. This could easily be a success in the burn market if they restore not just the skin (excluding possible noticeable margins), but mainly its functionality because that is a big improvement over the current standard of treatment for burn victims. They said this was "nearly scarless healing" and Dr. Swanson did say it was a virtually seamless margin, but that pertained to the swine studies. So if a margin is noticeable enough, it won't be a satisfactory result for people with cosmetic defects. If the margin is indistinguishable from the skin (flush with its surroundings and repigmented to resemble the surrounding skin), then this will be a satisfactory cosmetic outcome for our acne sufferers and anyone else.
Since the margin according to Dr Swanson is virtually seamless, I believe it is good enough. Keep in mind, what we (Or most acne scar sufferers I believe) want is "normal looking" skin not perfect flawless skin. I have deep craters on my cheeks and lots of scars that makes my face looks terrible even from a distance. Even shitty camera phones can pick up holes in my skin what more the human eye. I cant hold a face to face conversation without worrying what people think of the holes on my face. The margin we see on the website is through microscopic lenses and even then it looks only slightly deeper than the natural creases on the native skin. Nobody is going to take a microscopic lens to peer on your face. With bare eyes, a person probably needs to be at point blank range and actively looking to even see anything and again nobody is going to care about a slight imperfection on your face at point blank range. To put in perspective, my father has a very slight indent on his cheek and I didn't even notice it for 20+ years until I saw it one day while trying to see if he has any scars on his face.
18 hours ago, surgical scar said:So, you expect the paste to turn into indistinguishable skin? I was told the scar can get bigger while the contraction can get reduced. Meaning, not only the margins but the excised area may not regenerate 100% skin without fibrosis.
I expect progress.
It's interesting that you were told the scar can get bigger. What source did you get that from? Because right now they're still in trials and they haven't released any information other than the early stage analysis of the boy's healing and the confirmation of significantly reduced contraction of SkinTE and the re-pigmentation of skin expanding. So I would ask your source for a source unless it happens to be from Polarity themselves or someone tied directly to them like an investor or a patient or doctor using it that may have access to additional information which I'm sure none of us do.
That assumption wouldn't make sense though.
The body's natural response upon injury will be to close the wound quickly to prevent infection. If you reduce scar contracture, then the fibroblasts are not being rushed to seal the wound, but instead can proliferate longer and allow time for the body to conduct the healing process more accordingly. When they are signaled to stay calm, then you avoid hypertrophy, keloids, excess collagen formation etc... so you can assume that there wouldn't be additional scarring and in fact it would reduce scar formation all together. Contraction is what their natural response is to repair quickly and is why your wound results in a scar in the first place. Studies on that on PubMed and NCBI as well.
The "paste" is still skin itself and it is a full-thickness biopsy which is perfect for gathering fibroblasts (there are several types of fibroblasts). They aren't just responsible for fibrosis, they have regenerative potential as well. It's their signaling that needs to be adjusted because they were programmed to fend off infection. That's why Wnt signaling pathways have become so prominent in tissue engineering and regeneration.
Don't take my word for it though. You can confirm everything I've said if you'd like with a little research if you have any doubts.
On 3/23/2018 at 6:00 PM, nikki_gargin said:Someone here spoke about sunogel? Ive looked into that and personally think it sounds like the best 'method' if it works for minimal complications and is one of safest bets.
Although i got really into the Polarity hype i dont think there is going to be many doctors willing to gut out someones skin to fill it back up with skinte. Plus you still need a donor site and the face is difficult in that the skin is different all over the face. You dont want leg on ya cheeks! For burns its different becauase you need a method to cover to prevent death and we dont know if any faces have been used?? (Please say if you know). Polarity also are mainly concerned with function.
With sunogel there are same great links people have put here with topical products in clinical trials. It sounds like the science is here but its now just a race to get it perfected.
For me, unless skinte is 95% perfect its not worth the risks.
On 3/23/2018 at 11:54 PM, surgical scar said:Forget 95%. Doctors using it dont promise any improvement for scars and no one will touch a scar with skinTE ona 10 feet pole. SkinTE will consider itself very lucky to get the skin graft reconstructive market, and wont bother with the liability of cosmetic market.
The magical different derivatives are all dreamy talk, and we dont have a sign its going to be developed anytime soon next year.
Our best bet is Sunogel. Start inquiring about Sunogel clinical trials instead. The problem is we dont know when theyre going to get serious about it. They need more motivation and investors perhaps.
I agree! Sunogel is our best bet!
I've been trying to get this board to focus on Sunogel for a while now.
