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@Genuine123, me restating this here imo will probably unintentionally prejudice shit, it could look like there is a deceptive debate, when the facts we have cant be debated. Anyway here is why this is a no brainer, just to restate:
The background factual knowledge we have: We have the facts that equally treated scaffold behave the similar in all mammals = 1. We have the fact that digestible gels create cells and non-degradable ones dont create cells = 1. (1 + 1) / 2 = 100%. Next we have the foreground or primary facts that a porous and soft rapidly degradable sugar hydrogel which degraded in under 7 days got complete regeneration of a full thickness 3rd degree burn = 1. We have the fact that the hydrogel was compared to a state of the art control = 1 (btw this is rare on this thread that something can be observed against an objective state of the art control standard, no one has really noticed this aspect here.). We have the fact that the test is very easy, cheap and testable = 1. (1+ 1 + 1)/3 = 100%. I could go on the primary facts. But even if we multiply the background facts with the primary facts it is still a 100% no brainer. 1 * 1 = 100%. Note: I will state here that nothing is exactly 100%, but using this information this is as close to 100% as you can get in anything in life. in fact using the information we have, the probability for this not to work is ridiculously insignificant, it has a serious and ridiculously miniscule probability. The only thing that is currently debatable here is funding.
Smoked over? What do you mean?
@Lapis it can mean anything from the thread being spammed, the topic being ignored, faux debates, and so on, instead of trying to bring awareness of the facts. Most of the smoke/fog/noise blown over is accidental.
No one can doubt that seabs...also vegf enapsulated at hydrogel was critical...many noobs will come here saying it doesnt work...
just ignore them.i wish i had the knowledge /equipment to create something similar...
No noobs here in the main, just scarred people looking for information. There was no vegf added. They had a hypothisis that this, without anything added, could get neovascularization and regeneration. They got rapid digestion, rapid neovascularization, and complete regeneration.
no VEGF added? from the patent http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2012003370&recNum=1&maxRec=1&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=&queryString=AN%3Aus2011%2F042671+&tab=PCT+Biblio
[0089] In exemplary embodiments, the delivery of VEGF promotes tissue ingrowth and functional vascularization. In the examples that follow, five- week-long study first revealed significantly more tissue ingrowth, primarily by macrophages, into the VEGF-encapsulated hydrogel than into blank hydrogel. This result may suggest that VEGF attracts circulating cells into the hydrogel, thus promoting tissue penetration. Phelps et al. also found that matrices lacking VEGF showed less tissue invasion than VEGF-incorporating matrices (Phelps et al., Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A, vol. 107, no. 8, pp. 3323-8, 2010). The tissue ingrowth might further expedite scaffold biodegradation, which in return could facilitate further ingrowth. This result was further confirmed by a three-week-long multiple GF delivery study; without the VEGF encapsulation, in which neither the blank hydrogel nor the hydrogel loaded with SDF-1 and IGF showed any significant tissue ingrowth. Although Cohen et al. (Dvir et al., Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A vol. 106, no. 35, pp. 14990-5, 2009) demonstrated that a scaffold encapsulated with SDF-1 and IGF promoted prevascularization when implanted onto a rat omentum, these hydrogels revealed neither significant tissue ingrowth nor vascular structures with the encapsulation of SDF-1 and IGF. Overall, these results suggest that VEGF delivery is required to initiate sufficient tissue ingrowth, which eventually leads to functional vascular development within the hydrogel implants.
no VEGF added? from the patent http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2012003370&recNum=1&maxRec=1&office=&prevFilter=&sortOption=&queryString=AN%3Aus2011%2F042671+&tab=PCT+Biblio
[0089] In exemplary embodiments, the delivery of VEGF promotes tissue ingrowth and functional vascularization. In the examples that follow, five- week-long study first revealed significantly more tissue ingrowth, primarily by macrophages, into the VEGF-encapsulated hydrogel than into blank hydrogel. This result may suggest that VEGF attracts circulating cells into the hydrogel, thus promoting tissue penetration. Phelps et al. also found that matrices lacking VEGF showed less tissue invasion than VEGF-incorporating matrices (Phelps et al., Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A, vol. 107, no. 8, pp. 3323-8, 2010). The tissue ingrowth might further expedite scaffold biodegradation, which in return could facilitate further ingrowth. This result was further confirmed by a three-week-long multiple GF delivery study; without the VEGF encapsulation, in which neither the blank hydrogel nor the hydrogel loaded with SDF-1 and IGF showed any significant tissue ingrowth. Although Cohen et al. (Dvir et al., Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A vol. 106, no. 35, pp. 14990-5, 2009) demonstrated that a scaffold encapsulated with SDF-1 and IGF promoted prevascularization when implanted onto a rat omentum, these hydrogels revealed neither significant tissue ingrowth nor vascular structures with the encapsulation of SDF-1 and IGF. Overall, these results suggest that VEGF delivery is required to initiate sufficient tissue ingrowth, which eventually leads to functional vascular development within the hydrogel implants.
