Acne.org Products
you dopes none of this stuff works yet. I mean seriously, the way you guys add links to these sites. You're looking at 20 to 30 years for any of this to be applicable. It's like buying a bunch of land in the north pole waiting for the world to get so populated it'll be worth something. You'll be waiting pretty long. Trust me I read all of this stuff you guys post very very clearly with a fine tooth comb and I see where there are errors and leaps in logic that would lead any of this to have clinical human applications. Literally decades my friends. Pursue something else or make peace with your scars. Thre's no fountain of youth. There's no HOly Grail.
THAT"S WHAT THIS SOLUTION WOULD BE. Dont you guys realize that if they could fully regnerate scarred skin they could regenerate any skin. It would be the fountain of youth. You think that exists? Not in this lifetime, or those of your children.
Okay I'm just gonna point one slight thing to you braniacs. How many people are actively visiting and contributing real information to this thread? Just the few of you pseudo-scientists right? Don't you think, by any common sense, if this was a real thriving technology there would be like several dozen scientists and researchers and business types actively following and contributing info here?
Right. So the fact that there isn't points to how this is all just very speculative and in the far off future right now. If humans ever are able to manipulate scar tissue and regenerate fresh viable skin that will be a massive breakthrough for the entire species. And I don't see it happening this century.
www.google.com/patents/US4219544
This patent was granted in 1980! Heat was used to extract the oil under temperature controlled conditions.
I want to find the cold process patent Vav Life uses. It protects the oil from being compromised and it removes the protein. The oil works. It's already here and it's cheap to make for ourselves. The only downside is self scar removal. I plan to do a test site as soon as I sort out a way to get the oil via the cold process way. All patients mentioned in that patent are claimed to have heal 100% scar free. 19 frigging 80 people.... Why is news about this oil so unknown?
The mice study used the 2-propanol/hexane solvent yolk oil extraction. The infant child used the vav life cold process yolk oil extraction (which is much safer as no solvent remains in or is used to extract the oil from the yolk) we need to find the patent for the cold extraction process. The solvent one is very expensive. Scar free healing is here. The egg oil works. But no one sells it as we need it. The cold process might be easy enough to do allowing us a way to Frankenstein/create some of this oil for ourselves. We need that patent. Vav life doesn't sell this oil yet I don't think. The hair version they do sell is not the same.
http://ircmj.com/?page=download&file_id=4411
Are you talking about Oleova egg yolk oil? Because it's readily available online, very expensive but it's there. However, the sales copy seems kinda sensationalistic, touting it as some kind of pancea, which is typically a red-flag, especially if there are limited studies showing its efficacy.
http://www.oleova.com/production.php
http://www.oleova.com/burns.php
As you can see, they make many impressive claims with only one proper scientifc paper (the Iranian one) to back them up, and that one didn't use Vav Life's oil, they made their own. So this is either yet another dead end or something potentially legitimate that has been flying under the radar this whole time, I'm leaning toward the former. But if you're really keen on testing this oil out you can buy it on Alibaba for $157 per KG, catch is there is a minimum order of 25 KG but they'll usually let you buy a single unit to sample first.
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/OLEOVA-Egg-Yolk-Oil_145589956.html
And if you get that far, how exactly are you supposed to use it? It's indicated for burns, not atrophic scarring, it may not work where there is collagen loss. So what this may be good for is resurfacing AFTER you've levelled out your scars by other means, you ablate the skin, apply this stuff and start praying it really works.
Why is news about this oil so unknown?
Because maybe its hot air. Considering this particular patent is 35 years old and nothing was seemingly done with it. If you had something effective that was truly this revolutionary you would sink all your resources into bringing it to market and raking in the billions. But that never happened.
Still, reading about all those cases (no sources cited grrrr) where patients healed with no scar tissue.....makes you wonder if this isn't one of those rare oversights where something potentially effective was never pursued for whatever budgetary/myopic reasons.
If a wound becomes covered with epithelial tissue within two weeks, minimal collagen will be deposited and no scar will form.[12] Generally, if a wound takes longer than three to four weeks to become covered, a scar will form.