If everyone here reached out to Dr. Sun and/or Sunogel we could make some progress. Even if just an e-mail, a Facebook message, like and follow Sunogel on social media. Show Dr. Sun that there are so many people invested in his product. It could make all the difference and really give him that push we need!
2 hours ago, CollegeKidd said:I agree! Sunogel is our best bet!
I've been trying to get this board to focus on Sunogel for a while now.If everyone here reached out to Dr. Sun and/or Sunogel we could make some progress. Even if just an e-mail, a Facebook message, like and follow Sunogel on social media. Show Dr. Sun that there are so many people invested in his product. It could make all the difference and really give him that push we need!
I've spoken to Dr. Sun, as you know from the private thread.
As of December last year, his issue is fundingas in, he doesn't have any to carry about the clinical trials he wants to conduct. While it's true the hydrogel is a device (and not a drug) and therefore not subject to the same stringent testing, Dr. Sun still wants a full clinical trial pipeline to prove efficacy and safety.
That's a huge hurdle for investors, especially considering he doesn't technically need to go this route. Reaching out to him and letting him know how much we're invested might motivate Dr. Sun to keep going, but it really all comes down to moneylots of it.
The other issue I brought up in the private thread is that Dr. Sun just doesn't sell his product very well. On our call, he was constantly qualifying his responses in a way that lowered expectations. Look, I don't want a spin doctor selling me magic potions, but if I'm an investor (and Dr. Sun had to believe I was) then I want the creator of the product tosellme on it.
The gist of our convo was that he doesn't think you can go "0-100" in terms of scar free healing/complete regeneration in humans like he achieved in pigs, but rather it will require a period of optimization in order to get there. This is no dissimilar to what PolarityTE told me on our call in terms of needing to optimize the product (SkinTE) for pigs after achieving complete regeneration in mice.
Time will tell if optimization will be needed for either products in humans, but given Dr. Sun's approach with clinical trials over marketization, I don't think Sunogel will hit the market until at least 3-5 years, funding permitting.
3 hours ago, CollegeKidd said:I agree! Sunogel is our best bet!
I've been trying to get this board to focus on Sunogel for a while now.If everyone here reached out to Dr. Sun and/or Sunogel we could make some progress. Even if just an e-mail, a Facebook message, like and follow Sunogel on social media. Show Dr. Sun that there are so many people invested in his product. It could make all the difference and really give him that push we need!
Sunogel answered me on their Facebook page and said they think it will work on acne scars.....now the key word is think.
Yeah, as much as it pains me to say, I don't have any faith that we will be getting Sunogel anytime in the near future. Which, if I allow myself to think about it enough, makes me absolutely furious, to be honest.
It appears to have tons of potential. But for some reason, not enough people give a damn, to be frank. I've been reading about Sun's hydrogels since 2011! It was supposed to be able to produce scar free healing all the way back then, it's now 2018 and it's still not even remotely close to being able to be used to help patients. If it truly works, then this clearly demonstrates a serious, gross issue in our society.
It is apparently a simple device, no biologics or medicine included, that could be approved very quickly if funded. There are literally ZERO potential side effects from making it available to use on wounds. Yet - despite its promise, it just sits there in stagnation while people suffer for no reason. Clearly, there is a monumental problem here.
Either - Funding and typical FDA and business bureaucracy is at play here, which is all too disugustingly common. This would just make me sick. The fact that this empty sh*t can stand between suffering patients and something that could really help them. Or - maybe it doesn't work as Sun says it does. Why wouldn't it get funding if it did? We see things like SkinTE move incredibly fast. Why couldn't Sun? Or - maybe Sun is not pushing hard enough. Which is another scenario that is very sad. If I had the power to help so many people with such a harmless device, I would do whatever I had to do to make it available. Gain approval in other countries?!? Make it available in other places around the world so people can travel there and receive it?!? Advertise, start conversation - IF this really can regenerate full thickness skin like he says it can, IT WOULD CHANGE THE WORLD and peoples lives. So step up and help people?!? How are you just going to sit on it for a decade. There has to be a better way. People are suffering.
Sorry for the rant. Again, as someone who has been excited about these 'amazing' hydrogels since 2011, seeing them mentioned here still with absolutely nothing to show for it is so incredibly maddening and stupid.
Somebody send Dr. Sun this thread once in a while so he'll have pity on us. How is that for a push?
What consequence will it have for him if he sells us samples with no claim or promise at our own risk? We've paid for tons of ineffective scar products and "treatments", one more useless than the other...
i messaged him
17 hours ago, jac3 said:Sorry for the rant. Again, as someone who has been excited about these 'amazing' hydrogels since 2011, seeing them mentioned here still with absolutely nothing to show for it is so incredibly maddening and stupid.