That is from a patent, and patents are full of claims and abstract claims, some tested, some theorised, the claims in a patent is all about trying to protect property.
The paper on the other hand has a 'factual basis,' It is not abstract. The paper observes something tested in method, using a control. And can be tested again. It states nothing was added. And it states it got rapid neovascularization and angiogenesis in 7 days. VEGF is 'theorised' to be involved in angiogenesis and neovascularization. VEGF and angiogenisis was stimulated by the digestion of the hydrogel, proven by the rapid neovascularization and the fact that the hydrogel had 714 blood vessels per mm squared and the control had 182 vessels per mm squared. The whole paper is about neovascularization and regeneration.
hey guys, i know i said i wouldn't post here till 2014 but I couldn't resist checking back to see if anyone had new info. predictably, no.
but i have a question on another issue pertaining to this technology. if let's say you get a really deep laser treatment on your skin or wherever, and slather the hyrdrogel on and then let the new tissue/skin grow back, will it look younger than your surrounding skin, or will it just grow back as the same wrinkly skin(sans sun damage of course) that you had before --i'm asking, because in the case that the new skin would be new and more youthful this hydrogel would have fantastic anti-aging applications. Is this possible or no?
hey guys, i know i said i wouldn't post here till 2014 but I couldn't resist checking back to see if anyone had new info. predictably, no.
but i have a question on another issue pertaining to this technology. if let's say you get a really deep laser treatment on your skin or wherever, and slather the hyrdrogel on and then let the new tissue/skin grow back, will it look younger than your surrounding skin, or will it just grow back as the same wrinkly skin(sans sun damage of course) that you had before --i'm asking, because in the case that the new skin would be new and more youthful this hydrogel would have fantastic anti-aging applications. Is this possible or no?
You already have something similar to that around - "recell".
hey guys, i know i said i wouldn't post here till 2014 but I couldn't resist checking back to see if anyone had new info. predictably, no.
but i have a question on another issue pertaining to this technology. if let's say you get a really deep laser treatment on your skin or wherever, and slather the hyrdrogel on and then let the new tissue/skin grow back, will it look younger than your surrounding skin, or will it just grow back as the same wrinkly skin(sans sun damage of course) that you had before --i'm asking, because in the case that the new skin would be new and more youthful this hydrogel would have fantastic anti-aging applications. Is this possible or no?
You already have something similar to that around - "recell".
No, the recell absolutely does not produce youthful skin of that nature...
Recell is a fairly underwhelming technology, it simply minimizes the damage done by the laser AND it also helps a bit with pigmentation...but it does not actually aid in REGENERATING new skin, this is why it is a failure in producing true skin regeneration.
The hydrogel, I'm assuming since it produces "scarless" healing actually regenerates tissue somehow. True?
I'm not an expert, but as far as I know the point is that the 1st and 2nd degree burns and superficial skin wounds always heal without scarring (and that happens all the time, without any medical intervention, without any hydrogel, that is due to rapid reepithelialization), so by using the 8020 dextran hydrogel even 3rd degree burns and deep wounds, full tickeness skin excisions could be healed without scarring just like 1st and 2nd degree burns and superficial skin wounds (due to accelerated reepithelialization), at least I hope that is the case.
I'm not an expert, but as far as I know the point is that the 1st and 2nd degree burns and superficial skin wounds always heal without scarring (and that happens all the time, without any medical intervention, without any hydrogel, that is due to rapid reepithelialization), so by using the 8020 dextran hydrogel even 3rd degree burns and deep wounds, full tickeness skin excisions could be healed without scarring just like 1st and 2nd degree burns and superficial skin wounds (due to accelerated reepithelialization), at least I hope that is the case.
Question: so I'm assuming CO2 lasers are not enough to burns deep enough to solve acne scars. At least I've never seen anyone whose deeper scars were fixed with lasers alone (or anything else for that matter). Is the hope then for bad acne scars or other scars that you could use a very strong laser that would induce a deep third degree burn and then slather hydrogel over it and it would all regenerate into new looking skin?