Timing is important to wound healing. Critically, the timing of wound reepithelialization can decide the outcome of the healing.[12] If the epithelization of tissue over a denuded area is slow, a scar will form over many weeks, or months;[13][14] If the epithelization of a wounded area is fast, the healing will result in regeneration.[14]
By the way the two weeks is for burns only, if you have a deep or moderate cut in your skin, the doctor put you some stitches, the wound is closed in two days with scar tissue and after a week the doctor removes the stitches when the scar has some strength.
Do you really think the oil has scarfree properties, I do not know why people are researching and wasting time and money if the eggs oil might heal scarfree.
Well, there is that one Iranian rat study where burn wounds healed seemingly without any scarring.
In this study, yolk oil-treated burned animals showed abundant re-epithelialization without tissue scar in comparison with the SSD group. Although egg yolk contains many vital nutrients, the exact mechanism underlying the healing process is unknown.
Now, that is just ONE study involving BURN wounds in RATS. Would it work in humans? Perhaps, the 1980 patent posted above cites several cases where burn patients healed without any visible scarring:
In Case 1, a seven year old male human subject had a third degree burn on his face as the result of a kerosene explosion. Egg oil prepared according to the invention was applied five times per day for six weeks for a total of about three ounces. Thereafter, the skin returned to normal with no trace of permanent scar tissue.
Case 2 involved a ten month old boy who had third degree chest burns from a fire. After treatment of the area of the burn five times a day for four weeks with the egg oil prepared in Example 1 for a total application of about two ounces, the skin returned to normalcy without the development of scar tissue.
Case 3 involved a two year old male with a second degree burn of the shoulder and the side of the face from boiling water. Treatment with the oil prepared in Example 1 was carried out for four weeks with five applications over the burn area per day for a total of two ounces of egg yolk oil. Recovery from the burn was complete without scar formation.
In Case 4, a 28 year old woman sustained a second degree steam burn of the right forearm. After the application of one ounce of the egg yolk oil prepared in Example 1 over two weeks at a rate of four applications per day, the skin returned to normal with no trace of scar tissue.
However, there are no sources cited, so consider them as reliable as anecdotal evidence. And that patent cites a couple of others dated 1960, so we're going WAY back in time here. Why wasn't this pursued further? Perhaps the existence of this patent discouraged others from investing in research and development and the whole thing was quietly forgotten about? Hmmmmm.
We also musn't take the fact the patent was granted as necessarily something significant, the patent office is infamous for granting them for many a hare-brained scheme, this could be as simple as somebody hearing about egg oil's potential healing abilities and squatting on the rights to make $$$ at some later date, should the research pan out.
However, a related patent published in 2003 cites several more cases of egg oil succesfully yielding scarless healing:
SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION
In accordance with the present invention, it has now been discovered that wounds may be effectively treated with the growth factors that are contained in egg whites of hens. Specifically, topically administered growth factors in pharmacologically effective amounts are useful for increasing the local activity of the body's wound healing process. Accordingly, the present invention is a low cost, over-the-counter, composition containing growth factors isolated from a naturally occurring sourceegg whites. The composition may be used to treat any disease state where growth factors play a role including diabetic ulcers, nonhealing wounds, burns, osteomyelitis, trauma wounds, subcutaneous trauma and various forms of dermatitis.
EXAMPLE 1
In March 1998 a female patient who underwent laminectomy and fusion of T3 and T4 began applying the inventive composition to the surgical wound. This patient experienced no scaring from the surgical wounds and continued to be without scars 10 months post surgery. This patient had a previous history of radical surgery in May 1960 for removal of a right breast tumor. The wound from that surgery healed in approximately one month, but left a large scar. Eighteen months after the May 1960 surgery she had major abdominal surgery, and in 1985 had reconstructive of the right and left breast, but with both surgeries experienced significant scaring. Thus, with the recent surgery, the inventive composition prevented scaring.
EXAMPLE 5
A female applied the inventive composition in a cream form to a third degree burn on her left inner forearm. After daily application of the cream to the affected area, the blister reabsorbed readily, and the area healed within seven days with no residual scar tissue.
EXAMPLE 6
An 88-year-old patient sustained a fall resulting in several facial abrasions and a 1.5 inch laceration over the right eyebrow. With the use of the inventive cream to the affected area, these lacerations healed in about 72 hours leaving no scar tissue.
http://www.google.com/patents/US6541447
Crucially, this time there is a litany of peer-review sources cited at the end, I'm assuming the above cases are to be found among them, the list is too long to check.
So,it's all very interesting.....that said, egg oil for wound healing certainly isn't a novel concept, it was used as far back as antiquity, the Romans were known for it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_oil#Wounds
So, egg oil definitely seems to have potent healing properties, to what degree seems to depend on the nature of extraction and the subsequent yield and concentration of its actives. This is Vav Life's egg oil profile:
Properties:
Appearance
:
Yellow coloured, clear to hazy liquid
Consistency
:
Viscous liquid/Semi-solid
Odour
:
Mild characteristic odour of egg
Refractive Index
:
1.46 1.48
Specific Gravity @ 20oC
:
0.90 0.95
Colour (Gardner)
:
11 Max
Acid Value
:
< 3.0 (mg KOH/g)
Iodine Value
:
> 60
Fatty Acid composition:
Myristic Acid
:
0.5 2%
Myristoleic Acid
:
0.1 0.5%
Pentadecanoic Acid
:
0.1 0.2%
Palmitic Acid
:
34 - 37%
:
5 10%
Heptadecanoic Acid
:
0.1 0.5%
Stearic Acid
:
3 5%
Oleic Acid (OA):36 39%Linoleic Acid (LA) (n-6):10 12% - Linolenic Acid (ALA)
(n-3):0.1 0.2% - Linolenic Acid (GLA)
(n-6):0.1 0.2%Eicosanoic Acid:0.1 0.5%Eicosapentaenoic Acid (EPA)
(n-3):< 0.1%
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA)
(n-3)
:
0.5 1%
Is it possible that this particular blend (or some other) is JUST RIGHT for scarless healing? In theory, yes, wound healing is biochemistry after all, very complex biochemistry, mind you, but as such it can be manipulated and guided to a greater or lesser degree. There is a magical formula out there waiting to be discovered that will do everything we hope for, maybe Mother Nature has already found it?
I wouldn't get my hope up too high though, as I mentioned before this oil is primarily indicated for burns, not mature atrophic scars, it might help with healing a resurfacing wound while being ineffective for filling up pits. Fortunately, this can be achieved with subcision/CROSS/needling/filler or excision. So, you'd first do that, then deeply ablate the skin with laser/dermabrasion and then apply the oil multiple times a day, if the new skin healed without scar tissue as cited then you'd have something to get excited about.
So, definitely something worth looking at, if the above case studies are to be believed.
Found another research paper on egg oil, this one is manufactured in Germany and is sold under the brandname CHARISMON.
Summary:
Egg-oil (Charismon) is known for its beneficial action in wound healing and other skin irritancies and its antibacterial activity. The physiological basis for these actions has been investigated using cells in culture: HaCaT-cells (immortalized human keratinocytes), human endothelial cells in culture (HUVEC), peripheral blood mononuclear lymphocytes (PBML) and a full thickness human skin model (FTSM). Emphasis was on the influence of egg-oil on cell migration and IL-8 production in HaCaT cells, respiration, mitochondrial membrane potential, reactive oxygen (ROS) production and proliferation in HUVEC and HaCaT cells, cytokine and interleukin production in PBML and UV-light induced damage of FTSM. IL-8 production by HaCaT cells is stimulated by egg-oil whilst in phythemagglutinin-activated PBMLs production of the interleukins IL-2, IL-6, IL-10 and IFN-³ and TFN-± is reduced. ROS-production after H2O2 stimulation first is enhanced but later on reduced. Respiration becomes activated due to partial uncoupling of the mitochondrial respiratory chain and proliferation of HaCaT and HUVEC is reduced. Recovery of human epidermis cells in FTSM after UV-irradiation is strongly supported by egg-oil. These results support the view that egg-oil acts through reduction of inflammatory processes and ROS production. Both these processes are equally important in cellular agingas in healing of chronic wounds.
Egg-oil containing ointment improves burn wound healing as well as healing of ulcers with low scar formation only (3).
Interpretation of this broad spectrum of action is very difficult for two reasons, first egg-oil as a product of biological origin is not a single substance rather a mixture of a variety of fatty acids and retinoids. Strict scientific explanation of the mechanism of action may be impossible for a naturopathic drug of complex composition which is supposed to act only in concert of its constituents. Second, the processes which have been reported to be affected by this compound preparation themselves result from com plex interactions of a large number of processes and their regulation. Nevertheless an objective proof of action, not influenced by subjective feelings, is required to establish a preparation as a medical drug, or even of cosmetic value or a valuable food supplement.
One of the outstanding clinical achievements of egg-oil is its support in healing chronic wounds when applied as an ointment preparation (3)
There's a ton of more sciencey stuff explaining the way egg oil seems to aid the healing of chronic skin wounds.
http://actamedica.lfhk.cuni.cz/media/pdf/am_2014057020041.pdf
Some images:
Treatment with a Charismon® ointment of thermal injuries caused by hot oil - seven-year-old boy.
The smooth oil prevents the feeling of tension when the skin heals under eschar. After ten days the boy does not think of his accident any more.
Regeneration of the skin when checked after 4 weeks
http://www.charismon-schoenheit-und-gesundheit.de/en/examples/hot-oil.htm
Treatment with a Charismon® ointment of thermal injuries covering 4% of the body surface of a nine-month-old boy.
On the third day of treatment, the capillary bleeding shows the beginning of the re-epithelialisation. After 7 days it is almost finished. After 4 weeks the fingers show no scars. All joints are flexible, the skin is elastic and resistant to strain.
http://www.charismon-schoenheit-und-gesundheit.de/en/examples/thermal-injuries.htm
Found the first page of the US patent for CHARISMON, describes the production process if anybody is interested.
They're selling the stuff for $98/‚79 a pop (50 ml).
http://www.cremeduciel.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=1&Itemid=2
http://www.charismon-shop.de/index.php
Honestly though, that product feels a little too cosmeceutical for my liking, needs to be less flashy and more pharmaceutical.
-------------------------------------
OK, so I've also done a little more digging on Vav Life's egg oil, sold under the brandname OLEOVA. They don't actually claim it will result in scarless healing but that it will dramatically minimize scarring.
It is an excellent emollient and has the properties of a moisturizer because of which it is used in a variety of cosmetic preparations such as creams, ointments and lotions. It helps the texture, lubricating and anti-friction properties of these creams and lotions. It is also a penetration enhancer which makes it an important ingredient in sun-screen products. Egg oil acts as a compatible dermatological agent. With fine spreading, it reduces the scaling effect of many cosmetic formulations, thus helping to avoid heat congestion. Testing indicates that Egg Oil exhibits anti-inflammatory & anti-bacterial properties. Studies also indicate that Egg Oil may dramatically reduce scarring and reduce the appearance of aging scars.
Egg oil aids re-epithilisation and it was found that the wound closes earlier in burn patients treated with egg oil than those treated with silver sulfadiazine ointment, the later being commonly used. The biological effectiveness of egg oil was tested in patients with scars. Egg oil improved blood circulation in the scar tissue and also in the adjacent healthy tissue. It minimized the formation of scars.
http://www.beautymagonline.com/beauty-articles-4/1202-egg-yolk-oil-natures-magic-ingredient
So THIS particular blend of egg oil may not result in scarless healing but minimized scarring, which is still pretty damn good, if you keep working your scars and applying this stuff I imagine at a certain point the scarring might become so minimal it becomes undetectable to the average observer, especially if you've filled up the pits beforehand. You may just end up looking into the mirror and think "this is good enough, I'm finished!"
And you don't have to jump through hoops on Alibaba to get some either, you can contact them directly and they'll ship it to you:
Price for 1 liter by courier to Italy is US$ 240. If you wish to order, please send your delivery address, phone no. to vidya(at)vav(dot)in
-
You can order a 250 ml. bottle for US$ 150 including courier costs and pay by credit card over Paypal. If you wish to proceeed, please email your complete name, address and phone no. to arun(at)vav(dot)in so we can raise an invoice
Also found this on acne.org reviews:
A better alternative to acne management is the use a protein free egg lipids or oil fraction (Oleova). My daughter used this for two weeks and not only the acne but also the scars were completely gone with very smooth skin texture.
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/user/219971-prescott/?tab=acneorg_reviews
Probably weren't actual pits but rather PIH or tiny scarred pores. Still, impressive if true.
At this point I think its becoming evident that egg oil does seem to do something for damaged skin, it might not be the Holy Grail but even if can only dramatically minimize the appearance of scars that is still a very significant achievement, we're not likely to get complete, perfect regeneration anytime soon but then we don't really need to if others can't notice our scars anymore, there's not much difference between 95% and 100%, just make up the tiny difference with a primer or something and you're golden.
"Could be." Overly-optimistic in my humble opinion but then again if safety isn't going to be a concern AND it works well enough then it plausibly could be fast-tracked. Not going to hold my breath though.
But again we come back to how well does burn wound healing translate to atrophic scar removal? If scalpel/punch excisions could be performed reliably without scarring then you could cut out the well-defined scars and that would be that. But what about wide rolling scars, icepick clusters and large scarred-pore regions? You can't properly excise those, to remove all that damage in one go you'd first need to ablate the entire area of skin down to like 2mm, which to my knowledge has never been attempted. Dermabrasion goes no further than 350 microns (0.35mm) into the upper reticular dermis, anything more than that and nasty scarring will likely result. Fully ablative lasers can penetrate somewhat further but get nowhere near 2mm.
Of course, if you knew for absolutely certain that the hydrogel would prevent any such nasty scarring then you could hit the proverbial gas and ablate all the way down into the dermis, apply the gel and let the skin regenerate scar-free, it would be that simple.
Thing is, no plastic surgeon in their right mind is going to ablate your skin to that depth without that certainty and they're not going to accept "but it works with 3rd degree burns!" as an argument, there is some difference between healing burned but intact dermal tissue and regenerating a large area of deeply ablated (removed) skin. For all we know hydrogel may only work perfectly with burn, excision or similar wounds, it's not necessarily going to be a scarring panacea, real-life medicine doesn't typically work like that,
So what I'm saying here is that even if human trials are sucessful next year and the hydrogel is marketed to heal deep burns without scarring that doesn't then mean that the next day, week or month you'll have plastic surgeons using this stuff to treat acne scars, its going to take yet more time for them to figure out exactly how to use it safely and efficiently in these other applications, if at all. Thankfully, competiton will be our ally here because the first surgeon to figure out exactly how to do this stands to earn some serious money and even more acclaim, and nothing is going to attract paying customers like the ironclad guarantee of full, complete scar removal.
I expect they'll first start with non-facial regions and see how well the hydrogel performs before gradually testing facial skin, it shouldn't take too long but it will take some time to figure everything out, and thats IF hydrogel even works in humans to begin with.
Excision is one thing, it's relatively simple and neat, you cut out a hole and then you stitch it shut, there's not much of a wound to heal, recovery is quick.
Deep ablation removes and exposes entire layers of skin, the wound requires the regeneration of those layers in order to heal, which is a slower process and therefore more prone to complications.
As I said above, not all acne damage can be excised, sometimes ablation is the only way. But that's only if you want to remove the damage in one go, there's always subcision/needling/CROSS etc.
With spot treatment excision will usually suffice, no need for ablation.
Its when you need to ablate a larger area of poorly defined, widespread damage that this gets complicated because of the depths you need to get to to completely remove the scar tissue, like I said before no sane plastic surgeon is going to ablate that deep into the dermis without being absolutely certain that the hydrogel will regenerate everything perfectly, they'd get sued for malpractice otherwise.
I suppose one way of doing it would be to excise small sections of skin one by one but that would take ages on somebody with a full face of damage.