He has been optimizing the Hydrogel over the years. The previous ones still achieved full dermal regeneration, but they couldn't get full skin regeneration despite that. DexIEME showed superior regeneration in pre-clinical models and they also tested in pigs as well which regenerated skin fully with its appendages. The most amazing thing about that hydrogel though was that it also produced the basket weave pattern that our skin naturally has. This is a league beyond PolarityTE, but I agree that it won't be released soon and I don't think it's because people don't give a damn. It's because there isn't enough presentability in the product, but mainly because the funding isn't there.
He doesn't need to be shown the forum. Around 10-15 active posters on here and maybe another 10-15 constant lurkers isn't going to do shit to be honest. He's smarter than us and well aware how broad the market is for scarring because you go based off of statistics not forums and facebook. If people really wanted to help him, they would donate because it's funding that's keeping him from moving forward and that is actually a confirmed obstacle from golfpanther's interview with Dr. Sun himself which is why he keeps re-stating it on here, but it seems people aren't grasping that. Spreading the word elsewhere would be a start so I suggest going to other places and seeing if they are talking about Sunogel. If they aren't, then fill them in with good information and not some mediocre explanation.
On 3/27/2018 at 12:43 PM, Tano1 said:He has been optimizing the Hydrogel over the years. The previous ones still achieved full dermal regeneration, but they couldn't get full skin regeneration despite that. DexIEME showed superior regeneration in pre-clinical models and they also tested in pigs as well which regenerated skin fully with its appendages. The most amazing thing about that hydrogel though was that it also produced the basket weave pattern that our skin naturally has. This is a league beyond PolarityTE, but I agree that it won't be released soon and I don't think it's because people don't give a damn. It's because there isn't enough presentability in the product, but mainly because the funding isn't there.He doesn't need to be shown the forum. Around 10-15 active posters on here and maybe another 10-15 constant lurkers isn't going to do shit to be honest. He's smarter than us and well aware how broad the market is for scarring because you go based off of statistics not forums and facebook. If people really wanted to help him, they would donate because it's funding that's keeping him from moving forward and that is actually a confirmed obstacle from golfpanther's interview with Dr. Sun himself which is why he keeps re-stating it on here, but it seems people aren't grasping that. Spreading the word elsewhere would be a start so I suggest going to other places and seeing if they are talking about Sunogel. If they aren't, then fill them in with good information and not some mediocre explanation.
Thanks Tano1.
I sincerely hope Dr. Sun gets funding. I'd be willing to give money to the cause with others on this board, but like Tano1 said, that's the only way we can really help him. He grasps the enormity of his efforts and what it would mean to people. Funding is just hard to come by in a sphere so riddled with false starts and promises. Especially with trials before marketization.
On 24/03/2018 at 2:54 PM, surgical scar said:Forget 95%. Doctors using it dont promise any improvement for scars and no one will touch a scar with skinTE ona 10 feet pole. SkinTE will consider itself very lucky to get the skin graft reconstructive market, and wont bother with the liability of cosmetic market.
The magical different derivatives are all dreamy talk, and we dont have a sign its going to be developed anytime soon next year.
Our best bet is Sunogel. Start inquiring about Sunogel clinical trials instead. The problem is we dont know when theyre going to get serious about it. They need more motivation and investors perhaps.
But they already have touched scars with SkinTe and plan to do more in the near future. And nobody has heard of Doctors saying it doesnt work for scars, only you. Where are you getting your mis-information?
Im not saying it works like we hope because we just dont know yet but its impossible to write it off without any evidence to suggest its not going to be true regeneration to some degree as its said to be.
PolarityTe's entire business model is built on 'True Regenration' with more pipeline products to be rolled out in the future. If cutting a scar out entirely even just a small one and applying a paste that just heals back as scar again then Lough and Co may be begging for their old jobs back at John Hopkins, unless they can somehow optimize SkinTe.
As for Dr Sun Im not sure how he can have such an amazing revolutionary product and not be able to sell it to big hitting Investors. I understand not having the funds now but I dont understand why he cant sell it? Is Dr Sun incapable of putting a presentation together and setting up meetings with big investors like Frost? he got perfect skin from scars in swine models so how can any serious investor ignore that??. Give credit to Lough at least, hes a guy who can truly drive for change. Lough has already hit the market and PolarityTe have a 200,000 square foot center and are moving fast. Seems like Sun doesnt have the drive to become the next big thing. You're saying Lough has made it to market with a product offering true regeneration but it actually doesnt work where as Dr Sun has the real deal for true scarless healing but hes still sitting at his desk twiddling his thumbs? Has the world gone mad....
If Dr Sun cant sell it now then how will he ever. Is he a mute or something?