As far as I know the idea is to find a good plastic surgeon that would surgically remove your scars and then apply the 8020 hydrogel in resulting wounds, yes - it's a pretty invasive procedure, and then you get a completely regenerated skin wounds (as if those wounds were only small 1st or 2nd degree burns or superficial skin wounds that are not very deep).
As far as I know the idea is to find a good plastic surgeon that would surgically remove your scars and then apply the 8020 hydrogel in resulting wounds, yes - it's a pretty invasive procedure, and then you get a completely regenerated skin wounds (as if those wounds were only small 1st or 2nd degree burns or superficial skin wounds that are not very deep).
I have a question too, "As far as I know the idea is to find a good plastic surgeon that would surgically remove your scars and then apply the 8020 hydrogel in resulting wounds" - judging by your words that means the hydrogel treatment is available right now?
Hey i guys i was reading a study for scar free healing back to 2004...And it was claimming
''that Such putative human pharmaceutical agents have successfully completed phase 1 safety and
Hey i guys i was reading a study for scar free healing back to 2004...And it was claimming
''that Such putative human pharmaceutical agents have successfully completed phase 1 safety and
toleration studies under the auspices of a biotechnologycompany, Renovo Limited (see www.renovo.com)''So what happened to this ??
What happened is that that drug failed. It was widely reported. They say that that guy Ferguson is a bit of a weirdo too.
Hey i guys i was reading a study for scar free healing back to 2004...And it was claimming
''that Such putative human pharmaceutical agents have successfully completed phase 1 safety and
toleration studies under the auspices of a biotechnologycompany, Renovo Limited (see www.renovo.com)''So what happened to this ??What happened is that that drug failed. It was widely reported. They say that that guy Ferguson is a bit of a weirdo too.
thank you for the info..But are the claims on this study about TGFbeta 1.2.3 correct?.Also the incisional wound on the study healed perfectly.
thank you for the info..But are the claims on this study about TGFbeta 1.2.3 correct?.Also the incisional wound on the study healed perfectly.
Well, the drug failed. That says it all, I think.
I don't think drugs like the one Renovo was developing will eventually give people the option of scar free healing. If it will become available it will be something which uses a different approach.
The stuy though seems pretty interesting...Its like lowering TGF beta 1,2 and PDGF while adding exogenous TGF beta 3 at the time of wound's occurence
woudl lead to marked improved or absence of scar forming...It opens many experimental stuff.
But, the bad thing about this forum,is that less people are researching,
For example if you search hairloss communities you will see a number of forums researching and experimenting from the latest study about
PDG2 high levels in bald scalps.I mean these communities are experimenting in the mean time..
In contrast,most of people here are shouting ,reflecting their misery in a non at all productive way .
Anyway,I have started keeping a series of notes from the studies.
The stuy though seems pretty interesting...Its like lowering TGF beta 1,2 and PDGF while adding exogenous TGF beta 3 at the time of wound's occurence
woudl lead to marked improved or absence of scar forming...It opens many experimental stuff.
But, the bad thing about this forum,is that less people are researching,
For example if you search hairloss communities you will see a number of forums researching and experimenting from the latest study about
PDG2 high levels in bald scalps.I mean these communities are experimenting in the mean time..
In contrast,most of people here are shouting ,reflecting their misery in a non at all productive way .
Yeah... There are many different approaches which are being experimented with which is a good thing. I think it's safe to say that if scar free healing is possible, people will find it. The way to achieve it is being sought. By many. All we can do really is wait...and like what they did here with the Facebook page and the offer to help out with financing a bit when it comes to the promising hydrogel... That's all we can really do.
The shouting and "reflecting misery" isn't really helpful, I agree. Some people maybe post here just to vent which can be irritating to some but it's saddening to see people having so much trouble due to having scars at the same time, let's not forget that.
Hey i guys i was reading a study for scar free healing back to 2004...And it was claimming
''that Such putative human pharmaceutical agents have successfully completed phase 1 safety and
toleration studies under the auspices of a biotechnologycompany, Renovo Limited (see www.renovo.com)''So what happened to this ??What happened is that that drug failed. It was widely reported. They say that that guy Ferguson is a bit of a weirdo too.
thank you for the info..But are the claims on this study about TGFbeta 1.2.3 correct?.Also the incisional wound on the study healed perfectly.
Here you can read the best description of Renovo and Juvista (TGFb3), the whole thing was just a hoax, Ferguson (founder, CEO) and his wife have earned 16 million while their shareholders have lost everything: